James Carrion, "The Rosetta Deception," July 20, 2014

[Fedora Chronicles]

Hey, James... wanted to reply to your post in the Stan Freidman thread but didn't want to further pollute his thread with my guff.

This is not a pissing contest, nor a debate about whose theory is better, it is about using the scientific method - propose a theory - show evidence - wait for someone else to disprove your theory WITH evidence to the contrary.

As for your "buy my book" comment, I had to laugh, as I don't need to make a living off of this, I am gainfully employed in the computer field.

I don't believe my theory is absolute truth, that is just what the evidence shows so far, until someone comes along and disproves my theory with documented research.

No, James. You’re wrong. This is a pissing match between two monsters of UFOlogy – the “King Kong” and “Godzilla” are in this theoretical death match for the hearts and souls of true believers. That’s how it appears to be played out by all the parties involved. Like I’m going to say again later… we can’t “hear” people’s tone via text.

The purpose of “The Paracast” is to inform and entertain us on a weekly basis. Gene and Chris provide a decent (or in some cases excellent)ghost stories around this digital campfire. They tell a “ghost story” with the help of special guests, specifically authors who have written books that might also inform and entertain me and other members of the audience. For you, an author of a book, your goal should be to entice us to read your book. I have (at least) $11, you have a book to sell for $11. Your job is to convince me to give you my $11 and read your book so I’ll enjoy it and tell others who share similar interests to repeat the process. If you’re not here to do that, then what’s the purpose of you?

Entertain me with a good “ghost story” and perhaps convince me that your book is worth buying and reading. That’s true of every other author who comes to this virtual camp fire – your need to sell me on your book or you’re just wasting your time promoting it. What’s the point in mentioning it?

Getting the folks here to buy your book is a good thing. You’re not here to just give it all away – nor do you have the time to do so. You’ve already done the work now it’s time for us to do our part and read what you have to say. If we dare to have our believes challenged. Sometimes you come off as saying “BUY MY BOOK!” via my perception. But that’s not a bad thing because if not you wouldn’t be here. Many times you’ve said – and I’m paraphrasing – “you need to buy and read my book to know what I’m talking about and you can be more informed on what I’m trying say. You haven’t read my book so you have no right to an opinion.” I don’t have to read your book to have an opinion on it – my opinion is based on your appurtenance on the podcast and this forum.

Good for you for having a steady day job. You don’t NEED us to buy your book, but your publishers do if you’re going to write another book. (Unless you’re self publishing…) It’s actually healthy that you couldn’t care less one way or another about me or anyone else’s opinion unless we actually buy your book. That’s how it should be to an extent. A bit of emotional detachment is health and a good way to guard yourself and your well being.

Now, as for your comment – “I don't believe my theory is absolute truth, that is just what the evidence shows so far, until someone comes along and disproves my theory with documented research.” It might be just me but that’s not how you come off. You come off as someone saying “this is what really happened and if you don’t believe it, you’re a idiot!!!” That might not be your intent, that might actually be what you are actually saying. Nobody can tell what someone’s “tone of voice” is via written text in a forum.

Your theory is based on A)What you’ve read and chosen to believe, B)What you’ve read and chosen to not believe and ignore and C)What you have chosen not to read because doing so would be a waste of your time. That’s not just you – that’s all of us. Our beliefs are a based on a collection of facts or fiction we chose to embrace and our own personal experiences. That’s just human nature. Neither good or bad. Just is.

I sense some frustration with you because I think you have something you need to say but can’t for reasons we explored in your podcast; you’re bound to keep quiet. You’re the former director of this agency responsible for UFO research and you left for whatever reasons and I want to like you because you stood up for your beliefs. You’re miffed about something but I don’t know you’re full story yet. Even if I don’t agree with your theories I want to clean my plate as it were and get into your book a positive and open mind for the best experience possible. But… I’m also wondering if you’re ever going to pound out a book about your experience and why you left that organization. If you have… point me in the right direction.

