New Jacques Vallee Interview:

[Burnt State]

This fascinates me endlessly.

Let's take it as legit for a second: why would a presumably technologically advanced species warn human children to not be so "technologized."

Is this like an adult alcoholic warning a child not to drink beer? Been there, done that? Isn't it a tad hypocritical of the alien - who just exited a shiny metal craft - to warn against technology use?

I've had discussions with fundamentalist Christians who argue that God is very real and directly involved in our lives. They take the story of original sin and salvation literally.

My question has always been: If this is indeed the case, why not be more direct in sharing this very important information with us?

We've always wanted to steal fire from the gods and when we do discover those double edged swords we seem to punish ourselves severely, take atomic bombs & nuclear power for example. Perhaps the message to the children is about the types of technology we've chosen - overly complicated, profit driven and polluting. Perhaps the suggestion is to select better, cleaner technology that might be much simpler i.e. solar.

And it's the same in the occult as well; the belief that UHIs are guiding us to become our "higher selves." And again, it's the same with DMT/Ayahausca: the spirit of the vine guides people (sometimes) toward inner growth.

Burnt, you seem to suggest the same with this Vallee-esque UAP/UHI control system. Is it the same control system (stimulus) just wrapped up in a different guise?

Again, we have these schools of thought suggesting that the human race is being subtly guided/controlled by some UHI.

Vallée posits a lot of interesting ideas, our relationship to the invisible college, how UFO's have been used to manipulate belief systems, the role of psychological operations etc.. He has seen a lot of variations on those themes and it wouldn't surprise me if there are some speculations that he keeps to himself or chooses not to or can't talk about, just like the rest of the world. But the things he can prove clearly he does put out there. Vallée suggests that this control system may be an experiment, and as I said, we could be subject or object. There is proof of little, but in the pursuit just more confirmations of our existential angst. I don't think we're good with the idea of being alone in space, little lost lamb of the milky way is our species. But there is also an independent radical & revolutionary strain to us for we can walk on the moon and peer to the edges of the universe with our own probes. We are also tenacious explorers who will continue to pull down more answers from the sky for our endless questions.

Let's take the above scenario as being factual for a moment: there is an unidentified, higher than human intelligence which has subtly been interacting with humans physically and mentally since the dawn of mankind.

1) What is the identity of the higher intelligence(s)?

2) What is the motive(s) for controlling/guiding humans, and

3) Why is the interaction so subtle?

We're not the first age of humans to be asking similar questions. Why do the little people take our children? Who turns the sun on in the morning? Is my destiny controlled by the gods - am I ruled by fate, fortune or free will. These questions are Shakespearean, cave man and come from romantic metaphysical poetry & contemporary philosophers.

Their (UHI) identity has always been beyond us as are their motives that appear to be benignly indifferent for the most part. We haven't been hybridized, enslaved or eaten so either UHI are unintested in us altogether (it's just us bumbling about reality through the tangled woods of our folklore and the myths we make) or their prodding is very subtle indeed.

And one could also argue skeptically, and rightly so, that there is little to no real evidence of our direct contact with an alien species ever on planet earth. Yes, there are a handful of interesting drawings, strange stories, and the odd message a contactee may claim having to do with us trying to achieve a better nature & more harmony with the planet. But no real hardcore evidence exists - it's like ghosts rockets; now you see them and *poof* now you don't. It's a secret magic theatre contstructed for select audiences only.

I was going to post more on different UHI cases, many of which seem to feature children to ask why this particular audience as a theme for multiple witnesses sharing UHI contact? In another thread on the forum @ProphetofOccam brought up the openness of children and how many of the most fantastic and incredible personal experiences we have are often during childhood. Perhaps the mind is more open then and that's why Randal saw his talking rabbit when he was young or why kids get treated to the alien picnic & sight seeing tour in the field. Do we lose part of our own magic when we get older, more pragmatic, rationale, suspicious and certain about how things work?

I'm also endlessly fascinated by these contactee claimants, their implications and the possible reasons behind why they claim such experiences. It certainly is something that has been part of us for a very long time, yielding few clues or answers. But still a good puzzle.

 

[Soupie]

It's a secret magic theatre contstructed for select audiences only.

If that was an allusion to Hermann Hesse and Steppenwolf, then kudos to you, sir!

But yes, absolutely. And why? Is it because these experiences are temporal, inter-group, subjective hallucinations or does the phenomena simply like to fuck with people, trickster style? Or is there another reason?

I've found myself wondering about this in regards to this excellently documented case: Chile Releases Official Study on UFO Photos | Leslie Kean

The photos were taken at the Collahuasi copper mine, more than 14,000 feet above sea level in the Andean plateau in the far north of Chile. An extremely remote location with low oxygen levels and unusually clear skies, the area is desolate and inhospitable.

