If Disclosure happened, what would happen to the movement?

[Ezechiel]

Regarding the 'Biblical Barrier,' I'm not convinced it exists, at least in not such a widespread manner as envisioned. Basically a lot of us are saying that the fundamentalists are too fundamentalist to handle it and they're all completely bat-shit crazy for believing such nonsense in the first place and they would absolutely freak out if the aliens landed.

I listened to an interview not long ago of an obviously fundamentalist theologian. He was presented with the idea of 'What of we are not alone?' He pondered a moment and said, 'Well, that just means that we'll have to enlarge our horizons and understand we have more work to do, more souls to save.'

That's a very earth centric and supremacist statement ... and exactly the response I would have expected LOLOL.

The fundamentalist theologian answered within a biblical framework where the 'others' were created within the same time frame as humans.

Had the question been: 'What if we are not alone and these discovered entities came before us and may have played a part in defining us' ... the response would have been a lot less politically correct LOL and this is really where you can find a biblical barrier. Saving a predecessor that played a role in defining you is a bit pretentious

Last paradigms were about displacing the center of the physical world from the earth to the sun to the center of the galaxy and finally to the center of an expanding universe.

Handing over the source of our sentience from a godlike entity to a flesh and bone entity that had abilities in genetic manipulation may seem over the top... but tell that to the square corn.

 

[Schuyler]

That's a very earth centric and supremacist statement ... and exactly the response I would have expected LOLOL.

The fundamentalist theologian answered within a biblical framework where the 'others' were created within the same time frame as humans.

Had the question been: 'What if we are not alone and these discovered entities came before us and may have played a part in defining us' ... the response would have been a lot less politically correct LOL and this is really where you can find a biblical barrier.

OK, no problem, but that wasn't really the issue here. The issue is what would people do if an alien presence were known. Would they freak out or would they take it in stride? Whether the aliens 'came before us' or whether they had a part in defining us are much deeper questions than the 'fact' that they exist. They're almost philosophical. Who says they defined us? Prove it.

We're on the same page as far as bat-shit crazy is concerned. I just think that people who DO have a strong faith (in crazy shit or not) would be able to take 'Disclosure' in stride probably better than someone adrift in their own fantasies. I don't know that for sure, of course.

 

[Ezechiel]

The issue is what would people do if an alien presence were known. Would they freak out or would they take it in stride?

Pandora's box:

Religious organizations, sects, individuals whose belief systems are too rigid will crack. Of course you'll have apologists frantically trying to pull the pants back up.

IMHO, initially, the majority of people will feel deeply betrayed by their governments. To recover any credibility, deeper questions will need to be answered by the governments and the answers, if they are available, could have the potential of remodelling our civilization.

If humanity decides to go on, you should see a radical re-allocation of energies dealing with new concerns with extreme challenges. Who knows how far the rabbit hole goes

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. - Stephen Hawking<!--colorc--><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--> <!--/sizec--><!--fontc-->

 

[Bixyboo]

OK, no problem, but that wasn't really the issue here. The issue is what would people do if an alien presence were known. Would they freak out or would they take it in stride? Whether the aliens 'came before us' or whether they had a part in defining us are much deeper questions than the 'fact' that they exist. They're almost philosophical. Who says they defined us? Prove it.

We're on the same page as far as bat-shit crazy is concerned. I just think that people who DO have a strong faith (in crazy shit or not) would be able to take 'Disclosure' in stride probably better than someone adrift in their own fantasies. I don't know that for sure, of course.

I agree, just announcing the FACT that aliens/ufo's even EXIST would freak the world out, imo. (Even with all the desensitizing via sci-fi movies, cartoons, books, etc).

But...I'm not so sure that the fundies would take this in stride. (Muslims should be able to tho, as their Koran even states:'There are many other skies').

Some might (like that Preacher who sees it as more souls to save). But not most, imo.

Watch the movie Contact. Some scenes in it, are what people might do.

 

[Siani]

OK, let's pretend. What if Disclosure happened? What would happen to the 'Disclosure Movement'? Would Obama appoint Steven Greer as ambassador to the aliens? Would Bassett become a popular cultural hero overnight?

If Disclosure happened, Greer et al would probably still insist that the whole truth wasn't being told. They'd start nit-picking and splitting hairs, saying, 'no, the greys aren't from planet Y, they're from planet Z' and other such things that ran contrary to the official word. I can imagine them insisting that the aliens disclosed by Obama were demonic imposters, or something equally ridiculous, whilst insisting that only they had access to the true aliens. Greer would find some way to try to flog his Ambassador to the Universe training courses to the gullible (at $995 a pop!).

 

[Gareth]

I agree siani. There would always be some greater truth bullshit that Greer etc woul feel they need to be involved with.

