Questions for Jesse Ventura!

[trainedobserver]

2nd shot Neck & connellly

You honestly think that the single bullet or magic bullet theory as it gets referred to is plausible? Call me a reality divorced conspiracy nut if you like, but I can't get past that one myself. I remember the reconstructions and tests shown on CBS as a kid. I remember thinking that it was incredibly bizarre then. My dad was a stanch believer in anything the Warren Commission said though and you didn't question that stuff in my house.

Another odd thing about the whole business that really doesn't get talked about;Why shoot the president and not brag about it? Why would Oswald shoot the president and then not take credit for it? If you're driven by ideology to commit such an act it seems logical that such a commitment would cause you to take the grand opportunity provided to promote it. If you kill someone for personal gain you are most likely to hide it. If you kill someone to make an ideological point it does no good unless you advertise it. That's not any reason to think one way or another about it I admit, but it is something that has occurred to me.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

I have looked at several explanations for it and they do hold water for me, a layperson.


Fun Fact:

The rock star Meatloaf was in town when Kennedy got shot and went with friends over to Parkland Hospital where he saw Jackie but not the president.

Lance

That bullet also bothers me too, but I have not looked into it very much. Do you know where the explanations are?

 

[tyder001]

Wow, y'all are much more into this than I am. But, I have been inspired and found a "banned book" on the murder that looks like it might be fun to read. I know, and I don't mean to sound cold. The Kennedy assanation scarred my nation for life (imo) but the back and forth arguments and theorys are interesting to me. I have lately been into muscical biographies like the Eagles Don Felder and Al Kooper's Backstage Passes. Soon as I finish the latest Hank Williams bio I'm gonna dig into some of the Kennedy books.

 

[Ron Collins]

@Ron:

I have shot rifles before but not in a long while. I read that at 88 yards, it is possible that Oswald didn't even need the scope and could have sighted with the standard iron sights. Is this plausible to you as a shooter?

Lance

In my estimation it would have been an easier shot if he used the iron sights only. The shots were all under 100 yards. Depending on the zero of the rifle you could be way off. I mean like 5 or 10 feet off. I had first read that given the scope position as it was delivered to the FBI it would have to have been zeroed at 475 yards. That is a very odd zero. Typically rifles are zeroed in 100 yard increments. Sometimes even at 50 yard intervals but almost never below that. So basically, there is now no way to know the zero. That 475 yard zero would have translated into 3 to 7 inches off from center. Meaning that it would be nearly impossible to use the scope for an accurate shot. But given that the scope was removed by whomever looked for fingerprints. That, as I sit, eliminates every argument about the accuracy of the rifle and scope comnbination as it pertains to that exact setup delivered to the FBI. Now it is down to the effectiveness of the rifle and scope when properly configured. I have not had time to research that enough. But I will let you know when I do.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Thanks Lance. As with most conspiracy theories, it's had to sift through the facts. I'm really disappointed that Ventura totally misreprestented the facts. I guess that's what you have to do when you want to defend an idea that you cherish.

 

[Ron Collins]

Thanks Lance. As with most conspiracy theories, it's had to sift through the facts. I'm really disappointed that Ventura totally misreprestented the facts. I guess that's what you have to do when you want to defend an idea that you cherish.

This is a very good article that illustrates the key geometry and why the SBT is so hotly disputed. http://www.jfkballistics.com/sbtfactnotfiction.html

 

[exo_doc]

Unless some government informent comes along with a truck load of indisputable evidence, we'll never know what happened. It's just too big of a mess.
Roswell is that way too, it has become so muddled nothing can be known for certain now.
HAARP is that way, most conspiracy theories are that way.
If I wanted to hide the facts of an event, what better way than to have agents out there pro and con, throwing around manufactured evidence along with the real evidence.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

The issue is the accuracy. Could a shooter with modest skills make those shots? That's more important than whether it took a second or two longer.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

It's the whole package. I asked the questions necessary to get his position on the matter. It's a conspiracy that'll never die, however people feel about it.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

As always, I remain open-minded, but skeptical of the traditional explanation.

 

[Kieran]

Lance, you haven't even attempted to answer even one of the more reasonable and rational question's, i have asked. I recommend you least try ok, if not for my benefit, do try, and answer for the benefit of other readers of this thread.

Lance. I don't believe you need to be an expert, to recognize, there is two serious if not significant flaws with the Warren report claim of Oswald having killed Kennedy alone.

Facts.
The back of the head of President Kennedy, has no impact damage whatsoever, this is not made up theory, by me Lance! The Zapruder Film, clearly show's all damage having happened, on the right side of President Kennedy's head. Please review the Zapuder film, again Lance, for your analysis.

