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Consciousness and the Paranormal — Part 3

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This Idea Must Die: Scientific Theories That Are Blocking Progress (Edge Question Series):Amazon:Books

Cause and Effect

"The paradoxes of quantum mechanics are a perfect example of this, where our mere observation of a particle can "cause" a distant particle to be in a different state. Of course there's no real paradox here, there's just a problem with trying to apply our storytelling framework to a situation where it doesn't match."

...

"It's much harder for us to imagine accelerations deciding to cause mass, so we tell the story a certain way."

With this, Herr Doktor Hillis nearly manages to stray into Eastern thinking!

... he says cause and effect doesn't just fail at the quantum scale:

Complex systems like living organisms

Stick market tickings and mind-brain tockings

"A gene does not cause a trait like height or a disease like cancer."

... science needs "more powerful explanatory tools" because these systems don't work like stories ...

(smcder but they do!)

"... causes bad effects don't exist in nature - that they're just convenient creations of our minds"

(smcder - so ... the mind can create things that exist outside of nature ...?)
 
(smcder - so ... the mind can create things that exist outside of nature ...?)

Yes.


Sailing to Byzantium
W. B. Yeats, 1865 - 1939

That is no country for old men. The young
In one another’s arms, birds in the trees
—Those dying generations—at their song,
The salmon-falls, the mackerel-crowded seas,
Fish, flesh, or fowl, commend all summer long
Whatever is begotten, born, and dies.
Caught in that sensual music all neglect
Monuments of unageing intellect.

An aged man is but a paltry thing,
A tattered coat upon a stick, unless
Soul clap its hands and sing, and louder sing
For every tatter in its mortal dress,
Nor is there singing school but studying
Monuments of its own magnificence;
And therefore I have sailed the seas and come
To the holy city of Byzantium.

O sages standing in God’s holy fire
As in the gold mosaic of a wall,
Come from the holy fire, perne in a gyre,
And be the singing-masters of my soul.
Consume my heart away; sick with desire
And fastened to a dying animal
It knows not what it is; and gather me
Into the artifice of eternity.

Once out of nature I shall never take
My bodily form from any natural thing,
But such a form as Grecian goldsmiths make
Of hammered gold and gold enamelling
To keep a drowsy Emperor awake;
Or set upon a golden bough to sing
To lords and ladies of Byzantium
Of what is past, or passing, or to come.
 
Yes.


Sailing to Byzantium
W. B. Yeats, 1865 - 1939

That is no country for old men. The young
In one another’s arms, birds in the trees
—Those dying generations—at their song,
The salmon-falls, the mackerel-crowded seas,
Fish, flesh, or fowl, commend all summer long
Whatever is begotten, born, and dies.
Caught in that sensual music all neglect
Monuments of unageing intellect.

An aged man is but a paltry thing,
A tattered coat upon a stick, unless
Soul clap its hands and sing, and louder sing
For every tatter in its mortal dress,
Nor is there singing school but studying
Monuments of its own magnificence;
And therefore I have sailed the seas and come
To the holy city of Byzantium.

O sages standing in God’s holy fire
As in the gold mosaic of a wall,
Come from the holy fire, perne in a gyre,
And be the singing-masters of my soul.
Consume my heart away; sick with desire
And fastened to a dying animal
It knows not what it is; and gather me
Into the artifice of eternity.

Once out of nature I shall never take
My bodily form from any natural thing,
But such a form as Grecian goldsmiths make
Of hammered gold and gold enamelling
To keep a drowsy Emperor awake;
Or set upon a golden bough to sing
To lords and ladies of Byzantium
Of what is past, or passing, or to come.

Yes, I think it's just not what Dr Hillis meant to say though.

I hate what Cormac McCarthy made of this opening line. I think he will, sooner rather than later, be appraised as one of the most over-rated writers of our time.
 
Yes, I think it's just not what Dr Hillis meant to say though.

I hate what Cormac McCarthy made of this opening line. I think he will, sooner rather than later, be appraised as one of the most over-rated writers of our time.

Would you link the sources you're referring to so I can understand what these individuals are saying? Thanks Steve.
 
Reading "What is Philosophy" that @Constance put me on to and it's recent history of philosophy and the idea of a "reset" is on my mind ... I think sometimes that we get too granular, too quickly - arguing over but drafts ... our creaturely instinct the search for terra firmer and then to look for G-d in the details, forgetting the devil is there ahead of us.

