Dr. Roger Leir

[red_pill_junkie]

That's a great way of making sure people stay informed about nonsense like the stuff Leir talks about. The internet makes it much easier now to point out how ridiculous Leir is.

But then all they're doing is proselytizing the version of things that suit their preferences. They haven't really investigated these matters for themselves, they are only parroting the 'party-line' because they trust the people who wrote those explanations did their homework.

...But what if they didn't?

 

[red_pill_junkie]

Might be relevant to the discussion:

Man Wriggles Rat's Tail Using Only His Thoughts

By linking the brains of a human and a rat, scientists have now helped a man wiggle a rodent's tail using only the man's thoughts.
These new findings are the first case of a brain-to-brain interface between species, and the first example of a noninvasive brain-to-brain interface, researchers added.

With regards to the controversial subject of alien implants, why assume (*IF* they are real) that they're only used as some sort of monitoring/relay sensor? Why not consider the possibility that they can also be used to control some aspects of the test subject's physiology... or maybe even its behavior?

 

[mike]

Excellent link, added to my list

Its quite logical to expect any species that has developed the tech to reverse engineer and recreate the substrate that carrys their own conciousness, would be able to apply that knowledge to another species.

 

[Jimi H.]

Might be relevant to the discussion:



Man Wriggles Rat's Tail Using Only His Thoughts
...

Truth is, of course, that the headline is false. He does not wiggle the rats tail with his thoughts.

He has a machine that electrically responds to his activating certain centers in his brain, centers we have been aware of for awhile. In turn, electrical signals are sent to a specific center in the rats brain. Thus the 'thoughts' of the sender are not analogous to the 'thoughts' of the rat's brain responding to the electrical signal, thus he is not using 'only his thoughts'.

Point is: It's not PSY, it's basically like a doctor testing for a knee-jerk response.

I know, it's all evident, but I like to point it out.

Albeit, I admit it's still rather creepy..

 

[Bulk]

Speaking of implants, I read that Charles Hickson of Pascagoula fame (1973), showed a reporter x-rays of a metallic object behind his right eye. I wonder if an autopsy was done to extract the object.

Clarion Ledger Article on Hickson/Parker-Pascagoula, Mississippi 1973-UFO Casebook Files

I've read Leir's book, The Aliens and the Scalpel, second edition. In it he describes funding received from Robert Bigelow, for performing the first three surgeries. The removed implants were sent to some of the best labs in the country and the Bigelow organization were to keep the first three. Sixteen removals have been done so far. Some of the resulting data can be found on his site in PDF format. The implants were sent to the labs as 'blind' specimens, labelled simply as object removed from tissue, with no other added information, according to the book.

Research | Alien Scalpel

My opinion is that these nano-objects are grown layer upon layer rather than 'manufactured' as we understand manufacturing processes, perhaps something akin to silicon chips, except as 3D objects rather than 2D chips.

3D printers using plastics are being used today to 'print' 3D objects, I saw an entire bicycle made by a 3D printer online, including ball-bearings in situ. There's video of a person riding it.

Now, miniaturize the printer by a dozen or so orders of magnitude, engineer it so that you can 'print' with any element or isotope as its 'ink', toss in some as-yet-unknown method of highly magnetizing amorphous meteoric iron, season with a sprinkle of other exotic properties to prevent the body from rejecting it or encysting it, include circuitry to connect to nerves in the patient, add something like a crystal radio to broadcast the data -- and voila! -- implants-r-us.

In regards to the radio frequencies, my opinion is that it's not meant to broadcast to the stars or even to deep space, but rather to bases right here on our planet, or possibly our moon.

I do wish Leir would refer the light-speed and photon details to scientist whose field of expertise it is.

Bulk

 

[Burnt State]

I've read Leir's book, The Aliens and the Scalpel, second edition. In it he describes funding received from Robert Bigelow, for performing the first three surgeries. The removed implants were sent to some of the best labs in the country and the Bigelow organization were to keep the first three. Sixteen removals have been done so far. Some of the resulting data can be found on his site in PDF format. The implants were sent to the labs as 'blind' specimens, labelled simply as object removed from tissue, with no other added information, according to the book.

Research | Alien Scalpel

My opinion is that these nano-objects are grown layer upon layer rather than 'manufactured' as we understand manufacturing processes, perhaps something akin to silicon chips, except as 3D objects rather than 2D chips.

Before we start talking about signals being beamed to bases, or 3d nano printing shouldn't we establish whether Leir is on to anything meaningful or not first? Given his support for the hoaxed Turkey video and the fact that his website and presentation work aims to blind the audience with science as opposed to presenting something tangible I think he's just blowing in the implant wind.

