The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis : Fact and Fallacy

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Classic Tv show and Sci-fi affecting society both ways. Like Creepy Green Light suggested about nuclear stations and the interpretation of events occurring from inside to outside the fence. Similarities , in old Soviet Union and those who worked inside the Nuclear facilities and their personal experiences during the Cold War. The civilian scientist who observed the unknown activities not once but waves of events. Also Mike the latest findings in our space and the fact photosynthesis can occur in extreme climates and especially around volcanic rocks . http://elib.dlr.de/97969/1/Vera et al 2014.pdf

 

[Trajanus]

it's possible if any bodies were recovered (which I doubt)

Why? Even the official government position was that something like that was seen, or they wouldn't have come up with the crash dummies explanation.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Here's another angle that should be factored into UFO sightings, reports, abductions, etc. that is never talked about but has bothered me. It's an element that lets you know how deranged/mental/pranksterish/sick people are; police in Tampa have asked the public's help in information regarding the serial killer on the loose. I know speaking for myself, I've NEVER have been able to (but would in a heartbeat if I had valid information) provide a tip to authorities in any type of crime/missing persons case. But when police asked the citizens, what happened (and this happens all the time, coast to coast regarding any type of crime)?

"The department has received more than 5,000 tips. Dugan says he's optimistic but acknowledged previous leads have led to nothing."

What?! Really? So you are telling me 5000+ people have authentically thought that they had the key (or part of the key) to solve the Tampa serial killer case? No. Of course not. These are weirdos/wackos/pranksters/people that need attention/people with mental disorders/people that see things and call in a bogus "tip". So with that in mind, translate that over to the UFO arena. When people have all these stories, mass sightings, etc. How many of them are bogus? How many of the reports are erroneous? Like when Tim Edwards has a spider web attached to his roof but his family members saw "the tiny flying saucers coming out of the bigger flying saucer then going back into the bigger flying saucer" and how it moved "hundreds of miles in less than 1 second." And how people on the other side of town saw it too (which we know at the very least they DID NOT see the same thing Edwards filmed). Translate all that across the spectrum and its pretty disheartening because it makes one feel (almost) that at the end of the day, there is nothing to this entire thing.

I still hold out hope & believe. But now that I'm 46 (and not 9) I'm more of a skeptical believer.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Why? Even the official government position was that something like that was seen, or they wouldn't have come up with the crash dummies explanation.

That's a good point and I never looked at that angle.

 

[Trajanus]

It doesn't matter how weird the case is, those high strange components have been there from the start and they need integration into any working theory.

Of course; I don't dismiss HS cases but think they make perfect sense in the context of the ETH.

I think what witness testimony produces is evidence of what could be various phenomena at work and not just a singular answer.

A single answer is certainly suggested by the intensification of all aspects of the phenomenon since 1946 and its secretive nature.

It doesn't make sense to squeeze all the odd shaped blocks into the ETH square hole when what's on the table for points of origin may be entirely about human psychology,

No way it could be "entirely about human psychology" which doesn't produce landing traces or radar blips. Also, as has been noted for decades, a psychological explanation makes no sense inasmuch as the bulk of cases are from thinly populated areas.

human experimentation or involve unknown Earth bound phenomenon, consciousnesses or even life forms not from this planet.

How are advanced life forms supposed to get here without advanced technology? Exactly how does "unknown Earth bound phenomena" so often produce images of technological craft, and why have these (natural?) phenomena intensified since WWII? The ETH is far and away the most parsimonious view.

If all we talk about is the alien technology we seem to encounter in our skies then a lot of other very rich data gets excluded, reshaped or thrown into the waste bin for the sake of a theory. Should not we adapt new theories to fit all the evidence?

New or nonET theories just aren't necessary. I am NOT "excluding, reshaping or throwing out ANY data. HS cases are real, no doubt, and perfectly consistent with the secretive nature of the phenomenon. Generally it looks ET but it doesn't want us to be sure ET is here. Ergo, it not only avoids open contact, by running away when seen, it tries to confuse us, to keep us endlessly guessing about what we're dealing with. You are a perfect example of the efficacy of ET operations. A far advanced civilization really knows what it's doing.....

 

[marduk]

Why? Even the official government position was that something like that was seen, or they wouldn't have come up with the crash dummies explanation.