Good luck and keep writing, Thanks!

 

[Constance]

For me... why allow the controversy over what "really" happened perpetuate. I think James is right... if we found out our government has been lying to us about Roswell there will be a groundswell of distrust and maybe even anarchy. OK, so Uncle Sam... what else are you lying about?

I agree with much of what you say in the above post, but disagree with the paragraph I quoted. Americans who have not yet caught on to the extent to which 'Uncle Sam' has lied to us about far less speculative subjects than Roswell are not likely to blink at an argument that Roswell was a disinformation project. They're not likely to get a proof of that theory either. I think it's clear that we have to be concerned about what has been uncovered concerning the Roswell events. Despite the contradictory interpretations that swirl around us -- about the reliability of human perception and the nature of reality and the deviousness of governmental mind manipulators as well as about Roswell and the ufo phenomenon in general -- we do live in an actual world, and if ets or extra-dimensionals are interacting with our planet it is surely a major issue requiring a resolution, however long it takes to achieve it.

 

[James Carrion]

Hey, James... wanted to reply to your post in the Stan Freidman thread but didn't want to further pollute his thread with my guff.



No, James. You’re wrong. This is a pissing match between two monsters of UFOlogy – the “King Kong” and “Godzilla” are in this theoretical death match for the hearts and souls of true believers. That’s how it appears to be played out by all the parties involved. Like I’m going to say again later… we can’t “hear” people’s tone via text.

The purpose of “The Paracast” is to inform and entertain us on a weekly basis. Gene and Chris provide a decent (or in some cases excellent)ghost stories around this digital campfire. They tell a “ghost story” with the help of special guests, specifically authors who have written books that might also inform and entertain me and other members of the audience. For you, an author of a book, your goal should be to entice us to read your book. I have (at least) $11, you have a book to sell for $11. Your job is to convince me to give you my $11 and read your book so I’ll enjoy it and tell others who share similar interests to repeat the process. If you’re not here to do that, then what’s the purpose of you?

Entertain me with a good “ghost story” and perhaps convince me that your book is worth buying and reading. That’s true of every other author who comes to this virtual camp fire – your need to sell me on your book or you’re just wasting your time promoting it. What’s the point in mentioning it?

Getting the folks here to buy your book is a good thing. You’re not here to just give it all away – nor do you have the time to do so. You’ve already done the work now it’s time for us to do our part and read what you have to say. If we dare to have our believes challenged. Sometimes you come off as saying “BUY MY BOOK!” via my perception. But that’s not a bad thing because if not you wouldn’t be here. Many times you’ve said – and I’m paraphrasing – “you need to buy and read my book to know what I’m talking about and you can be more informed on what I’m trying say. You haven’t read my book so you have no right to an opinion.” I don’t have to read your book to have an opinion on it – my opinion is based on your appurtenance on the podcast and this forum.

Good for you for having a steady day job. You don’t NEED us to buy your book, but your publishers do if you’re going to write another book. (Unless you’re self publishing…) It’s actually healthy that you couldn’t care less one way or another about me or anyone else’s opinion unless we actually buy your book. That’s how it should be to an extent. A bit of emotional detachment is health and a good way to guard yourself and your well being.

Now, as for your comment – “I don't believe my theory is absolute truth, that is just what the evidence shows so far, until someone comes along and disproves my theory with documented research.” It might be just me but that’s not how you come off. You come off as someone saying “this is what really happened and if you don’t believe it, you’re a idiot!!!” That might not be your intent, that might actually be what you are actually saying. Nobody can tell what someone’s “tone of voice” is via written text in a forum.

Your theory is based on A)What you’ve read and chosen to believe, B)What you’ve read and chosen to not believe and ignore and C)What you have chosen not to read because doing so would be a waste of your time. That’s not just you – that’s all of us. Our beliefs are a based on a collection of facts or fiction we chose to embrace and our own personal experiences. That’s just human nature. Neither good or bad. Just is.

