Matthew Williams, Circlemaker

[smcder]

If they are harvesting conciousness as ive expounded on in other threads, then they need only tweak the product itself, not deal directly with the biovessels that produce it.

Very interesting ideas, with which I agree. I'm relatively new here so could you direct me to threads in which you've discussed your idea that the consciousness (or individual consciousnesses) of humans is being 'harvested'?

I am interested in learning about this idea too.

 

[mike]

Very interesting ideas, with which I agree. I'm relatively new here so could you direct me to threads in which you've discussed your idea that the consciousness (or individual consciousnesses) of humans is being 'harvested'?

A forum search of post biological hypothesis should throw up a few

 

[mike]

I just want to repost this because it may have been missed and I think it's important:



Are these videos available online and if so, can you link them here? The only video of that type I've seen was clearly CGI and was later claimed by an aspiring CGI artist, it was of balls of light hovering over a field and creating a crop circle.

there are some pics here

This is a special section dedicated to documenting the various anomalies many circlemakers have experienced whilst out making or revisiting crop circles.

¤ c i r c l e m a k e r s ¤
this one is interesting

I took this sequence of photographs on April 26 1996 at about 9.20pm over the Chibolton Observatory, Chibolton, Hampshire, England.
After a prearranged meeting with a friend close to the observatory we witnessed a luminous orb consisting of six smaller red lights arranged around a yellow/orange light, which appeared in the sky above and to the southwest of the observatory. It was twilight and the weather was fine with a clear sky and light wind.
The light moved slowly towards us passing above the dish of the observatory, it then banked and began to move North, allowing a clear view of the configuration of lights underneath it. It did not make any sort of sound. After a short distance it disappeared, as if the lights had been turned off. The whole sighting lasted a few minutes, as I had my camera with me I took a number of photographs in quick succession as the lights banked and moved North.
The photographs were taken on a 35mm SLR camera, using standard 100 ASA slide film. The exposure was at 1/60 of a second for all the photographs.
There have been several other sightings at Chibolton observatory in recent years.

It was a few hundred yards away and directly in front of us. As soon as I'd registered its presence I alerted my colleagues. Amazed, we stood there gazing at this football-sized orange light as it hung motionless, about forty feet above the surrounding countryside. After an estimated five seconds the light began to slowly descend. Within another five seconds it had descended about ten feet and had faded into invisibility. With little time to spare, we excitedly returned to our work, always hopeful of a repeat performance. Subsequent daylight checks revealed no evidence of the light's existence. That year also saw a large increase in the number of luminosities reported around circle sites. Did we witness a naturally occurring phenomenon - or were we really being scanned by the genuine circlemakers?

¤ c i r c l e m a k e r s ¤

 

[smcder]

A forum search of post biological hypothesis should throw up a few

thanks!

 

[Muadib]

Yeah.... compare that pic to this one:

Which is a photo made by known UFO hoaxer Carlos Diaz, they look very similar to me, other than the fact that Diaz's object is a tad brighter, that definitely throws up some red flags.

 

[mike]

Well there is certainly some back and forth here about Diaz being a hoaxer or not

Hoax? Carlos Diaz' Dubious 'Alien Contact' Experiences

I really dont know to be honest, he may fall into that category of people who saw a genuine event, and then created photos to depict what they saw.
Again dont know.

Heres what lundberg has to say

Alien light forms
By John Lundberg

My epiphany came on three occasions inside of a week...




Our work generates response, often from other circlemakers, and can sometimes act to catalyse a wide range of paranormal events. I still believe there is a genuine phenomenon, but I now also believe that we're a part of it.

¤ c i r c l e m a k e r s ¤

Lundberg seems to be saying that he thinks there are genuine circles, but that they are part of that. Participants in a common event, not tacked on the side or sole explanation for it

For me these and other similar statements from circlemakers themselves leave me with more questions than answers as to the true nature of the topic

It also resembles some of the images here

Another one here

Glowing orange UFO seen over Colorado - National unexplained phenomena | Examiner.com

 

[Muadib]

Well there is certainly some back and forth here about Diaz being a hoaxer or not

Hoax? Carlos Diaz' Dubious 'Alien Contact' Experiences

I really dont know to be honest, he may fall into that category of people who saw a genuine event, and then created photos to depict what they saw.
Again dont know.