What!? Why would such a spectacular, er, thing appear in the sky above a desolate area and do a little dance for four technicians?

I ask"why not me?," and they're probably asking, "Why us?"

-----

And here's another great article regarding DMT and the potentially non-human intelligences known as elf-machines/machine-elves:

DMT: You Cannot Imagine a Stranger Drug or a Stranger Experience | VICE United States

Below is my composite of McKenna’s three composites, arranged chronologically, with approximate amounts of time, in minutes and seconds, elapsed since the initial toke of DMT, vaporized in a glass pipe:

0:00. First toke. Colors brighten, edges sharpen, distant things gain clarity—”there is a sense as though all the air in the room has been sucked out.”

0:10. Second toke. You close your eyes and “colors begin racing together, and it forms this mandalic, floral, slowly rotating thing”—”usually yellow-orange”—which McKenna called “the chrysanthemum.” Then “you either break through it, or you require one more toke.” (“The leather-lunged hash smokers among us have a leg up in this department.”)

0:20. Third toke. The chrysanthemum parts. There’s a sound of “a plastic bread wrapper, or the crackling of flame,” and “an impression of transition.” Then ”it’s as though there were a series of tunnels or chambers that you are tumbling down.”

0:40. You burst into this “place.”

In one composite, at this point, McKenna said: “And language cannot describe it—accurately. Therefore I will inaccurately describe it. The rest is now lies.” And later: “I mean you have to understand: these are metaphors in the truest sense, meaning that they're lies!” McKenna’s awareness of and engagement with this aspect of DMT increases my interest in his DMT accounts. In one lecture, he said:

The reason it’s so confounding is because its impact is on the language-forming capacity itself. So the reason it’s so confounding is because the thing that is trying to look at the DMT is infected by it—by the process of inspection. So DMT does not provide an experience that you analyze. Nothing so tidy goes on. The syntactical machinery of description undergoes some sort of hyper-dimensional inflation instantly, and then, you know, you cannot tell yourself what it is that you understand. In other words, what DMT does can’t be downloaded into as low-dimensional a language as English.

The place, or space, you’ve burst into—called “the dome” by some—seems to be underground, and is softly, indirectly lit. The walls are “crawling with geometric hallucinations, very brightly colored, very iridescent with deep sheens and very high, reflective surfaces—everything is machine-like and polished and throbbing with energy.” McKenna said:

But that is not what immediately arrests my attention. What arrests my attention is the fact that this space is inhabited—that the immediate impression as you break into it is there’s a cheer. [...] You break into this space and are immediately swarmed by squeaking, self-transforming elf-machines...made of light and grammar and sound that come chirping and squealing and tumbling toward you. And they say, “Hooray! Welcome! You’re here!” And in my case, “You send so many and you come so rarely!”

0:50. You’re “appalled.” You’re thinking “Jesus H. Fucking Christ, what is this? What is it?” McKenna observed:

And the weird thing about DMT is it does not affect what we ordinarily call the mind. The part that you call you—nothing happens to it. ...​

 

[SRL+]

Talking rabbit.., Hmmm… sounds like something perhaps experienced on LSD, in which brings a thought to mind. This thought includes the consumption of entheogens and group hallucinations in which members of a tribe, or group would experience the same hallucination together. I spoke briefly with an educator who told me that he along with some others of a group shared in a collective hallucination while under the influence of entheogens. This brings me back to the Ariel School encounter as there are entheogens that have been known to go airborne. Would it be at all possible that these children unknowingly shared in a collective experience while under the influence of entheogens that they somehow ingested?

If so, what may have been the mechanism that caused them to specifically witness beings, along with a craft?

One thing that is certain is that anyone who thinks that they can simply go out and find any type of meaningful truth after consuming entheogens is seriously mistaken. Depending on ones mindset, the entheogen, along with the quality and amount consumed, may lead to an alteration of consciousness that may not be as pleasant as expected, in perhaps lasting a lifetime.

Vallee doesn’t hold back on his thoughts, it's just that there are those who are unable to fully appreciate, or comprehend what he is imparting, in the deeper of meanings.

 

[Burnt State]

Talking rabbit.., Hmmm… sounds like something perhaps experienced on LSD, in which brings a thought to mind. This thought includes the consumption of entheogens and group hallucinations in which members of a tribe, or group would experience the same hallucination together. I spoke briefly with an educator who told me that he along with some others of a group shared in a collective hallucination while under the influence of entheogens. This brings me back to the Ariel School encounter as there are entheogens that have been known to go airborne. Would it be at all possible that these children unknowingly shared in a collective experience while under the influence of entheogens that they somehow ingested?

