malaysian 239 downed

[Wade]

I'm wary of the dirty bomb theory etc because just the fact a plane has gone astray has put the world and the intel world on alert. If anyone truly wished to set off a dirty bomb there are plenty easier ways to do it.

Is it feasible that a one-time use runway was constructed? Obviously all runways in range will be highlighted but what about non-standard ones? I feel that so many people in the world can be corrupt and paid to look the other way, it will be easy to 'rename' this plane if required and pull off some major sleight of hand and this plane 'walks' right on in somewhere it should not be...

I was also thinking along these lines goggs, but I'd think there would have to be a complete overhaul of the plane and all its inner workings. I would imagine that things are such that every instrument, every radio, every form of communication, and navigation send out bits of information and as such is tied to a particular ship so they could always tell where is that piece came from and you would probably have to "mask" yourself as another expected flight. Mind you I know squat about civil aviation but I would think that such things are in force. Not an impossible trick i would think, but as you said there would be easier ways to deliver a dirty bomb. I wonder if it is realistic to get a 777 close to Tel Aviv or even Israel without being shot out of the sky be cause of no response even flying below radar. You'd certainly want a vessel full of the agent in the hopes that some piece will hit home. I wouldn't be suprised of Israel has now...or already had been...armed their intetceptors with such missles to completely obliterated anything that could be deemed a threat, being aware of this very scenario.

In my opinion i think if someone wanted to hijack a commercial airliner there are plenty for sale that could probably be purchased without much scrutiny and you could pull off the same thing.

 

[CocaCola Cowboy]

I was also thinking along these lines goggs, but I'd think there would have to be a complete overhaul of the plane and all its inner workings. I would imagine that things are such that every instrument, every radio, every form of communication, and navigation send out bits of information and as such is tied to a particular ship so they could always tell where is that piece came from and you would probably have to "mask" yourself as another expected flight. Mind you I know squat about civil aviation but I would think that such things are in force. Not an impossible trick i would think, but as you said there would be easier ways to deliver a dirty bomb. I wonder if it is realistic to get a 777 close to Tel Aviv or even Israel without being shot out of the sky be cause of no response even flying below radar. You'd certainly want a vessel full of the agent in the hopes that some piece will hit home. I wouldn't be suprised of Israel has now...or already had been...armed their intetceptors with such missles to completely obliterated anything that could be deemed a threat, being aware of this very scenario.

In my opinion i think if someone wanted to hijack a commercial airliner there are plenty for sale that could probably be purchased without much scrutiny and you could pull off the same thing.

According to reports, it's highly possible that they wanted the expertise of some of the passengers as well as the plane.

 

[marduk]

Somebody knows exactly what happened to that plane but they're just not saying. There are satellites in orbit that track virtually everything in the air all the time. FSS they can read license plates from space, detect missile launches anywhere in the world, detect explosions, and even find stuff underground. If the plane blew up, they'd know exactly where, and if it was hijacked and flown off to some airstrip, then right now there's some view screen in some super secret military complex where a bunch of black-ops agents are sitting around watching the plane on the ground and deciding what to do next.

Agree 100%, that's what I'm thinking.

Some ideas rattling through my head:
- something big is up involving international security so everybody staying quiet is needed while it gets sorted out
- it was hijacked and the hijackers are demanding the silence (think about the public pressure to take out the hijackers if it's on the ground somewhere)
- whoever took it doesn't care about the people, they just want the plane. It's worth $30-50M USD.
- it's part of a much larger scheme. Park the plane, pack it full of explosives, put the people back on it, and fly it somewhere like Delhi or Mumbai or somewhere, demand $1B while it's in the air. Or gamble that it won't be shot down and will take out your target. Wasn't that on an episode of BSG? They cylons took a carrier full of humans, brought it back with a nuke on board, and headed it straight for the fleet betting that the humans would flinch?

Whatever it was, it was something bad. I'm guessing it's on the ground in a hanger somewhere.

