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June 14 Jacobs/Hopkins show

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excellent show, one of the best.

apart from not trusting hypnotherapy as a harvester of statistics [ had it done, struck me as BS ].

I'm puzzled by the ending to this episode and here comes the dumb obvious question. ok... right... if you're saying there are hybrids living on earth? c'mon... hey... show us?

are there pictures, accounts, details [ proof? ] in mr hopkins and jacobs books?

there's lots of crap on google images but sure that's all kids practicing photoshop?
 
they lost me with the global warming comment. i didnt think there was anyone who actually believed in that BS any more...::)
 
excellent show, one of the best.

apart from not trusting hypnotherapy as a harvester of statistics [ had it done, struck me as BS ].

I'm interested in the correlations between accounts. These guys have invested over 30 years of their time and energy... doesn't mean their speculations are correct.

However their observations is leading them to the conclusion that a covert process is going on... sometimes you need to be hit on the head more than a few times for the idea to sink in and take root. After rational debating, seems they've reached a point leaving very few other alternatives to consider.

Only a book may help us explore (and possibly debunk) the path they've followed in order to reach the conclusion that we are being assimilated. A 2 hour show can expose the extent of the phenomenon only so much.

Their conclusions make sense in the context of a civilization that has evolved beyond their home system. They would have the same security concerns we have, you would think ?! The approach aliens have chosen may be different than something like homeland security... but then is sending evangelical priests in Afghanistan any different :D

 
excellent show, one of the best.

apart from not trusting hypnotherapy as a harvester of statistics [ had it done, struck me as BS ].

I'm puzzled by the ending to this episode and here comes the dumb obvious question. ok... right... if you're saying there are hybrids living on earth? c'mon... hey... show us?

are there pictures, accounts, details [ proof? ] in mr hopkins and jacobs books?

there's lots of crap on google images but sure that's all kids practicing photoshop?

I agree where is there a way to verify this idea DNA tests anyone. Maybe the "hybrids" or the concept has nothing to do with aliens as much as evolution in general. People that are different have always been feared and labeled. It would be a very dull world if everyone fit into the "norm".

Also if certain agencies know this is the new mythology to entice researchers with, I bet a few are having fun with it.
 
I've just finished listening this episode and the last 30 mins I listened as I was walking back home from the office. Well, I gotta tell you that I gave a few looks at people around, I hope nobody noticed it :D I think my doubts about Bush have been vanished by this interview entirely, now I'm sure.

Seriously I think I can express my thoughts with the 4 points:
  • The data, David and Budd have presented, is too far from being useful enough in terms of making any conclusions about the scale and the nature of the abduction phenomena. But I do not intend to blame them in any way, they just like Ted Phillips need funds and more people with solid science skills and critical thinking to make a real study and more time to repeat this study several times during a long period of time to try to find patterns and trends.

  • Both are definitely 100% sincere in their statements but I don't think that people's memories alone are good enough to make such conclusions about hybrids and assimilation which presumably takes place.
  • Ok, let's imagine it does happen. Remember that scene from the 'Blade runner' movie when a person questioned a robot to catch him on questions which only a human being knows how to answer or simply dismiss :-). Is this the way to figure if a human being is a human being or a hybrid?
  • If they do walk among us and therefore their biology similar to us as they are hybrids and fully adapted to a life on the Earth, so we should look for them on a front line of fight with a global climate change. They need a climate to stay as it's now to be able to live on this planet. So..hm...Al Gore? Bono?
 
I don't have a problem with screen memories. I've experienced them. As an example, as a late teen I woke up with a start when three tiny deer walked into my bedroom. This seemed curious, but for some reason didn't strike me as an odd thing to have happened. But the deer were very, very strange. Their eyes were very large, never blinked, and never stopped staring at me wherever direction they walked in my room. One hopped up on my bed, and I grabbed it's foot (being concerned about having hooves on my bed) and it wasn't a hoof at all... it had pads and felt soft, like a cat's foot. This didn't make sense; deer have hooves -- and suddenly it wasn't a deer. I was looking at a classic little 3' tall grey sitting on my bed and I was holding it's hand as it stared at me. Fade to black.
The little grey guy was a screen, also. They are actually insects wearing teddy-bear costumes. They're not from outer-space, either. They live in a wooden house on tall stilts and you have to climb a long rope ladder to enter a hatch in the floor.