He strikes me as someone who is not adding anything credible to the field of Ufology, just obfuscating it. Stanford is also in this position. While they have creative ideas about what ET might be up to there's nothing proven yet.

If implants had any realistic merit then there would be much more of a firestorm over them. These odd bits of matter found intertwined in our bodies, something that bodies seem to do quite naturally with organic and inorganic objects, have yet to be identified as off world objects.

As soon as I hear people talking about implants travelling down their arms, or being sneezed out, I get very suspicious and it makes me doubt the abduction phenomenon even more.

 

[Bulk]

I do wish he'd stick to his field of expertise.

Whatever they are, the implants have been carefully analyzed (blind) by the best labs in the country. We know how to make amorphous iron (iron without magnetic domains), but we don't know how to make highly magnetic amorphous iron. The isotopic ratios of several of the metals including u238 are not found here naturally, nor within meteorites. The implants can be categorized in about three similar groups in terms of size, shape, location in the body and elemental isotopic ratios. The one taken from the wrist is different.

Go to the Research | Alien Scalpel link above and take a look at the PDFs there (like the Ron Noel Implant) . Take a look at the list of elements in these implants, the carbon nanotube structures speculated to be the 'electronics' of the device, the coating around the objects which prevents the body from rejecting it (no immune response) , the proprioceptor nerve bundles connecting to the implant.

The object could not be cut by surgical means or wire cutters. Nor could a machine shop cut through it, stating that it was the hardest material they'd ever seen, based on the Rockwell hardness scale. Finally it was taken to a laser shop where it was cut using a high-power, pulsed laser.

Now if there was only one of these oddities present, say the coating preventing immune response, that would be ground-breaking enough, leading to incredible advances using metals for hip replacements etc., even organ transplants perhaps.

The more I think about it I'm beginning to entertain the idea that these things may be alive in some way not obvious to us. A kind of symbiotic link to the 'other', if you will. After all, where do we draw the line as to what is alive and what isn't? Are viruses alive? How about parts of viruses? Is DNA and RNA alive? How about the individual components of a cell, like centrosomes, centrioles, ribosomes, mitochondria, endoplasmic reticulum? There is some thought that each of these may have been assimilated by proto-cells early on, and once inside the cell, a give and take process (symbiosis) allowed each to survive and the whole cell to survive more efficiently and reproduce better.

Is a rock alive, does it have consciousness? Ask one and see.

Bulk

 

[Burnt State]

I do wish he'd stick to his field of expertise.

Whatever they are, the implants have been carefully analyzed (blind) by the best labs in the country. We know how to make amorphous iron (iron without magnetic domains), but we don't know how to make highly magnetic amorphous iron. The isotopic ratios of several of the metals including u238 are not found here naturally, nor within meteorites. The implants can be categorized in about three similar groups in terms of size, shape, location in the body and elemental isotopic ratios. The one taken from the wrist is different.

Go to the Research | Alien Scalpel link above and take a look at the PDFs there (like the Ron Noel Implant) . Take a look at the list of elements in these implants, the carbon nanotube structures speculated to be the 'electronics' of the device, the coating around the objects which prevents the body from rejecting it (no immune response) , the proprioceptor nerve bundles connecting to the implant.

So as I said before, most of what Leir does is play with science using lots of big fancy words and say that these things resemble carbon nanotubes, or are elements that appear in meteorites. It's all just a giant snow job of the public, blinding them with science.

Aren't iron alloy magnets something we've been making for quite some time? Define highly magnetic? How are these objects that surprising? The list of the elements appear to be all those found in the human body. I read both reports and I don't see anything special there. Wild speculation about various elements also found in meteorites is pure supposition. His mass spectrometry is probably more than suspect given that what he's using is not the best science has to offer. 'Best' is a word advertisers use when they're not comparing their product to any other better product. Leir's isotopic ratios are skewed for a reason:

Multiple collector - inductively coupled plasma - mass spectrometry (MC-ICP-MS)
An MC-ICP-MS instrument is a multiple collector mass spectrometer with a plasma source. MC-ICP-MS was developed to improve the precision achievable by ICP-MS during isotope-ratio measurements. Conventional ICP-MS analysis uses a quadrupole analyser, which only allows single-collector analysis. Due to the inherent instability of the plasma, this limits the precision of ICP-MS with a quadrupole analyzer to around 1%, which is insufficient for most radiogenic isotope systems.

