May 31, 2009

[swatcher]

Swatcher,
So yeah, perhaps my ego sometimes asserts itself, it sorta has to for me to have the fortitude to slog through some of this stuff every week. 3.5 years, we haven't missed a single week yet, do the math. I have indeed had a lot of paranormal experiences in my life, the one thing I do not and have never done is claim that I have an actual understanding of the reality of what's happened to me. I'm open to hearing new ideas and opinions, but when someone says that have THE ANSWERS™, you better believe I'm gonna give them a bit of a hard time. That's what I do, many appreciate it, some don't, and them's the shakes.
dB

dB,

here is my question to you. Since you admit that you have no clue what's really going on in the paranormal / UFO world, where is your baseline for telling other individuals they are flat wrong in their beliefs? Maybe they hit the bulls-eye dead center? This is not sarcasm. I'm really curious about your reasoning. Don't you make the same mistake as the "The Answers™" crowd when you do that?

Re your video. The poor lad got the title wrong. He seems to be very unhappy with the portrayal of God in the bible and I can second that. So the title should be "Children Of A Stupid Bible". I feel bad for anybody who needs to find God in a book. That's not how you get there. Getting to know God is a personal journey.

All the best.

 

[conor]

Well, my "reactionary" behaviour (as you call it) against religion comes from the tender, loving care I received at the hands of Roman Catholic "sisters" and "brothers" during my school years. That and the fact that after having grown up, I made use of what cognitive abilities I have and saw that it was time to put aside childish things.

I'm sorry if I upset you. I come from Ireland, and we are currently in the process of coming to terms with the full extent of what happened over here for over forty years in those schools and institutions (which were state run over here!) You have every right to be more than angry at those horrible people.

I am not for religion as such. Remember, the holocaust was based on the "science" of eugenics and race, which at the time were considered proper science by some mainstream science. I am extremely distrustful of "causes" which people follow. And that's on both sides of the extremes. What really gets me is extremism, on either side.

Again, I 'm sorry I upset you.

 

[marduk]

Who cares if these prophecies are true and there's a link to whatever the UFO phenomenon is?

I mean, it's interesting, but step one has to be figure out what's happening now using whatever controls, restrictions, and testing that you can actually perform. This is why it's so important to go directly to experiencers in my opinion. Everything else is second hand, third had, or in a biblical sense, maybe 250-generation hand.

Only once you come up with some kind of testable, verifiable stake in the ground for what you know can you reinterpret the "historical" record (and I would very loosely call the bible a historical document) through the lens of what you now know. Otherwise there's no way of teasing the signal from noise... so you're just engaging in intellectual masturbation coming up with theories about what some guy did or did not do 2000 years ago.

So until then, who cares?

 

[aNorthernSoul]

Who cares if these prophecies are true and there's a link to whatever the UFO phenomenon is?

I mean, it's interesting, but step one has to be figure out what's happening now using whatever controls, restrictions, and testing that you can actually perform. This is why it's so important to go directly to experiencers in my opinion. Everything else is second hand, third had, or in a biblical sense, maybe 250-generation hand.

Only once you come up with some kind of testable, verifiable stake in the ground for what you know can you reinterpret the "historical" record (and I would very loosely call the bible a historical document) through the lens of what you now know. Otherwise there's no way of teasing the signal from noise... so you're just engaging in intellectual masturbation coming up with theories about what some guy did or did not do 2000 years ago.

So until then, who cares?

Yup, history is useless eh? Uh huh...

 

[marduk]

Yup, history is useless eh? Uh huh...

In this context, yes. Until we actually understand what's happening today, more idle speculation about what happened thousands of years ago is pretty much moot.

In my opinion part of why understanding of this phenomenon has stalled is because we're so busy interpreting other people's experiences that we don't focus on the experience event itself. Up close and personal.

We're sitting on an undiscovered treasure trove: people are experiencing things today. Right this very minute. And odds are, they don't get reported, written down, or discussed. My sense is that we can begin there... we have immediate access to it with only one filter -- that of the experiencer. This has to be better than having the lens of multiple people with multiple agendas reshaping history through generations to suit them.

 

[marmer]

I agree with that, but keep in mind that the prophesy he was referring to is believed to be thousands of years old. With that in mind though, I think, especially with a clear understanding of the events that brought about the formation of Israel, that it isn't inconceivable that people with enough power can knowingly create the scenarios that can later be pointed to as "fulfilled prophesy."