 

[Ezechiel]

I just pisses me off that for most people on the planet, the idea of pre-human advanced civilisation (or 3, or 4) of humans or something else freaks them out.

For me that is one the most exciting things I could imagine being told.

A cosmological perspective makes the idea of only one advanced civilization in the entire universe totally ridiculous. The holy bible immediately shuts that idea down in the first sentence.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Notice the singularity of the word earth, thus producing the earth-centrist attitude of religious authorities that lasted centuries

The Vatican only recently acknowledged the possibility of life beyond this planet. However they didn't expand on what these same life forms may have been doing prior our emergence 500,000 years ago. IMHO, 14 billion years of play time is not insignificant LOLOL

 

[Trajanus]

But seriously, Obama, or any government for that matter, couldn't disclose anything without first securing communication channels with alien entities.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you saying he can't disclose on his own because the US government has no conclusive proof, in the form of wreckage?

 

[Ezechiel]

I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you saying he can't disclose on his own because the US government has no conclusive proof, in the form of wreckage?

You could actually have a warehouse full of alien wreckage. What you may not have is way to properly explain away this hot potato without triggering changes or fears that have the potential of destroying your own civilization.

IMHO, emotional stability is a big factor and until our civilization can demonstrate that it is at par with the rest of what is out there and can deal as equals with foreign entities our introduction in any highly advanced galactic community would probably be more destructive than productive (subserviant slave anyone ?).

The knowledge that there are more advanced races out there would possibly also redirect a massive part of human efforts and ressources towards defensive/monitoring/security aspects instead of the relatively healthy balance that exists right now.

Until we reach relative technological parity and can effectively monitor and protect an area the size of a solar system.... what's the point ?

I think the 'Colares' incident (if it happened) or the many abductions cases convincingly demonstrate lack of respect, denigration, exploitation of humankind by technologically advanced entities.

I think their interest in our nuclear capabilities is an indication of deep concern. They obviously have vested interests in our planet, interests that may or may not have to do with us and they want to keep on farming

 

[Kieran]

I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you saying he can't disclose on his own because the US government has no conclusive proof, in the form of wreckage?

Well we do not know for sure what they have. It is safe to assume they have videos and photographs of UFOs. We have Roswell and other stories where it is claimed we have recovered craft, not man made and bodies.Roswell for me is the only case out there that would make me think' maybe they have evidence along these lines. If Obama was to show the World the evidence, would we as humans get frightened by the evidence shown. Obama says to the world' look here is photographs of bodies recovered, materials from the craft and other evidence, but that is it. We not sure, from where they have come from and how long they are here, and we are not in contact with any other races other than humans. This would lead people to have more fear in the long run. You have to lay to the world these visitors are friendly not an enemy. Disclosure to happen would have to be a happy event not something to fear.

That is why i have problems with disclosure. The abduction cases that have happened, how can you explain this away as something for good. They took people from their homes and elsewhere, with no permission from the individual and this for most humans is not good. The high strangeness that goes on with
this topic is not going to be easily explained to people too, this for me is one reason why i think disclosure will never happen. Think about it for a second and look at your your own lives, and think how this would event the mindset of people around you. Would they accept it readily or go a bit crazy.

The dinosaur and reptilian theory is something i thought about before on my own. I never brought it up because of the weirdness of that theory to people. It has many problems and the facts are dinosaurs did exist and died out according to evidence given and claims given for their extinction is an Asteroid hit or ice age. We know for a fact, there was many strange mammals in the seas and the time of the dinosaurs. I am not sure the reptilian theory or cases have merit, so it not something i have discussed openly or write about just for those reasons alone.

 

[Bixyboo]

Well we do not know for sure what they have. It is safe to assume they have videos and photographs of UFOs. We have Roswell and other stories where it is claimed we have recovered craft, not man made and bodies.Roswell for me is the only case out there that would make me think' maybe they have evidence along these lines. If Obama was to show the World the evidence, would we as humans get frightened by the evidence shown. Obama says to the world' look here is photographs of bodies recovered, materials from the craft and other evidence, but that is it. We not sure, from where they have come from and how long they are here, and we are not in contact with any other races other than humans. This would lead people to have more fear in the long run. .

Exactly. If Disclosure really were happening NOW, THAT would be telling A LOT more behind the scenes, than what is being told to the world.

I heard somewhere that whatever is released to the world by our government is about 20 yrs BEHIND, in terms of technology, etc.

So if the point of disclosure is upon us, then that would be saying things like: 'We've figured out how they and their Crafts work, we know their intentions, etc.'

And idk, but to me it seems that we as humans may not be intelligent/advanced enough to figure out anything of ET origin yet.

Just my opinion.

 

[Ezechiel]

So if the point of disclosure is upon us, then that would be saying things like: 'We've figured out how they and their Crafts work, we know their intentions, etc.'

