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malaysian 239 downed

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marduk said:
I see your point, but there are two main problems that I see:

#1 The only way to force a 777 down with another plane that I see is either with bullets or missiles. The rate of climb for a 777 seems to be ~7000 feet per minute. The old, decommed F4 had a rate of climb of ~40,000 feet per minute. A MIG-15 from 1948 had a rate of climb the same as a 777. The 777's a beast. So almost any jet with guns on it could have kept up with it's rate of climb. And you're not gonna out-climb a air to air missile.

#2 The fact that the flight deviation was programmed in prior to the relaxed "good night" call from the co-pilot didn't indicate anything of the sort.
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Right, but that's why I suggested a non-military plane, and was referring more to climbing above the ceiling of other planes than a rate per minute. So if it had been a plane like that with some guys waving guns instead, then it's more plausible.
 
ufology said:
Right, but that's why I suggested a non-military plane, and was referring more to climbing above the ceiling of other planes than a rate per minute. So if it had been a plane like that with some guys waving guns instead, then it's more plausible.
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Oh, I getcha.
It would need to be a pressurized plane to meet the 777 at 30K feet. Like a turboprop or lear-type small jet plane?
With guys waving handguns?
Some questions (just exploring, not criticizing):
Would they be able to open a window to shoot at 30K feet and mach .8?
Would they be able to hit the 777 at mach .8? (I'd guess you'd have to shoot ahead of the plane substantially?)
Would a handgun do much damage to a 777 from the outside?
Why wouldn't they squawk for help at least?

Maybe ramming the plane would be a better strategy?
 
manxman said:
you wouldnt have to give much lead, travelling the same speed as the target.
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I'm not thinking relative speed, I'm thinking of >600MPH winds at a relative distance of 100 yards or more (turbulence kicked up by a 777 would be huge).
 
Realistically, a flight simulator is just an app on a personal computer. So data is deleted all the time. The key is whether the data was securely deleted or not. If it was, it would indicate some effort at deception. If it is recovered, it may just indicate the pilot wasn't savvy enough about such matters to know what to do, or the simulations do not contain anything significant about this issue.

I just think if it was a big conspiracy to take control of that plane and divert it somewhere, maybe the people involved would be smart enough to cover their tracks.
 
If the pilot is complicit in any way in something negative, I would think he could care less about deleting files on his computer. Even if he had familiarised himself with unique runways as a practice for a hijack-type deal, he would know he isn't gonna be returning to use the computer and anything anyone could learn from the computer would be irrelevant by that time.

Of course, if the idea was to get the plane someplace and keep it hidden, then possibly the deleted files were extremely relevant because they could alert the authorities to the location.

One thing I don't think I've heard reported for sure is whether this switching off of tracking systems can be done remotely at all? I mean, with maybe minor physical modifications, someone could remotely disable the tracking systems, and this would maybe point to the crew not being involved in a guilty sense.
 
boomerang said:
..
I also find it curious that a high time air transport pilot would have a PC based (I presume) simulator in his home. Here we need the opinion of a professional pilot--but nothing you can build at home will offer anything like the training environment of a real jet simulator. Was the pilot going over specific procedures for shutting off radio emissions? Not possible, I think, in a home rigged simulator. What is possible is that he might be training co-conspirators in the basics of flying. All speculation.
..
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Since modern aircraft instruments are all digital (except for backup vacuum instruments), they can be replicated 100% on a powerful PC using an open-ended piece of flight sim software like Microsoft's Flight Simulator X, which is a likely candidate for what he used in his rig.
I programmed a few instruments by adhering to the XML-format that MS used in that particular rendition of the sim: Depending on the value of a number (for instance measured airspeed), a graphic is programmed to be displayed for the pilot to read. This is no different than how it's done in a real-world aircraft instrument, so flight sim instruments can be made to look and behave identically to instruments in the real world aircraft.

It's a pretty big hobby and some people have huge rigs in their homes. This includes many pilots, and there are many real world pilots in flight sim forums. So, I consider it completely normal that the pilot in question had such a setup at home, simply for fun and training, it shouldn't in itself indicate anything out of the ordinary. Of course I agree that it gave him ample opportunity to familiarize himself with airstrips along the way and train procedures, but he didn't actually need such a huge rig to do that. The costly physical modeling of the aircraft cockpit just suggests to me that he was very much into his flight simulator.
 
Gene Steinberg said:
Realistically, a flight simulator is just an app on a personal computer. So data is deleted all the time. The key is whether the data was securely deleted or not. If it was, it would indicate some effort at deception. If it is recovered, it may just indicate the pilot wasn't savvy enough about such matters to know what to do, or the simulations do not contain anything significant about this issue.

