June 28, 2015 — Richard Dolan

[dmanister]

It seems to me that a good way forward in developing UFO and abduction data is to establish some simple, basic probabilities, such as the unlikely if not impossible scenario of humanoids from a planet identical to ours in every way roaming around unprotected in our atmosphere.

It would not require much of a difference to make a planet unlivable for aliens -- think of Earthlings trying to explore the top of Mt Everest without the help of additional oxygen, for example, right here on our own planet. (True the Sherpas can do it, but someone who isn't used to thin air cannot, if you get my point.) The likelihood is that Earth would not match the aliens' living conditions so exactly that they would be able to walk easily given our gravity, and breathe our air, let alone be protected against our bacteria and viruses.

We could eliminate scores of sightings and abduction reports by ruling out the ones that are laughably ignorant of the imperatives of space travel to other planets.

 

[Robert Baird]

Would you also eliminate any that crash - because if a craft can get to earth from light years away - it must have shields. I guess you could say a wormhole could do the trick but I have a very hard time buying any of it anyway. Because there is a logical historical precedent for what is going on - manipulation by cultist leaders like all religions have always been if they had a g-d or head boogeyman.

And there never has been a separation of church and state as clearly demonstrated by a State Policy chief named Francis Fukayama in his book The End of History and the Last Man. A title now become prophetic unless you have wealth enough to be part of the floating city tax dodger crowd.

 

[dmanister]

Would you also eliminate any that crash - because if a craft can get to earth from light years away - it must have shields. I guess you could say a wormhole could do the trick but I have a very hard time buying any of it anyway. Because there is a logical historical precedent for what is going on - manipulation by cultist leaders like all religions have always been if they had a g-d or head boogeyman.

And there never has been a separation of church and state as clearly demonstrated by a State Policy chief named Francis Fukayama in his book The End of History and the Last Man. A title now become prophetic unless you have wealth enough to be part of the floating city tax dodger crowd.

It's difficult to prove something did NOT happen, but once our own achievements in space exploration become common knowledge it may seem unlikely that ET bodies are lying around at the sites of crashed spacecraft that travelled here from across the universe.

If we start by seriously, scientifically questioning the crash and live alien aspect of the ETH, we'll take an important first step in bringing reason to bear on the subject.

 

[DissectionStalker]

If we start by seriously, scientifically questioning the crash and live alien aspect of the ETH, we'll take an important first step in bringing reason to bear on the subject.

People are unbelievably naive about potential "need to know" black-ops programs that are not only forbidden for public knowledge, but are also HIGHLY compartmentalized "above top secret" within the military and secret intelligence agencies too. Only a very few people knew the truth about Roswell or Socorro, but it is extremely likely 99.9999999% these events have nothing to do with ET except to be used as "a cover" or for some other human manipulative purposes.

Also, there are brain [and metabolic?] differences with some of these "experiencers" that includes abnormalities or mental health issues or genetics too. That does not mean these people can not function very well with daily life, but some become overwhelmed too. For example, Constance has seen UFO's, and she is absolutely convinced these are of ET origin. She posts here all the time, and the ET-UFO's are a huge part of her life now. I think she's been seriously researching this since the late 1990's. I'm sure you listened to the recent interview with Ray Hernandez, and his experiences have changed his life entirely since his experiences.

So, my point is "seeing is believing" for many people, and I honestly believe these images are certainly being seen within their minds. Is it solely generated from within the mind, or is there some kind of external stimulus too? Certainly the PTB [of many varieties -private & gov] would be EXTREMELY interested in creating such "mind control" technologies to use for a variety of manipulative reasons.

Even if there is some other external stimulus's causing these sightings that will only serve to escalate the PTB to do it too. You should accept this to be a fact, imo, because every potential mind weapon will be researched and tested too. Deployment will be done at least for top secret experimentation and black-ops. No society will find these mind weapons acceptable for known use, so these weapons must be kept unknown to everyone. It's need to know only.

What's worse? Private PTB would wield enormous power with such technologies. Imagine if that power is in the hands of some religious or ET-UFO cult or some "secret power trip" groups or individuals.

 

[Robert Baird]

Dear D

I have a hard time determining what you mean. "Once our own achievements in space exploration become common knowledge" could mean many things.