What I find funny also, is Penn and Teller (skeptics) used a melon, as a test to show, how Kennedy was shot from behind the second time. But what does the demonstration, actually show? Well it show's Teller shooting the Melon from the front, same rifle, that allegedly, had been used by Oswald, the day of the shooting. A hole in the front end, is then observed, when the bullet does strike the melon (nothing like this is seen on the Zapuder film) a bigger hole appears, as the fired bullet exits the back of the Melon (Kennedy the exit wound was right not in the front) the melon, then falls off to the right off the table (Kennedy went left) Completely inconsistent with what is shown on the Zapruder film.

Lance, nobody on here is confessing to be an expert, but are you honestly not curious, as to how a bullet shot, from behind Kennedy motorcade, would strike Kennedy, at the back of the head, and then leave the right side of his head, instead of the front end?, if you need an expert to tell you stuff, like this doesn't make any sense, why does that say about your skills of investigation?

Finally. I have posted two obvious flaws for your consideration, but ok another one, you've got a believe Oswald Missed the first shot? Well if the first shot, according to the most experts, is always the best one, why did Oswald Miss it?

You do realize it alleged he hit a curb with the missed bullet, this resulted in a piece of concrete allegedly, then breaking off, and hitting a bystander in the face some 150 to 200 yards away from were Oswald was allegedly positioned at.That probably did happen, as the bystander, only sustained a minor cut to the cheek, but Oswald having missed the first shot, one can only doubt the official version of events, after that surely?

Of course Lance , the killing of Oswald by Jack Ruby, two days after the killing is not suspicious at all. Here is a something new/ a study in 2007 which cast doubt on there been only one gunman.

Bullet Evidence Challenges Findings In JFK Assassination

 

[Kieran]

Here is the Zapruder film, watch the back of Kennedy's head, as the second bullet hits him.

Zapruder film

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Lance, you haven't even attempted to answer even one of the more reasonable and rational question's, i have asked. I recommend you least try ok, if not for my benefit, do try, and answer for the benefit of other readers of this thread.

Lance. I don't believe you need to be an expert, to recognize, there is two serious if not significant flaws with the Warren report claim of Oswald having killed Kennedy alone.

Facts.
The back of the head of President Kennedy, has no impact damage whatsoever, this is not made up theory, by me Lance! The Zapruder Film, clearly show's all damage having happened, on the right side of President Kennedy's head. Please review the Zapuder film, again Lance, for your analysis.

What I find funny also, is Penn and Teller (skeptics) used a melon, as a test to show, how Kennedy was shot from behind the second time. But what does the demonstration, actually show? Well it show's Teller shooting the Melon from the front, same rifle, that allegedly, had been used by Oswald, the day of the shooting. A hole in the front end, is then observed, when the bullet does strike the melon (nothing like this is seen on the Zapuder film) a bigger hole appears, as the fired bullet exits the back of the Melon (Kennedy the exit wound was right not in the front) the melon, then falls off to the right off the table (Kennedy went left) Completely inconsistent with what is shown on the Zapruder film.

Lance, nobody on here is confessing to be an expert, but are you honestly not curious, as to how a bullet shot, from behind Kennedy motorcade, would strike Kennedy, at the back of the head, and then leave the right side of his head, instead of the front end?, if you need an expert to tell you stuff, like this doesn't make any sense, why does that say about your skills of investigation?

Finally. I have posted two obvious flaws for your consideration, but ok another one, you've got a believe Oswald Missed the first shot? Well if the first shot, according to the most experts, is always the best one, why did Oswald Miss it?

You do realize it alleged he hit a curb with the missed bullet, this resulted in a piece of concrete allegedly, then breaking off, and hitting a bystander in the face some 150 to 200 yards away from were Oswald was allegedly positioned at.That probably did happen, as the bystander, only sustained a minor cut to the cheek, but Oswald having missed the first shot, one can only doubt the official version of events, after that surely?

Of course Lance , the killing of Oswald by Jack Ruby, two days after the killing is not suspicious at all. Here is a something new/ a study in 2007 which cast doubt on there been only one gunman.

Bullet Evidence Challenges Findings In JFK Assassination

Kieran, with all due respect, Lance has repeatedly answered that question. It is a non-issue at this point since it has been replicated. Be honest with yourself. I had some of the same misgivings you currently do, but looking at all the evidence, it points to at least the possibility that Oswald could have acted alone.
As Gene and others have stated though, there will always be doubt, and that's fine.

 

[Kieran]

Kieran, with all due respect, Lance has repeatedly answered that question. It is a non-issue at this point since it has been replicated. Be honest with yourself. I had some of the same misgivings you currently do, but looking at all the evidence, it points to at least the possibility that Oswald could have acted alone.
As Gene and others have stated though, there will always be doubt, and that's fine.

With all due respect back to you Angel, he hasn't addressed anything, and hasn't been replicated since, so what you on about?