I sense some frustration with you because I think you have something you need to say but can’t for reasons we explored in your podcast; you’re bound to keep quiet. You’re the former director of this agency responsible for UFO research and you left for whatever reasons and I want to like you because you stood up for your beliefs. You’re miffed about something but I don’t know you’re full story yet. Even if I don’t agree with your theories I want to clean my plate as it were and get into your book a positive and open mind for the best experience possible. But… I’m also wondering if you’re ever going to pound out a book about your experience and why you left that organization. If you have… point me in the right direction.

Good luck and keep writing, Thanks!

I am self published...I knew the money angle would surface its ugly head sooner or later ...

First off if you are looking for a campfire story and to be entertained, watch Hangar 1 and don't waste your money on my book. If you have a serious interest in understanding world events and what British and American intelligence agencies were up to during the time frame that kick-started the modern-day UFO era, then the book will be for you.

Secondly, I will be posting the ENTIRE book online on my blog for anyone to read at no cost.

Third, my agenda is truth and the pursuit of it ... not selling books, nor making the rounds of the UFO talk circuit nor winning a popularity contest...

As for my time at MUFON - ancient history and not worth the time of my day to write about ... now or in the future...

 

[DissectionStalker]

Secondly, I will be posting the ENTIRE book online on my blog for anyone to read at no cost.

Third, my agenda is truth and the pursuit of it ... not selling books, nor making the rounds of the UFO talk circuit nor winning a popularity contest...

I hope you can get on C2C, and do an interview with Greg Bishop, and ??? too! Greg will have the inside info on Doty, AND he is still friends w/Moore. Let us know here or on your blog, when you'll do some more podcasts or radio. Have you got anything else coming soon? Or, have you done some other podcasts or radio already?

Ha! I think that is fantastic that you will offer your book online at some point even for free is amazing! Maybe offer a Kindle version for real cheap too -like $2.99 later on.

Thanks! I'm really looking forward to the Roswell information, because that has been so hyper-focused on by many "experts" from that '80's decade like a flock of birds -for decades now. These people are dying or retiring in the next few years, so maybe there is room coming for new ideas to set the record straight wherever it got bent out of shape.

Good luck.

 

[Fedora Chronicles]

I agree with much of what you say in the above post, but disagree with the paragraph I quoted. Americans who have not yet caught on to the extent to which 'Uncle Sam' has lied to us about far less speculative subjects than Roswell are not likely to blink at an argument that Roswell was a disinformation project. They're not likely to get a proof of that theory either. I think it's clear that we have to be concerned about what has been uncovered concerning the Roswell events. Despite the contradictory interpretations that swirl around us -- about the reliability of human perception and the nature of reality and the deviousness of governmental mind manipulators as well as about Roswell and the ufo phenomenon in general -- we do live in an actual world, and if ets or extra-dimensionals are interacting with our planet it is surely a major issue requiring a resolution, however long it takes to achieve it.

One of the great things about the internet is that we have people like Snowden who was willing to take everything that he stole from “The Government” and put it out on the internet and every time he does a document dump it makes news. The problem now is that people are so skeptical that some folks wonder if Edward Snowden himself isn’t part of a bigger program of deception and disinformation.

We’re talking about liars lying about the lies they lied about to the point we don’t even know what to believe any more. Which is the official lie, and which lie is the actual truth. Or is the actual truth just another lie to distract us from what really happened.

Oh, it was a flying saucer! No, it’s a weather balloon! No, it was a top secret program to track Soviet nuclear testing! No! it was high altitude parachute tests with a shaved monkey! No! it was high altitude parachute tests with a POW from Japan! No! it was high altitude parachute tests with a test dummy! No… we scattered debris in the middle of the desert hoping people would find it so we can deceive the Soviets! No it was an experimental air craft salvaged from a Nazi test facility! No! It was a flying saucer.