Are you suggesting all we have seen from the media is a cover up and all the rockets bursting onto flames or Challenger lies about the astronauts dying immediately are pure SPIN?

"It may seem unlikely that ET bodies are lying around etc." seems easy to prove DID not happen.

I think your last sentence is bang on, but there are other ways that CONTACT and knowledge can be sent from other parts of universe. Quantum teleporting is real and being used in industrial and commercial products - for example. The great adepts of most disciplines and religions have made some pretty fantastic claims - could it be true? I tend to believe some of them actually can travel (as the Beatles sang) to Venus and Mars. Not their fake guru Mahesh or the Bagwhan and so many other fakirs - but Vivekananda and aboriginal chiefs and shamans.

Some of it is in what Martin Rees says (He is the Royal Astronomer - and he changes his mind as facts present anew.) about a doppleganger. Some of it is in folding of space as Einstein said. His associates Gödel and Fuller certainly are an inspiration for my thinking on the matter.

 

[Robert Baird]

Dear DS

What you say here has been going on for many millennia. At least what "James Joyce called a 5,000 year nightmare". According to the inspiration for the Star Wars movies. I know he would revise his age and the time frame of our advancement in technology and civilized manipulative acumen by at least 10,000 years of he saw what we have discovered in the last decade.

"So, my point is "seeing is believing" for many people, and I honestly believe these images are certainly being seen within their minds. Is it solely generated from within the mind, or is there some kind of external stimulus too? Certainly the PTB [of many varieties -private & gov] would be EXTREMELY interested in creating such "mind control" technologies to use for a variety of manipulative reasons."

I am sure you know ego and money goes a long way with the 'believer' crowd too.

 

[dmanister]

First things first. Before we can determine what is mind control, or disinfo masking black ops, it's crucial to ascertain the likelihood of live ETs piloting spacecraft across the universe. We can only reason from known data, such as our own space exploration. We sent live crews to the moon, but Hubble, Voyager and Far Horizon performed amazing unmanned feats. The most expedient way of exploring outer space is without live crews.

If we can travel billions of miles into interstellar space, it's likely other planets are exploring Earth, isn't it? And very likely that grays and reptilians and Nordics and all other alien visitors are nightmare visions projected on the external world by troubled human minds.

 

[wwkirk]

First things first. Before we can determine what is mind control, or disinfo masking black ops, it's crucial to ascertain the likelihood of live ETs piloting spacecraft across the universe. We can only reason from known data, such as our own space exploration. We sent live crews to the moon, but Hubble, Voyager and Far Horizon performed amazing unmanned feats. The most expedient way of exploring outer space is without live crews.

If we can travel billions of miles into interstellar space, it's likely other planets are exploring Earth, isn't it? And very likely that grays and reptilians and Nordics and all other alien visitors are nightmare visions projected on the external world by troubled human minds.

Grays may be androids.

 

[DissectionStalker]

First things first. Before we can determine what is mind control, or disinfo masking black ops, it's crucial to ascertain the likelihood of live ETs piloting spacecraft across the universe. We can only reason from known data, such as our own space exploration. We sent live crews to the moon, but Hubble, Voyager and Far Horizon performed amazing unmanned feats. The most expedient way of exploring outer space is without live crews.

If we can travel billions of miles into interstellar space, it's likely other planets are exploring Earth, isn't it? And very likely that grays and reptilians and Nordics and all other alien visitors are nightmare visions projected on the external world by troubled human minds.

Humans will no doubt try to colonize other planets outside our solar system, but not in the near term. Consider this... within a hundred years at the going rate of studying the Universe we will have the technology to discover intelligent life [with technology relating to ours] throughout our galaxy.

Any advanced intelligence with similar abilities and interests in the Universe will have long since discovered life on our planet. We would have been explored by probes or other means within the last billion years or so. I definitely keep an open mind about that, so I maintain an interest in ET. I do absolutely think our planet has already been discovered by intelligent life ASSUMING our kind of intelligent life is not extremely rare. Don't forget and keep in mind there is no reason intelligent life necessarily has to follow down a path we Humans have taken. We've had millions [or billions?] of life forms on our planet and only one came into being by shear accident that does what we do. We are EXTREMELY rare on our planet.

