June 28, 2015 — Richard Dolan

[Burnt State]

I probably have more hands on contact with people who work or worked at Area 51 and Tonopah or the Skunk Works doing what is called Back engineering or taking photos of the craft called UFOs than anyone here. Lived next to the Nellis Base which does not officially exist. All of it is Earth technology and always was. I used to think we did not have the means to do such things in the early 1900s or in ancient times. I know that is not true now.

Ok, hold up for a second here. Just how do you know just how many of us have hands on contacts and/or are connected to backyard UFO engineering programs? For example I for one have not just one but at least two skunks that work, and one rabbit that keeps eating my beans. So I think there should at least be a résumé call out to see just how many of us live next to non-existent bases and identify just how many ancient alien gardeners we all know. Have you seen @mike 's peppers? Tell me those are from earth!?

This is the PBS Victory Garden thread, right? Geez I miss that guy with the beard and the glasses, he was so damn enthusiastic all the time.

 

[Robert Baird]

LOL

 

[DissectionStalker]

If Ufology were more sophisticated and educated in the ways our psychology works, better evaluations of sightings and abduction reports would be possible.

We live in a society that pays BILLIONs, even TRILLIONs, to be entertained about Alien memes. The 1980 Roswell rebirth is "proof enough" how the military can fabricate this Mythology on an ongoing basis for "need to know" reasons we still don't know. Doty and Moore are the Open Face to this 1980 genesis, BUT we still don't know what the hell is going on! Did they know??? I do NOT think they were ever told the truth. There are a very few humans in the know that used these people to attempt to accomplish something. I just do NOT think it has anything to do with ET on our planet near Roswell as a crash or elsewhere during 1947 as sightings and crashes, nor does ET in 1980 Roswell as presented in sensational books starting with Berliz and Moore. Air Force OSI controlled many of these players in the decade of the 80's. IF anyone is associated with Kirkland Air Force base, and other military related research, such as, Los Alamos or Sandia Labs, THEN you had better put your thinking caps on about what these people are really up to. Believe me, YOU do NOT have a need to know, and they will Mind Frack and Phuck you every time that I'm aware of.

Since we now live in an Entertainment driven society where Science Fiction is the new Alien-God, and few people really know much about serious science other than a lot of theoretical science that is spoon fed as Entertainment on the Science channel [and that ilk] that is still not even realistic and is far far from proven about much of the Entertainment speculation being done about AI, nanotech, faster than light related star transit, transhumanism, the nature of reality, etc.

How do we get out of this Fantasy Entertainment ditch or rut? HUGE BRAIN TRUSTS now exist that make TRILLIONS of dollars off ET. Let's face it. Humans are EXTREMELY religious creatures, and we can and do manifest religious visions. ET-UFO's are being manifested as such in our current era just as Vallee has identified how this meme morphs throughout history much to the consternation of someone that has seen an ET-UFO such as Constance believes she has seen.

My great concern is I see The Storytellers to be the Ultimate Power in our modern era. The TRUTH is total bullshit and not wanted at all. These are the Kings and Queens of days gone by. They control what we think and believe through Mass Media, and the new battleground is going to be the World Mind of the Internet for the foreseeable future for at least several generations or more to come barring a natural or man made disaster from an EMP [or other destructive power] that can take-out the power grid and/or our smart phones/computers.

A new Master Race is already in control, and they are The Storytellers.

 

[Robert Baird]

Dear Stalker

I look forward to further discourse on Transhumanism, Gravitational Wave and CERN along with other advancements in managing reality or manifesting same. I thought we would do it on the thread we started to do it. I certainly have presented a varied number of faster than light facts, usages, and research data. I have more to present including Quantum Teleporting, Time Travel and much more not yet in actual applications including the Jumbotrons at major sporting events since a decade ago.

Do you deny the research which dumped the contents of the human brain onto a computer chip in 1999? Are you a mathematical wizard able to debate same? I will be glad to strenuously carry your formulae and debunking of their math to their sites and places - including Nik Bostrom the Professor in London who started Transhumanism. I have read what you said about Kurzweil - it is no argument it is character assassination.

Your Brain Trust verbiage is reminiscent of those who idiotically blame everything on the Illuminati. Yes, it is true that a lot of your concerns about the moral issues are real and it is right to challenge them.