Who builds monolithic theories these days? And, who that does, becomes anything more than a footnote? Nietzche, modern prophet, understood that the main products of such systematic theorizing is a Babel effect ... we already have Kant to argue over. It seems to me we may be in a critical period of philosophy, meaning, contra Roosevelt:

It is just the critic who counts; the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. No credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; but who errs, and comes short again and again, because with wrong effort there is only error and shortcoming; who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the confusion of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails and fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall nevertheless be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat but who still finds on only oblivion.

In other words, the tragic view of philosophy is for the masochist.
 
Would you link the sources you're referring to so I can understand what these individuals are saying? Thanks Steve.

Cormac McCarthy wrote No Country for Old Men, The Road and Blood Meridian - all highly praised by critics.

No Country was made into a movie. The "hero" is a machine played utterly dead-pan by Javier Bardem (he was nominated or awarded Best Supporting Actor for his flaccid portrayal of a killer). His MO is to kill people with a captive-bolt pistol. That is another machine that uses compressed air to fire a bolt into the head of a cow to slaughter it. In absurd sequences he drags the tank of around and walks up to people and simply places it against their head while they stand passively in place, as if transfixed by fate.

In 1977 John Carpenter defined the Boogeyman in Halloween's Michael Myers. I think it was iconic and I think Carpenter ran deeper into our psyche than he is credited. This was in the early, raw days of our fascination with serial killers. In 1990 Anthony Hopkins played the brilliant and charming psychiatrist/cannibal Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs (complete with posh British accent) - as our guilty fascination then demanded a respectable covering. McCarthy now comes full circle, giving an air of literary respectability to a character that is pure "high Hollywood hokum" of a type the masked Michael Myers (the product of a nascent independent-film industry) could never have aspired to as it didn't yet exist.

What else has McCarthy done? Invented a seven foot tall, albino (think Moby Dick The Whiteness of the Whale for obvious allusion) named "The Judge" who represents fate, death, etc ... He also wrote The Road about a man trying to save his child from cannibals in post-apocalyptic America. I can't blame him ... sounds like a hell of a lot of fun, if a writer is sharp enough to get away with it.

Put another way, McCarthy is who Stephen King wishes he was.
 
cattle gun.png

Rather heavy-handed isn't it?


hannibal.jpg

Here is Sir Anthony Hopkins who will best be known for playing a cannibal ... what is being cannibalized is British stage tradition (see see also Helen Mirren and Dame Judy Dench)

Finally, the most iconic and honest image of the Boogeyman, John Carpenter's Michael Myers
aka "The Shape"

myers.png

Originally played by the dancer Nick Castle, the face should look familiar as its a bleached mask of Captain Kirk

ir

Chapter XLII
The Whiteness of the Whale
page 185
What the White Whale was to Ahab, has been hinted; what, at times, he was to me, as yet remains unsaid.
Aside from those more obvious considerations touching Moby Dick, which could not but occasionally awaken in any man's soul some alarm, there was another thought, or rather vague, nameless horror concerning him, which at times by its intensity completely overpowered all the rest; and yet so mystical and well nigh ineffable was it, that I almost despair of putting it in a comprehensible form. It was the whiteness of the whale that above all things appalled me. But how can I hope to explain myself here; and yet, in some dim, random way, explain myself I must, else all these chapters might be naught.


... but I digress
 
short (700) and long (7500) versions of my paper to be submitted to Synthese and TN.
Pw: Paracast

www.mind-phronesis.co.uk/knowledge-and-the-three-transcendent-classes-of-justified-truth

Comments most welcome
From the long version:

"1 Biochemical Knowledge

If on a clear day I were to ask you, “where is the sun’s location?”, you would point and reply, “over there”, explaining that your brain perceives by way of some complex of reliable neurological and biochemical mechanisms. Notwithstanding illusions or hallucination, you are justified to state categorically that you know it to be a fact—because of these various mechanisms—that the sun is located where you are pointing.

There are many species of plant whose leaves and/or flowers follow the sun as it traverses the sky. Of course, it is not luck nor chance that plants should do this. But if not chance, what could a plant possibly be if not informed about its environment in some manner? Otherwise one might well ask, why is there this correspondence between sun and plant? Might it be possible that the plant’s physiology—with its complex biochemical mechanisms—amounts to an innately determined information-construct that enables the following of the sun’s movement? What should we call this correspondence with fact? Maybe it is too far fetched to suggest that plants possess ‘biochemically constructed knowledge’: a knowledge that is devoid of conceptual representations about reality, that institutes no processes of thoughtful consideration, requires no belief, but rather, is a knowledge that is qualitatively relevant having proved highly valuable in terms of its survival potency. It is a fact that the sun traverses the sky and undoubtedly that fact is represented in the plant’s physiological mechanism; capturing the sun’s light is what the plant’s movements are about."

