October 10th, Anthony Sanchez

[trainedobserver]

Ray Palmer and the Shaver mysteries.

Yeah, that was a "spit your gum out" moment wasn't it? I heard Gene's jaw hit the table ...twice.

Thanks for posting and what a great avatar! Lobster Johnson. Very cool indeed.

 

[Kieran]

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---------- Post added at 08:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:17 AM ----------



I'm not saying that and I'm not saying the phenomena does not exist. I'm saying what we are being led to believe about it is false. The information isn't coming from the phenomena its coming from people. People using the phenomena and the interest in it and the organizations formed to study it for their own purposes. The purpose of military/governmental involvement is to mask the development of weaponizable technologies. Some of these technologies may be related to the phenomena itself in some manner, most likely indirectly. In short, Ufology is a mind-f#$% laboratory for military intelligence. While real UFO phenomena undoubtedly exists what "Ufology" thinks it "knows" about aliens, ufo propulsion, their origins, and so forth is most likely a complete fabrication or so much so it needs to be dismissed as noise and a misdirection.

I have had that believe for a long time, try getting that across to believers and you run into a brick wall. I have no problem with anything you have said, actually it makes lot of sense. I'm of the believe only 5 to 10 percent of sightings and UFO stories are genuine, that is there craft that might actually belong to another race other than us. So what about that other 90 per cent, that other percentage is what keeps the UFO phenomenon ticking over, that bad 90 per cent gets lot of publicity from ufologists (people who write UFO books) but that percentage may well be keeping us in the dark from finding out maybe who is behind the UFO phenomenon. It depends on once's point of view really.

 

[trainedobserver]

I have had that believe for a long time,

I have thought this to one degree or another over time but its only dawned me recently how extensive the manipulation and seeding must be. I do think that the Bennewitz affair is a vital clue and provides a microcosmic view of the relationship between the UFO community and military intelligence as a whole. I think the Crop Circle makers and the research community springing up around their work are also indicative of the relationship between the UFO community and its freelance "content providers" within its ranks.

 

[paraschtick]

Very odd stuff. I'm just entering the last hour of the programme and his story is not holding up already. And not hearing about Richard Shaver. Wow ... how can you NOT hear about Richard Shaver. And for the record, I just typed in "underground aliens" into Google, and the Dulce entry in Wikipedia popped up. On the page there it mentions the "Shaver Mystery" ... so that was after 2 minutes maximum of looking on the internet, and this guy didn't fall over Shaver after 9 months or whatever. Woah ...

Anyway, I do wish him well (maybe after all his website is back up now). He seemed like a nice guy, just probably a bit gullible, rambling and unfocussed.

And his company by the way is here: http://www.matrixinnovative.com/ ... if you're interested in looking at a single web page.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

Do we think....or could it be that he's being led on of this military informant's supposedly real?

 

[Kandinsky]

I have thought this to one degree or another over time but its only dawned me recently how extensive the manipulation and seeding must be. I do think that the Bennewitz affair is a vital clue and provides a microcosmic view of the relationship between the UFO community and military intelligence as a whole. I think the Crop Circle makers and the research community springing up around their work are also indicative of the relationship between the UFO community and its freelance "content providers" within its ranks.

How about Team Exo? I mean, jeez, there must be at least one guy in that crowd who's pulling the strings or manipulating their ideas. It's hard to separate the hoaxers and fraudsters from the potential agents of BS, but they surely can't come up with all that stuff sincerely?!

Seeing as politics, national security and foreign policy is an issue, it's possible that ufology is part of the campus for deception training. Sure, there are handbooks and studies, but if fomenting dissent has strategic importance (Nicaragua, Korea, Mexico etc), the best guys need to practice somewhere. Ufology is such a small pool, maybe a disinfo agent can toss rocks in and see immediately how far the ripples travel.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Seeing as politics, national security and foreign policy is an issue, it's possible that ufology is part of the campus for deception training...if fomenting dissent has strategic importance... the best guys need to practice somewhere. Ufology is such a small pool, maybe a disinfo agent can toss rocks in and see immediately how far the ripples travel.

Really? You think? There are quite a number of near-perfect cultural petrie dishes that are being exploited, I suspect...hell, I've been saying this about the San Luis Valley (and other "portal areas?") for years... :0

 

[trainedobserver]

Listening to this thing the second time it occurs to me that the AFOSI or whoever needs to get a better caliber of science fiction writers. The idea that a "dying race" now down to about 1000 has maintained an infrastructure that supports the level of technology that they allegedly possess is absolutely 1950's era comic book material. IMHO.

 

[ward]

HUH? what's going on here.

ufohighway.com is up with no word of him leaving this field. and now its says the book is available in ebook form.

http://www.ufohighway.com/bookstore.aspx

Did i miss something? that was one wacky interview


N/M i just read an update from Norio Hayakawa

http://noriohayakawa2012.blogspot.com/

 

[paraschtick]

Oh and did anyone else notice that the technology in the cave those guys found in 1940 was very ... 2010. Lots of flat screens and things??? Not really that hi-tech(???) ... although its of course difficult to say how advanced an alien or underground race like that would be ... or whatever. But it did strike me as very late 20th/early 21st century. Or did we get all our tech from the cave and not from Roswell???