In a couple of years someone is going to come out with a definitive book that’s going to claim that “The Rosetta Deception” is yet another part of a program of disinformation… “And here’s the proof! I stole James Carrion’s Starbucks receipt from 2013 that proves he was in the same neck of the woods as Lee Harvey Oswald!” Sadly some people might actually believe it.

Roswell has become this container of hopes and dreams of people who want to believe that the Paranormal Unexplained Phenomenon and Government Conspiracies converge and like James said it’s “The Bucket” – can’t take anything out of the bucket or the whole experience falls apart.

Meanwhile in a secret government research facility in the Alagssh region of Maine…

 

[James Carrion]

One of the great things about the internet is that we have people like Snowden who was willing to take everything that he stole from “The Government” and put it out on the internet and every time he does a document dump it makes news. The problem now is that people are so skeptical that some folks wonder if Edward Snowden himself isn’t part of a bigger program of deception and disinformation.

We’re talking about liars lying about the lies they lied about to the point we don’t even know what to believe any more. Which is the official lie, and which lie is the actual truth. Or is the actual truth just another lie to distract us from what really happened.

Oh, it was a flying saucer! No, it’s a weather balloon! No, it was a top secret program to track Soviet nuclear testing! No! it was high altitude parachute tests with a shaved monkey! No! it was high altitude parachute tests with a POW from Japan! No! it was high altitude parachute tests with a test dummy! No… we scattered debris in the middle of the desert hoping people would find it so we can deceive the Soviets! No it was an experimental air craft salvaged from a Nazi test facility! No! It was a flying saucer.

In a couple of years someone is going to come out with a definitive book that’s going to claim that “The Rosetta Deception” is yet another part of a program of disinformation… “And here’s the proof! I stole James Carrion’s Starbucks receipt from 2013 that proves he was in the same neck of the woods as Lee Harvey Oswald!” Sadly some people might actually believe it.

Roswell has become this container of hopes and dreams of people who want to believe that the Paranormal Unexplained Phenomenon and Government Conspiracies converge and like James said it’s “The Bucket” – can’t take anything out of the bucket or the whole experience falls apart.

Meanwhile in a secret government research facility in the Alagssh region of Maine…

Critical minds don't promote conspiracy or mystery, they look for answers. And if the answers aren't forthcoming, they dig deeper ... cynical minds throw their hands up in the air and give up, or do their research by proxy and accept what sounds good to them. Snowden didn't publish anything to the Internet, he released his documents through Journalists, and the media broke the story. Have you seen one classified document Snowden put on the Internet? I don't care who comes out in a couple of years claiming my research disinformation - hell it took Stanton Friedman less time than that to make the same debunking assertion. I care about the intrepid critical minds who will disprove my research with empirical documentation and who are not deterred by the disingenuous commentary you make for no apparent reason other than to express your cynicism.

 

[Constance]

One of the great things about the internet is that we have people like Snowden who was willing to take everything that he stole from “The Government” and put it out on the internet and every time he does a document dump it makes news. The problem now is that people are so skeptical that some folks wonder if Edward Snowden himself isn’t part of a bigger program of deception and disinformation.

It's most convenient for the PTB that has showered us with so much disinformation in the last century that at this point many people will believe anything, including that we're all now helpless to discern who's telling the truth. I don't happen to believe that. But it does seem that an increasing number of people do want to believe it.

Oh, it was a flying saucer! No, it’s a weather balloon! No, it was a top secret program to track Soviet nuclear testing! No! it was high altitude parachute tests with a shaved monkey! No! it was high altitude parachute tests with a POW from Japan! No! it was high altitude parachute tests with a test dummy! No… we scattered debris in the middle of the desert hoping people would find it so we can deceive the Soviets! No it was an experimental air craft salvaged from a Nazi test facility! No! It was a flying saucer.

Most of those claims can't be [and aren't] taken seriously at this point for anyone who spends adequate time reading the research into Roswell rather than the debunkers, the skeptics, and already outed disinformationists.

