Louis Jarvis

[rhcball]

You would think that the above would be a good reason for the scientific community to get involved. Kaku doesn't seem to bothered about any ridicule, as you say.

Kaku is an oddball exception. The issue is hopelessly complicated due to decades of cultural programming regarding UFOs, c/o the Air force, FAA, etc. I really don't see much hope for significant numbers of professionals taking up the issue (and more than a fringe element of the population even caring or paying attention) unless something really dramatic happens.

(Also regarding Kaku--I'm not well-versed in science, but I get the impression that he's sort of stretching the limits of sound science with all the far-out sci-fi possibilities he plays with. Maybe someone more educated can tell me if that's unfounded)

 

[Paul Kimball]

It is possible. But it comes down to this: You know he'll deny the negative points raised by Hall. We no longer have Hall to back up his information with a current perspective. We'll see.

---------- Post added at 11:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 AM ----------

Oh, and by the way, I found a Google search string that would trigger a second page listing for that archive of a MUFON newsletter article from Richard Hall attacking Ray Stanford's honesty. It was "Richard Hall Versus Ran Stanford." It's definitely NOT basic, unless you were specifically looking into information about this long-standing feud, rather than Stanford's research.

Again, Gene, we have a difference of opinion in terms of the kind of basic research a host should be doing in order to ask the right questions, and not just let the guest ramble, or declare him the greatest thing since sliced cheese. However, obviously "Ray Stanford" as a Google search works for you, so that is that.

 

[dyingsun]

I very much agree with Phil above. (!)

UFO "research" is in the exact same place it was in 1947. This isn't because of Salla or Greer or Adamski or or Klass or Stanford.

Lance

I wouldn't say the exact same place since there are a whole lot of different theories, but if you are referring to concrete evidence of any sort, I kind of agree.

 

[Pittsburgh Pete]

It was so bad (good) that I had to listen to it a second time. It seemed to me that he was treated very gently and wasn't challenged on some of his statements like other guests. Maybe he was just pouring out so much b.s. so fast, it was impossible to keep up with him.

As an Army veteran, I'm always interested in assertions about military service. The part about his father operating on foot in downtown Hanoi, doing research for an anthrax attack on "Uncle Ho" was laughable on quite a few levels, not the least of which how the supposed operation involving loud, slow UH-1 Hueys would penetrate some of the toughest air defence on the planet at that time. The Son Tay raid was conducted with helicopters near Hanoi, but that was well over 20 miles away.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Again, Gene, we have a difference of opinion in terms of the kind of basic research a host should be doing in order to ask the right questions, and not just let the guest ramble, or declare him the greatest thing since sliced cheese. However, obviously "Ray Stanford" as a Google search works for you, so that is that.

That's not quite what I said, but it requires more than "basic research" to bring up the Richard Hall article. Even then, the best you can get, considering the history of Hall and Stanford, is a denial.

I haven't declared any guest the "greatest thing since sliced cheese," and you know it. Let's move on.

 

[MikeSee]

I had to turn off the Jarvis episode after 20 painfully long moments of the new age religio-psycho babble. With all due respect to Christopher O'Brien, who can be interesting and engaging, you have brought an occasional very odd friend to be interviewed on The Paracast. :frown:

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

I had to turn off the Jarvis episode after 20 painfully long moments of the new age religio-psycho babble. With all due respect to Christopher O'Brien, who can be interesting and engaging, you have brought an occasional very odd friend to be interviewed on The Paracast. :frown:

