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June 14 Jacobs/Hopkins show

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...but I felt like they have a science fiction story of alien-human hybridization here, and fwiw I'm not convinced that's the entire or even main truth behind abduction stories.

(of course, I guess any story of alien abduction is going to sound like a science fiction story...)

But which came first (the chicken or the egg)? ;)

The hybrid thing is the main focal point in abduction experiences.. time and time again. Sometimes you have to look at the evidence at face value, even if it's experiential. In this subject, that's pretty much all we have.

As more time goes by I think I subscribe to the notion that these beings are in the middle of some kind of crisis. Either they are dying off, or their home planet (if they have one) is becoming uninhabitable.

So what are their options? Earth must be compatible with them, and it seems we are too. They would never be able to just come and live here without taking over the planet, and it seems they don't want to do it that way. They surely could have done that by now. The hybrid thing therefore could be either a way to coexist with us, or a way to inject some other DNA into their physiology which might be needed if their young are dying, which is one scenario put forth to abductees.

I'm not so grim about the whole thing. Yes, they can control us when they want to, but since they haven't done that on a grand scale, if would seem that's not part of their program. But I can see how they might use it for the more violent aspects of humans. They seem to prefer creative types of people. I'm not one of these "space brother" people... not at all. They have their own agenda, but it doesn't seem like they plan on subjugating us, since they could have done that already. It seems more symbiotic.

I think they are just concerned about how we would react to them, and that's totally justifiable. They scare the shit out of people for the most part. But little by little they are getting into our culture. After enough people accept them as real and not a threat, then they might not be such a shock... except for very religious types... and that brings us back to why they would prefer to exist here as more human looking beings.

Either way, it seems something is really going on, and it's not sci-fi.

As far as the 2% figure... I think it's much higher. If Budd and David have each studied about 200 people, and John Mack studied about 200 people... that's a large average when you figure this is just 3 investigators.

I have no recollection of being abducted, but I have very clear memories of being communicated to by something. Same with my older brother. It sure seems like sci-fi to me, except it happened.
 
I have no recollection of being abducted, but I have very clear memories of being communicated to by something. Same with my older brother. It sure seems like sci-fi to me, except it happened.

I'm curious if what was communicated was coherent or meaningful in any logical way. I've been communicated with by something, but it's usually meaningless nonsense, or else data is presented so rapidly and in such volume, that I can't comprehend or retain any of it. I have no message from the Space Brothers to deliver.
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But which came first (the chicken or the egg)? ;)

I don't know but, chicken fried steak and scrambled eggs sounds really good right now!

The hybrid thing is the main focal point in abduction experiences.. time and time again. Sometimes you have to look at the evidence at face value, even if it's experiential. In this subject, that's pretty much all we have.

As more time goes by I think I subscribe to the notion that these beings are in the middle of some kind of crisis. Either they are dying off, or their home planet (if they have one) is becoming uninhabitable.

So what are their options? Earth must be compatible with them, and it seems we are too. They would never be able to just come and live here without taking over the planet, and it seems they don't want to do it that way. They surely could have done that by now. The hybrid thing therefore could be either a way to coexist with us, or a way to inject some other DNA into their physiology which might be needed if their young are dying, which is one scenario put forth to abductees.


If this is true... I feel their aggression doesn't lend itself to a peaceful coexistence with us, I mean, the space brothers couldn't really expect that to happen... they may have observed that at times humans tend to hold a grudge.
 
I'm curious if what was communicated was coherent or meaningful in any logical way. I've been communicated with by something, but it's usually meaningless nonsense, or else data is presented so rapidly and in such volume, that I can't comprehend or retain any of it. I have no message from the Space Brothers to deliver.
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I've written about these incidents here, but I'll tell them again, since it puts it in context.