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I'm interested in the correlations between accounts. These guys have invested over 30 years of their time and energy... doesn't mean their speculations are correct.



Only a book may help us explore (and possibly debunk) the path they've followed in order to reach the conclusion that we are being assimilated. A 2 hour show can expose the extent of the phenomenon only so much.



I met Dr. Jacobs a few weeks ago, I attended his presentation, I just finished his book 'The Threat' and just finished listening to the podcast. I have to say that I still don't know what to make of this line of thought, I have no point of reference for this material.

I do want to make mention of this, that throughout his presentation and answering questions from those of us that approached him afterwords, there was this deep concern on his face as about the things he was saying.

"These guys have invested over 30 years of their time" - You know, right or wrong... that's a freaking long time to be interested in a subject doesn't exist on some level. I wonder if it's just some sort of group sub conscience collective??

Gene and David.. great interview!
 
Jacobs/Hopkins on hybrids

The thing that I find most troubling about this idea* -- and maybe I'm just lacking in imagination here -- is that (assuming the traditional ET model) the Greys (or whatever) would presumably have a totally different biology and they would have evolved from a completely different chemistry set...

Creating any sort of hybrid (between us and them) would be about as close as you're going to get to completely impossible. So, unless I'm missing something (which maybe I am), this phenomenon must be a reflection of something else.

*Though I must admit that I found this idea to be a very compelling X-Files scenario.
 
Jacobs/Hopkins on hybrids

The thing that I find most troubling about this idea* -- and maybe I'm just lacking in imagination here -- is that (assuming the traditional ET model) the Greys (or whatever) would presumably have a totally different biology and they would have evolved from a completely different chemistry set...

Creating any sort of hybrid (between us and them) would be about as close as you're going to get to completely impossible. So, unless I'm missing something (which maybe I am), this phenomenon must be a reflection of something else.
It's all pink inside.
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Jacobs/Hopkins on hybrids

Creating any sort of hybrid (between us and them) would be about as close as you're going to get to completely impossible. So, unless I'm missing something (which maybe I am), this phenomenon must be a reflection of something else.

We have nothing but assumptions to work with. I would suggest that if these are indeed extraterrestrials and they have cracked the lightspeed riddle then synthesizing DNA on a molecular (and perhaps even atomic) level is probably child's play for them.
 
Jacobs/Hopkins on hybrids

We have nothing but assumptions to work with. I would suggest that if these are indeed extraterrestrials and they have cracked the lightspeed riddle then synthesizing DNA on a molecular (and perhaps even atomic) level is probably child's play for them.

Very much so.

Ultimately, the idea seems to be that the human race is used as a template in a hybridisation scheme useful in directing human history towards an alien-tolerant posture.

Micro-management by seemlessly infiltrating the earths eco-system with functional high-intellect alien hybrids could significantly alter the course of human history.

The question is: given the appropriate technology would humans use the same strategy on lower intellect life forms or eradicate them ? GW would probably nuke them and drop bibles on the survivors :D:D:D
 
Awful

I'm a relatively new listener to the Paracast and, I suppose, a novice to the details of "alien abductions"; this episode, however, is a wonderful example of why a lot of people think the whole matter is BS. First, let me say that the paranormal is, to me, w/out question "real". The evidence -- both personal and based on real scientific studies and other very credible (but not done in a lab) reports -- is very, very solid (incontrovertible, I would say). But listening to these two guys was a 2 hour session of assumptions and ideas stated as conclusions, and conclusions stated as facts. I'm no statistician nor pollster, but just b/c you say you asked people certain questions (and don't tell us what the questions were or under what conditions they were asked) doesn't mean that their answers reflect the truth that you assume already exists. Also: how the hell do you poll for the truth of alien abductions??? Even if I tell myself that this all for entertainment -- it doesn't even feel like entertainment b/c the so-called methodology has more holes than there are craters on the moon. Even though the gentleman sound measured and reasonable, every other sentence out of their mouths were conclusions that they had in no way proved and assumptions they had no basis in making. Anyway, other commenters have raised these same points so I won't continue with this rant. But if this is the best that the alien abduction community has, people will and SHOULD continue to see it as a joke.
 
