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The Myth Of The Myth Of Flying Saucers.

What if they told the truth at the start of the Roswell incident?


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in my opinion Posey is adding to the noise and his tales are the science fiction that he was forbidden to read.


I was not forbidden to read or see science fiction, Mom did not want us to believe in it, that's all.
I chose to read nonfiction because I found science, law, psychology Anthroposophy,, archeology, paleontology, cosmology, biology, quantum physics, and reality more interesting.
You are among the many that I know that feels that way about my experiences and are entitled to that opinion.
It did not happen to you, and you cannot prove it did not happen to me.
N.Y.C.M.U.F.O.N has my proof although what Walt Anders did with it I do not know.
But over the years by posting in forums like this I have met others that have had similar encounters with similar or like-kind entities.
If I was just writing "fiction" why did I not sell it to those that made offers to buy it, and make some money off it instead?
I am an amputee living off of social security disability, in an apartment in a rat infested four family house that I fear one day will collapse around my ears, while I sit trapped here breathing in black mold because the slumlord land lady won't take care of the leaking pipes, faulty wiring, and a crumbling foundation.
Her idea of maintenance is wait until it breaks, or blows up before repairing it.
So why would I not sell my so-called "science fiction" rather than freely share it on TV, Radio, and the Internet for the last two decades?
And might I add have to deal with all that the negative notoriety or infamy brings with doing that.
I.E.
Being laughed at in the streets, losing friends, receiving silent, crank, and threatening phone calls at all hours of the night and day, and let's not forget having my phone tapped and my home bugged, etc.
THEDEVILSNUMBER.jpg

But true it is not all bad every now and then I get calls from other Experiencers or Abductees that need someone to talk to that understands what it is like to deal with this very real, strange, sometimes crazy most of the time terrifying phenomena.
No one in his or her right mind wants to do, or want to deal with this stuff.
As for writing fiction, been there done that, from the time I was 13 through 18 I wrote over 500 books dealing with magic, science fiction, horror, spiritual matters, and 50 comic books.
I even had a small fan club consisting of neighbors, friends, some of my teachers, my younger brother Ralph was my inspiration and biggest fan and last but not least my mother.
When I was 18 I returned home from Summer Camp to find in a drunken rage my Dad had thrown every one of my books down the incinerator.
I had writers block for years and turned to creating something he could not destroy, music.
After I realized that what I had been convinced over the years by my mother had been just vivid dreams while iwas growing up, in truth had instead been real experiences I started to put them to pen,
Then after my first abduction that left evidence I contacted MUFON and after investigating my case they asked me if I would go Public on the Jackie Mason Show from there I was called by other TV programs, documentary producers, radio programs and to make public appearances then I published my experiences on the Internet my first site Pieces Of An Enigma, and then to Temple Of The Infidel all of which is free to anyone on the Internet.
So as I said I do not need your beliefs for they cannot validate, or invalidate my experiences.
Honestly I only came here looking for others that have had my experiences, and are willing to talk about them.
And as for publishing my experiences I am in the process of converting my site into hard copy more for my niece and nephews and grand nephews and nieces.
2006 I lost my girlfriend of 10 years Carolyn to cancer.
2007 I lost my father to Alzheimer's disease at 85.
I couldn't attend the funeral because I was in the hospital
2008 I lost my baby sister Janet to congested heart failure 50.
I couldn't attend the funeral because I was in the hospital
2009 I lost my, right leg because of a damned stupid ass disability Doctor, and three weeks later, I lost my mother to diabetes 85.
I couldn't attend the funeral because I was in the hospital
2010 I lost my older brother Chuck to congested heart failure 60.
I couldn't attend the funeral because I was in the hospital.
I am a diabetic and there is Alzheimer's disease in my family line.
In the last 12 years I have been hospitalized three times and nearly died each time.
This has prevented me from adding new information to my site, and yes I said new information, for, as for me this phenomenon continues.
I'll add it to my books, and if any of my nieces or nephews ever publishes them, then you can buy and read about them, it'll be up to them.
But I have grown weary of this wasteful banter with the village idiot.
So as I said before Pixie your Avatar suits you to a T, live in darkness my friend.

And while I am at it will all the Saints here please stand up state your real names and swear that you have never lied to your parents girlfriends, wives, buddies, on your taxes, never exaggerated, bore false witness, or help keep secret a lie to help a friend, spread malicious rumors knowingly or unknowingly, not returned an over payment by a cashier, ever stole a cookie or candy, lost your temper and physically hurt an animal, or another person with words actions or deeds, never had a negative thought or participated in negative actions toward another, never spreaded unproved and or improvable statements about others, or deliberately misquoted someone to make your point more credible.
No takers?​
Hmm, then I wonder why such unreal behavior is expected of others?​
 
Imbrogno is guilty of stolen valor as well. Imbrogno may very well be a pathological liar. There seems to be quite a few of those in this field. I think the reluctance of UFO buffs and fans of the paranormal to, as Don Ecker put so well, sweep the trash out has consigned the subject of UFOs to the status of a carnival side show. The field is littered with garbage that continues to trip up each succeeding generation. We have to reject these liars, confidence men, and absolute losers who make this field a laughing stock and a hiss. I'm not looking for the fiction, dreams, or delusions these clowns peddle.

There is no moving on for pathological liars, confidence men, and the pretenders who would steal your trust, trample on your goodwill, and destroy the reputation of your field of interest.

I heard the show on Dark Radio.
I like Don it's sad that he left the program.
I can't, don't, and won't really speak for Imbrogno's sins that's between him and his God.
I only talk about what I know.
I know about the Hudson Valley UFOs, and my experiences which he partially used in his book were true though not fully told in his book.
His possible turning out to be a liar does not make me one.
My experiences have been on line for almost thirty years now, and they have never changed.
If what is said about him is true, then it is true about him, and has nothing to do with me.
 