In a couple of years someone is going to come out with a definitive book that’s going to claim that “The Rosetta Deception” is yet another part of a program of disinformation…

Only time will tell.

“And here’s the proof! I stole James Carrion’s Starbucks receipt from 2013 that proves he was in the same neck of the woods as Lee Harvey Oswald!” Sadly some people might actually believe it.

The situation is already absurd enough. No need, I think, to make it more absurd than it is.

 

[Burnt State]

Since no "rockets" were ever recovered, I couldn't even tell you if they were made out of paper mache or something else. And therein lies the mystery. What we do know from military sources and official documentation is that "rockets" were seen and would self destruct. The US Navy Beachjumpers who perpetrated WW2 deception used paraphernalia that self destructed so as to confuse the enemy. The commanding office of the Beachjumpers was Admiral Hewitt who was in Scandinavia and the Mediterranean during the exact time frames of the Ghost Rockets being seen in Northern and Southern Europe. So if I were the one building these "rockets" for deception purposes, I would make sure they were light weight and highly combustible so that self destruction would be complete. As for the media acting as a propaganda agent, that is not only plausible but highly likely given how WW2 deception planners used the media in the same way. Read the excellent book "The Deceivers" for an in-depth look at WW2 deception. The Deceivers: Allied Military Deception in the Second World War: Thaddeus Holt: 9781616080792: Amazon.com: Books

Ok, that's a plausible scenario for that era. Would there really be no evidene at all though of a paper mache burning?

What do you make of the many sightings over the decades of rockets entering lakes and the continued sightings in Sweden of these same ghost rockets? There really is no purpose that continues in a line from your own theory of the propagandist war being fought post WWII. Do you think that these original rockets and sustained media reports have created the environment of contemporary mass hallucinations, perpetual misidentification? It does seem to be a phenomenon that has continued from the era you write about & onwards, and that just doesn't make much sense if your argument is accurate. What's your take on this?

 

[Constance]

Note to James Carrion: I'm looking forward to your book on Roswell. Do you have a projected publication date for it?

 

[James Carrion]

Ok, that's a plausible scenario for that era. Would there really be no evidene at all though of a paper mache burning?

What do you make of the many sightings over the decades of rockets entering lakes and the continued sightings in Sweden of these same ghost rockets? There really is no purpose that continues in a line from your own theory of the propagandist war being fought post WWII. Do you think that these original rockets and sustained media reports have created the environment of contemporary mass hallucinations, perpetual misidentification? It does seem to be a phenomenon that has continued from the era you write about & onwards, and that just doesn't make much sense if your argument is accurate. What's your take on this?

Taking all of the "sightings" and throwing them into one big bucket of evidence is an exercise in futility ... it is the problem that plagues Ufologists who want to come up with a grand scheme of things explanation, something I am often accused of doing with my research, but which is just the opposite as I focus on a very narrow time frame.

 

[James Carrion]

Note to James Carrion: I'm looking forward to your book on Roswell. Do you have a projected publication date for it?

Still actively doing research...so I don't have an estimated time of publication...

 

[Bananas]

James, I have a question for you that isn't related to the topic of Ufology, but it's something that I've pondered often and it's not a complicated question nor is it personal. I completely understand if you don't wish to answer though, and will not press you about it.

In your opinion, do you think the cold war ever really ended for the career military leaders of the world? I always found it odd that everything would be "ok" just because some office temps shaked hands. (That's what I always imagine career military people thought about politicians with 4 year terms, office temps).

 

[Ufocurious]

James, I have a question for you that isn't related to the topic of Ufology, but it's something that I've pondered often and it's not a complicated question nor is it personal. I completely understand if you don't wish to answer though, and will not press you about it.

In your opinion, do you think the cold war ever really ended for the career military leaders of the world? I always found it odd that everything would be "ok" just because some office temps shaked hands. (That's what I always imagine career military people thought about politicians with 4 year terms, office temps).

