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Dr. Roger Leir

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All the skeptics actually made a lot of good points about this show.

Where are other doctors to confirm? I wouldn't expect there to be a lot of them, but at least a handful.

Having friends that are doctors, scientists, academics, & engineers, I know that the respect of their peers is
paramount to them. Factor in issues of "publish or perish", job security, potential ridicule, & tenure, and it's
easy to see why there aren't a lot of doctors coming forward if they do find something. But there should be some.

And who's to say that it's "alien", whatever the hell that means? This reflexive labeling of these phenomena
has got to stop. Maybe it's alien, maybe it's a government experiment, maybe it's something left in post-surgery (happens),
maybe it's calcified feces (happens). Who knows?

Debunking a youtube video? seriously? Get the original footage, and do an analysis. then you can consider it officially debunked.
Not to say that it isn't fake.

You ever notice that even with the "legit" video, the majority of it is never clear? The conditions are never good?

Whatever the real phenomena is, it's basically screwing with people. Know when you're being played. And stop falling for it.
They're like kids making prank calls ("is there a Les Bean here?").

Most of this video "evidence" should be ignored. After Effects is a hell of a program.

Dr. Leir has supposed gross physical evidence. He needs other peers to come forward to verify & replicate his findings.
 
mike said:
Ive never had a problem with the millions of (or even universal as leer claims) abductions scenario.

It may not make sense via "inhouse" filters ie medical exams.
But there are scenarios where it does

The DNA storage library scenario is one where millions of "access" events might make sense

Then there is my post biological parallel population idea.
ie: we have a post biological population, that uses linear time earth as a resource centre.
It grows new minds, and serves as a repository for the raw DNA used to created the cloned biovessels for the uploaded minds, once they step up to the next level of existance.

When your optimised clone biovessel wears out, you simply pop back downtime to a point in your native biological phase, abduct youself and take what material you need for your next clone.
Rinse and repeat for eternal existance.



Hamlet by William Shakespeare: Act 1. Scene V
Click to expand...

Dude, that's a movie or TV show. Copyright, and trademark that puppy, write a story bible, & screenplay up.

You could sell it at MIPCOM.

And always remember, you want gross revenues, never net. Net is fantasy :D
 
Ok, I'm going to try to look at this as if it's a genuine hoax and spin a bit of speculative story. So sue me! I'm a bit fascinated by the story from a ufological pov., because if it's a hoax it's pretty advanced. Imposssible? Inconceiveable? No.

The lure of the hoax is that we are dealing with exotic tech that could potentially be a boon for any investor willing to go into it.

- Also, the lure of legendary UFO-fame, and even general fame and accolades. Yes, with sufficent evidence, many scientists would looove to get their hands on it, trust me.

The method of the hoax:

- Spend fifty or a hundred bucks on a meteorite, or go pick one up for yourself. Carve small 'implants', chemically polish to avoid tool marks. Perhaps even melt the meteorite down first, and do real metalcasting.

- Make mysterious claims about 'biological cocoon' and 'radio signals'.

We need to know:

- Is the implant-material identical to known meteorites on Earth? (That's what Leir claims.)
- Also, is it known from one of the rare expensive ones, or one of the common ones (that would be my guess..)?
- The age of the most likely meteorite candidate

Having done that, we might find that the age of similar meteorites is identical to Leir's estimation of the material in the implants. THIS is how he came to know it's age, and be so confident about it. Hence reports can't say he's wrong concerning neither material nor 'calculated' age. And this is why it doesn't matter that his funky scientific theories are funky, - that's not how he actually knows it's age. But trying to follow his funky theories distracts you from the fact that he knew the age already, because he used a real meteorite!

Finally, the stated fact that meteorites contain certain elements does not mean that an alien artifact would contain the exact same ratio of components. In fact, that wouldn't make sense to me. I mean, I imagine they would refine their ore.
So, he needs to rely on the type of isotopes to back his theory, - but those are simply the isotopes found in the meteor from where the 'implants' were produced, so that's already taken care of.
 
nameless said:
...again this "I think therefore Aliens" hypothesis is detrimental. Lets say these implants are real and lets view them within Dr Leir's paradigm. How can we activate the AIs? Have they been affected within the host? What correlation has been made if any between patients? What questioning has been made to the patients and was it loaded? Its sounds like Dr Leir is the best and worst person to find these objects as he has taken the data i.e."a mysterious object" and then let his 50s sic-fi imagination run wild with it. If these items are real then they need to be passed on to proper research scientists and agencies who are best able to investigate these devices.

