Do you believe in god??

[Kieran]

The Catholic church is a institution based on control. I think if you look at it seriously most bodys run by humans are about control. You go to work ,you might have freedom at work, but still there is control procedures. The goverment also gives you freedom but there is also controls procedures you have to obey. Human life is all about control.The only time you have some type of control is in your home.

 

[thetruthisoutthere]

My answer to the poll question was no. I like many other posters think that the poll was to vague so let me specify my no. I don't believe in a personal God/Creator that religions such as christianity and islam invented. There may be some design behind our universe but if there is I am not even going to attempt to say what is capable of creating something so vast. Religion as I stated earlier to me is all just a way for control to take place. I think this is a very interesting topic and should be discussed more often than it is. Anyway those are my two cents.

P.S. The truth is out there

 

[IgnoreTheFacts]

My answer was no. Been dead twice, no white light, nothing. Was really a let down, lol. I feel I was cheated out of a cool near death experience, lol.

Personally, if you need to believe in a god in order to give your life some sort of meaning, then go for it. I am actually jealous of people who believe in god. Then tend to be more stress free than folks like myself. I worry about things, outcomes, what I can do to better myself and others....but the die hard religious folks seem to throw their hands up and prescribe everything to "god's will". Lucky bastards.

Kind of like welfare I guess. Generation after generation living off the "man" getting their monthly check...and when it comes time to be responsible for themselves they fall flat on their backs and whine for help (or beg forgiveness..whatever)....just look at most of the degenerates screaming about how their mailboxes got washed away during Katrina and how are they going to keep getting their checks, lol......sad.

Mental dependence on anything can be a bad things when not balanced with common sense, reason and logic I guess.

In my view, religion is a monthly welfare check for the weak minded.

 

[Live at the Witch Trials]

I used to believe that Religion either drew Fools or made Fools and that if it wasn't True then the Fools were all the more Foolish.

Nowadays I feel a little bit more enlightened to the ways of the Earth, Spirituality and my place in within it.

I dont subscribe to any Organized Religious groups. I went to a Catholic Boys School and was taught to Read and Write by Nuns and thrashed mercilessly by Monks.

I had the same Mother as Carrie as she used to take great delight in reading to me with a Sombre expression for many Hours the Book of Revelations by Candle light, that is before my Father had her Committed to a Mental institution but then he died after getting bitten by a Snake that he was Handling in Church.

Basically the thought of dying and thats your lot kind of sucks dosent it.

I know though from experience and this is no Joke when I have truly been Terrified and feared for my little Life I thought about Jesus Christ and gained some strength and my fear evaporated I Became Bold and pulled through. Its weird that as I didn't consider myself to be a Believer. I suppose its like putting on an old pair of Comfy Slippers.

The Best bit out of Christianity is to Treat Others as you Wish to be treat yourself. I try to do this but sometimes I fail because I'm Human.

 

[CapnG]

Basically the thought of dying and thats your lot kind of sucks dosent it.

Not really... because if you die and there's nothing afterwards then you won't care because there's NOTHING afterwards.

 

[Live at the Witch Trials]

Not really... because if you die and there's nothing afterwards then you won't care because there's NOTHING afterwards.

Yes but your not Vein are you !

And in any case I think it kind of sucks as I dont want to concieve of a Universe without me in it ! I have a Large Apetite....! Like Ghengis Kahn.

 

[CapnG]

Yes but your not Vein are you !

And in any case I think it kind of sucks as I dont want to concieve of a Universe without me in it ! I have a Large Apetite....! Like Ghengis Kahn.

I think you mean "vain"... and that's kinda my point: you'd be incapable of concieving of ANYTHING since you'd be DEAD.

 

[Anubis]

I chose "no" but I would have preferred "what difference does it make?". Obviously if there is a god (or gods) they have done nothing to curb human ignorance, starvation, pestilence and the countless wars waged in their name(s). Seeing that is the case, what difference would the existance of such being make in my life, and why should I really care that it existed in the first place?

 

[Live at the Witch Trials]

I think you mean "vain"... and that's kinda my point: you'd be incapable of concieving of ANYTHING since you'd be DEAD.

Yes Mr Grammar Nazi but I'm Talking about while I'm Alive. The Notion of Mortality to a Living Being Sucks for most of them.

 

[Drew UK]

Thanks - Live at the witch trials

Ulitmately what I am asking is, is Ritual Really a form of Control ?

I think we now need to elaborate on Power and Control - My definition of power is this .... "the ability to influence people"

There are 3 forms of power/control
Hard power - Military doctrine where you force people to do something.
Soft power - Propaganda, and teaching/notions of good free will - which brings people over to your ideas as they have the ability to relate to it.
and probably the most important -
Financial/Economic power - which I need to talk about at a later date.