...

"4 Berrybug and the qualitative relevance of colour

From a physical standpoint, an object might reflect light within the frequency range 526–606 THz whilst a second object 400-484 THz.3 Let us assume that on earth, surfaces that reflect frequencies within 526-606 THz are ubiquitous, for complex reasons that we shall not explore here for the sake of brevity, and that these surfaces are of no material evolutionary benefit to a particular insect species by the name of Berrybug. Conversely, some rare objects that reflect frequencies within 400-484 THz are important to Berrybug’s survival because of their nutritional content.4 It would be qualitatively pertinent—i.e., it would have an impact on survival pressures—for that species to evolve mechanisms (innate biochemical and neurological mechanisms) that are alert to 400-484 THz reflecting colouration. By ‘alert’, what I mean is that it would be qualitatively pertinent for mechanisms to prioritise 400-484 THz colourations over other frequencies during the assimilation of sensory stimulation. These prioritising biochemical and neurological mechanisms would intensify focus in favour of this range of colours; augment feedback through perceptual re-enforcement; and more accurately direct further sensory exploration and assimilation. These accentuating mechanisms would facilitate operational economy for more responsive and ultimately rewarding motor activities. Conversely, it would be pertinent for innate mechanisms to be indifferent to the ubiquitous 526-606 THz reflecting objects by attenuating their focal impact neurologically. Additionally, if those desirable 400-484 THz objects had the added characteristic of possessing spherical contours (rather than jagged, for instance), any individuals of the species possessing autonomic shape-distinguishing neurological capabilities would possess an additional qualifying survival advantage. In themselves, these coloured and shaped objects have no intrinsic phenomenal identity, but the species will tend to evolve increasingly subtle and sophisticated biochemical and neurological mechanisms that are qualitatively delineated due to their impact on survival potentials. These capabilities might remain innately acquired, and therefore appear non-representational from an orthodox philosophical perspective (such as expressed in Block, 1995; McGinn, 1986; and Searle, 1983), but the physiologies do represent something; they represent the qualitative relevancy of environments in terms of the particular survival requirements of that species. So on this account, there is necessarily a qualitative representational correspondence between physiologies and the world. It is the relationship between evolved physiologies and their relevance to the environment and to survival that allows us to conclude that these light frequencies (526-606 and 400-484 THz), whose colours humans experience as green and red respectively, and each shape, which humans refer to as spherical and jagged (or dare I say, ‘acute-triangle shaped in appearance’ see Dennett, 2007, p. 215), are potentially both qualitatively differentiated and observer-dependent for any given species6 (observer-dependent rather than observer-independent; which is a significant departure from Tye’s stance; 1995, p. 100).

If an organism species feeds off red berries because of its nutritional benefits, it makes sense—sense with regard survival—for the species to evolve innate physiological mechanisms that energise and provoke its individuals to respond attentively to the visual perception of red colouration and to spherical objects more generally. In contrast, it makes sense for enthusiasm to be dampened to green colouration and to the asymmetries of jagged contours neurologically because of their insignificant survival relevancy. From this we have the foundational idea of the attractive and aversive characterisation of environmental properties in the construction of complex innate biochemical and neurological mechanisms. Of course, this implies that a creature that gains nutritional benefits from blue bananas whilst being indifferent to the nutritional content of red berries will possess inverted phenomenal affectations to that of Berrybug (because its survival would depend on it) giving us a plausible account that undermines the view that it is not possible for organisms that are sensitive to the same range of wavelengths as ourselves to have inverted or contrasting phenomenal impressions to ourselves.7"
Pharoah, over all I'm finding the writing to be easy to follow. Ive only finished with section four, but I like how the paper is unfolding.

I want to ask again about your use of the phrase "qualitatively relevant." You first use the phrase in section one, but don't go to lengths to define it.

I think of the term qualitative in two ways; one is the sense in which something has the quality of being, essentially, good or bad from a particular pov, and another sense in which it refers to the characteristics of something (in the context of consciousness, a synonym might be "phenomenal.")

In what Ive read of HCT—including the above—you seem to explain your use of the phrase in the former sense, but you then also seem to assume (?) that you've explained the latter sense as well. (I've tried to highlight this with my underlines above.)