If so, what may have been the mechanism that caused them to specifically witness beings, along with a craft?

I also favour the role of the madness of crowds & how fear can be contagious, even after only one person says they saw an alien in the field. Either way the Ariel & Westall kids are very convincing, as are the narratives of the Kelly-Hopkinsville event. A consistent idea and set of experiences were documented in each of these cases. But no one's ever explored the possible role of airborne spores that might have set off such an experience. As you pointed out, collective experiences require a leader, or shaman to help direct the vision. Ergotism is another way collective hallucinations may unfold, but unlikely in all three cases; though has anyone ever looked at what they all had for lunch that day? Sandwiches on bad rye bread could be responsible.

Still, it's the consistency of drawings and stories that create strong interest for me in each of the cases. What weakens them though is the lack of secondary evidence i.e. other witnesses seeing aerial objects arrive and leave, radar recordings or physical trace evidence. Outside of the many shotgun blasts damaging the home of the K-H event there's not much else to go on.

The lack of strong secondary evidence makes the likelihood of a collective experience such as a group hallucination all the more likely. Still, these compelling narratives, with parallels involving children, are deserving of consideration and evaluation of this distinct subset of the UFO phenomenon.

 

[SRL+]

Is it at all possible that in all of my lunacy to even suggest that there may have been a child in the group who possessed an extraordinary imagination in which the others attached to?

Or perhaps, one child remarked about a spaceship with aliens, and took hold in the others imagination.

 

[DissectionStalker]

Outside of the many shotgun blasts damaging the home of the K-H event there's not much else to go on.

I read online that only one or two .22 bullet holes in the house were logged in the Police report.

Children are fed Fantasy Stories all throughout childhood. Probably every one of us has experienced at least one waking hallucination as a child. I know I did. In fact, I saw a real Rocket Launch upon waking to the rocket noise on the outdoor deck in the middle of the night, I loved to sleep outside to see the shooting stars and satellites, and it was real in my mind's eye and "out there" too! Did anyone else see it? I seriously doubt it.

Children's brains are still under development and are fed so many fantasy tales [and Cartoons & Sesame Streets & Video Games]. I can NOT seriously consider children's accounts to be more than imagination and inexperienced, naive, undeveloped brains/minds unable to truly distinguish reality from belief and "playing fantasy" and "make believe".

The world is all a stage for children to play in the Human fantasies given to them. Children do experience invisible friends and fantasy encounters playing together too! I spent many hours every day playing "war games" [and other games] with my friends, and the enemy was real enough for us to do that for hours at a time. I'm sure we had a shared vision that we could tell the adults that would be very convincing too.

 

[DissectionStalker]

One thing that is certain is that anyone who thinks that they can simply go out and find any type of meaningful truth after consuming entheogens is seriously mistaken.

This does not invalidate those that do it in a safe setting with proper preparation and dosage. Multiple tribal Shamanistic practices from around the world find more meaning from those plant/spore experiences than what we know in real life. It's not our place to judge these people inferior or invalidate their world view and spiritual practices. We can learn deep truths from these people, and the plants provide access to an "experience" of super-intelligence(s). Yes, Dennis McKenna says the plants/spores tell us we're just a bunch of monkeys that are deluded thinking we run the show! I agree.

Vallee doesn’t hold back on his thoughts, it's just that there are those who are unable to fully appreciate, or comprehend what he is imparting, in the deeper of meanings.

Ha! Vallee says you have to read his FICTION and "read between the lines" to understand what he really thinks. He is NOT being blunt or straight forward ITRW naming names about the Military/3 Letter PSYOPS and these "control systems", but I'm forgiving and understanding of WHY Vallee does this and read the fiction too! We can read "between the lines" too. Wink.

 

[SRL+]

I also favour the role of the madness of crowds & how fear can be contagious, even after only one person says they saw an alien in the field. Either way the Ariel & Westall kids are very convincing, as are the narratives of the Kelly-Hopkinsville event. A consistent idea and set of experiences were documented in each of these cases. But no one's ever explored the possible role of airborne spores that might have set off such an experience. As you pointed out, collective experiences require a leader, or shaman to help direct the vision. Ergotism is another way collective hallucinations may unfold, but unlikely in all three cases; though has anyone ever looked at what they all had for lunch that day? Sandwiches on bad rye bread could be responsible.

Still, it's the consistency of drawings and stories that create strong interest for me in each of the cases. What weakens them though is the lack of secondary evidence i.e. other witnesses seeing arial objects arrive and leave, radar recordings or physical trace evidence. Outside of the many shotgun blasts damaging the home of the K-H event there's not much else to go on.