So from your question - is ritual really a form of control - I would say - YES. They accept it, demonstrate it and support it.

If my manifesto to maintain healthy teeth and gums for my siblings - I would recommend that you brush your teeth on a regular basis - If you do this you either subscribe support to my manifesto or you do this anyway both are equally desirable and an endeavour to maintain control (perhaps as a parent?) - This is soft power - but it still weilds control.

I'm too tired to continue - but there are still myths to despell.

In particular Animism ?

 

[TClaeys]

I think it is interesting the way people have responded to this. A few comments.

Many people immediately took this as a question about some personal God. A personal God that somehow interacts with us. I don't have the faintest idea what kind of intelligence might hide behind the underpinnings of the universe/multiverse, but I'm fairly certain it isn't some personal Jesus. Lots of people think that :
God=mypersonal Igod. I don't believe that.

Some people began criticizing the need to believe. I don't have a need to believe and I almost wish I did. I think things would be easier if you could just become a believer and be spoonfed what kinds of things to believe. And how to act. But people are assured one thing: If they do the right things, then it gets to be even more about themselves. They get to live in heaven forever!! WooHoo. A strong reason to believe. (even though I don't) For all I know and have seen, it is literally ashes to ashes and dust to dust.

The word "believe" is loaded. To me it is only a word. A substitute for the word think, or reason, or "this is probably true". But to others it apparently means to "to be completely unreasonable" and "pull theories out of your ass". I'm done with my belief rant, but will submit if the poll said "think", there would have been no problem.

There are not enough options. I don't know or I don't care means either you have no opinion on the topic or are uninterested. Fine, move on to next topic I guess. And to some others I guess there are some ways of thinking about "god" or whatever you might label "it" that would not snugly fit with the choices provided.

There probably isn't any personal interactive god. There might not be any afterlife whatsoever. There might not have been some intelligence(good, evil, or benign) involved in the creation of this universe( the universe, not the Earth and the human species). But there might be something that was involved, or IS involved, in the function of the universe. It doesn' mean it has to be good. It doesn't mean we get to live forever. It doesn't mean that we somehow know what the entity's will is or can even fathom it. In other words, it doesn't mean anything about us. But it would mean that something was involved.

Thanks for the remarks.

 

[CapnG]

Yes Mr Grammar Nazi but I'm Talking about while I'm Alive.

Spelling is not grammar.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

Capn isn't a Nazi. He is anal, when it comes to spelling. But, really, lay off of the nazi spew, when it comes to someone who understands freedom of speech. To call Capn a Nazi is to call Oprah a poor white man.

 

[DamnDirtyApe]

I want a fifth option on the poll: I TAKE NO STAND EITHER WAY BECAUSE THE ENTIRE IDEA IS UNPROVEABLE, UNTESTABLE, AND UNKNOWEABLE.

I guess I'm athiest by default because I refuse to believe in a particular something which is far beyond my means and ability to evaluate. We really have no clue about the true metaphyical questions of the Universe (what is reality? why is there anything at all instead of nothingness? Is there a "meaning" to it all?)

Getting into any specfic explanations for reality such as a religion seems a bit premature at this point. I don't worry myself with what "infinity" really means or what it was like before I was born since there really is no answer to those questions. Likewise the question of higher powers/intelligences is purely speculative and unwarranted IMO.

I do find it odd that a person would reject the idea of UFOs or ghosts, based on lack of evidence, yet follow a religious doctrine. Surely if you follow Occam's Razor and general common sense, the intellectual leap to non-human life in the universe that has interacted with us is VASTLY smaller than the leap to an all powerful higher intelligence that exists beyond time and space and which manipulates the very cosmos according to its desires. Which is truly more likely?

 

[Aaron LeClair]

Start a new poll.

Unknowable? I know of many people who have encountered "God" and would disagree. It may be unknowable to you, but that doesn't mean it's unknowable to all. NDEs point away from there not being a God. Is it proof? Nope, but evidence. There's more evidence for God, than against it. By God I mean some intelligence that created this shit we call ourselves. God may have accidently done it though. What then of our questions?

 

[DamnDirtyApe]

Start a new poll.

Unknowable? I know of many people who have encountered "God" and would disagree. It may be unknowable to you, but that doesn't mean it's unknowable to all?

Well, yes that's the whole point. If there is no way for you to demonstrate it to me aside from asking me to believe it, then that is no different than any other assertion that is unfalsifable. There is no way to verify it outside of individual experience. And if no one else can verify it, then it's untestable and unproveable like I said in my initial response.