Oh well dude--all things to all people. As I said before, Louis is an amazing guy. I've known him since the early '90s. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of comparative prophesy that is far beyond anyone else I have have ever met. He introduced me to the last traditional Hopi Elder, Grandfather Martin Gashweosoma (we've been friends now for almost 10 years), he helped facilitate my weekend meeting with Laurance Rockefeller that resulted in Larry funding my research for two years--he brought the Hopi Fire Clan together with their fire clan ("red hat" Nyingmapa "ancient school") Tibetien brothers (from the other side of the earth) to fulfill their prophecized meeting with one another. This meeting (on May 22, 1995) in Crestone/Baca Grand was fulfillment of two, thousand + year-old prophecies. I'm not making this up. This is all well documented: when Kusum Lingpa and Martin met, Lingpa offered to conduct a powerful Hopi ritual/prayer to placate "palulukang" who is the Hopi version of the Tibetien "naga" thought by both cultures to be the energetic manifestation that will be responsible for the physical calamities that (may?) end this "fourth world" of the Hopi. After the prayer/ritual, in front of 30 distinguished onlookers, clear sky "horizontal lightning flashed overhead and rain showers fell" and "spontaneous applause broke out among the onlookers." (The Mysterious Valley--St. Martins Press, 1996 page 287) I could go on and on about Louis and his exploits...

Do I buy into everything Louis says? Hell no, I'm one of his uber-tricksters, his "Lance Moody," but I sure take notes and look forward to dogging him when his "predictions" don't come true etc. lol But ... something inside me twinges when I contemplate the implications of where Louis (and many others) think this world seems to\ be headed and I have Louis to thank (in part) for this growing feeling of precognitive unease...... Sorry if you thought he sucked... If you only knew... :0

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Oh well dude--all things to all people. As I said before, Louis is an amazing guy. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of comparative prophesy that is far beyond anyone else I have have ever met. He introduced me to the last traditional Hopi Elder, Grandfather Martin Gashweosoma (we've been friends for almost 10 years), he helped facilitate my weekend meeting with Laurance Rockefeller that resulted in Larry funding my research for two years--he brought the Hopi Fire Clan together with their fire clan ("red hat Ningma) Tibetien brothers (from the other side of the earth to fulfill their prophecized meeting with one another. I'm not making this up. I could go on and on... Do I buy into everything he says? Hell no, but I sure take notes and remember to dog him when his "predictions" don't come true etc. lol

I had to turn off the Jarvis episode after 20 painfully long moments of the new age religio-psycho babble. With all due respect to Christopher O'Brien, who can be interesting and engaging, you have brought an occasional very odd friend to be interviewed on The Paracast.

Where would our lives be if we didn't have the odd, odd friend eh? And in the case of Louis Jarvis he is indeed very odd but thoroughly thought provoking and interesting. I realise some may find him scattered and uninteresting and that's cool. Horses for courses. In the end not every guest can be a Leslie Kean and be all things to all listeners. I think Gene, Chris and Nick are doing a stellar job in providing an excellent show regardless of the nay sayers and gripers.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

I just got done listening to this one and, after the last bit of music just sat in my car, driving down the road, dumbfounded. My reaction was, "What just happened?" Gene did his best to counter Louis but this show could have used a serious dose of Biedny...though I think the show would have been about a quarter of it's actual length, then. As far as having Louis on JUST to have Louis (or someone like him) on, I think that's a bad idea. Don't feed the lunacy. Don't encourage it.

I have some interesting ideas about individuals like Jarvis from a psychological level. When I get about 15 minutes later today, I'll post again.

 

[Kieran]

I most be one out of only a few who found him informative and educational, and yes, his beliefs are contentious. Over and out, crystal clear I get that.

And from reading every post, Louis was mocked and scorned because he believes the prophecy from "Garabandal" is likely to happen in the near future.

I heard Louis, and what he had to say, but I can't accept this prophecy will happen next year, but I am intrigued by the location of were this miracle or vision took place.

Louis said the visionaries who saw the visions came from the Basque region of Northern Spain. I have researched this area mythology and lot of weird paranormal events have occurred there down through the ages. I have talked about this before were Basque and Irish Mythology about the paranormal are uniquely similar.

I would give a suggestion here. Either this a trickster event to coin Chris's work or something else is going on here?

A Hoax by certain members of the community ? Or maybe low level hysteria over took this town when perhaps some of the residents of the town witnessed something unusual and considering the time I believe 1961, and Spain being a practising catholic country.Those visionaries for a lack of a better term had the belief or wished to belief they were sighting the Virgin Mary?

