Matthew Williams, Circlemaker

[mike]

I see what you're saying and while speculative, it's still very interesting, what in this whole morass isn't speculation anyway at this point? Still, again I just have to say, it seems to me that there are better ways to encourage us than the way they've gone about it, there are better ways to influence people and I think these could possibly be accomplished without violating the prime directive. For example, while not providing us with the formula for FTL flight, how about some unknown mathematical concepts that would gently lead us in that direction.

I guess that's one of my biggest beefs with this whole thing, if something supposedly paranormal presents us with nothing but things that we already know, it just seems much more likely that it came from human beings and not from any higher intelligence. It's the same beef I have with the majority of religious texts, nothing in them suggests outside influence and they contain no information that wasn't already known by mankind. I can't really see anything in the crop circle phenomenon that does either, but it's always possible that I'm missing something.

Which is entirely consistant with the quantum telegram scenario, if it wasnt ambiguous it would be either "on" or "off".
The idea may be to simply get you to think about the question, not actually provide any answer one way or the other
A Claytons contact, the contact you have when your not having contact

Claytons is the brand name of a non-alcoholic, non-carbonated beverage coloured and packaged to resemble bottled whisky. It was the subject of a major marketing campaign in Australia and New Zealand in the 1970s and 1980s, promoting it as "the drink you have when you're not having a drink" at a time when alcohol was being targeted as a major factor in the road toll. The jingle was written by Australian social satirist, John McKellar.[1]
Although the product is no longer being actively marketed, the name has entered into Australian and New Zealand vernacular where it represents a "poor substitute" or "an ineffective solution to a problem". It can also be used to describe something that is effectively in existence but does not take the appropriate name, e.g. a common-law couple might be described as having a "Claytons marriage".

For example, while not providing us with the formula for FTL flight, how about some unknown mathematical concepts that would gently lead us in that direction.

Well thats been claimed already

The majority (and perhaps all) of the genuine, non man-made crop circle formations are providing information on the construction of a physical vehicle that uses uses among other things, hydrogen, water, and microwaves. The ship features practical free energy, gravity shielding, star travel capabilities, and no doubt gives us the ability to eperiment with all kinds of 'far out' technologies.
At this point, it is also necessary to inform you that there is absolutely valid information about the crop circle ship in some of the man-made formations - coincidences beyond coincidences - thus it should be considered that the conciousness behind the genuine formations can have some serious influence upon the human circle makers. This fact is one which can unfortunately confuse the situation, and perhaps reduce to value of the information to some readers, however I cannot neglect to mention it.

The Crop Circle Ship - Refresh your reality with Crop Circles!

The Gravity Shielding Experiment from Chris Hardeman

 

[Goggs Mackay]

I also found Mr. Williams reply as to paying the farmer for destroying his crops quite enlightening. His reply was that would cost lots money to reimburse the farmer. Well DUH! Williams is clueless as to the idea of private property and why he got off lightly with a fine.

Agreed - that is the only bit that annoyed me. Moaning that it's too costly to do it honestly - well then, let's all steal someone else's livelihood for recognition.

There can be an argument for shoplifting if a family is starving but the vandalism of crops is not for any noble cause.

I will say that I really like Mathew's telling of his views and the events - his answers were well thought-out and crafted and he didn't waste many words coming out with pretty detailed yet concise answers. The thing is, if he started making circles to prove they can be done, then he'd achieved that long before getting caught. I think he got just as caught up in the buzz of fooling people as much as the inner 'circle' of circle makers.

Definitely a great guest IMO.

 

[mike]

Sure, but in that case, this is one hell of a long prelude as its been going on for multiple decades. I guess maybe for something that would so thoroughly shatter our current paradigms, such a period of preparation may be not only possible but necessary.

I just have to say, I hope I'm still around when they move to phase 2.

And it may be a long time yet, the "rule" might be simply parity

That might be technological parity or socialogical parity or both, and perhaps other criteria as well.
But the rule might state the parity must be home grown, it may be acceptable as in the political grafitti idea to subtly present ideas, but they must never know the author.