Yeah. That is how I think about all politicians. I work in a public bank and deal everyday with the permanent staff in both cities and state governments. We usually feel angry that all the work we do in 4 years goes down the drain when the next bunch of politicians are elected.
And cold war has been replaced by hot war: gulf war, Iran, Israel/Palestine, Russia & former soviet states, etc. They all affect the whole world.

 

[James Carrion]

James, I have a question for you that isn't related to the topic of Ufology, but it's something that I've pondered often and it's not a complicated question nor is it personal. I completely understand if you don't wish to answer though, and will not press you about it.

In your opinion, do you think the cold war ever really ended for the career military leaders of the world? I always found it odd that everything would be "ok" just because some office temps shaked hands. (That's what I always imagine career military people thought about politicians with 4 year terms, office temps).

I don't think it ended...it may have thawed and become luke warm but based on current events in the Ukraine..the temperature has dropped dramatically...

 

[Bananas]

Yeah. That is how I think about all politicians. I work in a public bank and deal everyday with the permanent staff in both cities and state governments. We usually feel angry that all the work we do in 4 years goes down the drain when the next bunch of politicians are elected.
And cold war has been replaced by hot war: gulf war, Iran, Israel/Palestine, Russia & former soviet states, etc. They all affect the whole world.

I meant the cold war between super powers. These local wars have been raging all the time. There's always a small war going on somewhere. Well, relatively small at least, compared to a World War, for example.

I don't think it ended...it may have thawed and become luke warm but based on current events in the Ukraine..the temperature has dropped dramatically...

As someone who lives 134.91 (I checked ) miles away from the Russian border (Helsinki) I'm acutely aware of the Russian situation.

 

[SRL+]

James: It seems that everyone that has an interest in the UAP/UFO enigma pursues their own pet theories and cases. As in rapidly becoming disenchanted and jaded myself, I’m still clinging on to a couple of my favorite pets, in hoping that they won’t necessarily Keel over. One of those pets is named “Stephenville”, and I think that you’ve taken it for a walk a couple of times. Below, is a post that I just happened to have stumbled over while in transit to the “Chit Chat “forum, dated: 5/16/2010, by Ron Collins.

If you could conceivably find it within your enormous heart, just briefly.., what the heck ever happened to Stephenville.., along with Ricky Sorrells, Steve Allen, and all of Erath County? What is your overall impression of the Stephenville sightings? Is there anything of interest left there, or is it simply that this dog just won’t hunt anymore?

Below, Ron Collins…

“Recently I went to the DFW MUFON meeting. The theme was an update on Stephenville. Now a couple of odd things happened.

1) The meeting notice clearly stated that no media members were allowed. This meant that people like Angela Joiner were not allowed to come. I hear she was a bit pissed about it.

2) Ken Cherry went into some serious depth about his complete disatisfaction with James Carrion and how MUFON National handled this case. Apparently, they tried to usurp the investigation away from the state investigators. They even sent in the "STAR TEAM" which consisted of one lone investigator from Denver.

3) The radar analysis was also apparently conducted by 2 groups. Ken says the 1rst report, downloadable on the MUFON site, is full of mistakes and inaccuracies but did support the overall conclusions reached in the second interpretation of the data. I am under the impression that the data analyzed was NOT the same data in the same format. They did pass out a handout enumerating the particulars but did not have enough to go around. I am still waiting for my copy to be emailed to me. I bought a DVD containing a video of the second report. If I get time, I will transcribe it.

The most interesting thing I found from attending was how the National branch is perceived by the state chapters and vice versa. Ken made no bones about his belief that Carrion was a disinfo agent or was otherwise a plant. Personally, I put no stock in that. I do know that the old guard of field investigators in Texas did not like the initiative of stocking MUFON with younger folks. I was not aware how big that rift had become. There still is a bunch of bad blood there. It sure would be an interesting Paracast episode to hear the in's and out's of the investigation from Ken Cherry and Steve Hudgeons (lead investigator). There really were some other insights as to which witnesses were truly credible and which were obvious glory whores. I guarantee that will shock you.

