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April 4th show - Hopkins, Randle & Jacobs

  • Thread starter Thread starter Paul Kimball
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I totally get you and agree, I still don't get why all this is so totally 'blown out of proportions' if it could have been handled more delicately and/or quiet.

This women is obviously head strong and she was not going to allow Jacobs to brush this underneath the carpet. Doesn't mean she was right in doing what she has done since, but I think she has exposed something here, that was painfully obvious for years to lot of people. That hypnosis is not a valid tool for retrieving memories and the people who do this work for the most part are unqualified to do so.
 
I am surprised a Univeristy allows him to work under their auspices.

It's called tenure. I suspect Dr. Jacobs has it, which makes it pretty hard to get rid of him.

Frankly, Temple University should be embarassed by Jacobs. I suspect they are, but figure it's better to just let it all pass, as he's close to retirement.
 
Frankly, at this point I think people will need to 'agree to disagree' on the effectiveness of hypnosis as a tool when administered by a trained professional (e.g., John Mack or John Carpenter). It appears that hypnosis is generally employed only when there are other irregular events in the life of the subject -- physical evidence, strange events consciously recalled, and third party corroborating evidence -- and generally is not the sole grounds for the conclusion that someone is an abductee. John Mack would point to the 'same complex narrative' offered across cases, while many academics would thoroughly discredit hypnosis period.

It also sounds as if everyone would agree that Dr. Jacobs shouldn't be conducting hypnosis over the telephone and certainly shouldn't suggest to patients that they have multi-personality disorder, no matter how threatened he may have believed himself to be. As Paul points out, Dr. Jacobs will probably retire in the next year or two, so any type of 'John Mack' type of inquiry very well may last longer than Dr. Jacobs' remaining tenure at Temple. Ms. Woods can decide whether she will file a civil lawsuit in Pennsylvania, where Dr. Jacobs' personal assets are probably concentrated, although frankly I doubt she will given the relative merits of the case weighed against the costs and reputational risks.

On a lighter note, I just came across this video of a song that George Knapp always includes in his bumper music when he does a C2C show on UFOs. Quite ironically, the lead singer, "Miss Connie", is originally from New Zealand and witnessed a UFO, which is evidently the inspiration for the song.


 
Frankly, at this point I think people will need to 'agree to disagree' on the effectiveness of hypnosis as a tool when administered by a trained professional (e.g., John Mack or John Carpenter). It appears that hypnosis is generally employed only when there are other irregular events in the life of the subject -- physical evidence, strange events consciously recalled, and third party corroborating evidence -- and generally is not the sole grounds for the conclusion that someone is an abductee. John Mack would point to the 'same complex narrative' offered across cases, while many academics would thoroughly discredit hypnosis period.

It also sounds as if everyone would agree that Dr. Jacobs shouldn't be conducting hypnosis over the telephone and certainly shouldn't suggest to patients that they have multi-personality disorder, no matter how threatened he may have believed himself to be. As Paul points out, Dr. Jacobs will probably retire in the next year or two, so any type of 'John Mack' type of inquiry very well may last longer than Dr. Jacobs' remaining tenure at Temple. Ms. Woods can decide whether she will file a civil lawsuit in Pennsylvania, where Dr. Jacobs' personal assets are probably concentrated, although frankly I doubt she will given the relative merits of the case weighed against the costs and reputational risks.

On a lighter note, I just came across this video of a song that George Knapp always includes in his bumper music when he does a C2C show on UFOs. Quite ironically, the lead singer, "Miss Connie", is originally from New Zealand and witnessed a UFO, which is evidently the inspiration for the song.



I just want to point out that the disagreement over the effectiveness of hypnosis is basically between 2 groups:

1. Professional psychiatry and psychology, i.e., academics who have studied hypnosis for years and treat people professionally, condemn the use of hypnosis for abduction memory retrieval.
2. Self-proclaimed "abduction researchers" like Budd Hopkins and David Jacobs who ignore the professional viewpoint and use hypnosis anyway to create a lurid narrative that is later sold in bookstores from coast to coast. Oh, yes! They also appear as guests on Coast to Coast! Then there are the people who are part of the entire alien abduction "subculture" who take their experiences literally and subscribe to the Hopkins-Jacobs narrative.