That is, explaining that certain environmental stimuli are good or bad for an organism and that this is why an evolved organism might possess physiological mechanics that guide them toward or away from such qualitatively relevant stimuli does not explain how/why qualitative/phenomenal properties and/or experience exists.

For instance, your entire explanation of the dynamic relationship between environments and the organisms which evolve within them need not involve the phenomenal properties of red, green, and shapes.

That is, the frequencies of 526-606 and 400-484 THz could exist in the environment and be represented in an organism with chemical reaction X or vibration Z of neural cluster X and that would be the end of it. There is no need to appeal to subjective, phenomenal qualities such as green and red.

Furthermore, for every variety of photon wave frequency, there could easily be a corresponding chemical reaction, neural cluster, or vibration frequency to represent said frequency. Again, there is no need to bring phenomenal characteristics (red, green, etc) into the explanation. Of course, these physiological representations would still be geared toward stimuli that were qualitatively relevant, but that, in itself, does not give rise to phenomenal characteristics, no?

Finally, I didnt follow the last bit about blue bananas. The final sentence included a double negative which made it hard to follow.

I would ask, why couldn't the frequencies 526-606 and 400-484 (which you say for humans possess—or are given—the phenomenal qualities of green and red) have the reverse phenomenal qualities of red and green? That is to say, why for humans is 526-606 THz experienced as green and 400-484 THz experienced as red?

This would mean that in your analogy the same objects (spheres reflecting 400-484 THz) would be qualitatively good for the organism, but the organism would experience them as green berries instead of red. From whence comes the specific phenomenal property of an environmental stimulus?
 
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From the long version:

"1 Biochemical Knowledge

If on a clear day I were to ask you, “where is the sun’s location?”, you would point and reply, “over there”, explaining that your brain perceives by way of some complex of reliable neurological and biochemical mechanisms. Notwithstanding illusions or hallucination, you are justified to state categorically that you know it to be a fact—because of these various mechanisms—that the sun is located where you are pointing.

There are many species of plant whose leaves and/or flowers follow the sun as it traverses the sky. Of course, it is not luck nor chance that plants should do this. But if not chance, what could a plant possibly be if not informed about its environment in some manner? Otherwise one might well ask, why is there this correspondence between sun and plant? Might it be possible that the plant’s physiology—with its complex biochemical mechanisms—amounts to an innately determined information-construct that enables the following of the sun’s movement? What should we call this correspondence with fact? Maybe it is too far fetched to suggest that plants possess ‘biochemically constructed knowledge’: a knowledge that is devoid of conceptual representations about reality, that institutes no processes of thoughtful consideration, requires no belief, but rather, is a knowledge that is qualitatively relevant having proved highly valuable in terms of its survival potency. It is a fact that the sun traverses the sky and undoubtedly that fact is represented in the plant’s physiological mechanism; capturing the sun’s light is what the plant’s movements are about."

...

"4 Berrybug and the qualitative relevance of colour

From a physical standpoint, an object might reflect light within the frequency range 526–606 THz whilst a second object 400-484 THz.3 Let us assume that on earth, surfaces that reflect frequencies within 526-606 THz are ubiquitous, for complex reasons that we shall not explore here for the sake of brevity, and that these surfaces are of no material evolutionary benefit to a particular insect species by the name of Berrybug. Conversely, some rare objects that reflect frequencies within 400-484 THz are important to Berrybug’s survival because of their nutritional content.4 It would be qualitatively pertinent—i.e., it would have an impact on survival pressures—for that species to evolve mechanisms (innate biochemical and neurological mechanisms) that are alert to 400-484 THz reflecting colouration. By ‘alert’, what I mean is that it would be qualitatively pertinent for mechanisms to prioritise 400-484 THz colourations over other frequencies during the assimilation of sensory stimulation. These prioritising biochemical and neurological mechanisms would intensify focus in favour of this range of colours; augment feedback through perceptual re-enforcement; and more accurately direct further sensory exploration and assimilation. These accentuating mechanisms would facilitate operational economy for more responsive and ultimately rewarding motor activities. Conversely, it would be pertinent for innate mechanisms to be indifferent to the ubiquitous 526-606 THz reflecting objects by attenuating their focal impact neurologically. Additionally, if those desirable 400-484 THz objects had the added characteristic of possessing spherical contours (rather than jagged, for instance), any individuals of the species possessing autonomic shape-distinguishing neurological capabilities would possess an additional qualifying survival advantage. In themselves, these coloured and shaped objects have no intrinsic phenomenal identity, but the species will tend to evolve increasingly subtle and sophisticated biochemical and neurological mechanisms that are qualitatively delineated due to their impact on survival potentials. These capabilities might remain innately acquired, and therefore appear non-representational from an orthodox philosophical perspective (such as expressed in Block, 1995; McGinn, 1986; and Searle, 1983), but the physiologies do represent something; they represent the qualitative relevancy of environments in terms of the particular survival requirements of that species. So on this account, there is necessarily a qualitative representational correspondence between physiologies and the world. It is the relationship between evolved physiologies and their relevance to the environment and to survival that allows us to conclude that these light frequencies (526-606 and 400-484 THz), whose colours humans experience as green and red respectively, and each shape, which humans refer to as spherical and jagged (or dare I say, ‘acute-triangle shaped in appearance’ see Dennett, 2007, p. 215), are potentially both qualitatively differentiated and observer-dependent for any given species6 (observer-dependent rather than observer-independent; which is a significant departure from Tye’s stance; 1995, p. 100).

