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October 10th, Anthony Sanchez

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AdventureMan said:
And I must admit, I love the idea! I mean, isn't it so much more fun to be dealing with a possibility of a battle between demonic entities and interdimensional beings? I think so.
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Well ...hell no it doesn't. No pun intended. I don't imagine it would be any fun dealing with any sort of freakish nightmare scenario like that. Nor is it anything I'd want my grandchildren having to deal with. I find the very idea that one cent of my tax money was ever spent entertaining such absolute inane horseshit that the C.E. came up with incredibly irritating and disconcerting to say the least. I'm reading The Family right now and fundamentalist religious insanity in high places is pretty evident and scarier than any straw-man alien threat I've seen yet. Pardon me being crude, but why in the hell would the AFOSI float this large turd Nick Redfern's way? To me this is the fundamental question that needs to be asked by the UFO community and the whole "origin" question and "disclosure" noise needs to be tabled. Why is the U.S. government actively involved in promoting "demonic UFO" stories and running unconstitutional psychological warfare operations on people like Bennewitz? I think the answer is something like this: The UFO community and related organizations are stages on which sock-puppets act out carefully crafted plays designed to mold opinion and control the perception of activities involving the development and weaponization of new technologies. I could be wrong of course but that is my tentative conclusion. That to me is frightening enough.
 
Again, I haven't read the whole book, as I said. From my experience in AFOSI, I say there is more to the USAF/AFOSI involvement with Bennewitz than anyone who knows it only from Greg Bishop's excellent book or any source but the case file insists or assumes. That 'more' could be some hidden heinous fact being secreted frm the public, or it could just as easily (and I guess more likely) be not so damning as it seems to some. Remember, look at the individuals as much as the organization. Individuals can sometimes veer off course from what the organization approves of.

How does anyone know with absolute certainty that the demonic story is in no way possible? I'm not talking about what anyone believes nor what they conclude, I'm asking for certainty that the ET question can't be answered in part (if not wholly) by the demonic answer? Just saying "I don't believe demons exist because religion is horseshit" -- as some say, not you -- does not disprove the hypothesis. In fact, in spite of all the books and documentaries and podcasts and blogs and conferences, we still don't have any evidence that proves the ET hypothesis and certainly not more so than any other theory. That burns asses in the community because the ET hypothesis has become the same as a religion for many. :)

I want to read Nick's book before I say too much, but as someone who has considered options other than ET for several years now, the idea of demons or cryptos or fairies or bugaboos doesn't piss me off. It's all fascinating. I happen to believe in the existence of gods and I am a man of faith. I personally don't lose a minute's sleep over the idea of demons. I get up every day and go about my business. None of this changes our daily lives one bit. :)

I'm still very intrigued with the idea in Nick's book. A hell of a lot more interesting than ET. :)
 
AdventureMan said:
Again, I haven't read the whole book, as I said. From my experience in AFOSI, I say there is more to the USAF/AFOSI involvement with Bennewitz than anyone who knows it only from Greg Bishop's excellent book or any source but the case file insists or assumes. That 'more' could be some hidden heinous fact being secreted frm the public, or it could just as easily (and I guess more likely) be not so damning as it seems to some. Remember, look at the individuals as much as the organization. Individuals can sometimes veer off course from what the organization approves of.
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Granted, individuals can exceed their authority. However, I find it a stretch to place the Bennewitz affair squarely on the shoulders of a single individual.

AdventureMan said:
How does anyone know with absolute certainty that the demonic story is in no way possible? I'm not talking about what anyone believes nor what they conclude, I'm asking for certainty that the ET question can't be answered in part (if not wholly) by the demonic answer? Just saying "I don't believe demons exist because religion is horseshit" -- as some say, not you -- does not disprove the hypothesis. In fact, in spite of all the books and documentaries and podcasts and blogs and conferences, we still don't have any evidence that proves the ET hypothesis and certainly not more so than any other theory. That burns asses in the community because the ET hypothesis has become the same as a religion for many. :)
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Anything is possible Walter, however not all things are probable, and of those not all things are plausible. When assessing the risk factor involved in the probability that the Biblical mythos is in fact a true representation of reality I have to tell you Walter, it doesn't look good. Could UFOs be some phenomena that has been interpreted as demons, gods, or spirits by ignorant and superstitious people in the past? I think that the probability of that is much higher. However, I find the whole question about Demons, ETs, and inter-dimensional boogie-men way, way, way, down on the priority list when it comes to what questions we should be asking about the UFO phenomena and the UFO community at large. If you have in your mind that I am somehow a proponent of any given theory or have any emotional investment in one, in particular the ET hypothesis, you are mistaken.