I would think most rational objective bystanders would (if asked to express an opinion) would side with group 1. Tom, I agree we must agree to disagree. I just wanted to point out that in my opinion the two groups are NOT equal. One is composed of professionals who know a lot about hypnosis, while the other group is made up of history professors and artists and their "flock".

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:02 PM ----------

Tom from Hong Kong, Thank you for the video! I really enjoyed it. However, my mind kept flashing back to the family gathering I attended recently on Easter at my parent's house in Florida. Like the video, the members of my family are all very strange. To keep myself from screaming, I kept volunteering to go out to a distant strip mall for more ice!:eek:

---------- Post added at 08:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 PM -------
 
I just want to point out that the disagreement over the effectiveness of hypnosis is basically between 2 groups:

1. Professional psychiatry and psychology, i.e., academics who have studied hypnosis for years and treat people professionally, condemn the use of hypnosis for abduction memory retrieval.
2. Self-proclaimed "abduction researchers" like Budd Hopkins and David Jacobs who ignore the professional viewpoint and use hypnosis anyway to create a lurid narrative that is later sold in bookstores from coast to coast. Oh, yes! They also appear as guests on Coast to Coast! Then there are the people who are part of the entire alien abduction "subculture" who take their experiences literally and subscribe to the Hopkins-Jacobs narrative.

I would think most rational objective bystanders would (if asked to express an opinion) would side with group 1. Tom, I agree we must agree to disagree. I just wanted to point out that in my opinion the two groups are NOT equal. One is composed of professionals who know a lot about hypnosis, while the other group is made up of history professors and artists and their "flock".

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:02 PM ----------


IndigoEyes, I agree with your rough breakdown. However, I would add that John Mack squarely falls into your category 1 while in category 2 there are numerous properly trained, seasoned practitioners of hypnosis who tend not to be as academically oriented (e.g., John Carpenter). As such, the categorization may not be quite as clear cut.

If it is true that many of these alleged abductees tell the 'same complex narrative' while under hypnosis, apart from the particular hypnotist performing the procedure, then I am inclined not to entirely dismiss hypnosis but rather view it as one of several sources of evidence. While some of the adherents to the Hopkins or Jacobs schools may constitute a 'flock', I don't think all of them are mindless in their approach -- some in fact are quite intelligent and critical in their thought patterns. I'd like to put myself in this category. This position on the matter may be a function of my individual background and current mindset: while I studied biochemistry as an undergraduate (a category 1 pursuit) my current profession requires more 'street smarts' and is more anecdotal in nature (a category 2 pursuit).

Glad you enjoyed the video. The band is called Sneaky Sound System and is based in Sydney.
 
IndigoEyes, I agree with your rough breakdown. However, I would add that John Mack squarely falls into your category 1 while in category 2 there are numerous properly trained, seasoned practitioners of hypnosis who tend not to be as academically oriented (e.g., John Carpenter). As such, the categorization may not be quite as clear cut.

If it is true that many of these alleged abductees tell the 'same complex narrative' while under hypnosis, apart from the particular hypnotist performing the procedure, then I am inclined not to entirely dismiss hypnosis but rather view it as one of several sources of evidence. While some of the adherents to the Hopkins or Jacobs schools may constitute a 'flock', I don't think all of them are mindless in their approach -- some in fact are quite intelligent and critical in their thought patterns. I'd like to put myself in this category. This position on the matter may be a function of my individual background and current mindset: while I studied biochemistry as an undergraduate (a category 1 pursuit) my current profession requires more 'street smarts' and is more anecdotal in nature (a category 2 pursuit).

Glad you enjoyed the video. The band is called Sneaky Sound System and is based in Sydney.