Which leads us to another twist, which is where you have a rule, you have rule breakers.
If an ET(s) are breaking the rules and dropping hints and clues, they would need to do so in such a way as to hide their identity, not so much from us but from their fellow collective members.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Ok I just have to say, I'm listening to the beginning of the interview now and this guy already strikes me as full of shit, you cannot get high from marijuana just sitting in the back of a car, no matter how strongly it smells, it has to be smoked or ingested for it to become active. Strike one and I'm barely over 15 minutes in.

Actually I agree but it was the other guy getting 'paranoid' and I think the other guy was just bringing on genuine paranoia just sweating about transporting a cargo you do not want to go missing on your watch!

His innocence about this answer tells me he has probably never touched the stuff.

 

[Muadib]

If an ET(s) are breaking the rules and dropping hints and clues, they would need to do so in such a way as to hide their identity, not so much from us but from their fellow collective members.

Sure, but if we can postulate that it may be ET, wouldn't it be painfully obvious to their fellow collective members that somebody is down here screwing around? Perhaps they would need some kind of hard proof to shut them down. I was actually going to bring up the rule breaking thing but you beat me to it.

 

[mike]

Ok I just have to say, I'm listening to the beginning of the interview now and this guy already strikes me as full of shit, you cannot get high from marijuana just sitting in the back of a car, no matter how strongly it smells, it has to be smoked or ingested for it to become active. Strike one and I'm barely over 15 minutes in.

You can get ill just from touching it although clearly in this case we are talking massive exposure

Albania: hundreds fall ill after harvesting cannabis | World news | The Guardian

 

[Constance]

I don't get the "high strange" component of these things. Winds blowing down crops don't seem that odd to me. I've seen some pretty wild wind effects here in Texas. One side of the street can look fine and the trees can be denuded on the opposite side of the street. That trails might cut through a field by a small tornado doesn't seem that strange to me. Am I missing something?

I agree with Chris that some of those apparent blow-down cases have elements of strangeness, particularly in the case shown in the middle photograph he cited. As I recall that case, it occurred in Russia several years ago and the effects in that crop field (indicating an immense and powerful storm of some sort) were restricted to a single field, as if an invisible wall separated the force moving in the air from the field next to the one scoured out.

 

[mike]

Sure, but if we can postulate that it may be ET, wouldn't it be painfully obvious to their fellow collective members that somebody is down here screwing around? Perhaps they would need some kind of hard proof to shut them down. I was actually going to bring up the rule breaking thing but you beat me to it.

Which is why like a political graffiti artist you do so in the dead of night with a mask and gloves on.
If you had the means to implant the compulsion to do so in the locals, they would in effect be your mask and gloves..........

Recent advances in science and technology can be used to obtain the martial arts skills, learn to drive an aircraft or to speak a foreign language, without leaving home.
Researchers from the Boston University and the Computational Neuroscience Laboratories «ATR» (Kyoto, Japan) affirm that the mechanism of “uploading” knowledge in the human brain can be created in the near future. This technology will allow a person to acquire the necessary knowledge without years of training. Forming a visual image is a complex process. In different parts of the brain multiple points, lines, and colors are formed in their movement, then they all come together, and a person gets the opportunity to see an object the way it is.
In their experiments, scientists managed to improve visual perception of the brain areas responsible for this process with the help of the Functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging (fMRI) which allow to activate the necessary parts of the brain.
Experiments with volunteers showed that after this “training” their visual perception had improved, even if they didn’t know what exactly they were taught.
The point is that scientists have discovered that the brain areas responsible for the higher stage of visual perception are so plastic, that it’s sufficient to specify the desired pattern of activity in order to “upload” the necessary knowledge into the brain.
According to scientists, after creating such a technology it will be possible to enable the chosen program before going to sleep, and wake up in the morning with the necessary skills.

Its thus not inconceivable that a rule breaking entity could implant the instructions, but also like any good hacker do so in such a way as to hide the hackers ID and address

 

[Muadib]

You can get ill just from touching it although clearly in this case we are talking massive exposure

Albania: hundreds fall ill after harvesting cannabis | World news | The Guardian

Perhaps after handling such large amounts of cannabis they aren't properly cleaning up and thus are unintentionally ingesting what is known as finger hash, it's the only thing I can think of because I've never in all of my years as a cannabis enthusiast seen somebody become ill or get high simply from touching the plants or being around them.