Some of the stuff just seemed "planted" in my mind. I didn't know the source of this (and of course I still do not know), but for example, when I was about 12 or 13, I was in my basement looking at the heating pipes that run through the joists. I remember thinking that it must be hard to tighten a pipe like that. All of a sudden I have this very clear diagram for a pipe wrench that used a bicycle chain to grab the pipe, and was set up in such a way to get in tight spaces. It was like looking at a patent drawing. I could have sat down and drew it out and made one.

But I was a kid and didn't know what to do with it, and it was more like I just had a cool idea. It wasn't until years later that I saw such a clamp existed, but the one I was shown was much better. I don't remember the details about it anymore.

Years later I had the same thing happen... a design for a trail bike popped in my head. I'm not a cyclist, so it's not something I was even thinking about. In this design your legs were higher than your hips, and it had these big knobby tires and all. Once again, I've seen similar style bikes many years later, but not the same. They sure didn't make any like that when I saw this.

So I always figured this is the thing you hear about.. some great invention just pops fully formed in someone's head.

But I'm a creative person, so I'm used to music being in my head fully formed and all. But I know I did not think of these things. There was no thought involved in coming up with the idea, or even a desire to come up with a design for these things.

Then years later, about 1986 or so, I'm playing guitar in a band. I was at rehearsal with two other people, the bass player, who was my girlfriend, and another very close friend who played guitar. We had no steady drummer, so we were practicing with a drum machine.

We were playing a song I wrote, and I had the guitar solo in that song. It was a composed solo, so I played it the same all the time. But in rehearsals I liked to stretch out and improvise and see what I could come up with. So I had this idea of only knowing the first and last notes, and then I would let my mind go blank, and see what happens. I didn't want to play my usual patterns and stuff.

So as the time came for the solo, I closed my eyes and cleared my mind... now the freaky part. I heard a voice. This was not me thinking, because I was thinking about the voice I was hearing... it was very clear, and just in my head. I wasn't coming from my ears. It was a male voice, but did not sound like a person.. no accent or inflection or anything. Just a pure voice.

It said "play these notes, they will work for you". I remember thinking that was really oddly phrased.. who talks like that? Then I was compelled to look at my guitar's fingerboard. I never look at the neck when I play. I stopped doing that so I could sing lead and play. But something made me look at the neck, and there were white circles with numbers in them, connected with lines. It was like those things I remember seeing on cartoons where someone was learning to dance, and had foot prints on the floor with numbers and dotted lines connected them.

So I played the notes I was shown. I don't recall actually following the notes, I just played it. It was the most amazing thing I had ever heard. Something totally different from anything I ever heard. So we get done playing the song, and I'm wondering what just happened. So I look up at my friends, and they are standing there with their mouths open. They said something to the effect "What was that you played? That was amazing!" The thing is I couldn't remember what I played, or even what it sounded like! I remember it happening, but forgot what it sounded like.

Now I never associated any of that with "aliens"... I just didn't know what it was.

About a year ago I woke up in the middle of the night, totally awake. This would happen every now and then, and always at the same time... 3:47. I always found that odd, but my life has always been like that. So I'm laying there, and I can't sleep, so I decide to get out of bed and sit in the living room. I like to sit in the dark, and have done so since I was a kid. I like to sit and look out the window.

So I'm sitting on the couch with my legs crossed, and I might have closed my eyes. Suddenly I'm seeing a stream of stuff... pictures, diagrams, ideas, just a bunch of information. It was a lot of stuff going by really quickly and in layers. It was on my left field of vision, and moving in sort of an arc. Along with the images was just all these ideas, just kind of appearing in my mind. I can't describe how overwhelming it was. Just so much information passing by me. I could understand what everything was, even though most of it made no sense to me.

I thought to myself "wow, that's really good information"... then I thought I that's a weird way to say it... "really good information"... why did I say that? Then I hear a voice. The same voice as 20 some years before.