Tom, one thing to bear in mind is, Who says that all the abduction narratives are pretty much the same? Answer: the same amateur abduction researchers who are claiming that hypnosis is a valid tool! In truth, I do not believe this assertion. For one thing, I just reread Jacques Vallee's trilogy. Just yesterday I read him saying that alien encounters are often wildly different. His assertion is that "certain researchers" discount as confabulation anything that comes out that differs from the preferred dogma. For example, Vallee noted that people report wildly different looking aliens. Either you believe that the skies are simply infested with a myriad of different species all just crazy about humans, or you begin to question the literal reality. Vallee gave examples of giant cyclops being reported in Russia, little furry knomes (not smoking pipes, unfortunately, like the classic English Garden statue), beautific 7 to 10 foot tall angelic beings descending from space ships, wizards in black cloaks, black dogs with glowing red eyes, and various other encounters that you will NEVER find in a book penned by Budd Hopkins or David Jacobs.

Bear in mind that people self-select themselves to go to these 2 guys and others in the field. Everyone with any brains at all knows what each researcher is looking for and always finds! If you want to be abducted by Green Peace Advocates who want us to nurture the earth and save the whales, you would go to John Mack (RIP). If you are a New Age William Henry type who believes in channeling and the power of mass consciousness to ascend into light beings in 2012, you would go see Leo Sprinkle. If you want your abduction file sold to Bob Bigelow, you go to John Carpenter (Ouch! Oops! Well, that was a huge scandal a few years ago...). Obviously, if you think aliens are evil and bent on genetic stealing, you go to buddy boy and hybrid hunting Dave. It is like selecting a religion that seems to fit you best. For example, Glenn Beck choose to be a Mormon. :eek:

Another thing: Whitley Strieber, the great grandfather of abductions, put together a book called the COMMUNION LETTERS many years ago. I've read it several times. There is very little consistency in the reports. The book is comprised of actual letters to Whitley Strieber about abduction experiences. As noted above, at times the aliens are big and monstrous, at other times small and demure. At times they are cold and cruel, in other reports they are chatty and offer the abductee tea and crumpets. People were given predictions that never came true (dark or hopeful). Aliens used technology in the 70's that now seems rather quaint in comparison to what we have available. What's with that? Are the aliens just about 20 years ahead of us in technology? (as a comical reference - check out the original 1960's Star Trek some time. This is supposed to be taking place in the distant future but seems antiquated by our standards. The computers make "adding machine" sounds, for example).

We cannot take anything people like Budd Hopkins and David Jacobs says as "fact". My mind just flashed on some circular logic I received as a child. When I asked in Sunday School if the Bible was true, I was told "YES!" When I asked how my teacher knew, she replied "The Bible says so!" Uh...there's something wrong with this logic.

Did you know that a random test was done recently of Americans? I do not recall who financed this, if it was Bob Bigelow or some other ufo oriented group. But they asked the so-called average American to describe an alien abduction experience. Everyone responded with the classic tale of being floated or assisted into a disk, being placed on a table, being examined, having grey beings with huge eyes staring at them and talking to them telephathically.

The point of the study was to show how extremely ubiqitous the alien-scenario has become in modern culture. Just about everyone knows what an alien abduction is supposed to be like, thanks to decades of indoctrination in pop culture. So, anyone going to an abduction researcher can easily parrot the archetypal story.

Ironically, the great grandfather of abductions, Whitley Strieber, will be the first to tell you that his abduction and subsequent alien experiences are nothing like the Hopkins/Jacob's dogma, and that the experience is much more metaphysical and outrageously strange than what either of those 2 gentlemen could possibly conceive of from their linear "bogeymen from space" theme.

Consequently, you cannot really define the reality of the abduction scenario based on what the 2 main abductee researchers using a bogus tool claim are happening. Perhaps I am an extremist, but I agree with Jeff Ritzman. It is time we THROW OUT any testimony based on regressive hypnosis. Throw it out totally and start again from scratch. People like Jacques Vallee and Kevin Randle have been saying this for over 20 years, but ufology is pretty headstrong. Ufology is a stubborn mule.