But in the matter of Moral Philosophy Bostrom is very good. I will gladly place his thought next to yours. He makes a good point (as an example) that humanity has an obligation to save the planet for other lifeforms in the future. Today people are behaving as idiots or to quote Hobbes "beasts with red cheeks" as they assert inalienable rights to bear children while preparing NO PLAN to manage their resources or the Earth itself. This Moral Prerogative is paramount - we must save life on Earth even if humans are replaced by robots (sentient or not).

The Movies you are concerned about are preparing humanity for a reality which will occur soon. Futurescape did not fully disclose - as I have said, the full nature of the science I have followed for four decades at very high levels. It is easy to state things not in evidence or engage in ad hominems, but it will not help mankind survive this century, as Hawking again warned in a major article today. He was asking people to join those Brain Trusts and corporations to work from within and cause change.

 

[DissectionStalker]

Do you deny the research which dumped the contents of the human brain onto a computer chip in 1999?

You should start a thread topic about this science FICTION assertion, and present it as science FACT as you seem to so dare to do above.

 

[Randall]

So your mind (Memes and programs) are still working without fact or reason ...

There's no indicator who you're addressing in the above comment, though it seems like it's probably me. If so, please confirm and I'll follow-up with a proper response.

 

[Randall]

Rather than discrediting reports, an educated evaluation of the possible psychological factors that may color or distort memories of sightings or abduction experiences can only render the reports that pass the test more credible.

It's no surprise that educated psychologists dismiss abductees' "memories." Because a memory is not always a memory, no matter how emotional and sincere the person is who believes what he or she is "recalling." There are a multitude of psychological and neurological explanations that can account for sightings of ET or abduction narratives, of which Ufology seems to be almost completely unaware.

No research is respectable when it ignores what science already knows about how perceptions are distorted.

Very good points. But I'd hesitate to paint the field with quite as wide a brush as you have. I think it's safe to say that there are others in the field besides myself who are more skeptical of abductees claims, especially if those claims are hinged on hypnotic recall of allegedly suppressed or repressed memories. One of the things that has been suggested by our group is to add a mnemonic factor to rating cases where the type of memory associated with a sighting is correlated with other factors to produce a confidence rating.

You can view the whole page and explanation on the USI website on the Sighting page. Basically we suggest assigning a zero confidence rating to sightings resulting from altered states of consciousness unless they can be correlated with something more objective like multiple witnesses and/or objective evidence. I've received positive commentary on this approach, but have yet to see it put into action. We need volunteers to sift through the cases and apply the system. I just don't have the time to do it all myself.

So among serious ufologists, there is an awareness of the memory problem. Mind you, I also tend to find that the problems associated with memory tend to be over exaggerated by skeptics in order to defend their position. If a case cannot be explained away by any other means, then they simply invoke mental problems whether they have any psychological evaluations to back them up or not. This is IMO equally irresponsible. Plus there is a flip-side to the issue of memory as evidence, and that is that while there can be problems with memory, it does facilitate intelligent analysis that leads to accurate conclusions on a daily basis.

In fact, human memory is actually downright amazing and if it didn't work so well, I doubt we'd have evolved this far. Normal healthy people can recall details of many experiences, often from years in the past, and with perfect accuracy. For example I can still remember the address of the house I lived in as a child. We moved away from it when I was about seven years old. I haven't been there in years, yet today, I could still easily navigate my way back to it without a map. There are many many other examples in our everyday lives. The fact is. Most of the time our memory serves us very well.

Lastly, let's not forget that other types of memory, like film and electronic data devices are also susceptible to damage, corruption, and failure. I've seen many disk drives and memory chips fail during my work as a PC tech. So the implied notion that human memory is the worst kind of evidence isn't necessarily true.

 

[Burnt State]

My great concern is I see The Storytellers to be the Ultimate Power in our modern era. The TRUTH is total bullshit and not wanted at all. These are the Kings and Queens of days gone by. They control what we think and believe through Mass Media, and the new battleground is going to be the World Mind of the Internet for the foreseeable future for at least several generations or more to come barring a natural or man made disaster from an EMP [or other destructive power] that can take-out the power grid and/or our smart phones/computers.

A new Master Race is already in control, and they are The Storytellers.

A master race of storytellers...I think you've got something there, a kind of Lovecraftian tale of warning, or could be PKD relaying the signal back to the masses, chanting in rhythm, changing our beliefs with just words. But a question - has it not always been this way? Have we not always been driven by the story, the one we have faith in, the one we were instructed to believe, the one that haunts us, like a Babadook (a bad book) in our minds?