We can suppose thousands or millions of people are being tagged for genetic marking and experimentation. We try to fill in the gaps by clutching at an analogical experience in this case animal husbandry. Dr Leir combines this with witness statements that may be tainted, that have some relevance with an abduction type scenario. Whats to say that the abduction scenario is an effect of the implant, i.e.-The implant makes you have an out of this world experience to see how you react? Whats to say that AI is in fact an unobtrusive transmitter for gauging intrinsic human experience, decision making, belief systems, psi abilities which may be puzzling or an antitheses to an outside observer as opposed to genetic marking or any other reason you care to come up with? We can start supposing all kinds of crazy shit. Yet the Dr is quite adamant its aliens, and its to do with genes and something to do with young people, twitter feeds and greys.

Maybe the Greys are us from the future, where we have become these non de-script, sun damaged, a-sexual, cave dwelling, soulless, flaccid, telepathic automatons and they've come back to see where it all went wrong, and after much soil sampling, abducting and cow carving they're pretty sure its something to do with Simon Cowell, Bisphenol-A and milk.
Click to expand...


I'm with you in that it could only be a 'good' thing for bona-fide mainstream scientists, unconnected with ufology, to be involved in the analysis of whatever these objects are.

But isn't that the whole catch-22 with the ufo topic? 'Mainstream' science doesn't want to touch the subject because it is seen as the realm of nutjobs, and the only way for that to change would be for respected scientists to openly investigate and publish. But they won't do that cos.......it goes round in circles!!

I suppose I would be interested in even just finding out some very simple basic facts about these objects - and these are non-ufo facts that any surgeon etc could verify:

1. Are any of these objects unusual in placement, method of entry? I.e objects can certainly migrate in the body etc but you have to wonder how they are getting to where they are initially - how did the get under the skin when it is reported there are no scars etc or injury points? (this question itself is weird but nothing necessarily ufoish so there should be no reason not to be able to get medical opinions - blind if necessary- to establish firstly is there something strange about having these metal objects there in hands and feet etc)

2. Do they indeed emit EM radiation? (these deep-space comms freqs Leir mentioned) There should be a no-question, no-hassle way to prove this before any surgery takes place, again by people not involved in Ufology (but again how do you get people involved who aren't interested? Money? Yip but who's money? Yours? Mine?

3. I would like to see outside confirmation about this lack of immune response by the body - as mentioned in the email the Black Vault has, such technology could prove absolutely monumental in human health science. Everyone knows we can transplant this and that but what we cannot control without heavy-duty drugs is the body's rejection of transplanted matter. I'm sure anyone who lives on these meds will testify that they enable a life but not the same quality of life.
 
Dwight Ward said:
Alien implants in turkeys? I can solve this one. Those are probably just popup thermometers.

Seriously though, I discounted the abduction phenomenum as delusional until the sheer weight of witness evidence tipped some internal intuitive scale. I don't think that many people can be liars or that they could be mentally ill in such identical fashion. I'm in the 'something is happening but I don't know what' school now.
Click to expand...

I think what you've said strikes a chord with many of us, and not just about abductions but various aspects of the whole UFO topic just seem a bit too weird, but very heavily reported.

I mean perhaps the abduction phenomena is not at all what it seems but is part of what I personally more and more think of as the whole topic being the highest of the strangest.
Something is going on but I don't have a scooby-doo (clue) what?
 
Dwight Ward said:
Seriously though, I discounted the abduction phenomenum as delusional until the sheer weight of witness evidence tipped some internal intuitive scale. I don't think that many people can be liars or that they could be mentally ill in such identical fashion. I'm in the 'something is happening but I don't know what' school now.
Click to expand...

That depends on what you call 'that many'. If stats are generated by rather loose investigations of what could be happening in the population then the numbers might not be that accurate or large at all. It's not really a question of madness, though there are definitely some liars out there. Much of the Abductee Phenomenon seems to be more about $$$ than a legtimate sub-genre of human experience.