Heres what lundberg has to say




¤ c i r c l e m a k e r s ¤

Lundberg seems to be saying that he thinks there are genuine circles, but that they are part of that. Participants in a common event, not tacked on the side or sole explanation for it

For me these and other similar statements from circlemakers themselves leave me with more questions than answers as to the true nature of the topic

Thanks, but I can't take anything or anyone who would be affiliated with Jeff Rense seriously given his extreme views and alleged Jewish conspiracy leanings. I agree with you completely when you say you have more questions than answers when it comes to this topic, I think that's the position that we all find ourselves in, whether we want to admit or not, when it comes to the paranormal. Like you said before, perhaps that's the point and whether it's from an outside influence or we're generating it ourselves, it's definitely having an effect on our minds, in more ways than one I suspect.

 

[mike]

Again i cant comment on the Diaz case myself, im certainly not insisting its true but some big names seem to be included here

Another UFO researcher intrigued by Diaz's case is Professor of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, John Mack. Mack has a long history of dealing with abductees and contactees and believes that the Diaz case is among the most convincing he has come across. in his book Passport to the Cosmos, he states: 'Out of all the experiencers I have worked with, it is Carlos Diaz who seems to have developed the richest understanding of the interconnected web of nature. Diaz's experience of connecting with living creatures is so intense that he seems literally to become the thing he is describing.' Diaz's experience, Mack claims constitutes an 'awakening', a process which, he says, is common in abductees. Diaz told Mack that his contact with the ETs had instilled in him a need to preserve the environment and the ability to 'enjoy a beautiful planet'. Whether or not an extraterrestrial influence was involved, Diaz's new-found concern for the environment has certainly become a driving force in his life. he has repeatedly and passionately conveyed this environmental warning publicly, most notably at a UFO conference in Dusseldorf, Germany in 1995. Diaz has revealed that he had been informed through his contacts that the civilization of the visiting extraterrestrial, like ours, had been threatened by its own history of destruction, but had somehow managed to survive. He remains convinced that his contacts' disturbing prediction for our future is only too real - a prediction that states with near certainty that humanity, on its current course, is headed for total extinction.

ALIEN MESSENGER This outspokenness, coupled with the public nature of his experience, has le Diaz to assume visionary status in both his home town of Tepoztlan and UFO circles. however, Diaz has been quick to dispute this, claiming that he is not a unique visionary, but merely 'a messenger'. The real nature of Diaz's current incarnation aside, for many UFOlogists, the Diaz case remains among the most convincing on record. Indeed, few UFO reports exist that boast such impressive and abundant photographic evidence. And fewer still have emerged that have stood up to the scrutiny applied to Diaz's images.

PERFECT PICTURES Expert analysis of Carlos Diaz's UFO pictures has been extremely thorough. Mexican UFOlogist Jaime Maussan gave the original transparencies to Professor Victor Quesada at the Polytechnical Institute of the University of Mexico for examination. Quesada stated: 'We were shocked to discover that the spectrum of light from the object was unlike anything we have ever seen, it broke all previous parameters and didn't match anything in our data banks. The light was extraordinarily intense. There was no evidence of superimposition or a hoax. We estimated the object to be around 30 to 50 metres in diameter.' Interestingly, the photographs were also analysed by Dr Robert Nathan at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California. Nathan, a notorious UFO sceptic, stated that he could find no evidence of a fake.


But even if Diaz is a proven fake, he didnt take the Chibolton photo, i dont think we can conclude that since its a similar colour/config it must therefore be a fake on that basis

 

[Muadib]

Again i cant comment on the Diaz case myself, im certainly not insisting its true but some big names seem to be included here

Another UFO researcher intrigued by Diaz's case is Professor of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, John Mack. Mack has a long history of dealing with abductees and contactees and believes that the Diaz case is among the most convincing he has come across. in his book Passport to the Cosmos, he states: 'Out of all the experiencers I have worked with, it is Carlos Diaz who seems to have developed the richest understanding of the interconnected web of nature. Diaz's experience of connecting with living creatures is so intense that he seems literally to become the thing he is describing.' Diaz's experience, Mack claims constitutes an 'awakening', a process which, he says, is common in abductees. Diaz told Mack that his contact with the ETs had instilled in him a need to preserve the environment and the ability to 'enjoy a beautiful planet'. Whether or not an extraterrestrial influence was involved, Diaz's new-found concern for the environment has certainly become a driving force in his life. he has repeatedly and passionately conveyed this environmental warning publicly, most notably at a UFO conference in Dusseldorf, Germany in 1995. Diaz has revealed that he had been informed through his contacts that the civilization of the visiting extraterrestrial, like ours, had been threatened by its own history of destruction, but had somehow managed to survive. He remains convinced that his contacts' disturbing prediction for our future is only too real - a prediction that states with near certainty that humanity, on its current course, is headed for total extinction.