To close with a close relative of abduction hypnosis, let's consider the retrieval of buried satanic abuse by hypnosis. This was all the rage in the early 90's, until objective people began to investigate the places mentioned in such accounts and began to realize that they were not literally true. There were tremendous scandals, remember? One woman put her father in prison based on her testimony of satanic abuse retrieved by hypnosis. Later she realized that this was all fantasy, part of the natural hypnosis "suggestibility and confabulation" side-effect of hypnosis. In other words, she recanted and with a lot of legal work actively worked to get her father released. I seem to recall that she then turned around and sued the pants off her satanic abuse researcher. Such lawsuits have made the practice of hypnotic retrieval of satanic abuse a dangerous and expensive bit of qwackery.

Since then, the use of hypnosis to retrieve satanic abuse has been roundly denounced by the police and other authorities who were taken for a ride to nowhere. At the height of the satanic abuse recovery movement, it was estimated that 1 person out of 10 had been secretly involved in satanic abuse but did not remember it (until they were "saved" by the satanic abuse researchers). Somehow the obvious link to alien abduction hypnotic research has been ignored by the usual suspects (Ivonne Smith, Budd Hopkins, David Jacobs, John Carpenter, John Mack, and a score of small time researchers across the country). Consequently, the madness continues because the mainstream drew a line. The mainstream was willing to investigate claims of satanic abuse, but refused to look into alien abduction. The mainstream (we are talking the FBI, local police, psychiatrists et al) realized the satanic abuse was bogus, a self-perpetuating fantasy via hypnosis. The only reason the use of hypnosis for abduction continues is because the mainstream had no tolerance for getting involved in a serious investigation of "aliens" abducting citizens. So into the vacuum came the amateurs. If the mainstream had gotten involved at the same tone of depth as they did for satanic abuse, I think they would have trounced people like Hopkins and Jacobs into the societal Hall of Shame! It is only the mainstream's intentional disdain for the topic that allows them to still flourish.

Sorry to turn this into a lecture. I've just been studying this for over 40 years and have reached a point of jaded skepticism towards the entire subject. Maybe I've just outgrown ufology. I know that sounds pompous, but hopefully you will get what I mean by that. Nothing is as it seems as we chase the rabbit down the hole behind Alice (no pun intended towards Emma Woods).

P.S. I am so glad that a previous long term co-host and his favorite moderator do not seem to be patrolling the neighborhood right now to call me or others "batshit insane" anymore. I was banned after emotionally refuting both and suggesting the previous co-host get some anger management therapy. I am very happy sanity has prevailed while I was gone, and the moderators are no longer outwardly attacking Emma Woods or people who participate in the forum. I thank Gene for only banning me for a month! I hope I can stay for a little while.

Although I do NOT really care about her story, Emma does act as a fulcrum for those of us who have had serious misgivings about the way abduction researchers have been using hypnosis and treating their subjects. She merely came along at the right time to be "used" in a sense to voice those concerns. In that sense, none of us who refuted the dogma of hypnosis on this forum were "ringers" or "shills" or crazy. It seems like the Paracast has caught up with us in our absence (patting myself on the back).::)
 
IndigoEyes,

Thank you for your very thoughtful response. I would agree with a number of your points. In particular, I think it would be extremely healthy for the field of abduction research to get some new blood in it who can re-look at the phenomenon ab initio. If they use hypnosis, the new researchers hopefully will be properly trained and use it only as one tool in many to study the phenomenon. I think most would agree that hypnosis should not occur over the telephone. In many respects, the field needs one or two more 'John Macks', open minded but skeptical qualified psychiatrists willing to do the ground work objectively, including assessing independent corroborating evidence. Please recognize, however, that some intelligent, articulate supporters of Messrs. Hopkins and Jacobs would argue that those two are in fact skeptical at heart. And it was John Mack, who seems to be left out of this whole discussion, who stated in the documentary Touched that he sees "the same complex narrative" across cases. You can add to this the work that William Simon did on the Hills before any movies or books were written about the phenomenon.