U238 is the most common type of uranium found on earth. As for CNT's, these are very common in the delivery system of various medical treatments. These thIngs are not implants but probably just naturally occurring objects in the body. The whole 'nerve bundle', 'couldn't be cut with a scalpel', 'no immune system reaction' thing is more rhetoric. CNT's are used because the body does not react to them. There's nothing 'Extraterrestrial' I can see in these reports - just a bunch of impressive looking graphs. Nothing but a snake oil sales job for those not looking past Oz's curtain.

 

[Bulk]

So you think these are man-made objects, or you think these occur naturally in the body?

Your point on the ICP-MS would be well taken if we were dealing with half-lives and daughter isotopes and their ratios, but these implants don't seem to have been in the body long enough to have decayed appreciably, and we have no way of knowing when or how they were 'manufactured'. In the Noel case lead was 4.9 ppm; thorium and uranium were not detected, if I read the chart right. But I agree that a state-of-the-art lab should have the latest testing equipment.

It is strange that in the isotopic analysis section, there's the statement, 'The raw ICP-MS data from which the isotopic ratios of the sample could be calculated are not presently
available.'

There's been 16 operations, Id like to see the results from the others.

Bulk

 

[Burnt State]

I think these are naturally occurring objects that form for a myriad of reasons, perhaps to do with long term medication histories but the elementals that he is reporting seem to be fairly reflective of and proportional to actual body chemistry. I don't think he should have been allowed to milk his science schtick for as long as he has. His data is not that impressive and he makes some major leaps to suggest that these objects are a)implants and b) that they come from outer space.

I remember when I first heard him on the Paracast and was very impressed with his babble. But then I'm not a doctor so what do I know? I do know that after thirty minutes of cross checking his 'discoveries' with what actual science says about these things he is not that impressive at all. But in the end it was his support for the Turkey video that tipped me off. The image of him and Maussam sipping Margaritas on the beach brought out my ire.

I wonder how many other UFO researchers also get away with making outlandish claims of science. IMHO whenever we see charts, graphs or lists of lenses and equipment used to capture 'a real live UFO on video' my hoax spidey sense gets into high gear.

 

[chikane]

Regarding the review of Grant Cameron

Personally, if it weren't for all the other evidence for UFOs during the Early Modern Era, and the extensive research that's been done, I'd tend to lean toward the secret test aircraft theory myself. But until someone produces an authentic report of a crashed test aircraft that fit's all the evidence we do know is reasonably accurate ( dates, times, places ) we have nothing to substantiate the Test Aircraft Theory. The closest we've come to that is the Project Mogul theory, and at least we know that was a real project. Let's also not forget that the military people who were there at the time could tell the difference between a flying saucer and a rocket and an airplane, and that the initial report from the base was that what they found was a disk, not an aircraft. But even if it was a test aircraft, it wouldn't make any sense to cover it up with a story about a flying saucer. It's far more likely that if were actually a test aircraft that they would have simply said it was a military aircraft. Lastly, there has been so much investigation on both sides of the issue that researchers would most likely have run across something to indicate it was a crashed aircraft. To think otherwise is pretty much the same as suggesting that all the researchers ( both skeptics and ufologists ) are either inept or lying. That just doesn't seem reasonable.

yep, I agree one hundred percent with you on this about Roswell. If what had crashed was some secret military device or aircraft so highly classified (Mogul or anything else), why in the hell announce that it was a flying saucer? It makes no sense at all. That would be indeed be the stupidiest and the worst thing to do if you don't intend to bring attention on the case. You could be sure that any journalist would call to report on the story and that it wouldn't last long...I believe even a novice guy in the intelligence staff wouldn't make this desastrous announcement. It would have been much more appropriate to not release any issue if the news had not spread yet, or if not (which was the case) just acknowledge some test missile or aircraft had crashed. As for the Mogul balloon explanation, if it was really a Mogul balloon, the answer of a weather balloon would have been the most evident one. So how come nobody thought of it, spoke of a flying saucer and then change the story to a weather balloon the next day?!!

Also, even a few days after the event, nobody seemed to be aware nor care about it so that it was a rancher that had the army informed that something had crashed. That's just as competent the army would be with their top secret projects!!

One way or another, it doesn't make sense. So my best guess, based on my understanding of the events and the many witness testimonies about the strange material recovered, the cleaning, etc..., would be that the remains of some ET craft were indeed recovered and the army, not prepared to deal with its consequences and thinking the news had already gone out, said the truth, but when they realized that no civil apart from Mac Brazel had seen the site and that they could in fact handle the situation, they reversed their judgement and decided to keep such an incredible news secret.