This story to me is like a continual follow on of the Fatima story. It said, that something, allegedly the "Virgin Mary" gave three poor peasant girls from Portugal an unique insight into future events in 1917, Even though, many here, would dismiss that story. The Catholic Church in Rome investigated cynically, at first, but later after further consulting and investigation accepted a miracle took place there.

Now 80 years on from those events in 1917, Members of the clergy in Rome have been willing to go on record, and claim, that two of the Fatima secrets have indeed taken place !! Are they pulling every ones leg or chain, of course they could be. We are dealing with the Roman Catholic Church after all, hardly a bastion for truth and enlightenment!!

Prophecy has to be viewed in the context of who is making the claim!! Take Nostradamus as an example.

He is no longer with us anymore to ask what is the meaning behind a certain quatrain and frequently all I see happening today, is scholars of his work interpreting his work to sell books!!

You can often tell by looking at the title of an Nostradamus book, that the author is just full of it, and is just filling up pages with useless rubbish to read.

Nostradamus, alleged visions of the future are just that alleged, and frequently lot of his writings were in Old French and Latin I believe? So Translating stuff from the Original text of the work is extremely difficult and time consuming and if your not qualified to do so, you shouldn't be doing it.

It amazing to me still, that some Nostradamus scholars and teachers are still of the believe the word hister, that can be found in one of the quatrains. That this is somehow referring to Hitler of our century.

Hister was the Ancient word for the Danube, it actually a word that can be traced back to a specific place and spot. So I would go with the idea he was referring to something happening at that spot on the Danube, without knowing, for sure like everyone else. Simply put there is no expert on Nostradamus works period!!

Louis does not believe in the MJ12 Documents and the Roswell story and he finds the whole Mayan Calender 2012 to be phoney. Is he we really all that bad!!! a fool or a nut?

We should be careful calling one person a nut and giving another person respect and admiration!!

 

[trainedobserver]

And from reading every post, Louis was mocked and scorned because he believes the prophecy from "Garabandal" is likely to happen in the near future.

From Wikipedia
"The visionaries reported receiving two 'messages', one directly from Mary and the other from Mary by way of Michael. The first, revealed on October 18, 1961, states: We must make many sacrifices, perform much penance, and visit the Blessed Sacrament frequently. But first, we must lead good lives. If we do not, a chastisement will befall us. The cup is already filling up, and if we do not change, a very great chastisement will come upon us."


"... Many priests are following the road to perdition, and with them they are taking many more souls. Ever less importance is being given to the Holy Eucharist. We should turn the wrath of God away from us by our own efforts. If you ask His forgiveness with a sincere heart. He will pardon you. I, your Mother, through the intercession of St. Michael the Archangel, wish to tell you that you should make amends. You are now being given the last warnings. I love you very much, and I do not want your condemnation. Ask Us sincerely and We shall grant your plea. You must make more sacrifices. Reflect on the Passion of Jesus.<sup id="cite_ref-2" class="reference">"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garabandal_apparitions#cite_note-2</sup>
<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garabandal_apparitions#cite_note-1</sup>

It appears to me that the crux of the thing is that disaster is going to befall us because we aren't being good Catholics. It appears for all the world to be religious hysterics. Why would anyone but a devote Catholic pay any attention to this at all?

 

[Kieran]

From Wikipedia
"The visionaries reported receiving two 'messages', one directly from Mary and the other from Mary by way of Michael. The first, revealed on October 18, 1961, states: We must make many sacrifices, perform much penance, and visit the Blessed Sacrament frequently. But first, we must lead good lives. If we do not, a chastisement will befall us. The cup is already filling up, and if we do not change, a very great chastisement will come upon us."


"... Many priests are following the road to perdition, and with them they are taking many more souls. Ever less importance is being given to the Holy Eucharist. We should turn the wrath of God away from us by our own efforts. If you ask His forgiveness with a sincere heart. He will pardon you. I, your Mother, through the intercession of St. Michael the Archangel, wish to tell you that you should make amends. You are now being given the last warnings. I love you very much, and I do not want your condemnation. Ask Us sincerely and We shall grant your plea. You must make more sacrifices. Reflect on the Passion of Jesus.<sup id="cite_ref-2" class="reference">"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garabandal_apparitions#cite_note-2</sup>
<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garabandal_apparitions#cite_note-1</sup>

It appears to me that the crux of the thing is that disaster is going to befall us because we aren't being good Catholics. It appears for all the world to be religious hysterics. Why would anyone but a devote Catholic pay any attention to this at all?