I certainly agree with most of your ideas, but consider this too. Mind control is far more subtle than you might imagine it to be. I think The Storytellers of science fiction are doing most of the Mind Control with pushing future tech and beliefs about it in the direction these PTB want it to go. Study Kurzweil and you'll see he is the most recent prophet pushing these ideas about Transhumanism and wild beliefs in AI, nanotech, etc. The Singularity. Watch the TV series Exant on prime time to see a lot of their ideas being played out. That's only one of many endless programs on SyFy and Science History Channels ideas being "mind controlled" on viewers. I honestly believe this is where the "brain washing" is happening through media entertainment. These ARE the REAL Brain Trusts of Super Powers. This is where the PTB control the most through these Storytellers. It's always been that way too except through different means in the past. Throw-in the World Mind of the Internet combined with the visual media powers of entertainment. and the PTB have reached an apex in Mind Control that has never been possible in the history of Humankind.

All the PTB have to do now is start making REAL mind control weapons that can target specific people or groups of people, and they can truly create any reality they desire. It's all a war being fought to create Brain Trusts to act and create on their behalf. There are extreme dangers, imo. I see the Alien ET mythology of science fiction being used by "need to know" PTB and other clandestine groups that are private media, religious Alien/God Alien/Devil belief agendas, or within covert "secret societies", or within secret government mind weapons development.

If you watch Futurescape "I Know What You're Thinking", then you will understand what the PTB Brain Trusts are attempting to do.

I wonder if most people think I'm just "crazy paranoid" staying on these themes, or do they see the potential dangers too?

 

[Burnt State]

Grays may be androids.

This idea has been around for a while and I wonder about its feasibility in terms of use of resources. Many contact cases involve actual robot like reports, or alien life forms that are characterized as unfeeling, robotic in movement and communications or lack thereof etc. but I have to ask, why bother? If you are an advanced species with galactic space faring capacities why not just send your invisible, juiced up next generation nano-tech 12.0 devices and gather all you need? Why bother risking resources by sending those clumsy robots or A.I. through space. There must be more sophisticated & economical ways to gather information.

 

[DissectionStalker]

Any advanced intelligence with similar abilities and interests in the Universe will have long since discovered life on our planet. We would have been explored by probes or other means within the last billion years or so. But is that very likely? Here are some good reasons to consider that it probably never happened...

Don't forget and keep in mind there is no reason intelligent life necessarily has to follow down a path we Humans have taken. We've had millions [or billions?] of life forms on our planet and only one came into being by sheer accident that does what we do. We are EXTREMELY rare on our planet. The odds are astronomical against Human intelligence happening.

We may be far more unique than most people believe. We needed Jupiter, our moon, and asteroids or comet impacts to create the conditions for Humans to come into existence. The odds are astronomical against an intelligent life form like ours existing just on our planet. It will be the same everywhere else assuming life generates easily enough on planets like ours. Meaning, it will never happen on most life giving planets. Btw, I don't think we've found a match yet in our galaxy of any planet being near identical to ours, nor have we found it within a protective solar system either.

Something tells me we are far more astronomically unique than we are being led to believe. Another "mind control" objective that aids the PTB and MIC too? Certainly The Storytellers are telling us we are not alone, but are they telling us the truth that intelligent life does not exist as we do? The odds were astronomical against Humans taking form on our planet, and all other millions or billions of life forms here had no need to do what we do. We are likely very alone in the Universe with few intelligent life forms more advanced than we are if we consider what it took to produce Humans on planet Earth. We may even wipe-out our species soon if we can't protect our planet from impacts and the coming ice ages or self-destruction. At the rate we're going we may only have a slim chance of succeeding.

 

[Burnt State]

All the PTB have to do now is start making REAL mind control weapons that can target specific people or groups of people, and they can truly create any reality they desire. It's all a war being fought to create Brain Trusts to act and create on their behalf. There are extreme dangers, imo. I see the Alien ET mythology of science fiction being used by "need to know" PTB and other clandestine groups that are private media, religious Alien/God Alien/Devil belief agendas, or within covert "secret societies", or within secret government mind weapons development.

If you watch Futurescape "I Know What You're Thinking", then you will understand what the PTB Brain Trusts are attempting to do.

I wonder if most people think I'm just "crazy paranoid" staying on these themes, or do they see the potential dangers too?