We have the power to create our own narrative, choose which story we want to believe, rewrite it in mid-sentence. Yes, the mass media has been exceptional at drilling consumption into our minds, creating needs we don't really have, but now we live in the memeplex where we can continue to absorb ideas, amoeba like, into our gelatinous minds. Or we can be producers of our own content, be quite particular about the signal, and now that TV is mostly dying, we seem to be both narcissistic in our digital glory and we can access or create any story we desire. The possibilities are limitless.

Where the master race of storytellers thrive, as we watch consumption turn into boredom, is the narrative of militarism and fear. Paranoia and surveillance are close seconds. But that story told by propaganda and bombs and walls - those are the ones we need to be careful with as they kill people by just pushing buttons now, and then legitimize it all to us later on. "The Drones are Good. All Hail the Drones." Like the narrative of the gun in America, that story is not just an archetype, it is the defining story. We need and deserve better than these hack writers and all their patriarchal nihilism.

 

[Robert Baird]

Dear DS

Already created that thread and you have already responded to it. In fact I refer to it and your response in the post you quoted me from above.

Dear Ufology

Yes, I was saying your memes (and more) are what causes you to lose the scientific mind and allow the ego to rule you.

Dear Burnt

Yes, the Bards, Narmer, Urantia, Dune and Tolkein combine in his PKD alternate reality. It is fine to go there in dream state and I do gain insight and even succour there. Lewis Carroll (Alice and those Rabbit Holes) was a mathematician who I heard a million or two people had followed into that realm - physically they said (IN California). I will go get a little thread on it for you. Can't say I believe any of it - can't say I do not.

Alice in Wonderland - Dimensional Travel

 

[Randall]

Dear Ufology, Yes, I was saying your memes (and more) are what causes you to lose the scientific mind and allow the ego to rule you.

Please return to my post ( here ) and explain where my reasoning is flawed using references to what I've said rather than simply issuing judgement calls. Until you've done that, your response carries no weight with respect to that issue.

 

[Robert Baird]

Dear Ufology

Here is why I said it. The post you later made also is unconvincing and I referred you to another thread more suited to the discussion. I am tired of putting all manner of the same information in ten places when people have asked for threads to be on topic.

1. Great post. As someone who unapologetically considers himself to be a ufologist, I completely agree. I've made it a point to consider the psychology involved, and it can become a very complex discussion because there are so many facets to it. However, in the end, I am still convinced that alien craft ( UFOs ) aren't simply a psychological manifestation, but are objectively real material objects.
2. 
   
3. Are you sure they are alien?
   
   If you are sure of that I would love to hear or see you explain the technology so we can use it to get to Mars or start our space colonizing program. I started a thread which includes my ideas on that possibility. And of course, if we can colonize space it is almost certain millions of other sentient creatures can too.

 

[Randall]

Dear Ufology

Here is why I said it. The post you later made also is unconvincing and I referred you to another thread more suited to the discussion. I am tired of putting all manner of the same information in ten places when people have asked for threads to be on topic.

1. Great post. As someone who unapologetically considers himself to be a ufologist, I completely agree. I've made it a point to consider the psychology involved, and it can become a very complex discussion because there are so many facets to it. However, in the end, I am still convinced that alien craft ( UFOs ) aren't simply a psychological manifestation, but are objectively real material objects.
2. 
   
3. Are you sure they are alien?
   
   If you are sure of that I would love to hear or see you explain the technology so we can use it to get to Mars or start our space colonizing program. I started a thread which includes my ideas on that possibility. And of course, if we can colonize space it is almost certain millions of other sentient creatures can too.

Your response still doesn't explain your position. It merely quotes from the discussion, and it leaves out my response, which you simply call "unconvincing" without providing any reasons why. So unfortunately, once again, your response contributes very little to the discussion. Please try again. Be specific. BTW: I appreciate that having to repeat one's self can be time consuming, however I've done it many times myself in order to make sure I'm being clear. I suggest that you insert links where you want to refer to past information, and to quote or tag participants when responding to them so that they are alerted to your post. To tag a member simply put an @ in front of their name and the system will automatically insert the tag. Quotes can be inserted using the Quote link on the member's post or inserted manually using the URL and the Insert Link function on the editor.

 

[Robert Baird]

Dear U

Specifically I do not wish to engage in off topic discussions upsetting this thread, and I would like to see proof of alien technology (craft) that you have' in the thread I set up for serious and useful applications thereof.