I understand and agree with your point about hypnosis and groundless charges of Satanic abuse. My knowledge of those cases is dated, but I seem to remember that hypnosis was the primary lynchpin on which those cases were founded. This is why independent, corroborating evidence is so important.

I have to tell you, I never bought into Whitley Strieber. I don't know why, but his statements never sat well with me. This doesn't disqualify valid testimony made in the Communion Letters, which I have not read, but is that a book containing untested and unexamined letters from third parties claiming to have experiences? Nonetheless, I am one to give weight to something if enough independent parties have a common view. Here, it appears the conclusion is that something is happening, but the true identity and nature of the phenomenon is far from clear.

At the heart of the matter, as an armchair spectator, I think it comes down to the fact that I am inclined to believe what Messrs. Mack, Hopkins, Jacobs, Carpenter, et. al. say. They all appear to be intelligent, civic minded, independently financially well off, and on the surface fundamentally honest. They all also claim to have substantial independent corroborating evidence, which is detailed in some of the books written by them. Ideally, it would be helpful if you and I could spend a year with one/some of them to witness firsthand the investigation of their cases, but realistically that will not happen. In short, the best we can hope for is the influx of new, qualified investigators who will help all of us confirm, debunk and perhaps advance the work that has already been done.
 
Tom,

I respect your views very much.

However, on behalf of the proverbial "viewing audience" (ha, ha), I want to point out that Betty and Barney Hill's psychiatrist, Dr. Simon, never believed that the events recovered via hypnosis were literally true. He did realize that the Hills interpreted those recovered memories as true because that is what happens when you are hypnotized. As you are coming up with the events, they are being laid down concurrently as memory tracks. As one person said, this changes who they are for the rest of their lives. Isn't it tragic if they then believe as memory something that was not literally true. Dr. Simon firmly believed that much of Barney's experience was transferred from Betty, who constantly told him about her dreams.

I also just want to say that a person can be brilliant, yet that does not translate to making their belief systems infallible. As a gross example, the architects of the Nazi Death Camps were brilliant in their creation of "efficient death" assembly lines. Yet their beliefs were abhorent. This is just an example.

I also personally know someone with a PHD in computer science who believes the Earth is only 6000 years old and that Creationism is literal fact. My point is that intellect does not translate into truth. John Mack was a brilliant man. I met him and talked to him for an extended period. I felt he was a gentle kind soul, but I left him feeling a sense of compassion for him. It just seemed that with all his intellectual brilliance, he was deeply yearning for something to hold onto, some "spiritual" truth. He found it in the benevolent aliens who he believed are here to expand our consciousness. Whereas a similarly brilliant man might have embraced Zen Buddhism or other forms of mysticism, John bound himself to the notion of a much wiser "other". While I do not argue such an "other" does not exist, I also do not NEED for them to exist the way John seemed to need them, in order to fulfil a spiritual vacancy. We are all human and all seek some sort of certainty and comfort. Yet I feel he was somewhat deluded in his notions.

Taking abduction researchers at their word is a bit dangerous, but that is your right, and I respect that. I think it can lead you down the primrose path to a dead end, but we shall see.

Take care.
 
IF you listen to to Emmas audio files, it shows that she tried to come to some kind of agreement with Dr Jacobs ... an agreement that would look good for BOTH of them. I find this considerate in the extreme regarding what has happened to her.
...

Wow ... I must apologise to all unsundry. I have no memory of writing this gibberish at all :D. I have to take sleeping tablets to sleep, and sometimes I have no memory of doing whatever I did the night before. It is said that once in the winter time I walked around the house in a sleeping bag ... umm ... pretending to be a worm :eek::D. Absolutely no memory of that whatsoever.