AdventureMan said:
I want to read Nick's book before I say too much, but as someone who has considered options other than ET for several years now, the idea of demons or cryptos or fairies or bugaboos doesn't piss me off.
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I hope you do realize I was saying I was upset that my government was spending tax money on the lame notion, not some anger about the concept itself, which is absurd to the point of comedy.

AdventureMan said:
It's all fascinating. I happen to believe in the existence of gods and I am a man of faith. I personally don't lose a minute's sleep over the idea of demons. I get up every day and go about my business. None of this changes our daily lives one bit. :) I'm still very intrigued with the idea in Nick's book. A hell of a lot more interesting than ET. :)
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Neither do I. Its a fantasy. What does disturb me is fundamentalist religious insanity, gross incompetence and unconstitutional activity in the military and government. Quite frankly Walter I think you're not quite getting the thrust of Nick's book. It isn't about "Demons being UFOs vs. ET" its about a group of religious idiots thinking that it is and formulating outrageous and unconstitutional responses to it.
 
Regarding not hearing about Shaver I should point out, I hadn't heard much about him until I started doing some research on underground bases, but then it was nearly instantaneous! I think the real criticism here is that you can claim serious research without having even heard of him!
 
Trained Observer,

I disagree with some of your assumptions, and they are assumptions. We all have them (myself included), so don't take that as some bashing criticism. :)
My position is simply that some people, maybe not you, will talk about gods and demonic beings like it's the silliest nursery rhyme stuff ever, but ET and some other very similar things are naturally reasonable and just a step away from being proven fact. Could it be that ET is the 'mythos' of our times? Yes, every bit as much as some say 'religious mythos' is the product of ignorance (again, people who speak of god and demons are generally described as ignorant or stupid or naive, yet ET proponents are usually 'enlightened' and entirely reasonable...Not saying you say this, just making a point...) :)

I'll have to read the book. The impression I got was that Nick was merely presenting what he found in his research. I didn't get your take on it (yet...because I haven't read the whole thing). When I heard him interviewed the other night, I must have missed that angle, because I was actually paying more attention to Mad Men's season finale :)

As I said, we can't actually know the whole story on Bennewitz until we read the case file. That ain't gonna happen. I might possibly could learn a little more, were I to ever have a conversation about it with Doty (maybe because I still have sufficient clearance) but, alas, that conversation would remain between he and I. And remember, I may not have the need-to-know, so clearance-shmearance. :)

The government spends money on a lot of things we all disagree on. Personally, I'd rather they spend money on the UFO mystery than some of the stuff they do.

I think I'll ask Nick what he meant and then finish reading the book... :) Done here until then
 
AdventureMan said:
Personally, I'd rather they spend money on the UFO mystery than some of the stuff they do.
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Given that this mystery has been around for thousands of years I personally don't have a high degree of confidence that any amount of money is going make a difference in the long run. One very real problem is that actual UFO phenomena data is deluded by the inclusion of disinformation and counterintelligence operations run to explain away or mask observations of classified projects. IMHO. Its an assumption yes, based on the history of the development of various spy-planes and the operations surrounding them.

I have every degree of confidence that a lot of money is already being spent on the subject, we just aren't going to be privy to anything that comes of it unless you want to count the brilliant work of the Collins Elite in narrowing down the list of suspects to the subjects of ancient superstition and religiously induced fear. Which brings us back to ...why would they want to inject that into the mix in such a manner?

You know in watching some old videos and reviewing some other material I think the "terrible secret" meme that has been in the ufological discussion for sometime as a confirmation of the "demon theory" having been given serious consideration. How many times has someone said, the secret of UFOs is so terrible, so strange, so devastating that it can't be told? I could be wrong but I think it somewhat confirms that people have been floating this idea for decades on the inside.
 
I just got around to listening to this episode yesterday. Nice job, Gene and Chris! That was a great example of how a show like that should be done. I had been wondering what the deal was with Mr. Sanchez, and now it seems obvious he is just in way over his head. I don't think he's making up his story about the Colonel or whoever, but to claim to be a UFO researcher of 20 years and not to know about the Shaver Mystery let alone not know who Ray Palmer was is pretty silly. To be telling a story about the Deros and their cohorts without ever running across Shaver in, say, a Google search is amazing. The story of the discovery of the cave system in the 40s is just too full of holes to even qualify as a good yarn.