Because it doesn't really make sense, and every single witness that has reported bodies being recovered has turned out to be hoaxed, or unverifiable, or at the very least misleading.

A guest wrote a whole book about it, I can't remember which.

Besides, it logically makes zero sense, just like crash debris being back engineered makes zero sense.

If we had bodies and gear, we could theoretically engineer a biological, chemical, or technological threat to them, making their presence here difficult. So if we had them, they probably wouldn't be here any more. Except they still are. And it also means that if we had their tech and bodies, they'd likely recover them. Given their propertied ability to cloak, 'turn off' people, go from zero to supersonic in less than a second, remotely shut down defences, and walk through walls, we couldn't stop them.

So logically it makes zero sense that we got their crap, biological or technological. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it's very improbable.

Times a few orders of magnitude of improbability given nobody has coughed them up by now.

 

[Burnt State]

Of course; I don't dismiss HS cases but think they make perfect sense in the context of the ETH.

they don't for me at all.

A single answer is certainly suggested by the intensification of all aspects of the phenomenon since 1946 and its secretive nature.

I don't see how anyone can say that given we are aware of hoaxes, cases where they were in fact entirely delusional and psychological in origin, and it is important to differentiate between abduction cases and craft sightings as well as event anomalies vs. experience anomalies. The fact that we know very little about the phenomenon to this day and its myriad of forms suggests multiple phenomena are at work.

No way

it could be "entirely about human psychology" which doesn't produce landing traces or radar blips. Also, as has been noted for decades, a psychological explanation makes no sense inasmuch as the bulk of cases are from thinly populated areas.

sorry if I was unclear but in that list I was suggesting various options for different cases and did not mean to imply that all cases are psychological in nature as I do not subscribe to that.

How are advanced life forms supposed to get here without advanced technology? Exactly how does "unknown Earth bound phenomena" so often produce images of technological craft, and why have these (natural?) phenomena intensified since WWII? The ETH is far and away the most parsimonious view.

yes it's strange isn't it? How could these things be happening....enough Paracast listening suggests that there are many possibilities including the planet itself producing these images - there are many options.

New or nonET theories just aren't necessary. I am NOT "excluding, reshaping or throwing out ANY data. HS cases are real, no doubt, and perfectly consistent with the secretive nature of the phenomenon. Generally it looks ET but it doesn't want us to be sure ET is here. Ergo, it not only avoids open contact, by running away when seen, it tries to confuse us, to keep us endlessly guessing about what we're dealing with. You are a perfect example of the efficacy of ET operations. A far advanced civilization really knows what it's doing.....

and for those who find the ETH to be satisfactory then there really is nothing else to talk about is there? All these outlandish cases and beliefs in crop circles as alien communication. Can continue on quite happily. Those can rest comfortably in knowing that all of these events and experiences are simply aliens from space and what follows in the wake of that lack of questioning and assuredness is the opportunity for entire religions, suicide cults and all manners of human confabulation to follow such as the weird and irresponsible ideas that descend from the Greer's, the alien mummy folk, the prophecies of one armed farmers and Jacobs' notions of planetary take over. I find all of it rather unsatisfying when we stop the search at that line convinced that all of it is ET. That's way too simple an answer for me I suppose.

 

[Burnt State]

Also along that line of thinking is the notion that we should all just wait around for disclosure....another bogus Enterprise along with the irresponsible convincing of people that if they've seen a craft they've probably been abducted.

 

[Burnt State]

I still hold out hope & believe. But now that I'm 46 (and not 9) I'm more of a skeptical believer

Same plus three years.

 

[mike]

Very creative thinking here. This idea of the role of the dead in ufology keeps recurring in different forms and formats and is very intriguing to me. Ya wanna go into that in a little more detail?

It does seem to be a feature of the narrative.

But again the information comes from various sources and not all of them are credible to many. So we have to take that information with a grain of salt.

For example in the alleged autopsy reports there were supposedly two types of critter, one is described as being an artificially modified human

An incision was made from the thorax to the scrotum. The skin was first extended from the fascia and the fascia was observed to be consistent with the appearance of an immature human male. The fascia were then dissected and the internal organs were observed. The position of the heart was observed to be vertical, as would be consistent with a very early fetus, prior to the fourth month. The organ was prominent and was weighed to be 1/70th of the mass of the body. When the organ was dissected it was found that there was direct communication between the two auricles through the formen ovale. The Eustachian valve was observed to be large. A ductus arteriosus was observed to communicate between the pulmonary artery and the descending aorta. This ductus opened into the descending aorta just below the origin of the left subclavian artery.