 

[boomerang]

Seems like the 777 requires a minimum of about 4000 ft. of runway for landing. And these planes are heavy. An adequate runway would be almost impossible to hide from surveillance platforms, assuming they were looking in the correct vicinity. We can go the Dr. Evil route, and imagine workers frantically covering over a remote jungle runway just after landing. Possible, but unlikely. If the plane managed to find a serviceable runway at some unused or little used airport, it would eventually be surround by someone's special forces and in the crosshairs of armed and orbiting drones. I'm betting we have ways of looking inside of large tin buildings. If flight 370 landed in one piece and is now hidden, it is probably within the borders of a complicit nation state.

As for the hijackers demanding money for hostages--I would say demanding money from whom? Does anyone deal publicly with terrorists these days ?

This type of aircraft is a large sitting duck for an air defense system on alert. Unless, of course, they can impersonate a legit carrier. This would seem a pretty good trick with all systems watching. But who knows.

If this plane is indeed on the ground and being monitored by any major nation, I think it is going mostly nowhere. Unless we are missing a key piece of the larger puzzle.

 

[Bob Watson]

The fact that the plane went above 45,000 feet tells me that the plane's crew may have killed the passengers.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk

 

[marduk]

The fact that the plane went above 45,000 feet tells me that the plane's crew may have killed the passengers.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk

How do you know it went that high and why does that mean that they killed the passengers?

 

[Bob Watson]

I know it went that high becuse many news agency reports state the fact. And all it takes is something open and the passengers quickly die if they wanted to kill everyone that is the quick way to do it.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk

 

[marduk]

Ah, found it, thanks.
Missing Malaysia plane flew at 5,000ft and used 'terrain masking' to avoid radar detection - Telegraph

If this report can be trusted, it was taken for sure.

I don't see why it means the passengers are dead though.

"Experts said a sharp drop in altitude – the plane was apparently flying as high as 45,000 feet - would have been noticeable for the passengers, but not deadly."​

 

[Bob Watson]

Ok now at 45,000 feet something opens for a short time ...

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk

 

[marduk]

This is interesting, if extremely speculative:
Keith Ledgerwood — Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

 

[marduk]

Ok now at 45,000 feet something opens for a short time ...

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk

You'd think that would likely take a chunk of the fuselage with it if you opened the door at 45000 feet cruising at mach .8...

 

[stonehart]

you only have to worry IF, you live in a country that attack's other country's, imo.

stoneheart, [ nuking NZ would be like tidying the place up] , and me are safe me thinks.


if the flight ever actually existed or not, Iran will get the blame.

 

[mike]

Flight 370 Soared Above 45,000 Feet After Vanishing: Report

Well above the the plane's service limit of 43,100 feet, at which point the cabin loses its oxygen, the overhead masks would deploy, but they have 15 mins supply (cockpit has longer supply)

So take her up to 45,000 feet stay there for a half hour, everybody but the cockpit crew is dead......................

At 40,000 feet (12,000 m) the ambient air pressure falls to about 0.2 bar and to maintain a minimum partial pressure of oxygen of 0.2 bar requires breathing 100% oxygen using an oxygen mask. Emergency oxygen supply masks in the passenger compartment of airliners do not need to be pressure-demand masks because most flights stay below 40,000 feet (12,000 m). Above that altitude the partial pressure of oxygen will fall below 0.2 bar even at 100% oxygen and some degree of cabin pressurisation or rapid descent is essential to avoid the risk of hypoxia.

 

[mike]

Seems like the 777 requires a minimum of about 4000 ft. of runway for landing. And these planes are heavy. An adequate runway would be almost impossible to hide from surveillance platforms, assuming they were looking in the correct vicinity. We can go the Dr. Evil route, and imagine workers frantically covering over a remote jungle runway just after landing. Possible, but unlikely. If the plane managed to find a serviceable runway at some unused or little used airport, it would eventually be surround by someone's special forces and in the crosshairs of armed and orbiting drones. I'm betting we have ways of looking inside of large tin buildings. If flight 370 landed in one piece and is now hidden, it is probably within the borders of a complicit nation state.