If an organism species feeds off red berries because of its nutritional benefits, it makes sense—sense with regard survival—for the species to evolve innate physiological mechanisms that energise and provoke its individuals to respond attentively to the visual perception of red colouration and to spherical objects more generally. In contrast, it makes sense for enthusiasm to be dampened to green colouration and to the asymmetries of jagged contours neurologically because of their insignificant survival relevancy. From this we have the foundational idea of the attractive and aversive characterisation of environmental properties in the construction of complex innate biochemical and neurological mechanisms. Of course, this implies that a creature that gains nutritional benefits from blue bananas whilst being indifferent to the nutritional content of red berries will possess inverted phenomenal affectations to that of Berrybug (because its survival would depend on it) giving us a plausible account that undermines the view that it is not possible for organisms that are sensitive to the same range of wavelengths as ourselves to have inverted or contrasting phenomenal impressions to ourselves.7"
Pharoah, over all I'm finding the writing to be easy to follow. Ive only finished with section four, but I like how the paper is unfolding.

I want to ask again about your use of the phrase "qualitatively relevant." You first use the phrase in section one, but don't go to lengths to define it.

I think of the term qualitative in two ways; one is the sense in which something has the quality of being, essentially, good or bad from a particular pov, and another sense in which it refers to the characteristics of something (in the context of consciousness, a synonym might be "phenomenal.")

In what Ive read of HCT—including the above—you seem to explain your use of the phrase in the former sense, but you then also seem to assume (?) that you've explained the latter sense as well. (I've tried to highlight this with my underlines above.)

That is, explaining that certain environmental stimuli are good or bad for an organism and that this is why an evolved organism might possess physiological mechanics that guide them toward or away from such qualitatively relevant stimuli does not explain how/why qualitative/phenomenal properties and/or experience exists.

For instance, your entire explanation of the dynamic relationship between environments and the organisms which evolve within them need not involve the phenomenal properties of red, green, and shapes.

That is, the frequencies of 526-606 and 400-484 THz could exist in the environment and be represented in an organism with chemical reaction X or vibration Z of neural cluster X and that would be the end of it. There is no need to appeal to subjective, phenomenal qualities such as green and red.

Furthermore, for every variety of photon wave frequency, there could easily be a corresponding chemical reaction, neural cluster, or vibration frequency to represent said frequency. Again, there is no need to bring phenomenal characteristics (red, green, etc) into the explanation. Of course, these physiological representations would still be geared toward stimuli that were qualitatively relevant, but that, in itself, does not give rise to phenomenal characteristics, no?

Finally, I didnt follow the last bit about blue bananas. The final sentence included a double negative which made it hard to follow.

I would ask, why couldn't the frequencies 526-606 and 400-484 (which you say for humans possess—or are given—the phenomenal qualities of green and red) have the reverse phenomenal qualities of red and green? That is to say, why for humans is 526-606 THz experienced as green and 400-484 THz experienced as red?

In what Ive read of HCT—including the above—you seem to explain your use of the phrase in the former sense, but you then also seem to assume (?) that you've explained the latter sense as well. (I've tried to highlight this with my underlines above.)
That is, explaining that certain environmental stimuli are good or bad for an organism and that this is why an evolved organism might possess physiological mechanics that guide them toward or away from such qualitatively relevant stimuli does not explain how/why qualitative/phenomenal properties and/or experience exists.
For instance, your entire explanation of the dynamic relationship between environments and the organisms which evolve within them need not involve the phenomenal properties of red, green, and shapes.
That is, the frequencies of 526-606 and 400-484 THz could exist in the environment and be represented in an organism with chemical reaction X or vibration Z of neural cluster X and that would be the end of it. There is no need to appeal to subjective, phenomenal qualities such as green and red.