ALIEN MESSENGER This outspokenness, coupled with the public nature of his experience, has le Diaz to assume visionary status in both his home town of Tepoztlan and UFO circles. however, Diaz has been quick to dispute this, claiming that he is not a unique visionary, but merely 'a messenger'. The real nature of Diaz's current incarnation aside, for many UFOlogists, the Diaz case remains among the most convincing on record. Indeed, few UFO reports exist that boast such impressive and abundant photographic evidence. And fewer still have emerged that have stood up to the scrutiny applied to Diaz's images.

PERFECT PICTURES Expert analysis of Carlos Diaz's UFO pictures has been extremely thorough. Mexican UFOlogist Jaime Maussan gave the original transparencies to Professor Victor Quesada at the Polytechnical Institute of the University of Mexico for examination. Quesada stated: 'We were shocked to discover that the spectrum of light from the object was unlike anything we have ever seen, it broke all previous parameters and didn't match anything in our data banks. The light was extraordinarily intense. There was no evidence of superimposition or a hoax. We estimated the object to be around 30 to 50 metres in diameter.' Interestingly, the photographs were also analysed by Dr Robert Nathan at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California. Nathan, a notorious UFO sceptic, stated that he could find no evidence of a fake.


But even if Diaz is a proven fake, he didnt take the Chibolton photo, i dont think we can conclude that since its a similar colour/config it must therefore be a fake on that basis

True, but I have to look at these names and honestly, they don't inspire confidence. Mack is gone so we don't really know what his latest thoughts on Diaz would've been and besides that, Mack was never concerned with whether or not these experiences were objectively true, he was concerned with whether or not people believed them to be true and how they integrated those beliefs into their lives. I don't think I even need to say anything about Maussan and his alleged sources of analysis, this is a guy who despite being shown objective evidence of several hoaxes perpetrated against him, including one on MUFON's former TV show here in the US, has stubbornly maintained their veracity, I don't find him compelling at all. I can't find anything verifying this guy Nathan from JPL ever even investigated this case, other than stuff posted on sites advocating the reality of the Diaz case. It all strikes me as very Billy Meier-ish. Here's a report that I dug up from the late 70's that casts doubt on his story:

Carlos Alberto Diaz Was a Hoaxer - UFO Evidence

He also claimed at one point in one of his abductions that the aliens lent him a tripod because he left his at home. He needed the tripod so he could get shots of their ship. How extraordinarily convenient that advanced aliens from another galaxy flew across the universe or jumped in from a parallel dimension or whatever, with a tripod in tow for just such an occasion. Given that the facts in his original story don't add up at all, I think it's safe to conclude that this guy was pretty much full of it.

I think it's more likely a fake than it is a real ET vehicle. That's just my opinion.

 

[Constance]

Yeah.... compare that pic to this one:

Which is a photo made by known UFO hoaxer Carlos Diaz, they look very similar to me, other than the fact that Diaz's object is a tad brighter, that definitely throws up some red flags.

What if the same type of ufo was photographed in both instances? Very similar ufo photos have been obtained by others as well.

 

[Psychedelic_Alchemist]

Ok I just have to say, I'm listening to the beginning of the interview now and this guy already strikes me as full of shit, you cannot get high from marijuana just sitting in the back of a car, no matter how strongly it smells, it has to be smoked or ingested for it to become active. Strike one and I'm barely over 15 minutes in.

I'm glad you pointed that out. It struck me as extremely odd. It's clear Mr. Williams has bent the truth somewhat during the interview, which leaves one wondering what to believe and what not to believe.

 

[Randall]

I thought it was interesting that he thought that part of the reason Matt lost his job had to do with his interest in UFOs. It would be great to get some confirmation of his suspicion.

On his 1991 UFO sighting in South Whales. A seemingly strange orange triangular light seen for a very short period of time at night at some distance "sitting upright on the side of a hill" at the location of a cairn mound doesn't qualify as a UFO sighting. For all we know, there were some people camped out up there, and what he was looking at was the glow through the translucent sides of an orange tent lit from the inside by lanterns. Imagine something like the triangular side of this tent seen from far away up on a hill at night:

​

How does that explain why it was suddenly gone after he stopped the car and went back to double check it? The answer is simple. All the tent's residents had to do was get a little paranoid at a car stopping down below to check them out and turn off the light in the tent. This fits the description so well that based on the information in the interview, it's reasonable to suggest that the report was probably caused by a misidentification of a known object.