It's telling me to write a book about a certain thing I'm being shown. Now there's a LOT going on simultaneously. All these images, and information, just flowing by... it's like everything known in the Universe, and not by us. But at the same time I'm being told about something having to do with vibrations, and people. This isn't verbal, it's just there. Like having a book stuck into your mind in a non linear fashion... all at once, not one word at a time. As this is going on I'm being told by the voice to write a book, and get people together, and start a movement. That was pretty much the way it was said. It told me "this will help people." I had the impression it was to be used at some time in the near future when something was going to happen. This was an impression or feeling that I just had that might have been associated with images I was being shown. But I don't remember exactly.

While all this is going on, I'm having several several trains of thought at the same time... stuff like "wow, is this real?" and "this is how religions are started... this stuff has happened throughout history... someone hears a voice and is told to do something.. and that's a form of control, and I don't like that idea." And I'm thinking about all the stuff involved with this plan... a book, getting people together... and I have no desire to be a cult leader!

So I answered back (in my mind) "I don't know if I can do all this..." I don't know if this entity had complete access to my thoughts, or just the ones directed towards it. So when I thought that I didn't know if I could write that book, everything stopped. At least I think that's what happened.

But I still remembered the thing about vibrations. It made perfect sense.. like it's a VERY simple idea, but no one thought of it. It was something about "raising vibrations."

So I'm sitting there and thinking I should write this down.... I don't want to forget it. I wanted to help this entity. It seemed like an old friend. All the information it was showing me was to tell me it was sincere. It knows all this stuff. I didn't want it to be displeased with me. Those were the feelings I was having. I don't remember if the other images and stuff were still going on, but I don't think so.

I was thinking about getting up and getting the shopping list pad off the refrigerator, and getting a pen or something, but I wasn't getting up. It seemed like too much work to get up, I just couldn't do it. Then I got very tired. So I laid down on the couch, still thinking about getting the paper, but I couldn't.. I had to just lay there. But I was sure I would remember the idea. It was so clear.

The next thing I remember is waking up about an hour and a half later and going to bed. I may have woken my wife to tell her what happened. I remembered the event, and that was it. The idea was gone from my memory, except that it had to do with raising vibrations... what ever that means. Now it made no sense at all.

It was this event that made me wonder what I was dealing with.

Now on a side note, just two nights ago I was sleeping soundly, and in the middle of a dream. I don't remember what the dream was about, but it seemed pleasant enough. Out of nowhere, something smacked me in the face! I woke with a start and jumped out of bed yelling "Hey!" My heart was pounding!

I looked around, and the first thing I thought was my wife had rolled over and flailed an arm and hit me. But she was sleeping facing away from me, with one arm between her legs, and the other in front of her. She didn't even wake when I jumped up and yelled, which is unusual. Our bedroom door was closed. I think it was about 4:20 am. It wasn't 3:47! I know I wasn't dreaming because when I woke up I could still remember what I had been dreaming about, and no one smacked me in the dream. Plus this was real... I could still feel it.

I'm totally clueless about it. But this has been a culmination of events that are starting to fit together like puzzle pieces. I've also heard my named called several times at night recently.

It reminded me of one of my earliest memories. I was about 4, and was laying in my bad for a nap. But I didn't want to take a nap, and wasn't tired. It was during the daytime, but the room was dark, because of a shade on the one window.

So I'm laying there staring at the ceiling and looking at the spots your eyes make in the dark... that static kind of stuff. I started noticing that they were swirling around and forming a shape and getting brighter. Then they came together and formed what I called a "skeleton face" that was staring at me. I remember it was white with big black eye sockets. It was really big. Then it came down towards me very fast and I jumped out of bed screaming for my mom! She was in the living room watching TV. I told her what happened, and she said I had a bad dream, and wouldn't believe me that I was awake.

That has haunted me all these years, and in fact I had not been able to take a nap during the day until I was about 20! I just told people I didn't like taking naps. Now I'm wondering what I saw back then.

Another interesting thing involved my older brother when he was about the same age. Our mom was showing him a book about the pyramids, and he said she was saying something like "they are a mystery" when he heard a voice say "don't believe it, it's all lies!". He's 12 years older, and just told me this story after I told him about the "book writing" event. And that reminded me of when I was in second or third grade, and in school we were learning about the pyramids, probably the usual nonsense about them being tombs, etc. I was looking at a cross section of the great pyramid when I had the idea that is was really a circuit.. all that stuff did something. I don't know what made me think that at that age, but I knew it to be true.