Tru dat, but I imagine every vanquished people has a similar prophecy of a future return to past glories. I think once it became clear that there might be a way to make it work that A LOT of people quite openly worked to return the Jews to their "homeland." That's probably the biggest single reason why there's so much resentment of the West in the Middle East.

 

[inuk2600]

Back in the late nineties in my christian years I used to follow Chuck Missler and Mark Eastman. Chuck was fascinating to listen to as he talked about the hypothesis that UFO's related to signs and wonders and the return of the nephilim, I think he was on Art Bell too. I remember thinking yup! that's what it is, case closed. So I totally sympathize with how some of you feel about this topic.
However since then I've abandoned the comfort of certainty and once again relish the genuine mystery and the pursuit of answers.

 

[inuk2600]

Just for fun I google searched the terms nephilim and dmt and guess who popped up first? L.A. Marzulli. Looks like he's doing his homework (at least from his perspective).
I'm very interested in the subject of DMT and related experiences, have there been any Paracast episodes covering this topic?

 

[aNorthernSoul]

In this context, yes. Until we actually understand what's happening today, more idle speculation about what happened thousands of years ago is pretty much moot.

In my opinion part of why understanding of this phenomenon has stalled is because we're so busy interpreting other people's experiences that we don't focus on the experience event itself. Up close and personal.

We're sitting on an undiscovered treasure trove: people are experiencing things today. Right this very minute. And odds are, they don't get reported, written down, or discussed. My sense is that we can begin there... we have immediate access to it with only one filter -- that of the experiencer. This has to be better than having the lens of multiple people with multiple agendas reshaping history through generations to suit them.

I can see how you'd feel that way, and you do make valid points. However, I think that part of understanding a circumstance or happening is to know where, when and how it originally occurred. I also do delve into some of the "conspiracy" topics so have an inclination to think that the general reality we live in, and certain accounts of history may not be exactly as we deem them to be. Because of this, I think researching backwards is as important as researching forward. What if UFOs are not ET, but just a segment of people here that have a keener grasp on some ancient science that the general population is unaware of? It seems many of the larger figureheads in history had a major interest in ancient history and theology. I can't help but think it is possible part of the answer could lay in the past. Of course, maybe it doesn't either. /shrug

Tru dat, but I imagine every vanquished people has a similar prophecy of a future return to past glories. I think once it became clear that there might be a way to make it work that A LOT of people quite openly worked to return the Jews to their "homeland." That's probably the biggest single reason why there's so much resentment of the West in the Middle East.

It's possible, yes.

Back in the late nineties in my christian years I used to follow Chuck Missler and Mark Eastman. Chuck was fascinating to listen to as he talked about the hypothesis that UFO's related to signs and wonders and the return of the nephilim, I think he was on Art Bell too. I remember thinking yup! that's what it is, case closed. So I totally sympathize with how some of you feel about this topic.
However since then I've abandoned the comfort of certainty and once again relish the genuine mystery and the pursuit of answers.

I wasn't even Christian, but I had the exact same notion when I first delved into that theory as well. It did seem to tie up all the loose ends. Of course, when I started to look even deeper, I just made more loose ends for myself. Ha!

Just for fun I google searched the terms nephilim and dmt and guess who popped up first? L.A. Marzulli. Looks like he's doing his homework (at least from his perspective).
I'm very interested in the subject of DMT and related experiences, have there been any Paracast episodes covering this topic?

Actually, another name in that portion of researchers who I really like is David Flynn. I am a computer programmer with a love of numerology, and he really takes that to a whole new level. He obviously isn't for everyone, but very interesting. He too seems decided that these are the Watchers from Genesis and the Book of Enoch, but that theory aside, some of the numerology he digs up about Roswell and stuff is neat if nothing else... though I think there may be something to it. After all, the universal language is math right?

 

[threed]

Aside from all else, what he's doing is very interesting from the standpoint of religious history. He's giving us an intimate glimpse into the way christianity first formed.

Christians are a lot like the Borg on Star Trek. When they can't burn you outright, they will try to assimilate you. This is why the cult so permeates with pagan ideas.

Back in days gone by, a matriarchal religion -- Isis worship -- was a serious contender for the faithful. So, early christianity assimilated her in the form of immaculate conception and the veneration of Mary.

[John -- another wandering Rasputin-like rabbi, representing an enitrely different brand of trailer park judaism -- got assimilated into the Jesus story (and made into his cousin) for the same reasons. It immediately brought in new members.]