What I was trying to highlight is not that the prophecy will occur, but what was the reason behind the disdain for Louis (his religious beliefs)

I never came across this prophecy until Louis spoke of it, and frequently I have no authority to speak fully about the prophecy having not researched adequately enough to do so.

But I having researched on my spare time the Basque region of Spain, and it's many paranormal stories. I had some authority in merely, suggesting, what they experienced was perhaps a Paranormal event or maybe it wasn't?

 

[Angel of Ioren]

What I was trying to highlight is not that the prophecy will occur, but what was the reason behind the disdain for Louis (his religious beliefs)

I never came across this prophecy until Louis spoke of it, and frequently I have no authority to speak fully about the prophecy having not researched adequately enough to do so.

But I having researched on my spare time the Basque region of Spain, and it's many paranormal stories. I had some authority in merely, suggesting, what they experienced was perhaps a Paranormal event or maybe it wasn't?

I had heard about the prophecy before, the first time on some NBC special hosted by David McCallum. The film footage scared the crap out of me when I saw it as a teenager, especially as a Catholic.
Now that I know better, I can see it for what it was. Even the Catholic church doesn't accept it, and they accept the Fatima stuff, so imagine...

 

[trainedobserver]

What I was trying to highlight is not that the prophecy will occur, but what was the reason behind the disdain for Louis (his religious beliefs)

Well, I don't mean to be rude or insensitive but just because something is labeled as a "religious belief" doesn't exclude it from critical examination and criticism. Especially when those "religious beliefs" are contrary to reason, logic, and well ... just ordinary common sense. I understand religious belief having struggled with it most of my life. I've held bizarre (in retrospect) irrational beliefs (and probably still do in some respects) due to my upbringing and having swallowed the whole "faith" thing hook, line, and sinker at an early age.

Children having visions (or claiming to) of religious icons and figures delivering messages demanding devotion and fidelity to the children's favorite deity isn't that world shaking or worthy of the attention it has received IMHO. But people will travel 100s of miles to see Mary in a taco or in a water stain for Pete's sake.

 

[Kieran]

I had heard about the prophecy before, the first time on some NBC special hosted by David McCallum. The film footage scared the crap out of me when I saw it as a teenager, especially as a Catholic.
Now that I know better, I can see it for what it was. Even the Catholic church doesn't accept it, and they accept the Fatima stuff, so imagine...

I have to look for that show, thanks Angel. See how it fits with what Louis claimed!!!

Traindobserver below.

Living in Ireland I have seen enough of this religious hysteria to last me a life time. I remember back in the late eighties people often reported that statues of the Virgin Mary were moving (strange I no) and some people were claiming the statue was seen crying with tears (probably the rain) It was extremely funny. Many of my friends thought so too, but people came from all parts of the country to see this stuff, really truly, You had to be there, to believe it!! So I understand the Hysteria that can be caused being a first hand witness to such happenings.

Fatima, Look I believe something strange happened there, but I seriously, doubt what they claim they saw was the Virgin Mary. You can't readily dismiss the eyewitnesses seeing something in the sky, and since it was reported hundreds of people saw something in the sky. I've decided to keep open mind about Fatima and what It all means.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Well, I don't mean to be rude or insensitive but just because something is labeled as a "religious belief" doesn't exclude it from critical examination and criticism. Especially when those "religious beliefs" are contrary to reason, logic, and well ... just ordinary common sense. I understand religious belief having struggled with it most of my life. I've held bizarre (in retrospect) irrational beliefs (and probably still do in some respects) due to my upbringing and having swallowed the whole "faith" thing hook, line, and sinker at an early age.

Children having visions (or claiming to) of religious icons and figures delivering messages demanding devotion and fidelity to the children's favorite deity isn't that world shaking or worthy of the attention it has received IMHO. But people will travel 100s of miles to see Mary in a taco or in a water stain for Pete's sake.

