Dr. Roger Leir

[Muadib]

Yea, I had a flashing vision in my mind of sending like 1K 'civilians' to get x-rays and see the proportion of people with implants. Hard to do in reality, but I'd be surprised if we saw the numbers reflect Leir's research. And it's not like regular people don't get x-rays for all sorts of stuff at non-ufo interested doctors, do implants just go in the bin without further ado?

It's hardly something an unknowing doctor would call the cops about, but if the number was significant, regular doctors should be asking questions by now about what these things are, imo.

Iow., I'm not convinced, though I can't refute it with my current insight.

No they definitely wouldn't call the cops but you would think if they encountered an object with the properties that Dr. Leir claims they have, it would at least raise some eyebrows, and once enough eyebrows were raised you would think someone, somewhere would say "Hey this thing I found in my patient has this coating on it with amazing properties" or something to that effect. It then follows that if there were millions or even thousands of such cases that it would get reported somewhere besides UFO literature. I remain unconvinced as well, but I also don't want to dismiss it entirely.

 

[Stagger Lee]

I can't imagine any doctor coming forward with claims of finding unusual objects in some of their patients- stating they suspect unearthly origins. I can't think of a better way to ruin ones professional career. Assuming there may be thousands of such devices among the general population(I don't much buy the millions theory) -I can see how these implants could go unnoticed, or the lack of flags being raised within the medical community.

 

[Muadib]

I can't imagine any doctor coming forward with claims of finding unusual objects in some of their patients- stating they suspect unearthly origins. I can't think of a better way to ruin ones professional career. Assuming there may be thousands of such devices among the general population(I don't much buy the millions theory) -I can see how these implants could go unnoticed, or the lack of flags being raised within the medical community.

There wouldn't be any need to speculate as to the origins of the objects, all they would have to say is that they found something that they didn't expect to find and that hasn't been previously documented in the medical literature. That alone would be enough to warrant further investigation and after the investigation documented the supposedly incredible properties of the object, I would think we would hear about it, especially if these objects turned up multiple times. Maybe I'm way off, but the fact that these objects are only being reported by people within the UFO community seems strange to me if they really are as prevalent as we're being led to believe they are.

 

[Stagger Lee]

"people within the ufo community" are the only one's looking for them, and the only one's daring enough to even broach the subject. I see your point, in that many such objects being discovered should at least be documented, somewhere, by someone not affliated with the UFO community.

 

[Jimi H.]

.. someone, somewhere would say "Hey this thing I found in my patient has this coating on it with amazing properties" or something to that effect. ..

Good point.

Leir described his own surprise when he encountered the objects for the first time. Is his team the only ones to be surprised? That can't be. Albeit, I'm no doctor, but many doctors are also interested in medical research and it's unthinkable that someone else wouldn't have scratched their heads when they fished it out.

 

[Jimi H.]

EDIT: I'm just repeating Muadib here, but anyways..

"people within the ufo community" are the only one's looking for them, and the only one's daring enough to even broach the subject. ..

But doctors outside the UFO circles would never consider that explanation. So, what they'd do was to contact some colleagues and ask: Have you ever seen anything behave like this, how did this happen? If reports started flowing, it would surface, it would naturally be discussed. There would be no stigma attached to it, because noone would think about the UFO-explanation. Why would they?

Doctors working with implants/transplants should be all over these things, if they ever came across them btw.

In fact, there's almost something 'free energy'-like to the story, namely the promise that some wonderful saving technology exists, something that could benefit humanity. Just an observation..

 

[Muadib]

Doctors working with implants/transplants should be all over these things, if they ever came across them btw.

In fact, there's almost something 'free energy'-like to the story, namely the promise that some wonderful saving technology exists, something that could benefit humanity. Just an observation..

Exactly, I read Leir's book "Alien Scalpel" a long time ago and I remember him discussing the implications. If I remember correctly, this coating enables the implant to be placed inside the body without triggering any of our normal immune system responses. Usually when a foreign body works its way under the skin, the response of the immune system is to try and push it out or destroy it, supposedly these implants get around that by the use of this special biological based coating that is so strong that he couldn't cut it with a surgical tool. If someone found something like that, it would be medically revolutionary if it could be studied and eventually reproduced, and as you've said nobody outside of the UFO community would think of the alien object angle, they would just be concerned with its amazing properties and how we might go about reproducing it. Finding new diseases and previously unknown aspects of biology are a surefire way to make a name for yourself in the medical field, something that exotic would be reported to someone. The fact that it doesn't seem as though anyone but those inside the UFO community are finding these things has to make you wonder, especially considering the Dr.'s estimates of the number of potential abductees. Still, even if he's wrong and it's only thousands, you still have to ask yourself why these things aren't turning up elsewhere, imo anyway.

 

[EricTheRed]

ufology wrote, "If I didn't already know UFOs are real..."