The lack of strong secondary evidence makes the likelihood of a collective experience such as a group hallucination all the more likely. Still, these compelling narratives, with parallels involving children, are deserving of consideration and evaluation of this distinct subset of the UFO phenomenon.

There seems to be a psychological type of reflex, such as when an infant cries in the presence of another infant and for no apparent reason that infant cries as well. Or when an adult laughs after hearing good news or something humorous, and another adult near starts to laugh, as just for hearing the laughter, without knowing what was of good news or of humor. There’s also the feeding frenzy of a mob on the attack, which is notorious in political demonstrations, and in times of racial tension. Collectively, these children either perceived or experienced something that was either physical, or psychological in nature that existed to them in their consensuses reality as tangible.

 

[Burnt State]

If that was an allusion to Hermann Hesse and Steppenwolf, then kudos to you, sir!

But yes, absolutely. And why? Is it because these experiences are temporal, inter-group, subjective hallucinations or does the phenomena simply like to fuck with people, trickster style? Or is there another reason?

between the ages of 16-24 I finished off all of Hesse's works. the bizarre nature of the magic theatre left a large impression on me that did not repeat again until reading Fowle's The Magus. in both books, like the UFO event, there is the sense of an audience specific performance taking place. now if a UFO flies past a forest and no one is there to see it, maybe it's still there, but during contactee reports where there is some prolonged interaction with the witness, there seems to be the need of an audience for the manifestation to be complete.

artistically there are invisible formations that writers, painters, playwrights etc. seem to tap into, recording the unseen, yet significant actions for the benefit of a patient reader of the work. the UFO as performance seems to want to prod us into making a response to the inexplicable magic scene on display in the sky.

after all, the audience is sought out in the middle of the desert, the forest, on the empty stretch of highway, or while surrounded on the highway, the witness seems to enter into the land of Oz, as if the world was suddenly put on pause, so that only the selected audience gets to witness the event. traditionally, such selective performances are put on to teach us something, or challenge us into thinking a new way.

However, when i look up to the stars at night to watch planets twinkle, and i am greeted with the rare speactle of shooting stars scratch out their line, iridium satellites burning out a path or a falling burning ball of space trash flame its way back to earth, i don't ask myself if this is happening just for me. the brief image is accepted as natural and normal. if i did not know what these things were it might be very different, and i would be compelled to record them as anomalous, special events, and make them into more than what they are, beautiful but common.

motives have always been very difficult to define when it comes to the UFO phenomenon but the effects on the audience are often profound. perhaps, curious creatures that we are, the unknown event is just something we can't help but magnify even though it might be more mundane & common than actually something really rare. regardless, what we do have to work with are not the bits and tatters of evidence, but the stories and their effects on the witness, and how the spread of such narratives alter social landscapes in an even larger manner.

 

[E. L. Wisty]

I think the problem here is that once you start mixing subjective mental states and objective reality, literally anything goes. I used to know a guy who dropped too much acid in the sixties and triggered his latent schizophrenia. He thought that all his problems in life were caused by the fact that he was under constant attack from the astral plane by the evil time-traveling magicians who secretly ran Paisley Dental College. Why he thought this I have no idea. I didn't like to ask, because if he'd decided to explain it to me in detail, I'd probably have been there all week. But he really, truly believed it.

I also knew a pathetically ill person who survived mainly because he hung out with extreme UFO and fringe Fortean types who actually agreed that his paranoid delusions might literally be true. These included - and I'm not making this up - the belief that those little blobs on the sidewalk that most people think are chewing-gum are really extraterrestrial brain-tissue put there as part of a global network of psychic land-mines aimed at him personally because he knew all the secrets of the Greys. Though later he decided that it was no longer necessary to take care not to tread on chewing-gum because, having recently converted to Catholicism (by way of Spiritualism and Theosophy), he was now surrounded at all times by a personal bodyguard of angels to fight off the Greys.

OK, those are extreme cases. But where do you draw the line? As a very young child (about 3-4 years old), I was absolutely terrified of those spherical vacuum cleaners, though not the regular kind. Why? Because I had horribly vivid nightmares that they were actually monsters called Globe Beans, who, when no-one was looking, would reveal their true nature. The hose would turn into a human arm about 10 feet long but completely boneless apart from the hand (for some reason wearing a stocking with a glove on the end), and the upper part of the machine would become transparent to reveal the contents - the partially digested remains of the people it had eaten, which looked like sick.