​

Crop Circles:

The above image is the only Field Guide I found in my short Internet search ( no Making Crop Circles for Dummies ).

Here's a link to a quick to a "How To" page: How to Make a Crop Circle: 12 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow

A link to an Android Crop Circle Making App: Crop Circle Maker for Android

A link to commercial crop circle makers: ¤ c i r c l e m a k e r s ¤

Basket Weave crop circle below ( Not sure if this was Matts or not ):
​

An interesting show, particularly the synchronistic experiences, but Matt might want to note that the radius of a circle doesn't fit 6 six times perfectly into its circumference. It's actually 6.28318530718 ( and even that isn't perfect. ) Rounded to 6.3 times, it's almost one-third more.

 

[Constance]

Thanks, I'm very interested in seeing it.

Here's the clip posted on Steve Alexander's website, with the text he wrote when he released it on youtube 20 years after he took the footage. Other videos of BOLs have been obtained in Wiltshire fields and in crop circles in recent years by visitors to crop circles. If I can locate them I'll post them as well.

On July 26th 1990, I filmed a ball of light close to two crop circles near to Milk Hill in Wiltshire. This was the first time that a ball of light had been filmed close to crop circles.

The ball of light came into view and dropped into the crop. At the time I thought it might be a bird or a balloon, or something else mundane. But it became clear after a while that it was something more bizarre! The light moved through the crop flashing and glinting (like sunlight reflecting off of tin foil) The light at times was very intense! Eventually the light took off and flew towards a tractor driver in the distance. As the ball of light flew over the tractor, the tractor stopped. Eventually the ball of light went off into the distance.

The tractor driver was interviewed about five months after the incident, and he said he remembered that day, and the ball of light which he saw fly over him. He said that it was as big as a beach ball and was glinting and flashing! He said that he does remember that the engine stopped as the light went over the tractor. At the time of the incident he did hot know that I was filming from my vantage point on Milk Hill.

When he informed his boss at the farm, and his friends of what he saw , he was not taken seriously and was laughed at. When the film of the event was put out to the public, it confirmed that he had indeed seen something that was very strange indeed.

Since that day many people have filmed similar objects in and around crop circles. I filmed another one in 2009, which shot into the floor lay of the formation at Morgan's Hill in Wiltshire. What these objects are is still unknown. They seem to move with purpose, and seem to have some kind of intelligence. Some people believe that they are connected to the creation of the crop circles.

I think there is a connection, but what it is seems unclear. If these balls of light do not make crop circles, then they do seem attracted to them for whatever reason.

This piece of historic film is shown publicly for for the first time on YouTube, since it was shown on various TV documentaries in the 1990's, Steve Alexander January 2010.

The Milk Hill UFO Footage

 

[Constance]

A ground shot inside the Hackpen Hill crop circle, reported July 15 of this year.

http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2013/hackpenhill/tn_weblowresHackpenHill.1.2013 213.jpg

And another:
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2013/hackpenhill/tn_HackpenHill2013Jul16252025286.jpg

 

[Jimi H.]

That's very interesting information which I will share with some cc researchers that are currently critiqueing MW's pronouncements and tactics in the continuing ideological battle over cc origins. One of those researchers theorizes .. that he was offered a deal to avoid prosecution and jail time -- i.e., that he become an MI5 agent. He would be useful to MI5, it's theorized..

I think that sounds a bit like a cop-out, and a very typical one for the paranormal scene, there's always a supposed conspiracy when things don't seem to work according to the convictions of the believers.

This is the ultimate character assasination, and it's a dirty trick.

 

[Jimi H.]

..
Actually there have been and continue to be many such cases, often discovered in the Canadian wilderness and remote crop fields..
A number of cc have been discovered in wild grasses (the interesting one in Gray, Tennessee, in May of this year was an example; so were the two formations discovered in a very remote region of Australia a few years ago, researched by Greg Jefferys). The reed circles discovered in Australia during the 1960s and/or 70s effectively instituted the association of cc with ufos (which has been supported by physical trace research in the ufo field over decades and in many locations on the planet).

This all sounds very enticing, but it would be great if you could link direct referrences. Because what may look like UFO landing spots or whatever, to some, may look like very mundane and natural artifacts to others. As mentioned previously, crops beaten down by rain are not paranormal in my world, it's just what goes on in nature.
Rings and patterns are certainly not unknown in nature, as another poster mentioned, fungus may grow in perfect circles while expanding outwards, here's an example:

As you can hear, I'm sceptical, but I'd still like to see what you're adding to the mix here, I just don't have the time to look it all up for myself.

 

[Jimi H.]

