Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
There's nothing saying that any human being has ever been abducted by ET. Plenty of people think they have been, but it doesn't mean they have. However, once someone proves it, I'll poop my pants.
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Dr. Roger Leir
- Thread starter wwkirk
- Start date
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There's nothing saying that any human being has ever been abducted by ET. Plenty of people think they have been, but it doesn't mean they have. However, once someone proves it, I'll poop my pants.
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
That's perfectly fair. It's certainly a murky topic. On an intuitive level, I sense that there's something to some of it, but intuition isn't the same as having sufficient objective evidence, and for me the extra stretch required to extrapolate alien abduction from the evidence we have for the reality of alien visitation is just too much for me to commit to it one way or the other.
Doesn't surprise me in the least. Lance once worked w/ a Cincinnati skeptical group where he helped write and compile boilerplated generic responses to media stories related to the paranormal. These responses (I assume) would be sent to counter positive stories about the "paranormal," UFOs and the like...
Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
That's a great way of making sure people stay informed about nonsense like the stuff Leir talks about. The internet makes it much easier now to point out how ridiculous Leir is.
Skymon876
Paranormal Adept
Skymon876
Paranormal Adept
Nobody compares to the ridiculous behavior of Bill Nye and James Mcgaha and several other uninformed lazy sloppy skeptics who refuse to do any homework.
And your insults against Leir have no merit.
Skymon876
Paranormal Adept
1.The Kumburgaz case has been in the ATS forums for 3 years and not debunked nor moved to the hoax section.
2. No skeptic has been able to come close to a plausible explanation and 90% of skeptics have not even bothered to try explaining it. They can't.
3. Hoaxkiller who is a good debunker who I like, and runs hoaxkiller forums and does a good job has failed to debunk this case.
4. Reality Uncovered has failed to debunk this case and gave up on it.
There are 26 days of video. That is alot of video to debunk.
2. No skeptic has been able to come close to a plausible explanation and 90% of skeptics have not even bothered to try explaining it. They can't.
3. Hoaxkiller who is a good debunker who I like, and runs hoaxkiller forums and does a good job has failed to debunk this case.
4. Reality Uncovered has failed to debunk this case and gave up on it.
There are 26 days of video. That is alot of video to debunk.
Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
So then you can say without a doubt, people are being abducted by aliens?
Dwight Ward
Paranormal Novice
It's happened too much before. Whenever an experiencer or researcher leaves their area of expertise and attempts to instruct us about things beyond their ken, they sound silly. Dr. Leir discredits his own possibly valid work by trying to sound authoritative on physics and cosmology. The part about artificially acelerating photons and calculating distances from the presence of specific elements is nonsense. Leir is likable but it's obvious he enjoys the attention.
From my limited reading, a protein coat constructed of human neutral dna that won't trigger an immune response is indeed possible, but such relatively mundane research subjects are lost in Leir's wild speculations.
From my limited reading, a protein coat constructed of human neutral dna that won't trigger an immune response is indeed possible, but such relatively mundane research subjects are lost in Leir's wild speculations.
Maaaaaaaate, thats an absolute and no different than a counter claim lots of people are being abducted by aliens.
With no proof for either argument, the honest answer is we dont know.
What we do know is lots of people have claimed its happened to them, betty and barny hill, the kelly cahill account
PROJECT 1947: Keith Basterfield - A CATALOGUE OF AUSTRALIAN UFO ENTITY AND RELATED REPORTS
Bill Chalker Archive
Its not impossible that abductions are real.and there is enough in the way of accounts and even possibly DNA evidence in the koury case to give us scope to keep an open mind, and not dismiss it outright
Jimi H.
Paranormal Adept
LOL, comedy gold. I actually went over to ATS yesterday to find the pics again, and it seems there's still one guy who won't accept it's been debunked. Cigaretteman, is that you?
Burnt State
Paranormal Adept
That's cool, reality is obviously a very subjective experience. Some believe in alien abduction, screen memories and that hypnosis will help reveal the truth. Some believe all that stuff is full of hooey. Rarely does anyone ever convince anyone of anything. People will believe what they choose to, perhaps based on personal experience, intuition or new knowledge.
I believe that implant nanobabble, tripods blowing in the soundless wind, hypnosis, greys and reptilians taking tourist photos of Jamie Maussan on the beach and all those ships off the coast of Turkey make for easy UFO construction, like a swarm of insects being turned into rods on a hot summer's day by slow frame video. But that's just me.
Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
You're right Mike, I should not have phrased it that way - I should have said there really is nothing pointing to the fact that what these people are experiencing is an abduction by an extra-terrestrial species. I can't stress enough that I don't think that these people are liars. They are just processing the information in a way that makes them think they are being abducted by aliens.
I am just really annoyed by the way Leir approaches this topic.
starise
Paranormal Adept
One heck of a fine gig for a foot doctor right ?
So far I have listened to just over half of the show. I'm dating myself a little bit but his voice reminded me of Burle Ives with a little scratch,so my ears are expecting a Christmas carol when I hear the voice. Dr. Leir also looks similar,the big bearded teddy bear.....enough of my rambling though. If
Granted one does need to pretty well versed in biology to be any kind of a doctor so he is qualified to call a spade a spade in the biological realm. In the same way that Sitchin went ape nuts over the meanings of ancient Sumerian clay tablets, how can we be so sure that he isn't adding a little commentary on the side?