So this is all coming to a head recently. I'm putting together all these really odd occurrences in my life and wondering what's going on. I've been studying the whole paranormal thing since I was young, but lately it's with more urgency, and I have the urge to seek out like minded people, which is why I'm here.
 
If this is true... I feel their aggression doesn't lend itself to a peaceful coexistence with us, I mean, the space brothers couldn't really expect that to happen... they may have observed that at times humans tend to hold a grudge.

I guess if you are a peaceful person, you will be just fine with them. I doubt they can control the minds of a large mass of people, and on an individual basis, we could easily overpower them... they are pretty frail. This would seem as a likely reason why they deal with humans a few at a time, and in very controllable situations.

Then you see them doing stuff like disarming nukes and stuff. They realize we can be dangerous, even if we are not as advanced as them. Sticks and stones do break bones, after all. Humans are good at wanting to kill something before they stop and reason with it. Also we are unpredictable due to free will, which is foreign to them.

So probably the only way they will get away with living here with us is undercover, posing as humans.

I wouldn't be surprised if the whole "space brother" movement is a way to brain wash people into thinking they are benevolent, so we will accept them.

But I still don't get the feeling they are "evil", just that they are very matter-of-fact. They do what they feel they have to do in a very dispassionate fashion.
 
I heard a voice ... it was very clear, and just in my head ... Just a pure voice.

Here's an interesting article on hearing voices. According to this, it's pretty common, and doesn't seem as "paranormal" or indicative of mental illness as some may tend to assume.

Suddenly I'm seeing a stream of stuff... pictures, diagrams, ideas, just a bunch of information ... I could understand what everything was, even though most of it made no sense to me ... Then I hear a voice ... It's telling me to write a book about a certain thing I'm being shown ... So I answered back (in my mind) "I don't know if I can do all this..."

You don't have to write a book, but could you detail some of the "information" that was revealed to you--like your visionary experience of a chain pipe wrench? There's not a whole lot to go on here, and more details might help.

Thanks.
 
Here's an interesting article on hearing voices. According to this, it's pretty common, and doesn't seem as "paranormal" or indicative of mental illness as some may tend to assume.

That's something quite different, because I don't normally hear voices, even in stressful situations. I talk to myself, but I hear my own voice in my head.

And the voice I heard was giving me information that I hadn't had prior to the voice. It was like a radio in my head. Very odd. It wasn't me thinking about a voice.. it was an outside source. Kind of like watching TV, and then a CB radio breaks into the audio.

Also during the guitar incident, it took control of my will. I had no choice but to look where I was told and do what I was supposed to.

You don't have to write a book, but could you detail some of the "information" that was revealed to you--like your visionary experience of a chain pipe wrench? There's not a whole lot to go on here, and more details might help.

Well, I can't give any more info, because I don't have it. The pipe wrench was when I was about 13 ... I'm 51 now. I no longer remember any of the details. At the time I could see the entire thing, and it was quite elaborate. It had a ratchet action and all. But the thing I want to stress is that it was something I would not have been able to think of on my own. I'm smart and clever, and enjoy making things, but that was something out of the blue, and at an age when I knew nothing about mechanics.

The book thing... once again, I was being shown an amazing amount of information of all kinds. At the time I was being shown all this stuff, I understood everything. I could see that it was just way beyond anything we know. It was so much stuff.. and can't even remember any of it. Nothing. I have vague memories of the general look of a few things. I remember seeing a mechanical drawing of some kind of machine, on a white background. But I also remember some kind of images.. of places or something. As I said I have only retained very vague memories.

The main thing I was told, that I was supposed to write a book about... same deal. I remembered it until I became tired and laid down. I wasn't tired when this was happening, just when I said I didn't think I could write the book.