I'm completely on the fence relative to this question. I don't think there's any strong theoretical case against UFOs being of non-human origin, but given the hall of mirrors the field of ufology can be, I find it hard to squeeze the data into reliable conclusions either way. Could you possibly provide me with some details that might substantiate this strong claim? Did you have an experience yourself? Please understand that I ask this out of pure open-minded curiosity.

Regards,
E

 

[Jimi H.]

My two cents: if just one of the 'good' cases are true, someone/something 'unhuman' is at work imo. E.g. Rendlesham, Teheran, Collares. If you think you can safely discount all those and other 'best case' stuff, then there is no reason for a non-human explanation. I can't, though I can't call them positive proof either. That's the enigma, the lure, the wabbit hole..

But the Leir case is different and unusual because there's plenty of hard evidence! But does it hold up?

 

[EricTheRed]

Well, if just one of the 'good' cases are true, someone 'unhuman' is at work imo. E.g. Rendlesham, Teheran, Collares etc. If you think you can safely discount all those, then there is no reason for a non-human explanation. I can't, though I can't call them positive proof either. That's the enigma, the lure, the wabbit hole..

Agreed. And, to lay more of my cards on the table, I don't discount those cases either. Perhaps like you, they're among the information sets that made me say, "Wha...!? Could there be something to this after all?" And I've been looking ever since.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

That's what I thought too, but when I asked Leir how many degrees above the horizon the object appeared, he said "about 70." That doesn't sound like a boat on the horizon to me (?)

Perhaps he got it the wrong way round, and was giving the angle from vertical? Which would make it 20 degrees off the horizon?
Just a thought.
I have enjoyed the show so far, am listening to it now and I always like Dr Leir's appearances.

Dr Leir has related a story about sitting next to a girl who apparently didn't know who he was (this at UFO convention) and when he told her he was involved in implant removal, she opened a folder and ran her finger down the index page until she reached 'implants'. Debunking by numbers! If you are going to represent a sceptical society etc that's fine, but to me having a pre-prepared folder of already-worked-out answers for everything just shows this woman wasn't thinking on her own, but was prepared to spout the debunking work done by others. Get a brain woman.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

My two cents: if just one of the 'good' cases are true, someone/something 'unhuman' is at work imo. E.g. Rendlesham, Teheran, Collares. If you think you can safely discount all those and other 'best case' stuff, then there is no reason for a non-human explanation. I can't, though I can't call them positive proof either. That's the enigma, the lure, the wabbit hole..

But the Leir case is different and unusual because there's plenty of hard evidence! But does it hold up?

I like that Dr Leir merely removes objects from feet. He doesn't claim any other expertise but we can be assured that when it comes to foot surgery, he knows what he's talking about. We have to remember it's quality, respected labs such as Los Alamos that are doing the analysis on the objects removed, and they are given the items blind, so there are no pre-conceived notions on their part.

I find it amazing that the results seem to be saying that wherever these objects are being manufactured (and never mind how they got into people's body's), the material used is not from this planet, or if it was, it was from a meteor fragment. Which means if this was some hoax, someone has had to collect a meteor fragment (not easy to find) or, paid for some material from such a fragment, which I believe is very costly. And there is the actual manufacturing of the actual objects? Who could make such things, if anyone human was responsible?
Add to all that the insertion of the object - doesn't Dr Leir state that he cannot see any scar etc associated with a method (route) of entry for the objects?

For all the craziness in this field, one has to take seriously this surgery and subsequent analysis of the removed items.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Wasn't that Turkish UFO video dismissed as 100% hoax - a large boat's upper deck area?

I'm not saying that was a real UFO or not but that particular explanation doesn't have much going for it either. I'm sure on the video, nearing sunrise, you can see that the object is not on the water's surface.

 

[Burnt State]

I'm not saying that was a real UFO or not but that particular explanation doesn't have much going for it either. I'm sure on the video, nearing sunrise, you can see that the object is not on the water's surface.

I think if you look through the thorough link I posted you can see for yourself how stunningly similar the boomerang object is to the upper deck area complete wih a central window space for people to look through and steer their ship - no greys here, just human captain and navigator.

Leir made a point of talking about how windy it was and that's why the camera is shaking so much on its tripod and even the operator makes a point of saying, "don't do this to me tripod." B.S.! If you listen to the audio it is very clear, both wave sound and voice are very clear and there is no wind noise at all. Even with a wind sock or baffle on you can not eliminate the sound of a wind that would have to be powerful enough to shake the operator's camera and pod. Whenever you see a video shaking this much on a pod you have to know someone is trying to create the illusion of motion.