Or worse, they are here, we don't understand their technology and they won't tell us why they're here.

What nutty leader will rise up and admit flagrant vulnerabilities ? Do you have an escape pod in case of an alien aggression LOL. We're all stuck here ready to be harvested (human bacon anyone )

 

[Trajanus]

Until we reach relative technological parity and can effectively monitor and protect an area the size of a solar system.... what's the point ?

Yeah, it occurred to me there wouldn't be much point in disclosing the reality of aliens if there's still little or nothing we can do about them. The question is, how far are we from that point? If some of these reverse engineering stories are true, maybe not so far. Still, I'm not betting on Obama revealing anything, assuming he's even privy to anything.

I think the 'Colares' incident (if it happened) or the many abductions cases convincingly demonstrate lack of respect, denigration, exploitation of humankind by technologically advanced entities.

There are some examples of apparently altruistic behavior but I'd still agree. ET secretiveness is naturally grounds for suspicion about motives.

I think their interest in our nuclear capabilities is an indication of deep concern. They obviously have vested interests in our planet, interests that may or may not have to do with us and they want to keep on farming

They may want to exploit us secretly but are worried that we may be able to interfere, and view our nuclear weapons as one indication of this.

 

[Trajanus]

Well we do not know for sure what they have. It is safe to assume they have videos and photographs of UFOs. We have Roswell and other stories where it is claimed we have recovered craft, not man made and bodies.Roswell for me is the only case out there that would make me think' maybe they have evidence along these lines.

Well there's also Kecksburg, and maybe a few others.

If Obama was to show the World the evidence, would we as humans get frightened by the evidence shown. Obama says to the world' look here is photographs of bodies recovered, materials from the craft and other evidence, but that is it. We not sure, from where they have come from and how long they are here, and we are not in contact with any other races other than humans. This would lead people to have more fear in the long run. You have to lay to the world these visitors are friendly not an enemy. Disclosure to happen would have to be a happy event not something to fear.

Unless of course, the US has secretly developed technology on a par with that of aliens and is poised to mass produce it, hence in a position to protect us, come what may. But while some progress may have been made, based on retrieved saucers, we probably still have a ways to go...

That is why i have problems with disclosure. The abduction cases that have happened, how can you explain this away as something for good. They took people from their homes and elsewhere, with no permission from the individual and this for most humans is not good. The high strangeness that goes on with
this topic is not going to be easily explained to people too, this for me is one reason why i think disclosure will never happen. Think about it for a second and look at your your own lives, and think how this would event the mindset of people around you. Would they accept it readily or go a bit crazy.

I agree that, given ample evidence for malevolence, and apparent powerlessness in the face of it, it wouldn't be wise to reveal them now. But in another 20-50 years--who knows?

The dinosaur and reptilian theory is something i thought about before on my own. I never brought it up because of the weirdness of that theory to people. It has many problems and the facts are dinosaurs did exist and died out according to evidence given and claims given for their extinction is an Asteroid hit or ice age.

The former. No evidence for an ice age c 65 MYA. But Chicxulub may not have been 100% responsible for Maastrichtian dino extinctions.

We know for a fact, there was many strange mammals in the seas and the time of the dinosaurs.

No, the mesozoic seas had reptiles such as mosasaurs; mammals didn't radiate into marine environments until the Cenozoic.

 

[Ezechiel]

The high strangeness that goes on with
this topic is not going to be easily explained to people too, this for me is one reason why i think disclosure will never happen. Think about it for a second and look at your your own lives, and think how this would event the mindset of people around you. Would they accept it readily or go a bit crazy.

What are the chances these people might understand

 

[Kieran]

Well there's also Kecksburg, and maybe a few others.



Unless of course, the US has secretly developed technology on a par with that of aliens and is poised to mass produce it, hence in a position to protect us, come what may. But while some progress may have been made, based on retrieved saucers, we probably still have a ways to go...



I agree that, given ample evidence for malevolence, and apparent powerlessness in the face of it, it wouldn't be wise to reveal them now. But in another 20-50 years--who knows?




The former. No evidence for an ice age c 65 MYA. But Chicxulub may not have been 100% responsible for Maastrichtian dino extinctions.



No, the mesozoic seas had reptiles such as mosasaurs; mammals didn't radiate into marine environments until the Cenozoic.

The kecksburg UFO case is interesting, but it might not be alien.The Roswell case is the only case officially spoken of by the American government however sadly it was just a debunking exercise. The Roswell case has more merit also just for the fact that we got the claim from the army, that they had ' captured a flying disc' Now the other cases are interesting and they might be indeed be true, but none of the other cases have those interesting details for me. We probably have far more interesting cases today around the world, but the focus is, the evidence. So if Roswell is true, the evidence they got here would be the best to show the world in a disclosure announcement.