Also, the UFO hunters stuff. Birnes and Cherry got into it several times. A bunch of very good insights.

I will post more when I get my handout.”

 

[Constance]

An interesting post:

James: . . . Below, is a post that I just happened to have stumbled over while in transit to the “Chit Chat “forum, dated: 5/16/2010, by Ron Collins.

If you could conceivably find it within your enormous heart, just briefly.., what the heck ever happened to Stephenville.., along with Ricky Sorrells, Steve Allen, and all of Erath County? What is your overall impression of the Stephenville sightings? Is there anything of interest left there, or is it simply that this dog just won’t hunt anymore?

I would also like to hear James's responses to those questions.

Below, Ron Collins…

“Recently I went to the DFW MUFON meeting. The theme was an update on Stephenville. Now a couple of odd things happened. . . .

3) The radar analysis was also apparently conducted by 2 groups. Ken says the 1rst report, downloadable on the MUFON site, is full of mistakes and inaccuracies but did support the overall conclusions reached in the second interpretation of the data. I am under the impression that the data analyzed was NOT the same data in the same format.

?? The radar analysis I read was the lengthy one available on the NARCAP site for a long time. Can James supply information about the 'second one' and clarify the differences between them?

 

[junius]

I think Mr Carrion makes a good case for some element of disinformation and counter intelligence of behalf of the US in relation to UFO. However, you should read the Mitrovkin archive before making any final judgement. This man had access to nearly all KGB files and copied them before defecting to the west. I would have guessed there would have been at least a sniff of soviet/KGB suspicions of US counter intelligence operations of this nature in these files. My view is perhaps there is a bit of both going on:

1) The US secret aircraft or drone testing can be disguised amongst UFO reports, any professional and credible witnesses such as airline pilots are put off reporting such incidents as a result and the public don't know what to think

2) With regard to other genuine reports or where crashed material has been recovered, I think it may be the case the US simply don't know themselves what is going on. Any authority would not want to disclose this, it would seem to be a lack of control. To counter this it is possible disinformation has been cast to perhaps show we are in contact, secret deals etc etc

3) Based on everything I have seen thus far, I do think we have credible UAP/UFO reports and closer encounters. I think that we are simply being studied and observed and that no attempts have been made for direct 'formal' contact. (Yet). I don't think this is likely to happen for a long time and I don't think we have to rely on the study/observations can be decided to be of ET in nature alone. I think we must consider inter dimensional, including time travel...I'll explain my rationale for that one later...

 

[mike_thoth]

I like your post, I think along similar lines as Junius. Yes many Intel agencies would use the belief in alien UFOS to hide classified experiments, they would likely make official sighting reports to local media & UFO investigators, perhaps several reports by distinct people speaking anonymously.

However a classified plane or drone still acts like a plane. The airframe maybe different but it is still subject to the physical laws our own planes must negotiate. For instance a small black triangle seen banking left in the sky would look abnormal, but it is certainly not changing direction, right angle turns etc... The Blackbird SR-71 certainly could shift, blazing through the sky, but to change direction by 180 degrees at full speed require the plane to bank, a turn that is covers a 30 mile arc!!

Leaving Roswell out of this (as it's in my very own grey basket), metallic residue has been retrieved. I think in two types, a slag, tin type material, along with a magnesium varient. Analysis of these have been made public but I don't think any real hypothesis I has been made as to why such elements are combined & whether we can infer anything from them. I maybe wrong on this but if someone can point to any discussion papers I would be grateful.

I think official investigators, perhaps under the radar may have loads of such material, they are likely to have a treasure trove of photos & other smoking gun evidence, but after analysing all of this, there is no gaur entree they have all the answers. I think this may well be a primary reason for the silence and where needed, a coverup of best evidence.