Hallucinations, sleep paralysis, personal delusion due to other past traumas are all just as likely candidates for the amount of the populous that claims abduction, implantation and hybridization. While some rare, individual narratives are highly compelling, most are mired in construction, confabulation and cult like adoration.

In the past chunks of the population claimed they were visited by the devil in the midde the night, taken to fairy land and now it's aliens. Perhaps familiar mythologies just get reinvented?
 
Burnt State said:
That depends on what you call 'that many'. If stats are generated by rather loose investigations of what could be happening in the population then the numbers might not be that accurate or large at all. It's not really a question of madness, though there are definitely some liars out there. Much of the Abductee Phenomenon seems to be more about $$$ than a legtimate sub-genre of human experience.

Hallucinations, sleep paralysis, personal delusion due to other past traumas are all just as likely candidates for the amount of the populous that claims abduction, implantation and hybridization. While some rare, individual narratives are highly compelling, most are mired in construction, confabulation and cult like adoration.

In the past chunks of the population claimed they were visited by the devil in the midde the night, taken to fairy land and now it's aliens. Perhaps familiar mythologies just get reinvented?
Click to expand...


Whenever I think to myself that there couldn't be anything to the alien abduction thing, I think of a case like the Ariel, Zimbabwe case - no abductions, but if it's true, then I don't see why abductions couldn't be taking place, they aren't really any weirder than 'genuine' ufo's surely? (Don't call Shirley!)
 
And we always have to keep in mind that these are the events we hear about. Most of them we don't.
Most people don't want to go through the giggle factor gauntlet.

I've had family & friends, after ribbing me for what I'm involved in, take me over to the side, and in
all seriousness, tell me about strange events that have happened to them. Everything from UFO sightings,
OBEs, entity encounters, etc. When I ask them why they haven't said anything to anyone, the typical
response is "F@#% that! No one's going to make fun of me, or put me in the funny farm!
You're into all that weird s@#%. What the f@#% was that I (saw, experienced, etc.)?"

Vallee did a very thorough analysis of sighting reports in "Dimensions". He showed very clearly that
there are way more of these things showing up than anyone realizes. It's one of the reasons he dismisses
the ETH.

They're definitely more "abductions" occurring than are reported. As far as what they are, and why they're occurring?
As with a lot of this stuff, it's a number of different possibilities, none of which are necessarily separate from the other.
Government and/or corporate experimentation, mass psychosis, hoaxing, actual ETs, thought forms (aka schema, elementars, or tulpas),
multidimensional entities, one of those "archetypal interventions" Jung discussed in books like "Aion". Take your pick.

Are there thousands, tens of thousands, millions ? Who knows? The money, resources, and pull to deduce these unknowns isn't going to come
from the paranormal community. All we can do is speculate. Wonderfully insightful speculation from the folks on this forum. But speculation nonetheless.
 
goggsmackay said:
Whenever I think to myself that there couldn't be anything to the alien abduction thing, I think of a case like the Ariel, Zimbabwe case - no abductions, but if it's true, then I don't see why abductions couldn't be taking place, they aren't really any weirder than 'genuine' ufo's surely? (Don't call Shirley!)
Click to expand...

I've seen what I would clearly define as two saucer shaped craft hovering less than 100 meters overhead in a clear night sky with lights and all, yet I still cannot make the leap to alien abduction as real, as in aliens floating people out the room, into the craft and examinations follow. Even Betty and Barney's famous tale is just a very suspicious and weird tale. In my mind, the meeting with ET is just simply without any real proof, just great narratives, and perhaps experiences we don't yet understand.

These mass witness cases are very compelling, but where are the mass witnesses of AP? All that is left is the narrative, some hypnosis induced details and a mark on skin, blood on sheets etc. None of this adds up to anything.

So I don't deny that what we call AP is happening, but what it is, outside of familiar anomalous human experiences, I am not able to say. Given that the human brain is a finite event, it seems more likely that we are just sharing in things more akin to cultural folklore than ET probing us.
 