Anyway ... sorry guys for foisting on you this badly written missive ... or ... maybe it was the alien hybrids (???). I mean ... I don't remember doing it after all :p
 
The jury maybe out regarding hypnosis however hypnosis isn't really on trial here. I think what is on trial is Jacob's treatment of Emma Woods as a research subject both in his misuse of hypnosis - it seems to me he was planting memory which conformed to his research of anomalous experiences and also his lack of professionalism which did not take care of Emma Wood's well-being on any level whatsoever. Even what his expert and unammed professional advisors were telling him. It is strange that a stalker can live thousands of miles of away and cause him worry. But I suppose that is the cyber instant messaging world we reside in.

I think Paul you are right when you state that Temple should be embarassed could I add ashamed. Will they cover their bottoms and look for the broom and carpet??
 
I think what is on trial is Jacob's treatment of Emma Woods as a research subject both in his misuse of hypnosis - it seems to me he was planting memory which conformed to his research of anomalous experiences and also his lack of professionalism which did not take care of Emma Wood's well-being on any level whatsoever.

I think Paul you are right when you state that Temple should be embarassed could I add ashamed. Will they cover their bottoms and look for the broom and carpet??


To the first paragraph...Amen.

To the second paragraph...Temple University has dodged the bullet here by saying Dr. Jacobs was doing this outside of his University duties and they bear no responsibility for his "research". Of course, he was (If I remember correctly) originally using their stationary, making it look as if Temple were involved in the research.

At the very least, Dr. Jacobs should take a look in his French/English dictionary for the entry for "Folie a deux" and see if it applies to his situation...I'll bet it does. BTW, I have an art degree, so my prognosis is every bit as valid as someone with a history degree. ;)
 
I have an art degree, so my prognosis is every bit as valid as someone with a history degree. ;)

I have an honours degree in history, and a law degree, both of which make me smart enough to know that neither of them even remotely qualify me to be mucking about inside someone's head. Apparently, Jacobs isn't even that smart.
 
Wow ... I must apologise to all unsundry. I have no memory of writing this gibberish at all :D. I have to take sleeping tablets to sleep, and sometimes I have no memory of doing whatever I did the night before. It is said that once in the winter time I walked around the house in a sleeping bag ... umm ... pretending to be a worm :eek::D. Absolutely no memory of that whatsoever.

Anyway ... sorry guys for foisting on you this badly written missive ... or ... maybe it was the alien hybrids (???). I mean ... I don't remember doing it after all :p

Geez, I agreed with what you wrote, and now you are apologizing for it? (gulp).

Anyway, I had slightly similar experience yesterday. I went into the bedroom and the ceiling fan was whirring away at top speed. This spooked me because the only way the fan comes on is via a remote control device. Therefore, I could not have just accidentally hit a button to turn it on. This happened right after I had listened to a rather spooky interview about ghosts and tricksters, so I was thinking that I should maybe make the sign of the cross and protect myself from unseen entities! But then my rational mind suggested:
1. That I had turned it on while taking a nap, and simply forgot.
2. Someone close by perhaps has a remote on the same frequency that turned on my fan.
3. It was just one of those things.

I was given Paxil to cope with a severe jaw injury a few years ago. This drug is extremely addictive, as I found out when I tried to stop taking it. I had to taper slowly off the drug. Even then, I had withdrawal symptoms of doing things without any recollection, being very foggy mentally, a hair trigger temper, and upset tummy. My point? I've been there. Be very careful about taking sleep medications that can become addictive. Getting off of such medications is a bear, a growling Grisley Bear!!!

---------- Post added at 04:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:36 PM ----------

I have an honours degree in history, and a law degree, both of which make me smart enough to know that neither of them even remotely qualify me to be mucking about inside someone's head. Apparently, Jacobs isn't even that smart.

I have a Masters Degree in Computer Science & Systems Design. I am sure this does NOT qualify me to stomp around (like a bull in a china shop) in someone's head. Only the arrogance of the truly stupid could allow a person with a history degree or a "professional" artist (whatever that means) to do so without any qualms.