I'm curious if the memory could be recovered. But I have no conscious recollection of it.
 
From Mr. Bass- A lot of good points have been brought up, and one in particular strikes a chord. I think it is pretty much a given that witnesses come to both these gentlemen with some belief in themselves as possible abductees. I think Eddie Bullard,who has done some interesting work in this area,has shown statistically that the effect of the hypnotist on their subject's stories and recall is minimal- check out his study titled The Sympathetic Ear. Also it should not be forgotten that a fairly large percentage of abduction stories are remembered either mainly or entirely without hypnosis- The Travis Walton,Pascagoula and Kelly Cahill cases are good examples. And there are not a few multiple witness cases among them as well. A dismissive attitude to abduction research as a whole will bear no fruit- even if the two eminent gentlemen involved made some claims that are not strictly provable and subject to other interpretations:shy: Cheers!
 
Does anyone know if there is any additional information available on the symbols that Hopkins uses to validate abduction cases? He also discussed them briefly in Sight Unseen. He stated on a different interview he was going to make them public.
 
As far as I know, Budd has pretty much kept that information to himself. He believes it is necessary to do so to check the authenticity of claims about symbols seen by other abductees. I see his point but at some point, soon, I hope he will share it ,as it can be most persuasive if there are striking similarities between abductees in these reported symbols:exclamation:
 
As far as I know, Budd has pretty much kept that information to himself. He believes it is necessary to do so to check the authenticity of claims about symbols seen by other abductees. I see his point but at some point, soon, I hope he will share it ,as it can be most persuasive if there are striking similarities between abductees in these reported symbols:exclamation:
 
Alien abductions : so much fuzz , evidence : ZERO
Wait until it happens to you, and then come back and talk to us about lack of evidence. Will people believe you? Probably not. But you won't care about what they think, because you know what happened to you.
You don't have to believe that it's going on, but a large number of people are having this experience, and the details match too much to make it a coincidence.
It's frustrating that no one can get any hard evidence, but that doesn't mean it's not happening.
 
Wait until it happens to you, and then come back and talk to us about lack of evidence. Will people believe you? Probably not. But you won't care about what they think, because you know what happened to you.
You don't have to believe that it's going on, but a large number of people are having this experience, and the details match too much to make it a coincidence.
It's frustrating that no one can get any hard evidence, but that doesn't mean it's not happening.

I totally believe that a lot of alleged abductions are some kind of sleep-paralysis type events, I know this because I had one myself. And, I think there is a large proportion of the 'me-too' in it all - the attention seeking bored housewife type of deal.

But DavidRavenMoon, I agree with your post in as much as that, even taking into account the explanations I have just given, there are still far far too many reports to dismiss them all.

There is just no way that all the people citing alien abduction are doing it for attention. They do not make money or attain fame from their claims -in fact, publicly stating such claims could have serious negative consequences for someone and it doesn't really have an upside that would make it something worth lying about. No, I think there might be several distinct things going on, very possibly including real abductions in some cases (we, humans abduct animals for research, therefore I have no problem believing that if ET races are visiting earth, they no doubt would abduct some humans for testing purposes too).

I suppose it's a baby/bathwater type of deal. After discarding a huge number of dodgy reports, we are still left with a significant number of compelling cases from people otherwise considered honest and truthful.
 
I know they exist : i saw a Belgium triangle years ago.But , MILLIONS are abducted and there is NO evidence , not a tiny bit ?Come on...
 
Goggs, are you familiar with Martin Cannon's paper, The Controllers?

The Controllers

I too have felt that after following the AA phenomena for a good while "something" is unquestionably happening, but what exactly remains a mystery. I put forth the notion that Martin Cannon researched and wrote about via his paper as just one possibility. I too believe that possibly more than one cause is at work with respect to AA. It's a fascinating struggle in terms of consideration to say the least. I would love to just take Fowler, Hopkins, Mack, et al. at the face value of what their writings and research contends, but too many variables and questions arise via both informational collecting methodology as well as the subject matter themselves. I do respect the work of several of these men greatly however, despite the recent hypnosis confabulation facts that have come to the surface.