I'm not sure which sunrise material you are talking about, unless it's the 6 fixed orange lights hovering just above the horizon which look attached and patterned, probably something stationary in the water. This video, along with Leir's strange comments about how no one has seen the complete footage and how he took it down, combined with Jamie Maussan's participation in this video doesn't just bring the video into question, but tells me that everything else Leir is spinning is also just snake oil. ufology has it right; this is quack file material and it should be thrown out. Leir's alien scalpel sounds like pure fabrication. As Muadib pointed out, if these implants were revolutionary and otherworldly, then Leir should be at the vanguard of much bigger innovations in health research and not asking for donations on his website, or having Streiber do the same for him.

Instead I feel that this is simply the case of being blinded by science. There are many fancy graphs on his website. I don't see proof of anything alien there except his say so. Do any of them mean anything?

The more you dig into Ufology the more you see collusion and profiteering attempts. I wish someone would put together a flow chart of all the relationships, financial and otherwise alongside proven UFO hoaxes just so that the noise could be dismissed altogether for sake of better signal.

 

[Secretbanana]

I found Dr. Leirs claims about the Arab spring, somehow being a result of alien intervention, to be dubious and quite naive.
(Since the Arab spring, for example, there has been numerous sexual assaults on women in Cairos Tahrir Square. Sexual assaults in all of Cairo has also increased drastically in the last two years. Does the good Dr. Leir have an explanation for this? Has the Alien augmentation he argues for also somehow turned on some "rape-gene" of sorts?)

And kids being good with technology is also caused by alien influence? I'd argue that it's quite normal to expect children to quickly pick up skills in a phenomenon they grew up with. Especially when billions of dollars and man hours have been invested in making the technology as intuitive and user friendly as possible.

But regarding his implants, did he specify what sort of analysis has been done on them, beyond X-rays?
It would be interesting to see what the results would be, if you put the "implants" under an electron microscope, which is quite affordable these days. (Chipworks is an example of a company that provide these kinds of services privately and affordable.)

It could also provide evidence as to whether these implants really are technological in nature, and might indicate what kind of technology it is...

 

[Randall]

... I wish someone would put together a flow chart of all the relationships, financial and otherwise alongside proven UFO hoaxes just so that the noise could be dismissed altogether for sake of better signal.

A connections/flow chart of who's who in ufology is an idea I had kicking around for years. Apparently there was something similar a number of years back that was based on some kind of database application. Unfortunately I don't recall who had put it together, and it's now no longer on the Internet. However a fancy database app isn't really necessary. If someone were to take the time to do some quality info gathering it would reduce the noise a lot. I suspect it would also reveal some interesting relationships between the officials, groups, disinfo agents, hoaxers, independent ufologists, and the profiteers. While I was searching Google to see if anyone had done anything like this yet, I ran across this website ... not exactly what I was thinking, but here's the link: About | UAP Reporting

 

[Jimi H.]

Perhaps he got it the wrong way round, and was giving the angle from vertical? Which would make it 20 degrees off the horizon?

Just a thought.
...

There are some massive threads about this over on ATS with numerous picture and video analysis.

I'm surprised this case has been mentioned over and over on the Paracast, it's been thoroughly debunked for quite a while imo.

 

[Jimi H.]

I like that Dr Leir merely removes objects from feet. He doesn't claim any other expertise but we can be assured that when it comes to foot surgery, he knows what he's talking about. ....

It seems he was charged with malpractice and wasn't allowed to operate for several years. Check this interview with Derrel Sims, a former partner who suggests that Leir is in it for fame/money, and claims that objects disappeared on Leir's watch, at about 17 minutes and on:

June 3, 2007 — Derrel W. Sims and Tracie Austin-Peters | The Paracast — The Gold Standard of Paranormal Radio

I don't know anything about this Sims guy, so I can't say how credible his info is.

We have to remember it's quality, respected labs such as Los Alamos that are doing the analysis on the objects removed, and they are given the items blind, so there are no pre-conceived notions on their part....

We didn't hear too much about the specifics. I'd love to hear an interview with those Los Alamos guys or read a statement from them. Who are they, have they made public statements?
Likewise, I'd love to hear interview with doctors who came into contact with the miracle implants. What are their comments?

Leir's website looks colorful and the documentation section is, well, basically laughable. Anticlimactic. E.g. a spectrometry reading with no further lab comments ain't gonna cut it considering the claims he put forth: Research | Alien Scalpel

I'm going to say thumbs down. I'm prepared to look at again if there is more credible documentation but at this point it's just not convincing, for a variety of reasons.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

He loves to throw around science terms in order to confuse the layman and sound as though he has a scientific basis for his claims. No one is being abducted by aliens.

 

[Randall]

He loves to throw around science terms in order to confuse the layman and sound as though he has a scientific basis for his claims. No one is being abducted by aliens.

Most people who study the work at least come away with the impression that something strange is going on, and without sufficient evidence that the accounts are all fabricated ( intentionally or otherwise ), it seems rather presumptuous to make such an arbitrary claim ( No one is being abducted by aliens ). As for Leir and his technobabble ... I've already stated my opinion on that.