Burnt State said:
..
So I don't deny that what we call AP is happening, but what it is, outside of familiar anomalous human experiences, I am not able to say. Given that the human brain is a finite event, it seems more likely that we are just sharing in things more akin to cultural folklore than ET probing us.
Click to expand...
At least, it's clear that there's a cultural aspect to it. E.g. you basically never hear about abductions outside the U.S. or South America. Do aliens only abduct certain nationalities? Or is it that people with more traditional religious sentiments are more likely to ignore psychology and blame the 'devils' or 'aliens'? I think so.

Once in a while I'll go over on the ATS forum, and it's filled with attention-starved people for whom an abduction experience seems like an initiation rite, like a passport to woo-woo stardom. It's quite transparent. I've noticed that the 'abductees' are virtually never interesting in hearing suggestions on how to stop it from happening. They like to bask in their 'abductee' glory, they feel special.

It's wrong to generalize, but in this case, the sociological markers are just way stronger than anything else.
 
As far as Valley's dismissing the idea of ETH, because of the mutlitude of sightings- keep in mind how many cases we have of saucers crashing into/out of the oceans. I believe this planet has more area's that humans cannot access with our limited technology. Ivan T Sanderson wrote an excellent log of ocean sightings dating back hundreds of years through captain's logs. Also, I recently looked into that Kelly Cahill(?) case in Australia- very interesting case, considering multiple witnesses in two seperate vehicles, all describing the same detailed encounter. Really, how hard would it be for an advanced ET to set up bases in and around our planet in places we can not possibly explore.
 
Vallee's first initiation into the whole thing was an observation of an unknown object in orbit, and hearing about many similar objects. So, I'm surprised if he abandoned the ETH. I think the ETH is pretty good, but I agree with Stagger Lee that they may have been here for while.

Here's why I'm quite sceptical of non-ETH solutions to flying physical objects: Where are their factories, where are their mines? How can they develop such incredible tech without leaving traces on Earth? I can't make it fit.

But maybe different phenomena are of different origins, and whatever weird shit has happened at Skinwalker may be totally different from e.g. the physical craft.
 
Jimi H. said:
Vallee's first initiation into the whole thing was an observation of an unknown object in orbit, and hearing about many similar objects. So, I'm surprised if he abandoned the ETH. I think the ETH is pretty good, but I agree with Stagger Lee that they may have been here for while.

Here's why I'm quite sceptical of non-ETH solutions to flying physical objects: Where are their factories, where are their mines? How can they develop such incredible tech without leaving traces on Earth? I can't make it fit.

But maybe different phenomena are of different origins, and whatever weird shit has happened at Skinwalker may be totally different from e.g. the physical craft.
Click to expand...

I for some time favored a non-eth answer mostly because of the high strangeness factors of some cases and liked the idea that they were part of the same phenomena but after reading some of the ideas posted by others, i'm leaning away from that now. not so much because they may indeed be seperate phenomena but because the high strangeness accounts may be deliberate manipulations by et.

Having said all that to be et or not to be et, it may just come down to semantics. Whatever forces may be at play here, they have been here for so long and given some of their reported acts ( monitoring and manipulating nuclear weapons) it would appear they are integrated with us so that maybe our mutual interests are intertwined. I don't think whatever race this is they are constantly going back to their home systems filing reports and coming back they are probably more localized.

I guess what I'm saying is how long does it take before a journeying race establishes a new colony or settlement and loses it's old identity and becomes more sympathetic to its new digs. They could have been here so long they could rightly consider fellow beings of earth much as we accept that our fauna hold that same title.
 
Secretbanana said:
And kids being good with technology is also caused by alien influence? I'd argue that it's quite normal to expect children to quickly pick up skills in a phenomenon they grew up with. Especially when billions of dollars and man hours have been invested in making the technology as intuitive and user friendly as possible.
Click to expand...

Given Tablets but No Teachers, Ethiopian Children Teach Themselves

Let's be clear that I'm no ascribing alien intervention here —but it's still pretty darn fascinating ;)
 
Jimi H. said:
Here's why I'm quite sceptical of non-ETH solutions to flying physical objects: Where are their factories, where are their mines? How can they develop such incredible tech without leaving traces on Earth? I can't make it fit.
Click to expand...

4D printing and programmable matter




We're already looking for ways to produce objects without the need of massive infrastructures. I cannot even imagine what an (allegedly) more advanced civilization could do.
 
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