I do think something is going on. Objects don't usually randomly show up in a person. Nanotechnology is a fact. I guess I would feel better about the subject if we had more multiple affirmations of these things from multiple sources. I don't intend to discredit someones observations simply because they don't have training in a particular area. FWIW he did expound on the findings of others as well. You don't necessarily need a degree in said field to get a decent overall picture of it and there are some real yutzes out there with degrees. A good example of the lenses we tend to see things through. Looking through my own lense I tend to be very very skeptical of many of his opinions, even going as far as unbelief and pure doubt in some cases.
The question is are we talking from the neck up or from the foot down?
As of halfway through the show one of the most unbelievable things he has said is that the next generation of kids are somehow genetically modified to be different. I do think that some growth horomones from meats have made it into the bodies of some of these kids. I'm not convinced or even half undoubtful that kids are being tweaked by the greys. Leir uses the example of how easily the younger generation uses technology. He also admits to being a bit of a bungle with a smart phone. This is simply because the younger set have grown up with technology. Not all older people are tech challenged.I don't feel that I am lacking in my ability to use technology or adapt to new tech. There are 60 year olds who are more up on whats new than some 20 somethings. So IMO Leirs' opinions on this subject are not applicable across the board.
If true, any evidence of extraterrestrial interference by the methods theorized on so far tell me one sure thing, that "they" are not super beings because they need to use fabricated ships just to get around. They need to use trial and error over time to find whatever answer it is they seem to be looking for. They need us for reasons not completely known, but most likely its genetic.They don't really care about us as individuals.
Lots of questions. What about the people who claim to have been abducted who don't have implants? If there are millions of people abducted we should have tons and tons of implants. Why have we only seen a few examples of what appear to be implants? If we can look at nano tubes we should have the ability to see the structures inside these things.Why aren't there better descriptions of these structures? The very minute that something is seemingly discovered the supposed shroud of secrecy comes up...." We can't tell you that it's a secret".
I have enjoyed listening to the show though. We can all decide for ourselves what to make of it all.
To be fair Angelo, I don't think the turkey video has been linked to abduction but I could be wrong.
nameless
Paranormal Adept
...again this "I think therefore Aliens" hypothesis is detrimental. Lets say these implants are real and lets view them within Dr Leir's paradigm. How can we activate the AIs? Have they been affected within the host? What correlation has been made if any between patients? What questioning has been made to the patients and was it loaded? Its sounds like Dr Leir is the best and worst person to find these objects as he has taken the data i.e."a mysterious object" and then let his 50s sic-fi imagination run wild with it. If these items are real then they need to be passed on to proper research scientists and agencies who are best able to investigate these devices.
We can suppose thousands or millions of people are being tagged for genetic marking and experimentation. We try to fill in the gaps by clutching at an analogical experience in this case animal husbandry. Dr Leir combines this with witness statements that may be tainted, that have some relevance with an abduction type scenario. Whats to say that the abduction scenario is an effect of the implant, i.e.-The implant makes you have an out of this world experience to see how you react? Whats to say that AI is in fact an unobtrusive transmitter for gauging intrinsic human experience, decision making, belief systems, psi abilities which may be puzzling or an antitheses to an outside observer as opposed to genetic marking or any other reason you care to come up with? We can start supposing all kinds of crazy shit. Yet the Dr is quite adamant its aliens, and its to do with genes and something to do with young people, twitter feeds and greys.
Maybe the Greys are us from the future, where we have become these non de-script, sun damaged, a-sexual, cave dwelling, soulless, flaccid, telepathic automatons and they've come back to see where it all went wrong, and after much soil sampling, abducting and cow carving they're pretty sure its something to do with Simon Cowell, Bisphenol-A and milk.
We can suppose thousands or millions of people are being tagged for genetic marking and experimentation. We try to fill in the gaps by clutching at an analogical experience in this case animal husbandry. Dr Leir combines this with witness statements that may be tainted, that have some relevance with an abduction type scenario. Whats to say that the abduction scenario is an effect of the implant, i.e.-The implant makes you have an out of this world experience to see how you react? Whats to say that AI is in fact an unobtrusive transmitter for gauging intrinsic human experience, decision making, belief systems, psi abilities which may be puzzling or an antitheses to an outside observer as opposed to genetic marking or any other reason you care to come up with? We can start supposing all kinds of crazy shit. Yet the Dr is quite adamant its aliens, and its to do with genes and something to do with young people, twitter feeds and greys.
Maybe the Greys are us from the future, where we have become these non de-script, sun damaged, a-sexual, cave dwelling, soulless, flaccid, telepathic automatons and they've come back to see where it all went wrong, and after much soil sampling, abducting and cow carving they're pretty sure its something to do with Simon Cowell, Bisphenol-A and milk.
Dwight Ward
Paranormal Novice
Alien implants in turkeys? I can solve this one. Those are probably just popup thermometers.
Seriously though, I discounted the abduction phenomenum as delusional until the sheer weight of witness evidence tipped some internal intuitive scale. I don't think that many people can be liars or that they could be mentally ill in such identical fashion. I'm in the 'something is happening but I don't know what' school now.