I just think if it was a big conspiracy to take control of that plane and divert it somewhere, maybe the people involved would be smart enough to cover their tracks.
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The only thing I'd mention is if the simulator showed that the pilot practiced maneuvers similar to what is believed to have occurred, it would indicate that the actions leading to the disappearance were intentional. It might also give us a better idea of where the plane might have landed or crashed. Right now, the search area is 10 times the size of Texas. The FBI is currently examining this simulator.

This could also just be another red herring. As you mentioned, information is deleted from simulators at regular intervals. I am glad the FBI is investigating even if that only rules out another hypothesis.

This is a good article.
FBI Examining Malaysia Airlines Pilot's Flight Simulator - ABC News
 
Jimi H. said:
Since modern aircraft instruments are all digital (except for backup vacuum instruments), they can be replicated 100% on a powerful PC using an open-ended piece of flight sim software like Microsoft's Flight Simulator X, which is a likely candidate for what he used in his rig.
I programmed a few instruments by adhering to the XML-format that MS used in that particular rendition of the sim: Depending on the value of a number (for instance measured airspeed), a graphic is programmed to be displayed for the pilot to read. This is no different than how it's done in a real-world aircraft instrument, so flight sim instruments can be made to look and behave identically to instruments in the real world aircraft.

It's a pretty big hobby and some people have huge rigs in their homes. This includes many pilots, and there are many real world pilots in flight sim forums. So, I consider it completely normal that the pilot in question had such a setup at home, simply for fun and training, it shouldn't in itself indicate anything out of the ordinary. Of course I agree that it gave him ample opportunity to familiarize himself with airstrips along the way and train procedures, but he didn't actually need such a huge rig to do that. The costly physical modeling of the aircraft cockpit just suggests to me that he was very much into his flight simulator.
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A lot of my gaming buddies have similar setups, 3 monitors and a yoke for controls, building a home made simulator is pretty easy these days, and imo not in and of itself suspicious for a pilot to have
 
marduk said:
Oh, I getcha.
It would need to be a pressurized plane to meet the 777 at 30K feet. Like a turboprop or lear-type small jet plane?
With guys waving handguns?
Some questions (just exploring, not criticizing):
Would they be able to open a window to shoot at 30K feet and mach .8?
Would they be able to hit the 777 at mach .8? (I'd guess you'd have to shoot ahead of the plane substantially?)
Would a handgun do much damage to a 777 from the outside?
Why wouldn't they squawk for help at least?

Maybe ramming the plane would be a better strategy?
Click to expand...
Well that's what I was getting at: If it went after the airliner at a lower altitude but didn't have a pressurized cabin or oxygen, even if it could keep up with its speed, it wouldn't be able to stay with it as it went up to 7+ miles high. But you have a good point about the absence of any radio chatter. One would think there should have been something, unless we thicken the plot, like maybe they sent a mule onto the plane with a short range two-way radio and told them to stay off the flight radio and follow them ( or else ). What's your theory?
 
Breaking news: It's now being reported that debris has been found in the Indian Ocean, several hundred miles of the coast of Australia.

Malaysia Airlines MH370: RAAF Orions en route to possible debris in Indian Ocean
Updated 4 minutes ago

PHOTO: An RAAF pilot flies an AP-3C Orion over the Indian Ocean yesterday. (ADF: Hamish Paterson)
RELATED STORY: Angry relatives storm media briefing over missing Malaysian plane
MAP: Australia
Australian search planes have been diverted to find two objects in the southern Indian Ocean "possibly related" to the search for the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott told Parliament that "new and credible information has come to light" relating to the search.

"The Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA) has received information based on satellite imagery of objects possibly related to the search," he said.

"Following specialist analysis of this satellite imagery, two possible objects related to the search have been identified."

The Prime Minister said he had spoken with his Malaysian counterpart, Najib Razak, and cautioned that the objects had yet to be identified.

Mr Abbott said a RAAF Orion has been diverted to find the objects and was expected to reach the area around 2:15 AEDT.

He said three more aircraft would follow.

"They are tasked for more intensive follow-up search," he added.

Mr Abbott warned the task of locating the objects will be "extremely difficult", and "it may turn out that they are not related to the search."

Flight MH370 has been missing since it disappeared en route to Beijing from Malaysia on March 8.

So far the investigation has focused on the possibility that the plane was deliberately diverted from its flight path.

The plane is thought to have travelled in either of two directions: north west into Asia or south west into the Indian Ocean.

Australia has been leading the search in the southern vector, specifically an area 3,000 kilometres south-west of Perth.

AMSA says the search zone covers 600,000 square kilometres of ocean and has been plotted using data based on the last satellite relay signals sent by the plane.

The search now encompasses an area stretching 7.7 million square kilometres - an area larger than the entire land mass of Australia.

More details soon.
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Malaysia Airlines MH370: RAAF Orions en route to possible debris in Indian Ocean - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
 
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