If children are amazingly intuitive and know the true nature of reality better than adults, then God help us! Unless of course I was over-imaginative, and this state of affairs wasn't, and hopefully still isn't, literally true. I also went through a phase of having an imaginary friend with whom I would conduct two-way conversations in an irritating squeaky voice. Oddly, my father never went mad and chased me through a luxury hotel with an axe. By the way, my imaginary friend was a sentient potato called, rather unimaginatively, Potato.

I also have considerable experience with LSD, though not recently. Like having conversations with invisible talking potatoes, it's a phase you go through when you're young and stupid. I've seen all manner of things, ranging from the approximately mythical to the utterly daft, but I don't think any of them were somehow more real than reality.

I do, however, know that the circumstances under which you trip strongly affect the nature of the visions. I'm fully prepared to accept that if a bunch of Amazonian natives - and indeed anyone who makes the journey to the middle of the Brazilian rain-forest just for this purpose - who truly believe that a certain hallucinogenic drug gives them a direct link to Jaguar Woman (or whatever their deity happens to be called) take this stuff, they will very likely see and talk to Jaguar Woman. But I don't think this has a great deal to do with whether or not Jaguar Woman exists in any sense whatsoever, any more than Potato or the Globe Beans.

I remember an occasion when I was under the influence of LSD, but not completely out of it, and my buddies, who were merely stoned, decided that we should all go for a walk in the middle of the city at a time when it was quite busy. Belatedly remembering to ask me if I'd thought to empty my pockets of small quantities of several illegal substances, and finding that, oddly enough, it hadn't occurred to me to do so, I was told to "watch out for the pigs". And instantly, every single one of the hundreds of people in the street were wearing police uniforms, including children and dogs. You know those pedestrian crossings we have in the UK where instead of "WALK/DON'T WALK", there's a silhouette of a green walking man or a red standing-still man? Even those guys were wearing police uniforms! I honestly thought this meant that everybody in the world was suddenly a cop except us, but I decided that, under the circumstances, I probably shouldn't tell my buddies in case it ruined their day.

So I have extremely practical reasons to doubt the reality of drug-induced hallucinations. Hey, one of my friends persuaded some old hippies in California to risk sending him an air-mail envelope containing 1,500 doses of blotter acid - I do know what I'm talking about!

 

[Burnt State]

What's interesting to note, in that thoughtful acidic narrative, is how alien abduction reports, contactee moments with direct sightings & interactions with "aliens" and nightmares, dreams & night terrors all parallel the lysergic break with reality. The intensity of these moments, be they drug, dream or otherwise brain induced hallucinations, stay with the experiencer for all their life. When reality breaks it leaves an indent on the user/perceiver that can not be smoothed out. I sympathize greatly with those people who believe that aliens are abducting and/or plotting against them. That schizophrenic space is not an easy one to live through.

 

[Constance]

. . . If children are amazingly intuitive and know the true nature of reality better than adults, then God help us! Unless of course I was over-imaginative, and this state of affairs wasn't, and hopefully still isn't, literally true. I also went through a phase of having an imaginary friend with whom I would conduct two-way conversations in an irritating squeaky voice. Oddly, my father never went mad and chased me through a luxury hotel with an axe. By the way, my imaginary friend was a sentient potato called, rather unimaginatively, Potato.

I also have considerable experience with LSD, though not recently. Like having conversations with invisible talking potatoes, it's a phase you go through when you're young and stupid. I've seen all manner of things, ranging from the approximately mythical to the utterly daft, but I don't think any of them were somehow more real than reality.

I do, however, know that the circumstances under which you trip strongly affect the nature of the visions. I'm fully prepared to accept that if a bunch of Amazonian natives - and indeed anyone who makes the journey to the middle of the Brazilian rain-forest just for this purpose - who truly believe that a certain hallucinogenic drug gives them a direct link to Jaguar Woman (or whatever their deity happens to be called) take this stuff, they will very likely see and talk to Jaguar Woman. But I don't think this has a great deal to do with whether or not Jaguar Woman exists in any sense whatsoever, any more than Potato or the Globe Beans.


. . . So I have extremely practical reasons to doubt the reality of drug-induced hallucinations. Hey, one of my friends persuaded some old hippies in California to risk sending him an air-mail envelope containing 1,500 doses of blotter acid - I do know what I'm talking about!

Thank you for the manifest good sense.

 

[Wade]

Sweet Post

 

[SRL+]

I think the problem here is that once you start mixing subjective mental states and objective reality, literally anything goes. I used to know a guy who dropped too much acid in the sixties and triggered his latent schizophrenia. He thought that all his problems in life were caused by the fact that he was under constant attack from the astral plane by the evil time-traveling magicians who secretly ran Paisley Dental College. Why he thought this I have no idea. I didn't like to ask, because if he'd decided to explain it to me in detail, I'd probably have been there all week. But he really, truly believed it.