Awful

I'm a relatively new listener to the Paracast and, I suppose, a novice to the details of "alien abductions"; this episode, however, is a wonderful example of why a lot of people think the whole matter is BS. First, let me say that the paranormal is, to me, w/out question "real". The evidence -- both personal and based on real scientific studies and other very credible (but not done in a lab) reports -- is very, very solid (incontrovertible, I would say). But listening to these two guys was a 2 hour session of assumptions and ideas stated as conclusions, and conclusions stated as facts. I'm no statistician nor pollster, but just b/c you say you asked people certain questions (and don't tell us what the questions were or under what conditions they were asked) doesn't mean that their answers reflect the truth that you assume already exists. Also: how the hell do you poll for the truth of alien abductions??? Even if I tell myself that this all for entertainment -- it doesn't even feel like entertainment b/c the so-called methodology has more holes than there are craters on the moon. Even though the gentleman sound measured and reasonable, every other sentence out of their mouths were conclusions that they had in no way proved and assumptions they had no basis in making. Anyway, other commenters have raised these same points so I won't continue with this rant. But if this is the best that the alien abduction community has, people will and SHOULD continue to see it as a joke.

Sorry, this post should have been placed under the thread regarding the June 14, 2009, podcast.
 
Awful

I think there are definitely issues with a lot of what those two guys in particular say and believe about the phenomenon. But I try to keep in mind that they spend (AFAIK) every day dealing with this stuff, and saturating your life so heavily with any topic will eventually lead to massive acceptance.

Like I said in the other thread, I try to tune out certain aspects of what they say as noise and try to focus on key points, like, "is this really happening?" This phenomenon, if real, is the most shocking and terrifying discovery in the history or human beings. It really is.

So for me that's the important question. And while I'm not convinced yet, I do accept that something is going on. Something I found pretty interesting was the two Israeli kids who independently reported similar memories about the Israeli secret service (or equiv.) taking them in the night. If true, whether that represents non-human activity or just some bizarre Govt thing, it's still interesting.

There were a few nuggets like that in this weeks show. It was definitely worth sifting through the entire interview for the various little nuggets of interesting and comparatively sober claims, despite having to throw a few large chunks of coal out in the process.
 
Awful

well, to be fair to the guests, they never said that anything is fact. They stated their beleifs, which are the conclusions they came to as researchers, and their findings.

Not once did they say that anything was absolute or fact. They simply presented information about past cases and studies that were done.

I think you need to relisten to the episode. If you do, you'll discover that they never once try to force their beleifs upon us, they just want to share their opinions so that we may learn what different people are theorizing about in this field. Which is all we can really do is theorize and form our own opinions.

To call an episode awful because you don't agree or only half listen is pretty brutal. I mean, where were you on the LA Marzulli threads? Or did that all seem to make perfect sense to you?

BTW: In the future you should type your posts in small paragraph form. It's much easier to read and people will be more inclined to read your full posts. Anyways, welcome to the forum.
 
All in all, I rather liked this episode. Though I don't agree with most of the opinions shared in the episode, it was very interesting to hear them.

I've never really bought into the "hybrid theory" that these two support, but I enjoyed the discussion that it brought up in this episode.

As far as their statistical data section was concerned though, it felt like it was full of holes, as most poll based research does, no fault of those doing the investigating, but all it really does is provide some interesting data, nothing that you can really use as factual evidence however.

As for abductions. I have always been on the fence on that issue, sometimes the events seem plausible, especially in the cases where objects were surgically implanted in people, but most seem just too out there or too convenient. It's like the whole possession thing, some of the evidence is very compelling, though it always falls short as something you can use for an objective arguement.
 
The little grey guy was a screen, also. They are actually insects wearing teddy-bear costumes. They're not from outer-space, either. They live in a wooden house on tall stilts and you have to climb a long rope ladder to enter a hatch in the floor.

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Hey man I just laid out an experience that I haven't shared with hardly anyone and has troubled me for the past 20 years and you just mock me?

Never once did I say the grey guy that I saw was a zeta reticulan ET, it's just what I saw that led me to believe my perception was being screwed with.

Seriously not cool. And counter productive.
 
I've yet to hear any compelling evidence for the reality of widespread abductions.

There is a lot of it. Have you read Dr. John Mack's book? He felt the same as the two guest on the show. He figured if he studied 200 people who were abducted, that's only him, and he had been in contact withy colleagues who studied more, there has to be many many more who have not come to him (and he was only one person) or have not come to anyone.

Then there is the fact that people all over the world report the same facts, regardless of the lack of UFOs and aliens in their popular culture.