I think Goggs probably has the correct answer, which is that Matthew was mistaken in his interpretation due to his naivety about the effects of cannabis, the guy with him was probably just afraid of losing his job or being subject to criminal charges in the event that something went wrong.

 

[Constance]

The means and the medium may be part of the message itself.

You make a very good point. The message also might have several levels, conveying not only that there is something wrong with the way we grow our food and exhaust planetary resources by our demand for meat, but also that there is other intelligence in the vicinity (perhaps of various kinds) that is able to recognize these facts and attempt to communicate with us about them. The recognition of other intelligent species living in proximity to our planet and interacting with us; the subtler suggestions that other intelligences not visible to us might always have coexisted with us on this planet; and the evidence that human consciousnesses survive the death of the material body and remain involved with us all revolutionize our conception of reality. It's possible that those various 'other' intelligences have collaborated in an effort to wake us from our current objectivist, physicalist slumber for a variety of reasons.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

What about ice and snow circles and even 'tree circles' - I think I've seen photos of trees from above in which some trees seem to make circles, and out of character to the rest of the forest? Anyone else seen any of these? Of course, the Sherman Ranch had a documented ice circle.

 

[Muadib]

I just want to repost this because it may have been missed and I think it's important:

. Steve Alexander who has captured an enormous number of aerial photographs of cc over the last three decades has also filmed/videotaped BOLs moving at great speed over the crop fields, and over some crop circles.

Are these videos available online and if so, can you link them here? The only video of that type I've seen was clearly CGI and was later claimed by an aspiring CGI artist, it was of balls of light hovering over a field and creating a crop circle.

 

[manxman]

Ice circles are no mystery, tree circles will be something fungal, and crop circles are made by clowns, for clowns, hope this helps.

 

[Muadib]

I find it interesting that every time these supposed higher intelligences communicate, it's almost always something that we want to hear. You aren't alone, you survive physical death, it's always good news. Perhaps part of our problem is that we're projecting what we want to be true onto these messages thereby misinterpreting them completely, and that's yet another reason why none of this ever goes anywhere. Just a thought.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Well, perhaps the higher intelligence is just a reflection.

 

[Constance]

Well the obvious example that might be at play is the StarTrek prime directive rule.
A federation of ET's might decide (perhaps by learning from experience) that landing on the tribal leaders lawn always leads to disaster.
We know within our own experince when an advanced culture meets a less advanced one the less advanced one gets sublimated.

So there are social and moral reasons why either an individual ET species or a collective of species might formulate such rules
There are also practical ones, If they give us their FTL technology, then we need not develop our own. It may be better to encourage us to reach for the stars and see if we develop a new and novel way of doing so.
And then there is the time travel aspect, If what we see as linear time is in fact shortsighted, an artifact of being emersed in it, then it may be good policy not to directly interact with us while we are still in this state

If they are harvesting conciousness as ive expounded on in other threads, then they need only tweak the product itself, not deal directly with the biovessels that produce it.

The list goes on and on, but my point is we cant look at the nature of the alleged message itself and assume its form implys incompetence or lack of intellegence.

Very interesting ideas, with which I agree. I'm relatively new here so could you direct me to threads in which you've discussed your idea that the consciousness (or individual consciousnesses) of humans is being 'harvested'?

 

[Constance]

Are these videos available online and if so, can you link them here? The only video of that type I've seen was clearly CGI and was later claimed by an aspiring CGI artist, it was of balls of light hovering over a field and creating a crop circle.

I'll get a link to Steve Alexander's video and post it here. (as I recall it was a compilation of several video 'takes')

 

[Muadib]

Well, perhaps the higher intelligence is just a reflection.

Always a possibility, but I find it much more likely that there is no higher intelligence and it's just us, whether via hoaxers or some kind of collective unconscious or perhaps some other mechanism that we're completely unaware of.

 

[Muadib]

I'll get a link to Steve Alexander's video and post it here. (as I recall it was a compilation of several video 'takes')

Thanks, I'm very interested in seeing it.

 

[manxman]

or it could be just natural, wind rain, or 'planks' with planks.