I also knew a pathetically ill person who survived mainly because he hung out with extreme UFO and fringe Fortean types who actually agreed that his paranoid delusions might literally be true. These included - and I'm not making this up - the belief that those little blobs on the sidewalk that most people think are chewing-gum are really extraterrestrial brain-tissue put there as part of a global network of psychic land-mines aimed at him personally because he knew all the secrets of the Greys. Though later he decided that it was no longer necessary to take care not to tread on chewing-gum because, having recently converted to Catholicism (by way of Spiritualism and Theosophy), he was now surrounded at all times by a personal bodyguard of angels to fight off the Greys.

OK, those are extreme cases. But where do you draw the line? As a very young child (about 3-4 years old), I was absolutely terrified of those spherical vacuum cleaners, though not the regular kind. Why? Because I had horribly vivid nightmares that they were actually monsters called Globe Beans, who, when no-one was looking, would reveal their true nature. The hose would turn into a human arm about 10 feet long but completely boneless apart from the hand (for some reason wearing a stocking with a glove on the end), and the upper part of the machine would become transparent to reveal the contents - the partially digested remains of the people it had eaten, which looked like sick.

If children are amazingly intuitive and know the true nature of reality better than adults, then God help us! Unless of course I was over-imaginative, and this state of affairs wasn't, and hopefully still isn't, literally true. I also went through a phase of having an imaginary friend with whom I would conduct two-way conversations in an irritating squeaky voice. Oddly, my father never went mad and chased me through a luxury hotel with an axe. By the way, my imaginary friend was a sentient potato called, rather unimaginatively, Potato.

I also have considerable experience with LSD, though not recently. Like having conversations with invisible talking potatoes, it's a phase you go through when you're young and stupid. I've seen all manner of things, ranging from the approximately mythical to the utterly daft, but I don't think any of them were somehow more real than reality.

I do, however, know that the circumstances under which you trip strongly affect the nature of the visions. I'm fully prepared to accept that if a bunch of Amazonian natives - and indeed anyone who makes the journey to the middle of the Brazilian rain-forest just for this purpose - who truly believe that a certain hallucinogenic drug gives them a direct link to Jaguar Woman (or whatever their deity happens to be called) take this stuff, they will very likely see and talk to Jaguar Woman. But I don't think this has a great deal to do with whether or not Jaguar Woman exists in any sense whatsoever, any more than Potato or the Globe Beans.

I remember an occasion when I was under the influence of LSD, but not completely out of it, and my buddies, who were merely stoned, decided that we should all go for a walk in the middle of the city at a time when it was quite busy. Belatedly remembering to ask me if I'd thought to empty my pockets of small quantities of several illegal substances, and finding that, oddly enough, it hadn't occurred to me to do so, I was told to "watch out for the pigs". And instantly, every single one of the hundreds of people in the street were wearing police uniforms, including children and dogs. You know those pedestrian crossings we have in the UK where instead of "WALK/DON'T WALK", there's a silhouette of a green walking man or a red standing-still man? Even those guys were wearing police uniforms! I honestly thought this meant that everybody in the world was suddenly a cop except us, but I decided that, under the circumstances, I probably shouldn't tell my buddies in case it ruined their day.

So I have extremely practical reasons to doubt the reality of drug-induced hallucinations. Hey, one of my friends persuaded some old hippies in California to risk sending him an air-mail envelope containing 1,500 doses of blotter acid - I do know what I'm talking about!

In homage to your post…..

 

[Constance]

What's interesting to note, in that thoughtful acidic narrative, is how alien abduction reports, contactee moments with direct sightings & interactions with "aliens" and nightmares, dreams & night terrors all parallel the lysergic break with reality.

The similarities should not lead us to obscure the differences. For example, most people who have reported encounters with landed craft and their strange crews have not been on LSD or other mind-altering substances. They are ordinary people from all walks of life who are surprised, indeed shocked, by these encounters. Also significantly, they usually report telepathic communication (mind to mind information transfer) from the beings encountered to themselves, including the children in Zimbabwe. Re childhood fantasies, as Ian Stephenson and others have demonstrated, numerous cases exist of extensive veridical evidence of the validity of young children's past life memories. Veridical evidence is the key to distinguishing fantasy from reality in a variety of paranormal phenomena. You yourself, Burnt, have observed the lack of 'secondary evidence' to support many bizarre experiences of people encountering 'others' under the influence of DMT, ayahuasca, etc. By contrast, there is indeed 'secondary evidence' of veridicality demonstrated in a range of psi, psychic, and ufo experiences, including remote viewing, but I would call it the primary evidence of the reality encountered in those experiences.