Alterations in the structure of the circulatory system suggested that this body had been surgically corrected to detach it from placental dependence in an artificial manner. The stomach was opened and found to be free of any food substances. The cardiac orifice was apparently atrophied, although the deterioration of the corpus made this difficult to determine. It is possible that this individual did not eat.

The liver was prominent and it was clear that the blood of the umbilical vein would traverse it before entering the inferior cava. The umbilical vein itself had been severed of its placental crown and returned to the circulatory system by a means that was beyond the scope of this dissection to establish.

The lungs were not developed. There were lateral pouches on either side of the central diverticulum, open through into the pharynx. The larynx was somewhat cartilaginous and the trachea was developed.

It is probable that this individual did not breathe and more than he ate. The means of sustaining life is unknown, if he was ever alive in any practical sense.

The cranium was dissected and it was found that the skull was formed of exceptionally thin and pliant cartilaginous material, appearing to be bone precursor that had been affected in some manner, making it more than usually thin and delicate. The brain itself was extensively and surprisingly formed. There was an unknown cortex superimposed on the forebrain and extending as far back as the fissure of Ralando.

Because of this extraordinary formation it was decided not to pursue dissection of the brain at this time. The organ was extracted and placed in fluid preservation pending further study.

Overall, this corpus presented the appearance of a human embryo of three to four months duration that had been the subject of considerable alteration and modification, some of it obviously surgical. Other modifications, such as that of the brain, were harder to understand. In addition to the alterations, there was the matter of the size of the body and the relatively mature condition of the epidermis and nails. It would appear that this fetus was separated from its mother and brought to a semi-functional state by artificial means.

3. Conclusion

This is a human fetus that has been subjected to forced maturation without normal gestation. Its degree of functionality while living if it ever was alive is unknown.

Some accounts hold that some greys refer to their bodies as vessels or vehicles. A post biological society might use such biological devices to give individual experience sets mobility. ie uploaded the experience set of a person when their birth bio-form wears out, and load them into these optimized bio-forms.

Add time travel to the mix and the person could abduct their own native bio-form for genetic material to make these clone body's, it makes sense to do this when the native bio-form is young before free radicals start damaging the genes. Indeed the narrative does hint at abductions happening when the person is young and tapering off and ending as they get older in some cases.

"We recycle souls" was also allegedly given as an answer. If we define soul as a persons experience set their memory's and emotional filters. Then again that sort of fits in.

One woman allegedly told one of her greys "you look so ugly" to which it replied "dont say that, you will look like this in the future". She assumed it was referring to the human species, But when i suggested to her that it might have been more literal, ie She may look like that in the future, in the context of their association with the dead and the possibility of uploads, she agreed that might have been exactly what it was inferring.

Without sidelining this disussion about whether its possible or not we are looking at uploading our soul/consciousness/experience sets call it what you will.

Whole brain emulation (WBE), mind upload or brain upload (sometimes called "mind copying" or "mind transfer") is the hypothetical process of scanning mental state (including long-term memory and "self") of a particular brain substrate and copying it to a computer. The computer could then run a simulation model of the brain's information processing, such that it responds in essentially the same way as the original brain (i.e., indistinguishable from the brain for all relevant purposes) and experiences having a conscious mind.


Mind uploading may potentially be accomplished by either of two methods: Copy-and-Transfer or gradual replacement of neurons. In the case of the former method, mind uploading would be achieved by scanning and mapping the salient features of a biological brain, and then by copying, transferring, and storing that information state into a computer system or another computational device. The simulated mind could be within a virtual reality or simulated world, supported by an anatomic 3D body simulation model. Alternatively, the simulated mind could reside in a computer that is inside (or connected to) a (not necessarily humanoid) robot or a biological body in real life.[4]


Among some futurists and within the transhumanist movement, mind uploading is treated as an important proposed life extension technology. Some believe mind uploading is humanity's current best option for preserving the identity of the species, as opposed to cryonics. Another aim of mind uploading is to provide a permanent backup to our "mind-file", and a means for functional copies of human minds to survive a global disaster or interstellar space travels. Whole brain emulation is discussed by some futurists as a "logical endpoint"[4] of the topical computational neuroscience and neuroinformatics fields, both about brain simulation for medical research purposes. It is discussed in artificial intelligence research publications as an approach to strong AI. Computer-based intelligence such as an upload could think much faster than a biological human even if it were no more intelligent. A large-scale society of uploads might, according to futurists, give rise to a technological singularity, meaning a sudden time constant decrease in the exponential development of technology.[5] Mind uploading is a central conceptual feature of numerous science fiction novels and films.