As free access to communication and information sharing technologies like the ones we use here on the forum increase there is the potential to continually increase the democratization of choice in belief systems, values and the nature of the products we consume. There is also an increasing shift towards power sharing when it comes to how we shape our culture. Economics and capitalism will continue to work on maximizing profits but the power of social opinion increasingly promotes power to the people. I'm not sure how much the crazy paranoia is entirely necessary.

Look at regressive societies and cultures that restrict access to the internet and communications, continue to use public violence as a control mechanism and restrict, imprison, kill or attempt to assasinate voices that dare to rebel against the patriarch, be he Russian, North Korean, Middle Eastern or just plain old religious fanatic. In such environments paranoia keeps you alive.

When you give developed civilizations access to free, unbiased education and a lot of freedom of choice they are less likely to want to believe in an abstract god or conservative religious belief systems with arbitrary control mechanisms. Mind control in the west is pretty low end when you compare cultures. Sure, we're still consumer morons, and we keep the rich richer & imprison the poor. We still have race hatred, rape the women and deny citizenship to those who are not able bodied, but at least we have access to technologies and methodologies to grow social freedom compared to other societies that are walled in. I'd say stupidity and a lack of generational emphasis on education and valuing critical thinking in north america stops us from claiming the freedoms available for the taking.

Perhaps obsessions over UFO's from other planets is an example of the sheer luxury of freedom of thought available in our culture?

 

[Robert Baird]

Dear Burnt

Putting down other religions or areas of the world who have different problems including dealing with Imperialists supporting de-stabilization through secret agencies (See General Zia, The Shah of Iran, Saddam, Osama, The Taliban - who were US agents) to assassinate, steal, rape and pillage., sell opium, does not get to what you think is good education.

In fact the marks received by the US and Canada are pretty low when it comes to comparisons on the normative tests. Those tests are complete frauds as Ivan Illich proved (see article here which I posted on he and McKnight) and social scientists know. You mention critical thinking - not taught! A half nephew of mine only started to take dialectics (critical thinking today) towards the end of his Master's Program in Philosophy. In other disciplines questioning receives less attention and is frowned upon - thus you get the sheeple cults we see here.

When I sat on the oversight committee at a Master's Program rated number one in Canada - we had to decide whether or not to teach English and report writing in every class or make another subject mandatory to pass and get an MBA.

Why must people work within a social framework that values following 'norms' of intellect and has questions on tests rather than judgments of soulful and ethical actual behavior? The book 'Emotional Intelligence' makes a good case for EQ rather than IQ. Kaoru Yamamoto of the University of Colorado describes the making, coaching, and taking of tests seem like all our teachers are learning. He correctly identifies the flawed ability to maintain or generate effective learning by turning the process into unwilling students being force fed by uncharismatic automatons without authority. Most teachers know they are little more than 'glorified baby-sitters' and so they don't want to be held accountable. Accountable to tests that value regurgitation is not accountable to real value. They have lots of good arguments on all sides of the issue because the fundamental premises are hugely flawed.

Some social scientists make a very good point about the purpose of education in our recent history when they note the Industrial Revolution sought workers to punch time clocks and follow the bosses and their minion's orders. The homogenization of memorization being the key to learning assumes something worse than what isn't in evidence. It is not evident that linear logical processes or competency in memory skills is paramount to the functioning character development of productive people. In fact we have ample reason to limit these skills now that hand held or wristwatch sized data bases are able to connect to near total knowledge networks. Forgetting that important point, we must understand what education and teaching really is supposed to achieve. Simple common sense alone would indicate a high priority should exist in the augmentation of interest in learning and the joys it may offer a person throughout their life.

Co-operative and social integrational skills teaching are well enough developed in the science of education and should be given more support. In Canada the word 'co-operative' is used but the purposes of learning style (Take a look at H. Gardner's work which now has eight distinct learning style proficiencies.) and personality differences aren't known by the teachers who think co-operative learning means some kind of teamwork between teachers, students and parents. Group dynamics within the student's core appreciation of purpose and relating to each other is more the point. Seeing the benefits of a good creative spatial competency in another person within the group and learning the most important things are useful creative outputs rather than some goal established by someone outside the group, might have more merit. The compassionate diplomatic and purposeful ethic of net additional value rather than homogenized adherence to hypocritical unquestioned pablum with frequent prejudicial or egoistically infused judgement needs support.