Today, apparently, the UFO field is seen as a ripe source of new believers. So, you see him morphing together ideas from the UFO field into the christian paradigm and claiming to provide the "true" explanation.

Future stained glass windows will probably depict angels flying around in saucer-shaped (or triangular) vehicles... Wait -- they already do!

 

[swatcher]

Here are two links re the claim that evoking the name of Jesus Christ stops alien abductions:

Alien Abduction Termination Case Files-Testimonies Index

ELLEN'S TESTIMONY

I have no idea what to think of it. I just wanted to post it so you can have a look and check it out.

 

[threed]

Here are two links re the claim that evoking the name of Jesus Christ stops alien abductions

I wonder if anyone has tried the reverse?

You know, like: "Be gone, you Watchtower representative, in the name of EBE!!!"

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

I have no problem with atheists, but mostly, they have HORRIBLE logical para dimes that argue against cartoon versions of murky understanding of theology and what the text's actually say.

So do most theologians.

For example... I'm predominantly Italian and Irish. So guess what religion my parents were? Luckily they weren't the church going type... but at one point I got stuck going to Sunday School. So I asked one of the nuns... "what race was Adam and Eve?" I don't remember the answer, but she didn't like the question much! I'm sure she thought they were white.. like the fictions paintings of Jesus we all know. He never would have looked like that living in that part of the world. So where did all the other people come from?

Another question was "if Noah gathered up two of every animal to repopulate the earth, what about the animals he didn't know about, like the Platypus? How did he get two of them, and how did he get them back where they belong?" And why didn't the predators eat the pray animals?

Of course then they use the old copout that God has mysterious powers and all that. Yawn.

While there is some evidence that there was a very large tsunami from the collapse of an archipelago on the coast of Spain (I think), the rest is a fairy tale, much like the one about how the pyramids were built with wooden rollers, thousands of slaves, and dirt ramps.

For once I'd like to hear an "expert" say "I don't know".

And they think the Earth is like 6,000 years old... so what about the dinosaur fossils? The Sphinx is older than that!

All of our religions were probably told to the people who started them by the "visitors" that they called "gods" or "angels" or whatever, and is for controlling the human population. "God" might be a universal force, but really couldn't give a crap what goes on here, which is in evidence every day. I knew all this when I was 5 years old.

Also if you really study the Bible, you see that there are very few direct quotes from Jesus. Like 2% of the stuff in there. One story has it that the New testament was commissioned by the Vatican, and was written by the Piso family. They wrote what the church wanted them to write. Jesus was a known mystic, but wasn't picked to be the "savior" until a couple of hundred years after he was dead (in France). They also don't tell you he was born probably in July or August and went to study with one of the Buddhas in his formative years. He knew the real deal, which is why he didn't want a church set up around his teachings. Which of course they did anyway.

No doubt religion helps some people, but look at how many have died in the name of God?

You can't go by what "the text really say" because they have been poorly translated and heavily edited! Did you know that reincarnation (Law of Rebirth) used to be in the Bible? Karma too. Reincarnation was taught in the Roman Catholic Church until 553 A.D. when it was voted out (3-2) at the Council of Constantinople. John the Baptist was Elias and Elijah. The church figured that would make people lax about being good, so they removed it. It's a good read, but mostly fiction.

Just read "The Gods of Eden" for a real eye opening experience.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

I wonder if anyone has tried the reverse?

You know, like: "Be gone, you Watchtower representative, in the name of EBE!!!"

That would be "Begone in the name of YHWH!"

My wife was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. It is interesting that no one could pronounce the name of God. it was more of a sound than a word.

What's THAT tell you?

It's an interesting religion... "Please join our religion, and by the way, you probably wont be one of the people saved. Sorry, there's no more room on the bus"

I think the grays are just worried they picked up a crazy person.... that's why the abduction stops. Actually they let you know when you are little not to listen to that stuff.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

I'm open to hearing new ideas and opinions, but when someone says that have THE ANSWERS™, you better believe I'm gonna give them a bit of a hard time. That's what I do, many appreciate it, some don't, and them's the shakes.

I appreciate it! I think you and gene have one of the best postcasts on the subject precisely because of that. This is one of the first time I'm agreeing with the hosts of the shows!

The problem with anyone who thinks they have answers to any of these unanswerable questions is they then close off their mind to new ideas. When you think you have the answer, you stop looking for the answer.

And I really think we will never understand the whole thing unless it tells us, and then we probably can't believe that either.