Without answers to basic questions like what are they, why are they here, what are the made of & intentions, what if there is an intelligence behind it, what is it's nature or reasoning. You simply can't admit your powerless.

But what concerns me are the social impacts. Let's say we are being monitored, then this has likely Been happening for thousands of years. If they were quietly monitoring then they could do it without being seen or detected. However they do get seen, millions of times. Why?

Even the sightings themselves cause social issues which is a variable in how our culture develops. For instance polls now show that the public correlates ufos with alien spacecraft. This is not all because of the result of UFO researchers linking the two. The phenomena itself plays into this belief system by constantly giving us alien type creatures & prophetic warnings from contactees eager to be heard.

If this is correct, even at a small level, they the intelligence will know it's impact on our culture then it stands to reason there is perhaps an intentional manipulation going on. If so, what is it's end game?

The source of the phenomena is of course important, but it's effects are more so. The phrase "control system" has been used before, and it makes sense in a system where you are manipulating belief. But the system itself, if it does exist may well be accessible in some way should you produce the correct scenario to engage it.

Another thought could be thus. What if a private group have figured out a way to engage this system & are able to get the phenomena to manifest on cue? Now that would be scary.

Who knows and we should always keep an open mind, no preconceptions.

Mike

 

[James Carrion]

James: It seems that everyone that has an interest in the UAP/UFO enigma pursues their own pet theories and cases. As in rapidly becoming disenchanted and jaded myself, I’m still clinging on to a couple of my favorite pets, in hoping that they won’t necessarily Keel over. One of those pets is named “Stephenville”, and I think that you’ve taken it for a walk a couple of times. Below, is a post that I just happened to have stumbled over while in transit to the “Chit Chat “forum, dated: 5/16/2010, by Ron Collins.

If you could conceivably find it within your enormous heart, just briefly.., what the heck ever happened to Stephenville.., along with Ricky Sorrells, Steve Allen, and all of Erath County? What is your overall impression of the Stephenville sightings? Is there anything of interest left there, or is it simply that this dog just won’t hunt anymore?

Below, Ron Collins…

“Recently I went to the DFW MUFON meeting. The theme was an update on Stephenville. Now a couple of odd things happened.

1) The meeting notice clearly stated that no media members were allowed. This meant that people like Angela Joiner were not allowed to come. I hear she was a bit pissed about it.

2) Ken Cherry went into some serious depth about his complete disatisfaction with James Carrion and how MUFON National handled this case. Apparently, they tried to usurp the investigation away from the state investigators. They even sent in the "STAR TEAM" which consisted of one lone investigator from Denver.

3) The radar analysis was also apparently conducted by 2 groups. Ken says the 1rst report, downloadable on the MUFON site, is full of mistakes and inaccuracies but did support the overall conclusions reached in the second interpretation of the data. I am under the impression that the data analyzed was NOT the same data in the same format. They did pass out a handout enumerating the particulars but did not have enough to go around. I am still waiting for my copy to be emailed to me. I bought a DVD containing a video of the second report. If I get time, I will transcribe it.

The most interesting thing I found from attending was how the National branch is perceived by the state chapters and vice versa. Ken made no bones about his belief that Carrion was a disinfo agent or was otherwise a plant. Personally, I put no stock in that. I do know that the old guard of field investigators in Texas did not like the initiative of stocking MUFON with younger folks. I was not aware how big that rift had become. There still is a bunch of bad blood there. It sure would be an interesting Paracast episode to hear the in's and out's of the investigation from Ken Cherry and Steve Hudgeons (lead investigator). There really were some other insights as to which witnesses were truly credible and which were obvious glory whores. I guarantee that will shock you.

Also, the UFO hunters stuff. Birnes and Cherry got into it several times. A bunch of very good insights.

I will post more when I get my handout.”

Focus, focus, focus.... I am focused on my own research into the 1945 - 1947 time frame and don't have anything to add to the Stephenville saga, MUFON polictics, petty accusations, etc.