Also, if you care to read my posts to this thread.

I never claimed Oswald, was not there in Dallas, that day, and had not fired a weapon at Kennedy. Please don't confuse my arguments, with the argument, the rifle used by Oswald was not up to the task.

I don't know, if it was or not, the lack of damage to the back of the head of Kennedy, and the obvious damage to right side. Is clear sign for anyone with some thinking skills going on, to realize the shot must have come from the right.

 

[boomerang]

When assessing an event as tangled as the JFK assassination, it is justifiable to sum up odd facts and unlikely events which may paint a larger picture. A few of the better known:

-Oswald's documented work in areas of the U.S. government that were, at the very least, sensitive from a cold war intelligence standpoint.
-Oswald's defection to and assimilation by Russia, followed by a penalty free return to America--as if he had been on a tourists's jaunt.
-The unlikely feat--I stand by (ex-Navy SEAL) Ventura's and others' statements- that the POS of a rifle found in the sniper's nest would make the head shots very unlikely. Also, did Oswald regularly sight in the rifle and practice with it? I really don't know.
-The "magic bullet" conveniently falling out of someone's clothing and onto a stretcher at the hospital where it was found in very very good condition. One might almost suspect some after the fact improvisation on the part of someone who didn't have time to deform it in a realistic manner.
-Jack Ruby's offing the prime suspect in a very timely manner--then disappearing into the woodwork, virtually never to be heard from again.
-Kennedy's well known disconnect with, and animosity towards, traditional "powers that be".

 

[Kieran]

Bringing some Humor to this thread.

The American Comedian Bill Hicks mocking the official version of events, enjoy.

[video]http://youtu.be/awpmdRxLLCo[/video]

 

[Angel of Ioren]

I never claimed Oswald, was not there in Dallas, that day, and had not fired a weapon at Kennedy. Please don't confuse my arguments, with the argument, the rifle used by Oswald was not up to the task.

I don't think I ever said that. I was referring to the fact that Lance did post a response to the way the shots affected the victim.

 

[Kieran]

Sorry Lance.

Posting a paragraph of pure nonsense, doesn't help this debate. I'm rapidly forming an opinion your ignoring the points, I raised.

You cite known examples of it been done, ok care to show me, and others, a real-time video of a human skull, been fired at from a similar elevated point of 88 plus yards, and it exploding, in the same manner as JFK brain, did that horrible day. Step by step progress needs to be shown. I'll await your examples

Here is JFK Posterior head wound.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/JFK_posterior_head_wound.jpg

That shown, tiny little hole, is were the bullet allegedly hit the back of the head of Kennedy. So your saying a shot fired from 88 yards away, and I'm no expert in this, but maybe some other people, have some knowledge on it, but what kind of damage should there have been, you tell me Lance.

The Zapruder Film is physical evidence, it clearly showing Kennedy, having not been hit by a bullet to the back of the head, post whatever text you like, the film from that day doesn't lie, people do.

---------- Post added at 03:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:10 PM ----------



Angel.Well I await evidence in a form acceptable to everyone, if he can, then I will accept defeat in this debate no problem.

 

[stphrz]

it is justifiable to sum up odd facts and unlikely events which may paint a larger picture.

While anyone has the freedom to do that if they wish, there is no reasonable standard by which it is ever justified. No matter how confusing the events surrounding a case are, adding more confusion will not bring order or insight. The kind of thought process that believes it will is called insanity. Unchecked and unchallenged it leads to injustice.

 

[boomerang]

But they draw the line at agreeing that the same bullet could have also pierced the soft tissue of Kennedy's neck!

Not really. Those experienced in high velocity firearms, such as hunters, simply find a high velocity round that has accomplished as much damage as the magic bullet being in such excellent condition does not square with their experience in the field. Perhaps I am ascribing too much credibility to Mr. Ventura. But I frankly think he is "shooting straight" (arrgh!) on this one.

I will take a chance on this quote from Wikipedia:
According to the single-bullet theory, a three-centimeter-long copper-jacketed lead-core 6.5-millimeter rifle bullet fired from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository passed through President Kennedy’s neck and Governor Connally’s chest and wrist and embedded itself in the Governor’s thigh. If so, this bullet traversed 15 layers of clothing, 7 layers of skin, and approximately 15 inches of tissue, struck a necktie knot, removed 4 inches of rib, and shattered a radius bone.

Default Re: Questions for Jesse Ventura! Quote Originally Posted by boomerang View Post it is justifiable to sum up odd facts and unlikely events which may paint a larger picture. While anyone has the freedom to do that if they wish, there is no reasonable standard by which it is ever justified.

On the contrary, the improbability of a string of interconnected coincidences increases with the number of improbable events involved. Multiple coincidences should not form patterns. Conscious intent is suspected when they do.