Zombie argument?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This fella walks into an Arkansas bar ... and he sits around a while listening to the regulars. Every once in a while someone will call out a number:

"23!" and everyone will fall to laughing

"13!" "27"

finally, the outsider asks his buddy what's going on?

"Well, these folks have been here so long that all the jokes and stories are numbered. All you have to do is call out a number."

The fella thinks for a bit, then gets his confidence up and decideds 19 is pretty safe, so he stands up, taps his beer with his bowie knife and calls out in the ensuing silence:

"19!"

Dead silence. A bit later, when he is locked safely in his truck and speeding a mile down the road from the angry mob, he asks his buddy what the hell happened?

"Well, I reckon some folks can tell a joke and some jest can't."
 
From the long version:

"1 Biochemical Knowledge

If on a clear day I were to ask you, “where is the sun’s location?”, you would point and reply, “over there”, explaining that your brain perceives by way of some complex of reliable neurological and biochemical mechanisms. Notwithstanding illusions or hallucination, you are justified to state categorically that you know it to be a fact—because of these various mechanisms—that the sun is located where you are pointing.

There are many species of plant whose leaves and/or flowers follow the sun as it traverses the sky. Of course, it is not luck nor chance that plants should do this. But if not chance, what could a plant possibly be if not informed about its environment in some manner? Otherwise one might well ask, why is there this correspondence between sun and plant? Might it be possible that the plant’s physiology—with its complex biochemical mechanisms—amounts to an innately determined information-construct that enables the following of the sun’s movement? What should we call this correspondence with fact? Maybe it is too far fetched to suggest that plants possess ‘biochemically constructed knowledge’: a knowledge that is devoid of conceptual representations about reality, that institutes no processes of thoughtful consideration, requires no belief, but rather, is a knowledge that is qualitatively relevant having proved highly valuable in terms of its survival potency. It is a fact that the sun traverses the sky and undoubtedly that fact is represented in the plant’s physiological mechanism; capturing the sun’s light is what the plant’s movements are about."

...

"4 Berrybug and the qualitative relevance of colour

From a physical standpoint, an object might reflect light within the frequency range 526–606 THz whilst a second object 400-484 THz.3 Let us assume that on earth, surfaces that reflect frequencies within 526-606 THz are ubiquitous, for complex reasons that we shall not explore here for the sake of brevity, and that these surfaces are of no material evolutionary benefit to a particular insect species by the name of Berrybug. Conversely, some rare objects that reflect frequencies within 400-484 THz are important to Berrybug’s survival because of their nutritional content.4 It would be qualitatively pertinent—i.e., it would have an impact on survival pressures—for that species to evolve mechanisms (innate biochemical and neurological mechanisms) that are alert to 400-484 THz reflecting colouration. By ‘alert’, what I mean is that it would be qualitatively pertinent for mechanisms to prioritise 400-484 THz colourations over other frequencies during the assimilation of sensory stimulation. These prioritising biochemical and neurological mechanisms would intensify focus in favour of this range of colours; augment feedback through perceptual re-enforcement; and more accurately direct further sensory exploration and assimilation. These accentuating mechanisms would facilitate operational economy for more responsive and ultimately rewarding motor activities. Conversely, it would be pertinent for innate mechanisms to be indifferent to the ubiquitous 526-606 THz reflecting objects by attenuating their focal impact neurologically. Additionally, if those desirable 400-484 THz objects had the added characteristic of possessing spherical contours (rather than jagged, for instance), any individuals of the species possessing autonomic shape-distinguishing neurological capabilities would possess an additional qualifying survival advantage. In themselves, these coloured and shaped objects have no intrinsic phenomenal identity, but the species will tend to evolve increasingly subtle and sophisticated biochemical and neurological mechanisms that are qualitatively delineated due to their impact on survival potentials. These capabilities might remain innately acquired, and therefore appear non-representational from an orthodox philosophical perspective (such as expressed in Block, 1995; McGinn, 1986; and Searle, 1983), but the physiologies do represent something; they represent the qualitative relevancy of environments in terms of the particular survival requirements of that species. So on this account, there is necessarily a qualitative representational correspondence between physiologies and the world. It is the relationship between evolved physiologies and their relevance to the environment and to survival that allows us to conclude that these light frequencies (526-606 and 400-484 THz), whose colours humans experience as green and red respectively, and each shape, which humans refer to as spherical and jagged (or dare I say, ‘acute-triangle shaped in appearance’ see Dennett, 2007, p. 215), are potentially both qualitatively differentiated and observer-dependent for any given species6 (observer-dependent rather than observer-independent; which is a significant departure from Tye’s stance; 1995, p. 100).