Celebration of relevant new approaches that offer explorations of new perspectives without a sense of black and white answers are seldom found and the character seems to be judged according to how well we imitate or fit the prevailing 'norm'. How can we maintain a desire to explore that is born into the human core courage to know something more than the personal? When will knowing how to cope with sexual, sensual psychological nurturing and other life skills including how to make each other healthier become valued? The old emphasis on individuals enjoying each others different character becomes lost in a maze of peer and social structure. Is it possible that people will learn to read and communicate at different times in their life? Recent research shows that men learn math best, later than women. Language and communication engages the young brain more fully and should be focused upon at the ages before seven. The Bardic schools knew these things and had young people work as jesters and minstrels early in the process.

Physiologically we can say there are 350,000 neural connections possible that become atrophied to the point most people use only half of them. What about thinking? It isn't dumping of data - it requires integrating and making judgments. Perhaps we are encouraging a lack of judgement as an over-compensation against old racial ideologies or because authoritarian religions sought faith-full 'followers'. Maybe it is because the armies of feudal lords wanted hateful and macho murderers; and parenting became a castle for power 'over' rather than nurture FOR the children. Children are not the property of parents as much as they are rightful and important members of the tribe, clan or larger social unit. These things were known in the pre-Christian times when women weren't the property (Hammurabi's Code specifies and Biblical baby-factories enforced) of men.

There may be eight physiological or neurophysiological different core learning style competencies with numerous variations but each of us is capable of learning to augment all of these attributes and appreciating other strengths and weaknesses. Building brotherhood rather than competing against each other is an excellent character-building alternative to established fences or hurdles to jump over. If at the end of five years of school a person still wants to learn and yet has learned little - is that better than a person who has learned 'reading, writing and arithmetic' but thinks they know all they need to know. There were initiatory stages available for lifelong education and soulful growth (The Australian aborigines still have this; and many others do as well.). Beyond seeing what one 'can do'; we do need to establish what one should do. The decision about what we should do is hard to make at some far away central administration center. Beyond teaching the ethical constructs (woefully lacking especially without comparative religion) we should support or enable purposes beyond what generates occupation-oriented proficiency. There is reason to believe that students learn to read and write or compete without a structure to ensure it. Technology exists to allow students to learn much of what is taught in their own time away from the sense of right or wrong and ridicule.

Do I think we should create groups and movement between groups as a key focus on working together and helping each other? Do I think music and performing creates an environment of learning language and communication as well as improving self-esteem. Would I encourage rhetoric and diminish early writing initiatives that force failure through unwarranted structured thinking. Would I hold writing back until the person is able to feel they can do most anything and their brain has fully grown after the age of eight? Would I have lots of schools where students chose what to learn and when? And at the end of some period of time would I make the challenge become how much they can achieve as a unit, group or school against another such unit? If I did want all these things and was seen as 'primitive' because this is the kind of thing the ancient Kelts did: what would I say to those who laughed.



I'd say these schools taught specific memory techniques rather than memorization of unimportant data. This created a skill rather than a mark on some test relating to some often propagandized history. With this skill the memory almost never was an issue and asinine regurgitation of trivia passing as knowledge seldom occurred in people's day to day lives. I'd say the creative urges to perform according to disciplined use of musical instruments, dance and song or other acting skills and craftwork made secure citizens who felt they could help and be useful in their societal group. How would they respond when I told them the clans taught a group responsibility that made it impossible for a child to work their blackmail of emotion on a loving parent, through extended families; and that this led to lawful and respectful behavior? How would they respond when I made it clear that worship was real and that people were encouraged to know the ever-increasing insights that the soul may offer.

How would they respond when I challenged them to find a more egalitarian and nurturing group of people who truly valued the inputs of women and knew they were biologically superior to men or were at least the equal? Yes, women have more endurance, don't faint when wounded, are better diplomats because they use their whole brain and don't get carried away on ego as much. Endurance was a key thing amongst warriors. The child-rearing was shared in a whole family unit and the woman was able to be the leader in all fields of endeavour rather than simply thrown into a one-dimensional role as care-giver or ornament.