Your a believer in ETH..So How could you we be on a par with a race of beings a billion years ahead of us just for arguments sake. I also very much doubt we have build technology similar to these craft in anyway. Somewhere out there, there could be a airplane along the lines of a the stealth bomber different in shape and maybe faster, but never on the same par as these craft. First of all your dealing with a craft let us go with your theory that they are space travelers.Have we even got the materials here to build a similar engine or whatever enables these craft to fly, have we even got the metal similar to the hull of these craft on the planet. We are jumping ahead too much my friend. We have zero evidence that we can have technology similar to these UFO occupants and to claim maybe or could we is not evidence.

I think it pretty obvious to me nothing will ever be released unless there was some outside influence forcing them to release the information, either some group of aliens forcing their hand in some way or some collapse in the network of the people holding the information.

Some scientists differ, the only problem is there is no evidence for such a ice age during the time of their extinction, so you have to go with those findings.It still there as a theory from scientists, not from me and to be honest scientists are not even sure themselves what happened really.The most accepted theory today is an Asteroid hit, some claim it happened in Mexico the blast and other places where massive craters have been found have also been looked at.

Mammals existed and came into there own when the dinosaurs became extinct But mammals lived around water and where around long before the dinosaurs. Some of what was in the water where called mammal reptiles by some scientists, but your right your point is true for the most part.

 

[Kieran]

What are the chances these people might understand

Faith based groups have seriously lost there mind for the last thousand years or so. The commandments are pretty solid rules to follow and they are good rules in my opinion. I see many problems with the bible babble and the whole faith belief system that happens in religion.It has a evil face and good face at times and it pretty obvious to me in that video, that hate forms and develops just because of religion. This disagreement has been here going on for a long time the Christians and Jews against the Muslims, how different is there belief system really one believes the Jesus was the son of God and other does not, come on are we that moronic to fight and kill each other for the next thousand year' probably is the answer

I Think maybe we do need a kick up the Arse by something different other than us, but in the long run we probably be fighting over which Aliens are better and which ones are not.

 

[Schuyler]

I believe these people are in the minority. As I stated my experience above, even people who profess to be fundamentalist in their beliefs often are a lot more flexible than they let on. They are simply in an environment where it is in their best interests to not make a big deal of it. Further, these guys are not mainstream. Your average Methodist or Catholic may go through the motions of professing Christ will come again, but they do not believe the Earth was made in 4004 BC and they really have no problem with the concept of aliens. Even the Vatican has said as much.

In other words, who cares what they think? What are they going to do? Take over the world? They'll simply have to deal with it. My guess is that they'd find some convoluted, twisted, totally insane explanation that allowed them to keep their faith and accommodate a new reality.

In our little scenario we're constructing here, I don't think they need to be overly accommodated. We're looking at extremes of behavior here when the large majority of people are not so extreme in their beliefs.

 

[Bixyboo]

Or worse, they are here, we don't understand their technology and they won't tell us why they're here.

What nutty leader will rise up and admit flagrant vulnerabilities ? Do you have an escape pod in case of an alien aggression LOL. We're all stuck here ready to be harvested (human bacon anyone )

Oooo. Good points! Something tells me that if THAT were the case, then Disclosure would not happen UNTIL it were understood/known.

 

[Trajanus]

So How could you we be on a par with a race of beings a billion years ahead of us

We have no idea how much older they may be; it needn't necessarily be by very much.

I also very much doubt we have build technology similar to these craft in anyway. Somewhere out there, there could be a airplane along the lines of a the stealth bomber different in shape and maybe faster, but never on the same par as these craft. First of all your dealing with a craft let us go with your theory that they are space travelers.Have we even got the materials here to build a similar engine or whatever enables these craft to fly, have we even got the metal similar to the hull of these craft on the planet. We are jumping ahead too much my friend. We have zero evidence that we can have technology similar to these UFO occupants

Some people, like Fouche, have claimed we have. Others, like Adair and Lazar have testified about alien gear in government hands undergoing study. Consider Cash-Landrum--possible evidence for a reverse engineered craft escorted by choppers. And billions in black budget money we have no idea what is being used for.

Some scientists differ, the only problem is there is no evidence for such a ice age during the time of their extinction, so you have to go with those findings.It still there as a theory from scientists, not from me and to be honest scientists are not even sure themselves what happened really.The most accepted theory today is an Asteroid hit, some claim it happened in Mexico

Yes Chicxulub, where the big K-T crater was found.

But mammals lived around water and where around long before the dinosaurs. Some of what was in the water where called mammal reptiles by some scientists, but your right your point is true for the most part.

Maybe you mean mammal-like reptiles, or therapsids.