Substantial mainstream research in related areas is being conducted in animal brain mapping and simulation, development of faster super computers, virtual reality, brain–computer interfaces, connectomics and information extraction from dynamically functioning brains.[6] According to supporters, many of the tools and ideas needed to achieve mind uploading already exist or are currently under active development; however, they will admit that others are, as yet, very speculative, but still in the realm of engineering possibility. Neuroscientist Randal Koene has formed a nonprofit organization called Carbon Copies to promote mind uploading research.
Mind uploading - Wikipedia



Seti is now suggesting ET is more likely to be post biological as well.

If this is indeed whats happening, you can see why the secrecy. We could deal with a scenario of little green men from another planet.

But if disclosure was "When you die you wind up in a disposable body like the one described above, and that the society responsible are not asking permission, we have no say in this process.........."

I think a lot of people would have a problem with that especially those expecting clouds and harps.

I suppose a simulated heaven could be provided as a virtual reality for those who really wanted it, or couldn't handle the actual reality.

 

[Burnt State]

Re: soul recycling....I find much of what Strieber and Jacobs has to say on these matters to have little in the way of substantial merit. Great speculation though. These narratives, including Karla Turner's collected stories strike me as very internal spaces with no real facts or external evidence to support their stories.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Now your ridicling the authors instead just putting the evidence on the table.

 

[Burnt State]

Now your ridicling the authors instead just putting the evidence on the table.

I'm not ridiculing. I'm pointing out that they are recounting stories not evidence.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Another classic. When I was a kid, at 4:20 my anxiety level would peg out. Right until it disappears behind the hill. Still gives me the chills in a fun way when I see it

 

[mike]

Re: soul recycling....I find much of what Strieber and Jacobs has to say on these matters to have little in the way of substantial merit. Great speculation though. These narratives, including Karla Turner's collected stories strike me as very internal spaces with no real facts or external evidence to support their stories.

Yes i went pains to insert that caveat.

But again lets look at the local model

Mind uploading may potentially be accomplished by either of two methods: Copy-and-Transfer or gradual replacement of neurons. In the case of the former method, mind uploading would be achieved by scanning and mapping the salient features of a biological brain, and then by copying, transferring, and storing that information state into a computer system or another computational device. The simulated mind could be within a virtual reality or simulated world, supported by an anatomic 3D body simulation model. Alternatively, the simulated mind could reside in a computer that is inside (or connected to) a (not necessarily humanoid) robot or a biological body in real life.[4]

Substantial mainstream research in related areas is being conducted in animal brain mapping and simulation, development of faster super computers, virtual reality, brain–computer interfaces, connectomics and information extraction from dynamically functioning brains.[6] According to supporters, many of the tools and ideas needed to achieve mind uploading already exist or are currently under active development; however, they will admit that others are, as yet, very speculative, but still in the realm of engineering possibility.

Given many scientists think its within the realm of engineering possibility, Its not a huge leap to make to speculate that an advanced technology might have gone down the same path we are here and now.

 

[Constance]

For example in the alleged autopsy reports there were supposedly two types of critter, one is described as being an artificially modified human

What is the source of the 'autopsy report' you have highlighted in blue type?

 

[Trajanus]

Because it doesn't really make sense, and every single witness that has reported bodies being recovered has turned out to be hoaxed, or unverifiable, or at the very least misleading.

The reports may be unverifiable in that the public doesn't have access. But not all reports have been shown to be hoaxes. As I wrote before, the government did take the body reports seriously, as it came up with the crash dummies "explanation."

If we had bodies and gear, we could theoretically engineer a biological, chemical, or technological threat to them, making their presence here difficult. So if we had them, they probably wouldn't be here any more.