 

[MikeSee]

I didn't find the episode very interesting. The story about the alien/human base at Archuleta Mesa has been around for quite awhile. The names of the aliens have been changed and we now have an unknown Colonel X as new permutations to the story, but nothing else that changes the underlying tale. There's nothing verifiable. The story remains just a story. That said, I would be interested to hear more from anyone who has poked around up there. Chris, do you plan to hike the mesa anytime soon?

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

I didn't find the episode very interesting. The story about the alien/human base at Archuleta Mesa has been around for quite awhile. The names of the aliens have been changed and we now have an unknown Colonel X as new permutations to the story, but nothing else that changes the underlying tale. There's nothing verifiable. The story remains just a story. That said, I would be interested to hear more from anyone who has poked around up there. Chris, do you plan to hike the mesa anytime soon?

I keep a skeptical openmind for now and read the book first. I wish him all the best with regards his personnal life.

 

[Kieran]

Very odd stuff. I'm just entering the last hour of the programme and his story is not holding up already. And not hearing about Richard Shaver. Wow ... how can you NOT hear about Richard Shaver. And for the record, I just typed in "underground aliens" into Google, and the Dulce entry in Wikipedia popped up. On the page there it mentions the "Shaver Mystery" ... so that was after 2 minutes maximum of looking on the internet, and this guy didn't fall over Shaver after 9 months or whatever. Woah ...

Anyway, I do wish him well (maybe after all his website is back up now). He seemed like a nice guy, just probably a bit gullible, rambling and unfocussed.

And his company by the way is here: http://www.matrixinnovative.com/ ... if you're interested in looking at a single web page.

I never heard of Richard Shaver until I heard Gene mention him on another Paracast broadcast, but i have only been researching the paranormal, on the internet for the last four years, even though I have experiences going back to my youth . What was odd, is Mr Sanchez claimed to have twenty years experience involved in the field of UFO study, but in all that time he never came across Shaver. His research skills or lack of more like or being shown up.

 

[NTS]

Re technology, one tip-off that the old UFO contactees were either frauds and/or the victims of disinformation (by who?) is that the technology they describe looks like their time's notion of what advanced technology would look like. Not like technology as it actually developed in even 60 years, much less 1000 or 1,000,000. Any truly advanced technology isn't going to look anything like we think it will. In fact we might not even recognize it as technology at all.

 

[paraschtick]

I never heard of Richard Shaver until I heard Gene mention him on another Paracast broadcast, but i have only been researching the paranormal, on the internet for the last four years, even though I have experiences going back to my youth . What was odd, is Mr Sanchez claimed to have twenty years experience involved in the field of UFO study, but in all that time he never came across Shaver. His research skills or lack of more like or being shown up.

I talked to someone in the last 24hrs who hadn't heard of Shaver either. I'm not totally conversant with the ins-and-outs of the whole Shaver mystery but I am aware that it is a vital pat of early ufological history/mythology ... as is Ray Palmer who worked with Richard Shaver. Maybe people are not that aware of earlier UFO personalities like Shaver and Palmer, I don't know. But I find its relatively easy to come across their names on the net whilst looking for information on underground bases, races etc... Maybe I just notice these things easier ... I don't know .

But someone has been researching UFOs for 20 years should have come across these two icons of early "UFO history". I find it really hard to believe to tell you the truth. So is Sanchez just a gullible guy or lazy researcher?? I don't know. Yet another ufo thing to ponder about

 

[Walter Bosley]

Some of you guys give AFOSI way too much power in all of this. I've said before, and I base it on personal experience, that there is one section of the organization that might have anything to do with a regular interest in UFO topics and they are very sequestered from standard AFOSI ops. Their mission is technology protection, keeping as solid as possible the integrity of the security of platforms (Yes, Mr Sandford, the word 'platform' IS used, whether you've heard it or not...). That's not to say AFOSI agents in any other specialty would never ever deal with the issue, but the reality is 90% of AFOSI agents spend their time dealing with an airman caught having pot in his pee or some senior NCO who, like a genius, decided to shoplift from the BX two weeks before retirement. In that remaining 10% you had guys like me, and Doty if I'm not mistaken did what I did for a while, who worked counterespionage ops; guys who specialize in protective service on VIPs and the aforementioned section of dedicated special program protection. I would like to add also that since around 1996, every AFOSI agent has spent some considerable time doing counter-terrorism work, especially since 9/11. Since then, 7 AFOSI Special Agents have been killed in that mission, by the way. I suspect these men were not involved nor interested in duping anyone who wants to know the 'truth' about ET, but maybe I'm wrong.

I haven't read Sanchez' work yet, but if all there is are the topics I've seen discussed here, then I could see why it's disappointing and somewhat curious, if presented as fresh. Then again, I irritate the f!@# out of some people, too, so I'm not about to join the pile-up.