So that leaves me wondering what is really behind the effort. Is the mystery colonel some random nut? I don't think Sanchez is clueless. Some of the things he mentioned as convincing corroboration seem like the sort of things perpetrated on poor old Bennewitz. It all seems too well organized to be some crackpot telling tall tales for the fun of it. The military maneuvers in Dulce on the day Sanchez visited are either a remarkable coincidence, or some high theater on par with the helicopters "taking down license plate numbers" in the hotel parking lot a year or two back, at dawn the day after the Dulce Base get-together. I was pretty disappointed in the old salts at that conference falling for that one. One does not have to think long or hard to come up with half a dozen easier and cheaper ways to get the identities of the attendees at that event, undetected. If "they" were interested to begin with. Helicopters are obscenely expensive to operate, and that stunt would be way over the top for some pilots having a laugh.

So what are they trying to hide? Is there something uncool in the area? Has it been going on for decades? Are they trying to divert attention from some real underground base (with or without "aliens") elsewhere? All of the above? Chris, your comments about odd things out in the middle of nowhere in the Dulce area are intriguing. It would not surprise me a bit if the gummint had some kind of illegal, unethical and counter productive operation hidden somewhere out there that they are keen to keep hidden.

Note to any researcher or would-be researcher who might be interested in spending time on any part of the Dulce business: Read Greg Bishop's excellent book. Then read it again.
 
I don't personally doubt that there is a Col. X or even that he passed lie detector tests. What I do question is whether the colonel is a disinformation agent or not. I think that there is a good chance that he is. A trained intelligence agent should be able to beat a polygraph.
 
I don't personally doubt that there is a Col. X or even that he passed lie detector tests. What I do question is whether the colonel is a disinformation agent or not. I think that there is a good chance that he is. A trained intelligence agent should be able to beat a polygraph.
 
Gene Steinberg said:
I remain skeptical of the whole thing. I thought of this Col. X being a derivative of Tim Beckley's "Commander X" character.
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Then you seem to regard Sanchez as a veritable Gray Barker. What about the documentation of the colonel's military record. Is it all just a story-selling hoax?
 
OK, it looks credible, though the name is redacted, so we have no idea to whom it really refers. And just because a military person has a distinguished service record doesn't mean that person won't go off the rails after discharge.

Col. Corso had a pretty compelling record too, but that doesn't mean that the claims he made in "The Day After Roswell" are correct. There is evidence to show otherwise.
 
Gene, Chris,
I just finished reading UFO Highway. I have the second edition of the book and his Paracast appearance is mentioned on page 189.
”AUTHOR: In a 2010 interview on the Paracast, the setup for the reference was taken out of context, and I felt it unfairly made me appear as if I was not aware of the nature of Commander-X when in fact, this data had already been shared with by Noria Hoyakowa some months earlier. “
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What happened? Did he forget? At around 2:29:00 he says, “One is a former Intelligence operative. He remains somewhat a mystery. You can find him at Amazon.” Gene tells Anthony that Commander-X is “fake” and Anthony says, “Thank you for telling me that.” Later he says that he is really upset about it at the very end of the show.

On what may be a comment on things said in Frank Warren's thread at Above Top Secret, there is this:
“Today a conspiracy is being conducted against my work by small-minded men; cowards who most likely are being financed by both the AFOSI, and Alien/Human hybrid contingent (Illuminati/Austra-Albus).
And why are they being paid? It is to conduct a campaign of slander. Emails have been fabricated in my name, and these have been circulated in an attempt to silence me, to shame me. They have used my nervousness to speak on camera or on radio about Dulce as evidence of lying. Guess what? I am not sorry for my nervousness.”
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I think it would make for a fascinating show if he were to come back on and address the drama surrounding this book.

Also, Norio Hoyakowa is mentioned dozens of times throughout and the book even contains a tribute chapter in the back called “ Fellow Researcher: Norio Hoyakowa.” I get the impression from the book that Anthony was working with Norio in the creation of the book. I would be interested in hearing Mr. Hoyakowa's take on the Mr. Sanchez, his book, what his participation was, and the things that have transpired since the book's release.

If Mr. Sanchez were to agree to come back on the Paracast, I think it would be really helpful if one or both of you actually read the whole book beforehand. If he won't provide a review copy for you I'll be glad to loan you my copy. I say this not because I am actually recommending the book, but because I cannot believe some of the comments made by other interviewers about the book itself.

Another thing that would be interesting to talk to him about is whether he is ever going to release the interview tapes as he discussed doing on the Paracast episode.
 
Yeah. What ever became of disguising the voice on the interview tapes? Was the Paracast going to work with him on that?
 
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