 

[threed]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by UBERDOINK
I have no problem with atheists, but mostly, they have HORRIBLE logical para dimes that argue against cartoon versions of murky understanding of theology and what the text's actually say.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
"So do most theologians." Right you are!!!

It always strikes me as funny when people talk about what the "texts actually say..." Most modern christian sects claim to follow the "Word as originally delivered" or something to that effect.

But when you investigate their teachings you find they actually follow various doctinal interpretations (like the Westminster Confessional or the like...). They themselves don't know what "their" book says.

It nowhere says to keep Sunday as the day of rest. It only always taught Saturday. It nowhere teaches an eternal torture of Hell for sinners. No Christmas. No Easter. No Lent.

In one place it says plainly that the dead have no consciousness whatever. In other place it questions whether the souls of animals go to heaven.

Ezekiel saw the celestrial sphere of Mithra... Isn't the bread and wine really harkening back to prehistoric rituals of canabalism (with precisely the same meanings)? Isn't the holy trinity actually taken from the Roman Capitaline Trinity? Isn't the veneration of Jesus a take-off on the Roman emperor cult? And as the Moslems will protest, isn't Christianity defying the very central tenet of the OT -- God is One?

I know we NEED to believe. But needing doesn't make it so. The universe will go on despite our needs any way it will. Death is a bummer. No one wants to face it. But there you are.

 

[swatcher]

I appreciate it! I think you and gene have one of the best postcasts on the subject precisely because of that. This is one of the first time I'm agreeing with the hosts of the shows!

The problem with anyone who thinks they have answers to any of these unanswerable questions is they then close off their mind to new ideas. When you think you have the answer, you stop looking for the answer.

And I really think we will never understand the whole thing unless it tells us, and then we probably can't believe that either.

Good shows indeed, but I still don't understand how dB is in a position to judge other beliefs when he has no clue what's going on? That's a riddle to me and he has yet to answer that one LOL.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Why does everybody get so reactionary when it comes to the belief or lack of in God.

Fear of being blasphemous. It's ingrained in people to fear God, and not say bad things about him, or he will smite you.

But they are mixing up "God" with the "(land)Lord", the latter being the one who owned us, like cattle.

Someone's gotta work in them gold mines ...

 

[David Biedny]

Good shows indeed, but I still don't understand how dB is in a position to judge other beliefs when he has no clue what's going on? That's a riddle to me and he has yet to answer that one LOL.

Well, there are two things: A). I think I have a clue or two, and B). I use a combination of logic and intuition, more the former than the latter, and when someone is severely lacking any logic to their claims, and my intuition tells me that they're FOS, I call them on it. I'm willing to have a discussion, but when someone says THEY KNOW, I tell them they don't. I could indeed be wrong, I reserve that right at all times (as I've said many, many times before). I can present some of my own theories with background and logic, and am more than willing to do so, but I never claim to have the ultimate answers. That doesn't mean I don't have some clues. Thinking in B&W is too limiting, I like colors, hues and shades.

Beliefs? I could care less. I'm looking for understanding.

dB

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Good shows indeed, but I still don't understand how dB is in a position to judge other beliefs when he has no clue what's going on? That's a riddle to me and he has yet to answer that one LOL.

I didn't see it that way. Marzulli was proclaiming to know the only true answer, and kept grilling dB to say "yes or no". I'm tolerant of anyone's beliefs, until they try and cram it down your throat, like Marzulli was doing. Born again Christians seem to have a propensity of doing that.

I also think Marzulli had a lot of stuff mixed up. I can appreciate that some of the things written back then might have pertained to paranormal events that the witnesses couldn't understand, and might have even been portrayed in a fashion of being a religious experience, with the perpetrators posing as a powerful and angry God. And maybe they were a powerful and angry non human entity!

Religion has done things like teach us that animals, and even dark skinned people, have no soul, and wont go to heaven! If that's what it's like there, no thanks! I love my cat and my brown skinned wife and kids.

I also think the experience looked like what people believed. As humans became more technologically advanced, the experiences seem to match our technology, while still being more advanced. So first you had angels and then the airships and then flying saucers. When no human could fly, anything flying was amazing. Now we have to see HUGE silent ships that defy the laws of physics. That'll show 'em! it's all about intimidation. God wouldn't do that. God would be more like Bill Cosby talking to Theo. lol

You can take prophesies and fit them into any event. The middle east has been a place of turmoil for centuries. You can't take all that stuff literally. I'm sure the next big war will break out there, and I don't need the Bible to tell me so.

If the ufonauts were truly evil beings, they could have done away with us a long time ago.