---------- Post added at 04:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:43 PM ----------

The jury maybe out regarding hypnosis however hypnosis isn't really on trial here. I think what is on trial is Jacob's treatment of Emma Woods as a research subject both in his misuse of hypnosis - it seems to me he was planting memory which conformed to his research of anomalous experiences and also his lack of professionalism which did not take care of Emma Wood's well-being on any level whatsoever. Even what his expert and unammed professional advisors were telling him. It is strange that a stalker can live thousands of miles of away and cause him worry. But I suppose that is the cyber instant messaging world we reside in.

I think Paul you are right when you state that Temple should be embarassed could I add ashamed. Will they cover their bottoms and look for the broom and carpet??

What do you mean the jury is out on the validity of hypnosis? What jury? What trial? The Court has already ruled on this one. The only people who seem to not be aware of that are the amateur alien abduction researchers and people interested in ufology who like a good yarn or really have grown accustomed to the current dogma and find it inconceivable that it would have to be thrown out.

With all due respect, what does it take for people to acknowledge from medically trained professionals (not history professors and artists) that hypnosis is NOT A VALID TOOL FOR ALIEN ABDUCTION MEMORY RETRIEVAL! If you want to hear an interview about this, go to the Paratopia podcasts and listen to the interview with Dr. Scott Lilienfeld, a professor of psychology at Emory University. This guy has no ax to grind about ufology. He couldn't care less about it, but he is a professional in the valid uses of hypnosis. \

Is the jury still out on whether smoking is bad for you?
Is the jury still out on whether eating high salt high fat fast food is bad for you?

I also think that since this particular thread has the purpose of allowing anyone to discuss THE SHOW, that means that hypnosis is perfectly appropriate since the guests use hypnosis to garner and support their wild alien abduction claims. In other words, anything that relates to the 2 gentlemen being interviewed is fair game for discussion here.

Please note that I did not post this in anger or any emotion. I'm simply replying to your comments. I agree with what you said about Jacob's treatment of his subjects, with Emma Woods as an example. This man has no more moral and ethical right to practice hypnosis on people than he has the right to perform brain surgery!
 
At the very least, Dr. Jacobs should take a look in his French/English dictionary for the entry for "Folie a deux" and see if it applies to his situation...I'll bet it does. BTW, I have an art degree, so my prognosis is every bit as valid as someone with a history degree. ;)

"Folie a deux" ... just watched an old X-files episode with that name a couple of nights ago. The episode involved a giant insect creature in the guise of a human being sucking out all the humanity and life of its human victim

I would say that sounds very much like the Emma Woods case ... but that would be nasty :D.

But in my opinion, I wouldn't say it is "Folie a deux" since I believe that Dr Jacobs was the one in control, Emma being in an extremely vulnerable and trusting state. I believe he had more influence over how things were going ... so I think the influence went in one direction as it were.

[Still ... Dr Jacobs could very well be a giant insect creature ... and we might never know :eek::D]
 
That would be the effect even if Jacobs went into that situation with good intentions, which I think he did by the way. Clearly he got in way over his head and a disaster was waiting to happen. My newsletter commentary this week recalls that little schtick from the NCIS TV show, where one of the agents gently slaps another in the head as a forum of rebuke. I think Jacobs needs to slap himself in the head for getting involved in this mess. And that's before we even discuss the impact of hypnotic regression, whether it's done in person or on the phone.
 
I read through this thread in it's entirety, yesterday and then today.

I'm glad that someone (sorry cannot remember who it was) brought up what was essentially the debunking of Budd Hopkins investigation and book Witnessed: The True Story of the Brooklyn Bridge Abductions. George Hansen, Joe Stefula and Richard Butler were meticulous in their debunking of it and what it was based on. http://www.tricksterbook.com/ArticlesOnline/LindaCase.htm

They investigated the Neopolitano case in their capacity as MUFON researchers and what ensued is a sobering eye-opener for those of us interested in this complex topc. It also exposed Jerome Clark, who personally attacked George Hansen for investigating the case and daring to question Hopkins.