 

[trainedobserver]

I've said before, and I base it on personal experience, that there is one section of the organization that might have anything to do with a regular interest in UFO topics and they are very sequestered from standard AFOSI ops.

I think that sounds reasonable. It is remarkable though that Nick Redfern would ring someone up and on the first try get someone that connects him with the C.E. and the 'information' that followed. AFOSI as an organization, no matter what group within that organization may be responsible, is implicated in the Bennewitz affair. They are involved in the release of the information contained within Final Events or you assume Nick Redfern is lying about how that actually came about, which I do not.

... but the reality is 90% of AFOSI agents spend their time dealing with an airman caught having pot in his pee or some senior NCO who, like a genius, decided to shoplift from the BX two weeks before retirement.

Ex-AirForce personnel I have spoken to tell me the same thing. Most contact people have with AFOSI seem to involve such things.

I suspect these men were not involved nor interested in duping anyone who wants to know the 'truth' about ET, but maybe I'm wrong.

I personally don't think that is what is happening at all. It seems obvious that military and national intelligence agencies have been using the UFO phenomena and the UFO community to float stories and sow confusion to mask the development of military and intelligence related technologies. I also think there is evidence to suggest that they have also used the UFO community as a test group for psychological warfare. I think that is what they want us to do, to continue to talk about ET, 'disclosure', and whatever whacked out personality melts down this month rather than reality and things that might pertain to it surrounding these matters.

 

[Walter Bosley]

Even supposing that I suggest Nick is lying is a bit of a leap. I'm acquainted with Nick and he's one of the researchers whom I have a lot of respect for; I was actually aiming the comment at the folks in the community who think certain things about AFOSI

I readily agree with you about USAF/AFOSI having an interest in letting or using UFO lore to provide a little extra coverage for technology. Psych warfare? I can't say that I know for certain either way, though I can say that psych warfare is and has been historically used in theaters of war, so it's not inconceivable. I am just personally unaware of such programs applied to US civilians, more specifically the UFO community, by the USAF or any of its agencies. (I repeat: I'm not personally aware...).

Re: Bennewitz...Yeah...What do we say about that... Because of my past in AFOSI, I hold my position that I'd have to talk with Rick Doty and/or read the file before passing judgment. That is not a cop-out, simply experience with knowing there is usually something about these situations that the case file would illuminate more than any speculation from the outside. You never know, the AFOSI and the USAF may have royally taken pounds out of Doty's ass and feel the same way you do about the situation. The USAF is a conservative organization in that it hates any public attention other than being known for doing a good job, which it generally and devastatingly (to enemies, heh heh heh) does with flying colors.

I know that I am usually lately thrown in with the dark and shadowy ranks of ex-intel types allegedly dispersed through the UFO community to spread BS, or even more dubiously am lumped in with the poor sad and desperate has-beens looking for attention. So you gotta take what I say on the UFO issue with a grain of salt. Doty and I are "carriers" of the "UFO mental illness" one 'researcher' recently said... LOL!

 

[trainedobserver]

Even supposing that I suggest Nick is lying is a bit of a leap. I'm acquainted with Nick and he's one of the researchers whom I have a lot of respect for; I was actually aiming the comment at the folks in the community who think certain things about AFOSI

I didn't mean to imply you thought Redfern was lying. I meant that a person either accepts AFOSIs involvement or they have to assume Nick isn't telling the truth about his contact with them.

The USAF is a conservative organization in that it hates any public attention other than being known for doing a good job,

Don't you find it odd then that they would associate themselves with something like Final Events? It had to be a foregone conclusion that Redfern would include their initial involvement.

know that I am usually lately thrown in with the dark and shadowy ranks of ex-intel types allegedly dispersed through the UFO community to spread BS, or even more dubiously am lumped in with the poor sad and desperate has-beens looking for attention.

Perish the thought!

 

[Walter Bosley]

Yeah, good point...I haven't read but a bit of the sample of Final Events so far, so it is quite interesting if there is an implied acceptance of USAF association by them. I agree...

All I can throw in that MIGHT be associated with whatever the objective of the Collins Elite as operation might be is that once I asked my professional mentor about the Men In Black, specifically the odd fellows who show up in threes, and he told me they were not what I thought. He said they were "prophets". OK, where do I go with that, I wondered. That was 1998. Looking back -- because I had honestly never heard of the 'CE' before Nick's book -- I wonder if what I was told might not have been associated with whatever the agenda of the 'CE' could be.

I would like to point out that my AFOSI specialty was in 'CE' ops -- as in "Counter Espionage"...Could 'Collins Elite' = CE = Counter Espionage? What I've heard Nick say in interviews indicates not, so I assume (short of reading the entire book) that he must have found some compelling evidence that the Collins Elite is just that, the Collins Elite. And I must admit, I love the idea! I mean, isn't it so much more fun to be dealing with a possibility of a battle between demonic entities and interdimensional beings? I think so. One of these days, people on other planets are gonna be as mundane to us as people simply on another continent became once everyone started sailing around the world.