It's possible that we are not able to understand ET technology to the point where we can duplicate it, or we don't have the infrastructure or money to do so, on the scale necessary.

Except they still are. And it also means that if we had their tech and bodies, they'd likely recover them. Given their propertied ability to cloak, 'turn off' people, go from zero to supersonic in less than a second, remotely shut down defences, and walk through walls, we couldn't stop them.

I don't think we can assume they even knew where the stuff was taken. It is true that there was at least one report of a UFO destroying a stricken saucer and bodies on the ground. But that was over a decade after Roswell. They may not have been prepared to do that at the very start.

So logically it makes zero sense that we got their crap, biological or technological. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it's very improbable.

Theoretically it may seem that way to some people but the fact remains, the better Roswell testimony does point to this.

Times a few orders of magnitude of improbability given nobody has coughed them up by now.

Reminds me of what cda occasionally writes in KDR's blog. He just can't believe a scientific discovery of such magnitude could be kept under wraps for so long. I've repeatedly countered that it's not a mere scientific or academic matter. Revealing proof of ET could have a profound--or profoundly negative--impact on society, and the powers that be don't want to take a chance on that.

 

[Trajanus]

The fact that we know very little about the phenomenon to this day and its myriad of forms suggests multiple phenomena are at work...

All aspects of the phenomenon can be explained by an advanced yet largely deceptive alien presence. There's no need to invoke other dimensions or other unseen, unverified concepts.

...there are many possibilities including the planet itself producing these images

Sure, "the planet itself" producing images of technical craft is more parsimonious than the ETH....

The ETH is rational, and, as I've tried to show, even the most bizarre aspects of the phenomenon can fit in that rational framework. I'm not a follower of Greer, and dismiss a lot of notions about aliens, but the potential for outlandish movements would be far greater if a more far out interpretation were in vogue.

That's way too simple an answer for me I suppose.

IThe principle of parsimony--the simplest explanation is the best.

 

[Burnt State]

Reminds me of what cda occasionally writes in KDR's blog. He just can't believe a scientific discovery of such magnitude could be kept under wraps for so long. I've repeatedly countered that it's not a mere scientific or academic matter. Revealing proof of ET could have a profound--or profoundly negative--impact on society, and the powers that be don't want to take a chance on that.

Using Roswell as a measure, we know something crashed and it seems that some kind of bodies were recovered and in Kecksberg there was also a recovery of an object. In both cases human technology is in fact the parsimonious answer. And it couldn't be hidden. Leaks and witnesses stepped fwd. And if alien bodies or alien tech were present the scale of said recoveries would be massive and involve a heck of a lot of personnel running around in big friggin protective suits.

The idea of an alien craft with bodies crashing to earth would be an event of such enormous magnitude involving so many people and affecting so many more, not to mention the massive scale of what would be required to contain an alien technology or other biological life forms. There's simply no way you can put a lid on the biggest event in human history and think that like in the movies it can all be neatly hidden in Area 51. If it had happened not only would we know through leaks left right and centre, the studying and containment of it would be well visible and our social structure and ideas about air defence would have altered so radically that everyone would know. It's not about the govt deciding that they don't want to disrupt social structure - they simply would not have the capacity to pretend like nothing ever happened.

The one thing the govt has done exceedingly well has been perception management when it comes to the idea of ufos. Now why do you think they are so interested in wanting to leak out UFO reality all the time and make it appear like aliens are here? Silver Screen Saucers? Mirage Men anyone? Maybe the govt is also a firm believer in parsimony for the populous as well. Now why would that be? Maybe aliens from space is a much easier story to sell than what's really going on. Because I'm generally very distrusting of big brother and if they're trying to promote and demote UFO reality back and forth then yeah, asking other questions about this mystery instead of resting confidentially on the ETH would seem a rational thing.

 

[marduk]

The reports may be unverifiable in that the public doesn't have access. But not all reports have been shown to be hoaxes. As I wrote before, the government did take the body reports seriously, as it came up with the crash dummies "explanation."

That seems a bit like magical thinking to me.

I mean, we’re simultaneously thinking the US Military is amazingly competent in keeping the secret and amazingly incompetent in presenting the crash dummy theory.

I see a simpler answer: they don’t know what the hell happened and somebody just thought it might be a good way to shut the UFO nutters up.

Because the US Military is just as incompetent - if not more so - than any other human organization.