 

[Burnt State]

The similarities should not lead us to obscure the differences. For example, most people who have reported encounters with landed craft and their strange crews have not been on LSD or other mind-altering substances. They are ordinary people from all walks of life who are surprised, indeed shocked, by these encounters. Also significantly, they usually report telepathic communication (mind to mind information transfer) from the beings encountered to themselves, including the children in Zimbabwe. Re childhood fantasies, as Ian Stephenson and others have demonstrated, numerous cases exist of extensive veridical evidence of the validity of young children's past life memories. Veridical evidence is the key to distinguishing fantasy from reality in a variety of paranormal phenomena. You yourself, Burnt, have observed the lack of 'secondary evidence' to support many bizarre experiences of people encountering 'others' under the influence of DMT, ayahuasca, etc. By contrast, there is indeed 'secondary evidence' of veridicality demonstrated in a range of psi, psychic, and ufo experiences, including remote viewing, but I would call it the primary evidence of the reality encountered in those experiences.

No, they were certainly all not on acid but the experience is similar enough to suggest that when there is no confirming secondary evidence i.e. trace, radar, secondary witnesses then we can still consider other possibilities such as altered mental states at work: micro sleeps, waking nightmares, delusions, mass hallucinations or fear induced episodes related to other psychological or unknown external, possibly mundane, stimuli.

The notions that there is accompanying psi experiences seems to me to be a rather subjective event that is very difficult to assess. Many people hear all kinds of voices in their head during moments of intensity, and there's no way to tell if these originate internally or externally. Certainly the messages that might come in times of stress may reference previous personal truths in the same way that when we dream our brain has an entire lifetime of memories to choose from for playback purposes.

Still, I remain quite intrigued by the statements made by those alien witness students across various points in their lifetime.

 

[Constance]

No, they were certainly all not on acid but the experience is similar enough to suggest that when there is no confirming secondary evidence i.e. trace, radar, secondary witnesses then we can still consider other possibilities such as altered mental states at work: micro sleeps, waking nightmares, delusions, mass hallucinations or fear induced episodes related to other psychological or unknown external, possibly mundane, stimuli.

Sure, we can "consider other possibilities," but I question theory building such as Vallee's and yours on the basis of 'possibilities' of such rarified nature when the ufo literature is filled with the coherence of ufo observations with physical trace evidence, radar recordings, and multiple witnesses in numberless cases.

The notions that there is accompanying psi experiences seems to me to be a rather subjective event that is very difficult to assess. Many people hear all kinds of voices in their head during moments of intensity, and there's no way to tell if these originate internally or externally. Certainly the messages that might come in times of stress may reference previous personal truths in the same way that when we dream our brain has an entire lifetime of memories to choose from for playback purposes.

In numerous close encounters, in the US and other countries, 'voices' have not been heard in the encounters with beings exiting landed ufos; rather, significative information has been transferred telepathically, silently, directly to the mind of the recipient. And the most important thing about these communications has been their consistency -- warnings about our species' destruction of our planet's ecosystem. We heard it from these 'others' long before we began to recognize it ourselves. Also very interesting is the information, in a recent post here, that one or more of the Zimbabwe children understood a warning about the future of technology on this planet. For the last 60 years we've been receiving the same message in the continuing appearances of ufos at the sites of nuclear bomb tests, over nuclear research installations, nuclear power plants, nuclear arms bases, and SAC missiles, here and in Russia and elsewhere. (Not to mention, though I will, at Roswell, the only fully armed nuclear weapons base on the planet in July 1947.) The anti-nuclear technology message was escalated in its gravity by the repeated disablement of SAC missiles here and in Russia and still continuing. (see Robert Hastings book UFOs and Nukes). These are specific and unambiguous communications, a long way from the mechanical elves who welcome the DMT experimenters.

 

[Soupie]

The pentacle document, as well as many other sources, indicates that the PTB are aware of and have investigated UAP.

While there's no smoking gun evidence (available to the public), there is enough to indicate the phenomena is physical.

Interaction with UAP (and UHI for that matter) have been noted since the dawn of human history. Reports of UAP sightings seem to have spiked since the mid 1940s (not sure about that).

The current scientific consensus is that the universe is almost certainly populated with a variety of life, including intelligent life.

Mathematicians have determined that craft from distant solar systems could have visited Earth multiple times throughout the history of the universe traveling at only sub-light speeds.

Mathematicians Say It's Probable That Alien Probes Have Reached Earth - The Epoch Times

University of Edinburgh professors Arwen Nicholson and Duncan Forgana have pondered such questions and formulated some related theories.