Then you have the fact that some people had an odd occurrence or missing time, but have no memory of the abduction, or even seeing a UFO.

Dr. Jacobs mentions having had "thousands" of letters to him over the years, as has Mr. Hopkins. If you use that as a percentage of the populous, you can see where they get those numbers. It might easily be every person on the planet! How would we prove otherwise?

And for the doubt about hypnosis, people like the late Dr. Mack, a respected Harvard educated psychiatrist surely knew the right way to perform the procedure, and Mack had no interest in UFOs, and wasn't necessarily a believer. He didn't know what was happening to these people, but he did know they weren't crazy or making up stories. He felt we need to look at their experiences at face value, since no other explanation held up (sleep paralyses, etc.).

The "screen memory" thing goes way back in UFO lore. People seeing owls, or deer, or seeing things like a "metal building" in an empty lot where they hadn't seen one a half hour earlier! They knew something wasn't right, but have no control over what they are seeing. The "aliens" don't seem to be very good at picking something believable to use as a cover. Maybe as long as they don't see a flying disk. Neighbors saw firemen... something that certainly would cause alarm, but still wasn't a flying disk. Other times witnesses see the abduction happening as it really is. We can only speculate why.

I thought this was an excellent show, and I was not familiar with Dr. Jacobs. I have of course read of the hybrid experiences that abductees have had, but not to the extent that he has found.

I think we have a real issue at hand that we have no control over. I wonder why the aliens want to appear more human? It doesn't seem like they want to take over and eliminate us, since they could have done that easily. I also don't think most humans would be able to handle having an alien race living here. We have a hard enough time dealing with our own races and cultures.

But I also can't see that they plan on waiting until they are all hybrids either. Maybe the hybrids will be a palatable go-between? Maybe we can't understand the whole thing at all. Some abductees have reported that they were told that the aliens are interested in our emotions, because they lost theirs. There are reports of abductees being on a strange world, with other abductees, and off in the distance a ground of humans are alternately laughing and crying. That seemed to me that the aliens were "toying" with the humans to watch their emotions.

Then there are the stories of abductees being shown horrifying images of our "future" or other staged dramas, probably set up to observe our reactions. I don't think it's scientific curiosity though, I think it's more about figuring out how to control a hostile and dangerous group of highly emotional beings!

If they are planing on living here in the open, without asking us how we feel about it, they have to devise some way of us all getting along, which is probably more complicated than one could imagine.
 
There is a lot of it. Have you read Dr. John Mack's book? He felt the same as the two guest on the show. He figured if he studied 200 people who were abducted, that's only him, and he had been in contact withy colleagues who studied more, there has to be many many more who have not come to him (and he was only one person) or have not come to anyone.

Then there is the fact that people all over the world report the same facts, regardless of the lack of UFOs and aliens in their popular culture.

Then you have the fact that some people had an odd occurrence or missing time, but have no memory of the abduction, or even seeing a UFO.

Dr. Jacobs mentions having had "thousands" of letters to him over the years, as has Mr. Hopkins. If you use that as a percentage of the populous, you can see where they get those numbers. It might easily be every person on the planet! How would we prove otherwise?

Agreed. Strieber got ~1/2 a million letters or more describing experiences after writing communion FWIW. If only .1% of those are real experiences that's 500 real events.

And I suspect < 10% of people with experiences and knew that you could mail Strieber actually did. I certainly didn't.

So we're possibly in the thousands from that one piece of evidence alone.

Part of the problem with this thing is that it's hard to talk about. More than one family member of mine has had these kind of experiences and I find it almost impossible to talk to them about it... and they should be the easiest ones to talk to about it.
 
Jacobs/Hopkins on hybrids

We have nothing but assumptions to work with. I would suggest that if these are indeed extraterrestrials and they have cracked the lightspeed riddle then synthesizing DNA on a molecular (and perhaps even atomic) level is probably child's play for them.

We don't know that they cracked anything of the kind. I decided many years ago that they are not traveling here from another star light years away. It might be something quite different. Maybe a different dimension?

Also just because they have technology doesn't mean they could synthesize DNA that they knew nothing about. We have a LOT of "junk" DNA in us... probably from viruses. Some of those viruses could have been vectors for genetic reprograming. With with staggering variety of human DNA, it's much easier to obtain it directly from humans, and with a wider diversity than you would get cloning something.

Just the fact that they could do something with it is pretty advanced technology as it is.
 
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