If an organism species feeds off red berries because of its nutritional benefits, it makes sense—sense with regard survival—for the species to evolve innate physiological mechanisms that energise and provoke its individuals to respond attentively to the visual perception of red colouration and to spherical objects more generally. In contrast, it makes sense for enthusiasm to be dampened to green colouration and to the asymmetries of jagged contours neurologically because of their insignificant survival relevancy. From this we have the foundational idea of the attractive and aversive characterisation of environmental properties in the construction of complex innate biochemical and neurological mechanisms. Of course, this implies that a creature that gains nutritional benefits from blue bananas whilst being indifferent to the nutritional content of red berries will possess inverted phenomenal affectations to that of Berrybug (because its survival would depend on it) giving us a plausible account that undermines the view that it is not possible for organisms that are sensitive to the same range of wavelengths as ourselves to have inverted or contrasting phenomenal impressions to ourselves.7"
Pharoah, over all I'm finding the writing to be easy to follow. Ive only finished with section four, but I like how the paper is unfolding.

I want to ask again about your use of the phrase "qualitatively relevant." You first use the phrase in section one, but don't go to lengths to define it.

I think of the term qualitative in two ways; one is the sense in which something has the quality of being, essentially, good or bad from a particular pov, and another sense in which it refers to the characteristics of something (in the context of consciousness, a synonym might be "phenomenal.")

In what Ive read of HCT—including the above—you seem to explain your use of the phrase in the former sense, but you then also seem to assume (?) that you've explained the latter sense as well. (I've tried to highlight this with my underlines above.)

That is, explaining that certain environmental stimuli are good or bad for an organism and that this is why an evolved organism might possess physiological mechanics that guide them toward or away from such qualitatively relevant stimuli does not explain how/why qualitative/phenomenal properties and/or experience exists.

For instance, your entire explanation of the dynamic relationship between environments and the organisms which evolve within them need not involve the phenomenal properties of red, green, and shapes.

That is, the frequencies of 526-606 and 400-484 THz could exist in the environment and be represented in an organism with chemical reaction X or vibration Z of neural cluster X and that would be the end of it. There is no need to appeal to subjective, phenomenal qualities such as green and red.

Furthermore, for every variety of photon wave frequency, there could easily be a corresponding chemical reaction, neural cluster, or vibration frequency to represent said frequency. Again, there is no need to bring phenomenal characteristics (red, green, etc) into the explanation. Of course, these physiological representations would still be geared toward stimuli that were qualitatively relevant, but that, in itself, does not give rise to phenomenal characteristics, no?

Finally, I didnt follow the last bit about blue bananas. The final sentence included a double negative which made it hard to follow.

I would ask, why couldn't the frequencies 526-606 and 400-484 (which you say for humans possess—or are given—the phenomenal qualities of green and red) have the reverse phenomenal qualities of red and green? That is to say, why for humans is 526-606 THz experienced as green and 400-484 THz experienced as red?

This would mean that in your analogy the same objects (spheres reflecting 400-484 THz) would be qualitatively good for the organism, but the organism would experience them as green berries instead of red. From whence comes the specific phenomenal property of an environmental stimulus?
@Soupie Extremely helpful comment. Really pleased with the questions and will make some changes. Will respond properly when I am at a computer tonight. My roving iPad out of commission at mo and my phone screen is too titchy

@smcder what's ur beef with the psycho movies. Not sure what u saying.
 
"What is Philosophy" and The Speculative Turn materials @Constance has posted tell me we can't continue business as usual. Systematic philosophical efforts will earn a footnote at best.

The essays I posted tell me the same thing ... after a while one begins to feel that everything you know is wrong ... no area of human thought enjoys a thorough grounding or has for almost a century ... mathematics as much as theology. The list of ideas that the experts would jettison is telling:

IQ
The Laws of Physics Are Predetermined
Cause and Effect
Numbering Nature
Human Nature
The Atheism Prerequisite
Evolution is "True"
The Universe
Falsifiability
Scientists Ought to Know Everything Scientifically Knowable
Anti-anecdotalism
Science Makes Philosophy Obsolete
"Science" (!)


and on and on ... we are way behind here folks, toiling in well tilled fields.