If they are harvesting conciousness as ive expounded on in other threads, then they need only tweak the product itself, not deal directly with the biovessels that produce it...

I heard you say this before, it sounds extremely morbid, akin to a Dracula-story, or something similar from gothic sci-fi horror fantasy. Why even go there, that's my most immediate question?

 

[Jimi H.]

..
In that context it makes perfect sense for the message to be to a degree ephemeral and ambiguous.
It gives those who are not ready for such a reality a way out, and those who are subtle confirmation.
A quantum telegram, whose contents must be resolved by the individual observer

This is quite interesting, and I've pondered something similar myself.

But I'd call your idea 'digital' (yes or no / 1 or 0), I don't see any reason to bring quantum mysticism into the equation.

And it seems perfectly logical to me that any contact scenario must include a prelude phase..

Yes, but does it need to stretch for generations? I'd argue that the critical mass was there in the 50ies/60ies, people were 'prepped' at that point. The number of spectacular events seems to have gone down since then. At least, that's what it looks like to me.

In general, the 'believer' in me fears that Cold War paranoia could have thwarted open contact because military types like to shoot first and ask questions afterwards. Who'd want to talk to folks on a planet where all you get is a bullet in the face!?

 

[Matthew Williams]

I felt Mr. Williams made light of being caught and arrested making crop circles. The fact is, as Gene stated, he was trespassing and then destroying a farmer's crop. He shouldn't have been too surprised when he got busted.

In hindsight I was not surprised to have been busted... but considering what I was trying to do was an experiment to help Whitley see the truth and hopefully help Michael and this was meant to be done quietly so as not to cause embarrassment to then and to open a dialogue on Circlemaking I was surprised to be promised one thing by Whitley and then to be so ruthlessly sold out. Yes what we do is illegal criminal activity but we have to think a little bigger than that part of the debate is we honestly want answers. The point was that if this was done with a farmers consent it wouldn't be a real circle under totally airtight conditions, the same conditions as the rest of the circles.

 

[Matthew Williams]

I just listened to the interview with MW. It was a well-laundered version of the history of crop circles and of the organized hoaxing program in Wiltshire centered at Circlemakers . orgz. MW hardly mentions that core group, and indeed he's never been part of their 'inner circle', though he might be employed by the same people who have employed the core group (not only to hoax crop circles but to produce disinformation concerning crop circles and cc research and to add to existing disinformation concerning ufo history).

You imply employment. Nobody employs circlemakers unless you mean to commission advert work for companies and mostly only one group ever gets that work - the Circlemakers orgz group. Nearly no other teams ever get a look in on that work because of the high profile of that team who rarely use artists outside of their close knit team. As far as being part of their inner circle - I was more friendly with them a while back and had participated in making several circles with them but as an invited artist who had skills. They prefer not to work with beginners due to their high standards. However I have differences of opinions with some members on some issues so our ability to work to create together stopped. Since then we have been openly critical of each other in the public domain. However as different teams we still agree on some things in so much as people are making circles and that weird experiences have been had be many involved whilst making circles. So I wish to make it clear that the massive proprtion of teams who make circles do so for no money and no personal recognition for their work. They do not sign their work in a way that could be recognised by outsiders and you really would have to know what you were looking at you spot their signatures, if at all. Before you ask it is not for me to point out these signatures or which circles are made by which teams. I can speak for my own but not for others works.

I just want to urge the writer to understand there is noguiding hand of humans telling circlemakers what to do - I think I may know what the writer is getting at and they may be suggesting some form of govt control - military etc, guiding the circlemakers and being their paymasters. It would be an exciting thing if such control existed but the truth is circlemakers are a widespread and disparate group who dont communicate well between groups other than in occasional emails saying hi, I tend to find. Sometimes these faces do bump in to each other in the pub or coincidentally out in the fields by almost sticking circles on the same spots, which is a strange phenomena I have been exploring with the documentaries and CirclemakersTV show... but you really should meet these people to learn the truth of why that isnt happening - another reason why CirclemakersTV exhasutive interviews were conducted to allay peoples fearful positions that we are Govt agents etc. On the show you get to meet the makers - see their backgrounds and differing beliefs on why they make circles and it helps dispel this myth of shadowy govt hands involved and infact points as we have said for a long time at this strange paranormal hands that guides circlemakers and researchers alike. Inside that tale is the real exciting revelations, to which even Colin pointed out he had personal experiences also - with him asking for a design in his mind and one appearing that night near his house. What you have to ask is why are humans picking up on this and doing it. In this area experiments need to be done to convince researchers.