One thing I learned a LONG time ago (relative to my short life) is that to never underestimate the power and ability of mankind itself. Especially considering the fact that various ages of an extremely developed and advanced mankind have been shown in theory to have been cataclysmically wiped off the face of the planet in large numbers in times far previous to our own.
 
Goggs, are you familiar with Martin Cannon's paper, The Controllers?

The Controllers

I too have felt that after following the AA phenomena for a good while "something" is unquestionably happening, but what exactly remains a mystery. I put forth the notion that Martin Cannon researched and wrote about via his paper as just one possibility. I too believe that possibly more than one cause is at work with respect to AA. It's a fascinating struggle in terms of consideration to say the least. I would love to just take Fowler, Hopkins, Mack, et al. at the face value of what their writings and research contends, but too many variables and questions arise via both informational collecting methodology as well as the subject matter themselves. I do respect the work of several of these men greatly however, despite the recent hypnosis confabulation facts that have come to the surface.

One thing I learned a LONG time ago (relative to my short life) is that to never underestimate the power and ability of mankind itself. Especially considering the fact that various ages of an extremely developed and advanced mankind have been shown in theory to have been cataclysmically wiped off the face of the planet in large numbers in times far previous to our own.


@Jeff - No, I was completely unaware of this and I am extremely grateful that you posted the link - exactly the kind of thing that has me hooked on this forum. The combined knowledge of where to get knowledge of all the forum members who post links etc, is formidable. Here in the forum, for such things there are no censors, no certificates or membership outwith the forum is needed so as long as we are willing to openly read both sides of an argument, the hope is that we can extract grains of truth to build a bigger picture of what might be going on in all these esoteric subjects.

There is a lot to digest in this work, I have heard of many of the points before, just not this particular authors. There are a couple of times when the author let's himself down a bit by making absolute statements, but those are in keeping with his views and it's only really nitpicking by myself, as on the whole the work is very well thought/laid out and anyone with a modicum of interest in the abduction phenomena should read this piece. An example of where he goes astray once is that he, like most of us from time to time, ascribe human values to what an ET race may or may not do. Until 'they' land on the lawn and we get to meet them, we cannot really make assumptions as to their morality etc. To at once point at the contradiction that they are supposed to be caring space brothers but who inflict pain and kidnap us, is to assume they aren't just completely without morality, saying whatever they think will satisfy an abductee to make them more pliable.
But as I said, that is small potatoes and the piece has plenty value and I enjoyed reading it!

Thanks,

Goggs
 
I know they exist : i saw a Belgium triangle years ago.But , MILLIONS are abducted and there is NO evidence , not a tiny bit ?Come on...

I'm not sure about the millions bit- but what type of evidence would you expect? A tool swiped from a saucer before the subject is returned? The craft to stall in someones backyard? Even if we were to dismiss all data from hypnosis, we still have those cases where multiple witnesses view a craft before paralysis sets in- watching "them" enter the home or area- "coming to" and realizing missing time. No hypnotherapy to recall these particular events- A pattern that repeats itself.
I don't see how anyone could be in doubt that something extraordinary has been going on.
 
...Martin Cannon's paper, The Controllers?.
A must read for anyone that wonders about the severe lack of transparency re: gov mind-control research and potential state-of-the-art capabilities... A good catch and reminder to get up 2 speed. I know, "conspiracy theories" related to HAARP and the GWEN tower system's potential capabilities for societal control/manipulation is all sci-fi, right? Even if they could— They wouldn't DARE, would they? ;)
 
Why come to the conclusion, assuming the hybrid program is actually taking place, the earth is being populated with these cross breeds? That theory puts images of the movie "Coneheads" for me- and it seems more plausible to speculate that such a program would be used to populate another "earth like" planet in our solar system. To infiltrate earth through such a program would have been much more possible a hundred years ago.
 
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