We have to come to a new understanding of what it even means to know, a mature relationship to knowledge ... there is a calling for tearing some things down before systematic thought can come back in. The garden must be weeded.

Science and Technology (!!)
The Self
Common Sense
Things Are Either True or False
(I told you!)
Simple Answers
Complicated Answers
We'll Never Hit Barriers to Scientific Understanding


The answers don't lie in past approaches - or linear projections of past approaches - we have to be sure we are going in new directions. What did Nagel write in 1986? What did he write yesterday? This morning? The answers lie and in breaking apart all that we know and uprooting our assumptions. Doesn't what we want to be true tell us as truly as what we claim we can prove? (And why do we insist on a disheartening gap between the two? A residue of Puritanism?) An apophatic approach to philosophy - we can only say what it isn't and that's everything that it has ever been before.

One Genome Per Individual
Nature vs Nurture
Natural Selection is the Only Engine of Evolution


I feel like Khan in Star Trek III (just before he is blown up):

"He is from the 20th century and still thinks in three dimensions."

Our World Has Only Three Space Dimensions
Altruism
Humans Are By Nature Social Animals
Evidence Based Medicine
Large Randomized Controlled Trials
 
Rather heavy-handed isn't it?

Yes. (sounds and looks like a Burnt State thread)

Anyway, I'll look up what Hillis (?) wrote tangent to the Yeats poem or its title. Is that meant to be Hillis-Miller, who might comment on the Yeats poem with excellent insight. I'll found our presently. Others might cop Yeats's title or part of it without understanding what the poet was saying, something that irks me as a literary critic.
 
Yes. (sounds and looks like a Burnt State thread)

Anyway, I'll look up what Hillis (?) wrote tangent to the Yeats poem or its title. Is that meant to be Hillis-Miller, who might comment on the Yeats poem with excellent insight. I'll found our presently. Others might cop Yeats's title or part of it without understanding what the poet was saying, something that irks me as a literary critic.

Bingo

No, Danny Hillis ... you responded to his comment about things in the mind being outside of nature ... something he wouldn't have meant to say literally, so it's not a major point ... just a nit I picked.

McCarthy I'm sure has an understanding of what the poet was saying, he is a brilliant man - but and he used it for his own purposes, which I think have been given more nobility than they deserve. One film critic called "No Country For Old Men" a case of The Emperor's New Clothes, which was just what I thought about it when I left the theater. He also used the phrase "high Hollywood hokum".

McCarthy is a much better writer than King and isn't fawning and bullying his way for the critic's favor like King is (1. he has their favor and 2. he is reclusive) ... but I still don't understand the high acclaim he reads ... part of it does seem to be masochistic, his work is extremely dark and depressing and it seems a badge of honor to make it through Blood Meridian. It reminds me of the literary re-evaluation of the Marquis de Sade.
 
We have to come to a new understanding of what it even means to know, a mature relationship to knowledge ... there is a calling for tearing some things down before systematic thought can come back in. The garden must be weeded.


The answers don't lie in past approaches - or linear projections of past approaches - we have to be sure we are going in new directions. What did Nagel write in 1986? What did he write yesterday? This morning? The answers lie and in breaking apart all that we know and uprooting our assumptions. Doesn't what we want to be true tell us as truly as what we claim we can prove? (And why do we insist on a disheartening gap between the two? A residue of Puritanism?) An apophatic approach to philosophy - we can only say what it isn't and that's everything that it has ever been before.


Thou art waxing extremely gloomy (and unnecessarily so) in the above statements I think. I see the intellectual world of the present as teeming with various ideas and approaches to understanding the nature of reality and presenting conflicting ideas about how our species (which by now constitutes the management of the planet's life, balance, and future) should negotiate the future. "Systematic thinking," if by this term you refer to closed-system, heavily presuppositional, thinking whether in science or the philosophy that follows it is certainly to be critiqued. And it's being critiqued by many individuals even within science and certainly in philosophy. I don't think we need to discard all the ideas of the past since some of them remain valid and usable to us in the present. We do need to discard presuppositions that predefine what thinking is and can be {or that never pursue the question of how consciousness and mind arise and develop in our species), presuppositions exemplified most fully in the materialism and objectivism still dominant in the current scientific paradigm.

You ask: "Doesn't what we want to be true tell us as truly as what we claim we can prove? (And why do we insist on a disheartening gap between the two?" I agree with you in this.
 
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