The sci-fi book Night Eyes came out a few months before Neopolitano started to feed her 'story' to Hopkins and the similarities are embarassing! She obviously lifted from the book and found a gullibility in Hopkins to *believe*. That Hopkins is now involved with defending Jacobs isn't a surprise - as Jacobs defended Hopkins during that investigation.

Though it's so disgusting, no one should really be that surprised by David Jacobs and his behavior in the 'Emma Woods' case. Jacobs obsession with hybrids goes back to his book The Threat, which was an embarassing read. Essentially a poorly written soft-porn book about human females being ravished with rough sex by hybrids. And these hybrids show up just about everywhere! Conveniently there are no witnesses, no observers who see the ladies with the hybrids. We have to take Jacobs word for it. After all, he (like Hopkins) are authorities. [Even UFO Watchdog is careful to not expose them, much less step on their toes too hard]

The late John Keel long ago warned about what can happen to suspectible people involved with ufos (including 'aliens') and other occult subjects. Some people are drawn in by the trickster-like intellience behind the phenomenon - and that obviously would include some investigators/researchers. This is, I suspect, what happened to Jacobs.
The problem might not be so much hypnosis (though it is flawed and obviously influenced by the hypnotists) but unstable, unethical people like Jacobs, who long ago entered that world of high strangeness and was willing to take 'Emma' down with him because he believed hybrids were out to get him.
 
I read through this thread in it's entirety, yesterday and then today.

I'm glad that someone (sorry cannot remember who it was) brought up what was essentially the debunking of Budd Hopkins investigation and book Witnessed: The True Story of the Brooklyn Bridge Abductions. George Hansen, Joe Stefula and Richard Butler were meticulous in their debunking of it and what it was based on. http://www.tricksterbook.com/ArticlesOnline/LindaCase.htm

They investigated the Neopolitano case in their capacity as MUFON researchers and what ensued is a sobering eye-opener for those of us interested in this complex topc. It also exposed Jerome Clark, who personally attacked George Hansen for investigating the case and daring to question Hopkins.

The sci-fi book Night Eyes came out a few months before Neopolitano started to feed her 'story' to Hopkins and the similarities are embarassing! She obviously lifted from the book and found a gullibility in Hopkins to *believe*. That Hopkins is now involved with defending Jacobs isn't a surprise - as Jacobs defended Hopkins during that investigation.

Though it's so disgusting, no one should really be that surprised by David Jacobs and his behavior in the 'Emma Woods' case. Jacobs obsession with hybrids goes back to his book The Threat, which was an embarassing read. Essentially a poorly written soft-porn book about human females being ravished with rough sex by hybrids. And these hybrids show up just about everywhere! Conveniently there are no witnesses, no observers who see the ladies with the hybrids. We have to take Jacobs word for it. After all, he (like Hopkins) are authorities. [Even UFO Watchdog is careful to not expose them, much less step on their toes too hard]

The late John Keel long ago warned about what can happen to suspectible people involved with ufos (including 'aliens') and other occult subjects. Some people are drawn in by the trickster-like intellience behind the phenomenon - and that obviously would include some investigators/researchers. This is, I suspect, what happened to Jacobs.
The problem might not be so much hypnosis (though it is flawed and obviously influenced by the hypnotists) but unstable, unethical people like Jacobs, who long ago entered that world of high strangeness and was willing to take 'Emma' down with him because he believed hybrids were out to get him.

No, no, no! The post prior to yours states that David Jacobs went into the Emma Woods case (if not all others) with good intentions. (yeah, to get material to write another lurid book).

Ah, Jacobs, such a poor misguided misunderstood guy! After all is said and done, some people still lend him support. I cannot believe it. I really cannot believe it. Well, from what I understand, 34% of the nation still considered George Bush an excellent President when he left office. :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
 
No, no, no! The post prior to yours states with authority that David Jacobs went into the Emma Woods case (if not all others) with the best of intentions. Poor misguided misunderstood guy! After all is said and done, some people still give him praise. :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:


IndigoEyes - Yes, lavish praise it seems...... ::)
 
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