As for the hijackers demanding money for hostages--I would say demanding money from whom? Does anyone deal publicly with terrorists these days ?

This type of aircraft is a large sitting duck for an air defense system on alert. Unless, of course, they can impersonate a legit carrier. This would seem a pretty good trick with all systems watching. But who knows.

If this plane is indeed on the ground and being monitored by any major nation, I think it is going mostly nowhere. Unless we are missing a key piece of the larger puzzle.

But the list does not take into account that a plane could have touched down in a location other than an airport.
One pilot who flies 777-200s, Rich Solan, told Slate that the plane could even have landed on a highway.
“If I have a fire in flight, I’m prepared to put it down on anything above 5000 feet,” he said. “You could put it on a highway.”
He said a runway wouldn’t even necessarily have to be paved; hard-packed dirt would likely be good enough.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-mh370-had-choice-of-634-runways-to-land-on-20140317-hvjmh.html#ixzz2wGGPnGeV[/quote]

 

[marduk]

Flight 370 Soared Above 45,000 Feet After Vanishing: Report

Well above the the plane's service limit of 43,100 feet, at which point the cabin loses its oxygen, the overhead masks would deploy, but they have 15 mins supply (cockpit has longer supply)

So take her up to 45,000 feet stay there for a half hour, everybody but the cockpit crew is dead......................

Wouldn't you just pass out,not die?

Good way to subdue the passengers scare the crap out of them!

 

[marduk]

"An Asia-based pilot of a Boeing 777-200, who asked not to be identified because he was not authorized to speak to reporters, said an ascent above the plane’s service limit of 43,100 feet, along with a depressurized cabin, could have rendered the passengers and crew unconscious, and could be a deliberate maneuver by a pilot or a hijacker."
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/1...ilitary-radar.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=0&referrer=

Let's hope they are alive.

 

[mike]

Wouldn't you just pass out,not die?

Good way to subdue the passengers scare the crap out of them!

Depends how long they were deprived of oxygen, Hypoxia will lead to death over an extended period

The brain starts to die in about 3 mins, 7 mins and the job is done

The human body needs oxygen to sustain itself. The decrease of oxygen to at least one body part is known as hypoxia. The total lack of oxygen is known as anoxia. Brain cells are destroyed after 4 to 6 minutes without oxygen. When the flow of oxygen to the brain is completely cut off, a person will lose consciousness within 10 seconds. Extended hypoxia leads to brain damage and ultimately death

Read more: http://www.ehow.com/about_5506985_long-can-brain-survive-oxygen.html#ixzz2wGYNgS3u

 

[mike]

Sorry as i am to say it, it looks like they were killed this way, its consistant with the planning that went into this as well as other aspects like the phones being active after the plane went missing yet not a single call has been made.

Latest speculation and it must be acknowledged that thats all it is at this point is that either one or both of the pilots were involved,

U.S. intelligence officials are leaning toward the theory that "those in the cockpit" -- the pilots of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 -- were responsible for the mysterious disappearance of the commercial jetliner, a U.S. official with direct knowledge of the latest thinking told CNN on Saturday.

All the clues look like its the plane they wanted, if they were going to just commit suicide and take everyone with them, why bother turning off the gear and flying on for 6 or more hours.
If the goal was to crash it into a building, why not just do that.

I dont think the passengers are part of the larger plan

 

[Kieran]

Suspicious to say the least a plane goes missing and nobody can tell us where it ended up? I watch American news sometimes and the story of Russia invading Crimea hardly gets mentioned anymore on your news. I just find it odd this occurs at a time when tensions are at all time high in Europe and at Nato.

Its almost like someone wanted the other story to go away.

 

[manxman]

quote

So the plane supposedly changed direction and flew for hours into the Indian Ocean towards...... Diego Garcia, the home of a naval base belonging to the worlds most technologically advanced military superpower.....and we're still supposed to believe no-one picked it up via satellite??

Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost - PPRuNe Forums