If I had a religious experience, then perhaps I might see it differently, or I might chalk it up to my brain chemistry (NDE) Same thing with seeing a ghost or a UFO.

So perhaps AGNOSTIC is a better term than outright atheist. I'm not going to actively believe in anything per se regarding a god until there is some evidence that speaks to me personally, beyond "intuition"

I see so many parallels between religious experiences and traditional paranormal ones. The whole thing reminds me of the end of the movie Contact, where Jodie Foster is trying to convince everyone of what happened.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

Well, yes that's the whole point. If there is no way for you to demonstrate it to me aside from asking me to believe it, then that is no different than any other assertion that is unfalsifable. There is no way to verify it outside of individual experience. And if no one else can verify it, then it's untestable and unproveable like I said in my initial response.

If I had a religious experience, then perhaps I might see it differently, or I might chalk it up to my brain chemistry (NDE) Same thing with seeing a ghost or a UFO.

So perhaps AGNOSTIC is a better term than outright atheist. I'm not going to actively believe in anything per se regarding a god until there is some evidence that speaks to me personally, beyond "intuition"

I see so many parallels between religious experiences and traditional paranormal ones. The whole thing reminds me of the end of the movie Contact, where Jodie Foster is trying to convince everyone of what happened.

Your first paragraph,. What person in this thread is asking you to believe in God? Or, using the fact that they believe it as evidence, or proof? You or I mis read. If it was me, I am truly sorry. If not, I'm sure someone will burn the straw man.

 

[TClaeys]

Well, yes that's the whole point. If there is no way for you to demonstrate it to me aside from asking me to believe it, then that is no different than any other assertion that is unfalsifable. There is no way to verify it outside of individual experience. And if no one else can verify it, then it's untestable and unproveable like I said in my initial response.


I'm not going to actively believe in anything per se regarding a god until there is some evidence that speaks to me personally, beyond "intuition"

Even if it is untestable and unprovable, either there IS something behind the universe or there ISN't. The fact that we can't verify it with our limited knowledge (and perhaps it couldn't be verified anyway) is irrelevant to the existence of some agent of creation.

And why is it that people have a hard time even entertaining such a concept if it doesn't revolve around them and have some personal connection to themselves?? I don't understand this notion that if there is a god then it MUST be concerned with humans, especially on a personal level. The conversation inevitably goes towards this ego-centric version of a interactive-personal god. Why?? Could it be that we are not important, but rather a small part of the whole picture. When I think about the cosmos and look at hubble pictures, I find this notion of people on Earth somehow being vastly important extremely vain. How could we possibly know what type of will or reasons such an intelligence might have for us or for the universe??

And BTW I think that the people that have experienced and "felt" God may be experiencing some sort of confirmation bias to a large degree. Or perhaps some self initiated delusion. We can make ourselves see the world however we want or however we desire. So the experience of having experienced god just doesn't persuade me really at all. It is more the meta-picture that intrigues me. Unprovable, yes. True? Well, ...interesting if true.

 

[Live at the Witch Trials]

Capn isn't a Nazi. He is anal, when it comes to spelling. But, really, lay off of the nazi spew, when it comes to someone who understands freedom of speech. To call Capn a Nazi is to call Oprah a poor white man.

I didnt mean that he was Literaly a Nazi. The comment was made Tongue in Cheek.

I hope I didnt offend him.

 

[DamnDirtyApe]

Your first paragraph,. What person in this thread is asking you to believe in God? Or, using the fact that they believe it as evidence, or proof? You or I mis read. If it was me, I am truly sorry. If not, I'm sure someone will burn the straw man.

Here is the poll question:

Do you believe an intelligent agent was involved in the creation of the universe?

You are asking people IF they believe, and my response was simply that the poll questions needed more options in my own case becuase my response is essentially: I can neither believe or disbelieve it because there is no way for me to make an informed decision IMO.

Thoughts of a diety are a non-issue in my daily life and world view because I feel that any ideas I might have, either pro or con, have no real reasons behind them. I feel that if I were to follow my own hunches, then that leads to the next step of "ok.. WHY do I believe my hunch is more than just a hunch" and that's where I get stopped. If I DID have a religious experience one day, then at least that would give me something to go on more concrete than a hunch.

When I used phrases like: "...no way for YOU to demonstrate it.." I didn't mean YOU specifically, I just meant "the reasons or arguments in favor of me personally believing it" Sort of like using the royal "we" I realize you aren't trying to convince or convert anyone. It's just meant to be a straightforward poll and the way I way framing my response might have been misleading.