I could not agree with you more. Why people think that a child or a prophet (like Nostradamus) can predict anything like the end of the world to any degree of accuracy is ridiculous. If you want to have a great laugh, read any book about prophecies from 10 or so years ago. Bigger laughs are to be had if you read one from 20 or more years ago. After that, read a book about science from 20 years ago - compare how they each hold up. Any Dawkins or Sagan book holds up much better than any prophecy book.

 

[Kieran]

I could not agree with you more. Why people think that a child or a prophet (like Nostradamus) can predict anything like the end of the world to any degree of accuracy is ridiculous. If you want to have a great laugh, read any book about prophecies from 10 or so years ago. Bigger laughs are to be had if you read one from 20 or more years ago. After that, read a book about science from 20 years ago - compare how they each hold up. Any Dawkins or Sagan book holds up much better than any prophecy book.

Did he not predict the Death of the King of France in a duelling contest, just before it happened, he came to the queen and told her. I believe, this how he gained the reputation of a seer into the future. The queen appointed him as an advisor. He was also a practising Doctor who over the years of his life in vain tried to cure the sick and frail from the bubonic plague that killed millions.

The End of the World thing is not entirely accurate. From my Understanding the Quatrains end around 1,000 years from now (it was sequenced with dates and numbers) The problem I and I guess this get's on your nerves too, Angel.

Is when People make claims that Nostradamus predicted future events and they point to a Quatrain "Oh Yes" that Quatrain does match that event. How can you say that with 100% per cent you idiot!!

The Quatrains are not in plain language they are very confusing. Some of the Quatrains I read do often refer to death and disease and war, but it is a giant leap for everyone to claim some of the Quatrains are about Wars that accorded this century. I never found anything that would be considered smoking Gun evidence for those claims made by people.

I Love to get my hands on his original writings and avoiding reading some elses Interpretation of the Nostradamus writings.

 

[trainedobserver]

After that, read a book about science from 20 years ago - compare how they each hold up. Any Dawkins or Sagan book holds up much better than any prophecy book.

Excellent point. Prophecy fails totally and completely because it is based on the irrational notion that human beings can know about things before they actually happen. Whether they get this knowledge from a deity or some supposedly natural ability, it is predicated on the notion that you can know about things that essentially have not come into existence yet. Say that out loud to get a good handle on how entirely insane that sounds.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Excellent point. Prophecy fails totally and completely because it is based on the irrational notion that human beings can know about things before they actually happen. Whether they get this knowledge from a deity or some supposedly natural ability, it is predicated on the notion that you can know about things that essentially have not come into existence yet. Say that out loud to get a good handle on how entirely insane that sounds.

Prophecy is only meaningful if the predictions come true. If and when they do, then we can worry about the cause.

 

[Ron Collins]

Prophecy is always retrospectively analyzed. About 3 months ago I made the "prediction" that The Viking players would have to go get Brett Favre. I was somewhat wrong/somewhat right. I thought it would be the the O line that did it. Only 3 guys went but one was a guard. Anyway, am I some sort of sports prophet. (I do have ESP...N) No. I just figured that his team was proactive and wanted him back. Thus it was totally logical to me. I think that many prophets practice the same sort of premonition logic. They just disguise it with fancy or spooky language. Then they somehow toss out these predictions having covered multiple angles and scenarios thereby improving their odds. Then as soon as something news worthy matches the rough outline covered by one of their prophecies they or their followers declare clairvoyance.

In regards to kids and this stuff I think perhaps parallels can be drawn to the Salem witch trials. The young girls that that spun that story achieved celebrity status. They took their road show from village to village declaring witches everywhere. They got money, fame, and favor from this for several years. Finally, they were found out after declaring a local politicians wife a witch. This was all started because of the stories they heard of witchcraft from an old woman slave that lived with them. They then spun a yarn that played heavily into the religious belief of the time. My own personal belief is that this is ultimately what Fatima and this probably comes down to. Imagination built from dogma and then legitimized by the fervor of some ultra religious believers.