Clearly they wouldn't be able to point to a more gifted group of scientists and teachers than the Druidic hierarchy produced. We are still learning or re-discovering what they knew. The 'Lost Chord' and harmonics or the healing techniques of shamans and dream-dancers, is worth our investigation. The wholistic appreciation for nature and all the majesty of love and beauty we have lost through the ministrations of macho models of greed and power, must be re-kindled. The creeds of the present power-oriented churches versus the Keltic Creed must be considered.

 

[Burnt State]

You are obviously unfamiliar with the education systems around the world. North America does ok comparatively. Those 21st century education concepts you are talking about are at work in all districts. Rote memorization went out the door long ago except in backwards international districts that are ruled by religious ideologies as opposed to maximizing resilience, innovation, creativity, collaboration, communication and technological skills using the SAMR Model. That's becoming ubiquitous education lingo lately. Finland still rocks in terms of its hgh end pedagogy and valuing teachers as professionals, their rejection of standardized testing, primacy of the family in the early years of ego & esteem development, but they're still coming to visit Ontario to marvel at our TLLP (teacher leadership and learning program) to see how we innovate amongst teachers without state intervention but lots of state support. But you know you are pretty nearby the most innovative teaching district in N.A. found in Alberta. I've been using their ahead of the curve model for 15 years. But aside from the International Baccalureate (I.B.) standard adopted globally including the middle east, the fact is kids from the east who can afford it come to the west to get educated at all levels, so i'm not sure what you are on about. Have you seen the delusional state sponsored curriculum by the Taliban or in North Korea, though at least they let the girls go to school? Increasingly the stat in N.A. is that 1 in 4 kids go to private schools where they take I.B. and A.P. standards getting the best system money can buy globally. That's why increasingly I'm teaching kids from Dubai, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, India and Hong Kong at my school b/c we teach I.B. and that's what globally competitive parents want. We are education innovators believe it or not.

 

[Robert Baird]

I am unfamiliar with people who assert things they know little about. Of course North Korea is a totalitarian state with major brainwashing. I gave examples of things you had not considered. And what you are teaching is not thinking but it is what the experts I quoted call the testing industry.

 

[Orville]

No, it makes no sense at all outside of dumb chance. I wasn't doubting that criticism, just pointing out that our own technologies are excruciatingly far behind other possible space faring civilizations, especially if they are faring in our direction. We are nowhere close to the skills that they have acquired making our sticks and stones stuff pretty low end. That we have the ability to complete such marvelous "sticks and stones" touchdowns is only watered down by the great number of crashes that have rendered many of our own space missions incomplete. We are still fairly limited in terms of what we can get up to.

But yes, one must consider that the likelihood of one alien craft crashing here due to chance is quite small and that multiple crashes would represent possibly profound alien inadequacies and paradoxes such as: extreme short-sightedness, a willingness to waste incredible amounts resources, stupidity, a lack of communication amongst diverse species etc...what's more likely is that there have been no crashes at all, or perhaps one. Though, as Clark has pointed out, historically, the notion of an alien ship crashing on earth being kept secret, is absolutely impossible. As he says, you just can't hide such things from history. It doesn't matter how well the military or any black ops group has things compartmentalized, such an event is simply too large for it to remain hidden from human history for any real length of time, rendering most conspiracy theories around the disclosure movement to be mostly a waste of time.

Lets assume that the "ETH" is the correct answer(which is entirely different question), I am going have to agree with Constance

why wouldn't they? Do we imagine that older species capable of traveling in space must have become all-powerful and infallible? The physical forces and fields such species must navigate and even manipulate are immense, so immense as to dwarf any organically evolved (or even artificially developed) 'beings' and their technologies.

I mean to say that how could anyone possibly assume that their technology is by any means completely in capable of failure? I would assume that they could potentially run in to unforeseen circumstance just as any sort of technology we have could. just look at how the sun could completely knock out the worlds entire electrical grid with a single EMP burst. something that could potentially happen that was completely unforeseen by the creators of all sorts of different electronics. A craft could potentially have crashed either do to an unforeseen circumstance or simply "Pilot Error" which I do not think is completely out of the realm of possibility. Just because European settlers were technologically more advance than Native Americans doesn't mean that they didn't kill them from time to time or even sink one of their ships. also we are talking about two separate groups of people that developed independent of each other and that the technological gap could not be measured in years considering that Native Americans are probably older than Europeans. so who is to say that even a society that is a million years more advance than us is necessarily incapable of misfortune. the human species has been here for 200 thousand years and things still go wrong all the time. who's to say that they still wont a million years from now. and also if there were more then one group visiting us and were potentially hostile toward each other. I'm sure that Native Pacific Islander uncovered crashed fighter planes during WWII from time to time that were much more advanced than anything they have ever seen. If we are to truly believe that ET is completely infallible then perhaps we should all consider Joining a "Heavens Gate" type of group?