 

[Randall]

Again, if you would supply links to the locations you are referencing within the same posts you mention them, it would make responding quicker and easier. I don't want to have to waste time scanning back through your posts to find the threads you mention and guess which one you mean, and since you never mentioned the title, I can't even look it up in the search. I suspect that were looking at the issue from two different angles, each of which make sense within their own context, and that by understanding that gap, we'd probably end up agreeing with each other, but I can't be certain of that without further discussion.

 

[Robert Baird]

You do know what the thread is and we have had numerous posts back and forth including you saying I was wrong about NASA saying only one planet comes close to being what they are looking for and saying I should do better research. Then you supplied a source - which proved I was right - and you have yet to acknowledge your ego is at stake - not mine as you suggested.

Red Herrings here will get you nowhere, with me. Go there and back up your statements or address the facts I present.

 

[Randall]

You do know what the thread is and we have had numerous posts back and forth including you saying I was wrong about NASA saying only one planet comes close to being what they are looking for and saying I should do better research. Then you supplied a source - which proved I was right - and you have yet to acknowledge your ego is at stake - not mine as you suggested.

Red Herrings here will get you nowhere, with me. Go there and back up your statements or address the facts I present.

Would it not have been simpler to have just posted the link? Your clue about NASA might help me locate the right thread, but the rest of your response was pointless.

 

[wwkirk]

Would it not have been simpler to have just posted the link? Your clue about NASA might help me locate the right thread, but the rest of your response was pointless.

I agree. I would like to view the thread, but I don't know which one it is.

 

[Burnt State]

When evaluating the ETH it's important to bear in mind that our spacecraft are currently travelling billions of miles away from Earth.

When the New Horizons probe reaches Pluto, about 3 BILLION miles from Earth, it will be the fifth craft to head so far away from Earth (the other ones being Pioneer 10 and Pioneer 11, and Voyager 1 and Voyager 2, which are either in the outer solar system or in the case of Voyager 1, interstellar space.)

Doesn't this make it appear more likely that extra-terrestrial craft are reaching Earth? And probably not piloted by live crews?

If we're not the first sentient life form to show up in the Milky Way and the galaxy is possibly teeming with advanced species then Wargo's theory of a network of self-replicating probes seeking out total information control makes good sense. Shipping bodies across time and space makes little sense. As his theory continues, the interactivity with such probes could form the basis of what we perceive as high strange encounters, alien craft etc.. From their end it might just be psych experiments, a control system that dabbles with us and responds to our escalations of violence, extinctions of life forms and planetary toxicity. This might help to explain the description of the diversity of robotic like lifeforms, their highly elusive and ephemeral nature along with other transient features of the phenomenon. If you are living in a civilization of high technology then I'm not sure why lifeforms would risk space travel when everything you want to know or experience can be ascertained virtually. It could be all about the probe at the end of the ufological day. But the other issue is that few of our paradigms make much sense if we are trying to plumb the minds of type II or III civilizations. Perhaps only basic parallels might apply such as seeking out knowledge and information.

 

[dmanister]

It should be added to the list of contraindications for alien life forms traveling to Earth the possibility of their being infected by diseases for which they have no immunity. Look what happened to Native peoples here when they were exposed to foreign invaders.

The mathematical probality for species from distant planets being biologically identical to Earth-dwellers has to be infinitely small. They would have to have evolved in a completely Earthlike environment, with exactly the same percentages of gases in the atmosphere, the same gravity, microbes, parasites, and other factors that affect survival. Not bloody likely.

The scenario often reported of aliens roaming outside their craft, scooping up samples and so forth is ludicrous. At the very least they would wear breathing masks and spacesuits. But why go to the trouble when drones could gather samples? As for the humanoids being robots fashioned in our image, what would be the point of that? The sight of them would be more more terrifying than seeing robotic devices wouldn't it?

Anecdotes about aliens seem to be contaminated by popular narratives and personal nightmares, and limited by what our imaginations can create based on our own achievements in space exploration. Now that we have sent high-performing drones billions of miles through space, often successfully landing and sending data back to us, we may find that narratives about alien sightings on Earth change accordingly.

 

[Robert Baird]

True, the cultural imagery becomes what dreams and visions are made from. It has always been the case, and certain predators take advantage of gullible people. Do you think it is more a case of CIA (or other alphabet soup agencies) or people like the priesthoods of old who fomented many of the same fears, repressed hopes (sex) and the like?