They published an article in the International Journal of Astrobiology last year explaining techniques that could dramatically cut down the time needed to send probes far and wide. They also said it is not only possible that aliens could reach our solar system with such probes, but they may have even done so a very long time ago. And this may be ongoing, with several different alien cultures sending probes at the same time.

Furthermore, the probes could be so advanced we would not even be able to detect them. Just because we haven’t seen the probes, said the mathematicians, doesn’t mean they haven’t arrived.

The last line is a bit of a head scratcher considering the 701 unsolved UAP cases and many more.

But consider that these probes and/or craft would likely be designed to elude both biological and electronic detection, or at least keep detection to a minimum.

All things considered, there's more than enough reason to take the ETH seriously.

We don't know why ETs would want to visit/monitor Earth nor why they might do so in such a subtle* manner. (As Constance noted, if we take what many bewildered contactees have consistently reported at face value and data such as that gathered by Hastings, the motive and subtlety may be to preserve and nurture the Earth and the human species.)

However, we can't let such (currently unanswered) questions get in the way of the fact that the ETH is supported by multiple lines of reasoning.

*Part of the subtlety may involve the mental manipulation and mimicry.

 

[DissectionStalker]

For the last 60 years we've been receiving the same message in the continuing appearances of ufos at the sites of nuclear bomb tests, over nuclear research installations, nuclear power plants, nuclear arms bases, and SAC missiles, here and in Russia and elsewhere. (Not to mention, though I will, at Roswell, the only fully armed nuclear weapons base on the planet in July 1947.) The anti-nuclear technology message was escalated in its gravity by the repeated disablement of SAC missiles here and in Russia and still continuing. (see Robert Hastings book UFOs and Nukes).

These are, at least, just as likely more Pentacle related Black Op PSYOPS to test readiness and security procedures and protocol verification to see how military personnel react and report incidents. It's fits perfectly with my idea of what the military should actually do too!

My idea is not outlandish at all. In fact, Vallee has revealed in the C2C July 2014 interview (the recent thread I started) that he got insider knowledge from a Black Ops Military insider, now retired, but Vallee knows, works with, and trusts this person stating this is exactly what this Top Secret covert "security probe" group did. Probe the nuclear sights mimicking UFO's to test nuclear security measures and potential weaknesses. And yes, simulating nuclear missile shutdowns would be standard procedure too! (This must be what the Russians did too, though I don't know how well documented or believable those reports are anyway.)

This is exactly what happened, imo, and I think that cat is out of the bag now. This top secret covert security protocol is now exposed, so it won't be so "freaky" for the missile silo people anymore!

 

[Burnt State]

Soupie, I agree with the mathematicians who believe that the probes being sent here from an advanced species (Type II or Type III) would most likely be invisible to us and undetectable. That stands in stark contrast to witness reports of the plethora of different craft and wide variety of humanoids. What's even more bizarre is why they would mimic our own anthropocentric ways of collecting soil samples, bagging & tagging humans and spreading space brother new age telepathic messages of love & environmental consciousness. How can so much diversity in the reporting of a myriad of races visiting (Friedman's densely populated cosmic neighbourhood theory) produce such consistent activities and messages?

It's all starting to sound like the Star Trek Galactic Fedeation is in full swing all around us where all the aliens play by the same rules, have the same messages and repeat the same rather clunky and antiquated approaches to biological investigation of us, the less than Type I Civ. with nuclear power. These things just don't add up. In fact the consistency in their cat & mouse activities in the sky, their messages and their science, which doesn't look like magic at all, makes a stronger case for all of this stemming from a singular source as opposed to earth being this great alien race tourist destination where they all play by the same rules. In fact it makes a stronger case for most of it originating from our own imaginations in response to either mundane stimuli, human technology or some other external, tricksterish entity that likes to mess with us for their own reasons.

But for certain, when you do read the variety of contactees, their often ludicrous narratives, and obvious personal inventions, you know you can safely rule almost all of it out of the equation of trying to understand this phenomenon. We also know humans are purposely manipulating and manufacturing aspects of the UFO phenomenon for their own agendas. For me the UFO questions are why are their activities so overt, ephemeral and consistent despite their apparent variation in origin? Why is their approach to biology so human and not reflective of an advanced space faring species, never mind the fact that any advanced civilization could detect all they want to invisibly without revealing any aspect of their existence? There's something so fishy about all of this that it makes the ETH smell pretty bad, or at least less likely than the phenomena originating from right here on earth.

Btw this is not an absolutist theory of mine as there are obviously some cases that do appear to provide evidence of the ETH but in looking at the totality of the phenomenon there are some characteristics that just don't make sense as having an off planet origin.