Also I think that we are not giving the Government enough credit as to their ability to hide things that they don't want to be known. look at the Sr71 blackbird? look at the fact that its been over 500 years and somehow Children across this country are still being taught that Christopher Columbus discovered America, and even worse is that the large majority of them will believe that until the day they die.

 

[DissectionStalker]

I mean to say that how could anyone possibly assume that their technology is by any means completely in capable of failure? I would assume that they could potentially run in to unforeseen circumstance just as any sort of technology we have could. just look at how the sun could completely knock out the worlds entire electrical grid with a single EMP burst. something that could potentially happen that was completely unforeseen by the creators of all sorts of different electronics. A craft could potentially have crashed either do to an unforeseen circumstance or simply "Pilot Error" which I do not think is completely out of the realm of possibility. Just because European settlers were technologically more advance than Native Americans doesn't mean that they didn't kill them from time to time or even sink one of their ships. also we are talking about two separate groups of people that developed independent of each other and that the technological gap could not be measured in years considering that Native Americans are probably older than Europeans. so who is to say that even a society that is a million years more advance than us is necessarily incapable of misfortune. the human species has been here for 200 thousand years and things still go wrong all the time. who's to say that they still wont a million years from now. and also if there were more then one group visiting us and were potentially hostile toward each other. I'm sure that Native Pacific Islander uncovered crashed fighter planes during WWII from time to time that were much more advanced than anything they have ever seen. If we are to truly believe that ET is completely infallible then perhaps we should all consider Joining a "Heavens Gate" type of group?

Understand this is a game of probabilities.

ALL of the above VS probable Human causes.

Pick any ET crash case VS a Human cause and explanation.

The odds are astronomical AGAINST it being ET.

You should believe what is the most likely probability understanding that Humans can probably be the most likely cause. Never ET. Imo.

You don't win the lottery by betting on ET. Play the odds to win most every time.

 

[Orville]

Understand this is a game of probabilities.

ALL of the above VS probable Human causes.

Pick any ET crash case VS a Human cause and explanation.

The odds are astronomical AGAINST it being ET.

You should believe what is the most likely probability understanding that Humans can probably be the most likely cause. Never ET. Imo.

You don't win the lottery by betting on ET. Play the odds to win most every time.

I'm playing devils advocate, I am not a proponent of the ETH myself, im not entirely convinced that it out of the realm of possibility. I just read that post a saw a lot of flaw in the arguement

 

[Robert Baird]

Dear Orville

Your history is flawed. The people in America had libraries galore, hanging gardens and absolute paradises galore before the Plague was intentionally spread to almost wipe them out. The bark of trees in Central America was ready to write on, they invented the wheel, the mathematical concept of zero knew the Earth Energy Grid better than we do today (built every Maya urban center on it). I can go on to include smelting, the atl-atl which lead to cross bows better than a WWI Lee Enfield rifle etc.

Then you say these words.

I mean to say that how could anyone possibly assume that their technology is by any means completely in capable of failure? I would assume that they could potentially run in to unforeseen circumstance just as any sort of technology we have could. just look at how the sun could completely knock out the worlds entire electrical grid with a single EMP burst. something that could potentially happen that was completely unforeseen by the creators of all sorts of different electronics. A craft could potentially have crashed either do to an unforeseen circumstance or simply "Pilot Error" which I do not think is completely out of the realm of possibility.

In physics and engineering if you can get through space (other than dimensional travel which is unlikely to occur with anything but a robot) you cannot crash. The many suns you have passed are bigger and more able to take your ship apart with EMP bursts. Unforeseen is a lot like imaginary - and what we can do is no where near to what is required. Pilot ERROR - come on. We have computers driving cars in urbane areas, and we are talking about advancements way beyond that which are necessary just to get to Mars.

 

[DissectionStalker]

I just read that post a saw a lot of flaw in the arguement

Great. I'm always willing to learn about the flaws. Please provide the details if possible.