First I don't know how you guys even get through a Sitchin book.zzzzzz...Oh, wait I'm awake now. But, makes me wonder if I'm missing some great writing (true or not) by not staying with it. I don't think Sitchin is a liar in that "he" believes what he writes. I also don't think Posey is lying and I feel he has had some experiences that are intense and real. His translation of them however, is his own. Just as I translate my experiences through the lens (as do we all) of my life's journey. Anyway, I'll hang up and listen now. :cool:

Hey tyder001 try reading Wilhelm Reich 'Ach du Lieber Himmel'
 
This I agree with and I would also propose that even "IF" the powers that be have got their hands on any advanced non human technology who is to say that the line of development by these "Alien" others was the same as ours?

My point is that would we even understand that what we were looking at was a communication device to underscore the I-Pad analogy?

And even if we did the task of reproducing the same device from an engineers point of view is simply mind numbing to say the least.

The point that most of these "Back engineering" pundits miss is that not only do you have to understand the device but also all the steps taken to reach that level of technology and the manufacturing required to produce it as well. This means you must understand what every component in the circuit is there for, or indeed if it is a circuit at all by any human understanding of the concept. Then you must either reproduce that component or find an analog one that humans already produce that either works out right or could be modified to work the same.
This is just the tip of the iceberg believe me the task my not be totally impossible but it may as well be when you get down to the nuts and bolts of components and materials technology.

I would also like to add that the "Well we back engineered Nazi Tech" is not an argument at all.

Why?

Well the principals of say a jet engine or a rocket engine were in fact already understood to a good degree.
This made a back engineering attempt a reasonable proposition, not to mention that the scientists who worked on these projects were available as well to help produce the same product again. Now add to this the concept of mass production being understood and that the subject of back engineering was of a terrestrial nature the task is not as hard as it would other wise look.

The disclaimer I will add at the end here is this:

Even if we do not understand the technology by way of how it was made we may stumble upon the concept of what it was meant to do. As such in time we could produce a device that performs a similar task could we not?

If this is what is meant by back engineering then maybe it is possible but bear in mind that even understanding what the device itself is for to start with could be an insanely difficult task on its own.

While I do agree that we all (I know I have) justify or have justified our actions that were less then totally honest. It is still troubling that Imbrogno went out of his way to promote a lie he didn't even have to promote. To be honest if it were just "I have a Degree" or I worked on the space shuttle in 1980 then I could easily say "what the heck." But, the dude claimed stolen valor and I would say look up some of the discussion on that in these forums. His record is not 'Oh, I made a mistake" His record appears to be that he isn't well aquainted with the truth on any level. Now, I don't know "Butch" and actually I don't really dig into these folks background the way some on here do. I personally take everything ufo and paranormal with a grain of salt. I put more stock in my own life experience than I do in stories of lights in the sky. I also think there are plenty of honest scientist such as Sheldrake and Pin Lomel and Michael Grosso along with the late John Mack and Ian Stevenson to at least give creedence to the search for the paranomal outside of a test tube. I do understand what Posey is saying. I've had certain life experience that absolutely tells me that materialism is a dead end when looking for the truth. Nobody, no matter how many experts they quote can change that. Once, you've seen a white crow then it will never matter again that the "experts" say they are all absolutely black. However, only insane people never question their own experiences and world view. I've worked with some very troubled folks and the most "insane" ones were the most sure of their own sense of reality and rightness. :eek: But, I hasten to add I am not a psychiatrist and I am not claiming any "expert" opinion here. I just think people like Van Daniken and Sitchin and Greer and Lear have their own agenda. I also think people like Randi and Klass and Shchermer have their own agenda and all of them will fight like hell to promote their worldview. After all they are the rightous trying to save us from either the evil alien overlords or the illusion that we are actually beings with a spiritual purpose and destiny beyond a cosmic accident. :p I salute all of them. They are so much better than me in that I question everything. I am a true skeptic and believe me that isn't easy. I can't run over to the church or the 'free thinkers" society and get a pat on the back. I can't call my local Mufon group and discuss how much "I know" about "them" and the conspiracy to enslave mankind. I just muddle along and pray my prayers and curse the idiocy of everyday life while maintaining hope and belief and agnosticim all at the same time. Oh well, I'm rambling now.

Well stated.
Sixty years living with this phenomena and damned of I know what the hell it is all about.
I guess but I don't know.
 
Well stated.
Sixty years living with this phenomena and damned of I know what the hell it is all about.
I guess but I don't know.

And that's the rub is it not?
I feel to some extent it is much like when I was studying (anthropology) and reading about certain archeological sites and the tendency for researchers to call unknown buildings a "religious site".. the fact is they for the most part had absolutely no more idea what that buildings intended use was than you or I.
 
And that's the rub is it not?
I feel to some extent it is much like when I was studying (anthropology) and reading about certain archeological sites and the tendency for researchers to call unknown buildings a "religious site".. the fact is they for the most part had absolutely no more idea what that buildings intended use was than you or I.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!
Give this man a star!
 
my next door neighbor and her two daughters think aliens are coming to eat their heads. They swear by it because they saw the alien's "green death ray" in their yard and climbing up the side of their garage.... they called 911 emergency services and law enforcement came to their house to take a statement... then they came over to warn us about the aliens and omg i had to hold back my laughter because i was shining my 100mw green laser in their yard and on their garage...
Some things are NOT as they seem Posey.
 
T.O - I cannot argue that certain people have sullied the field for personal gain and that any such person should expect to be taken seriously etc
I am saying however that should someone wrongly choose to create a past that is not their own, then such an act does not preclude them doing any future honest work. Of course it is up to the book-buying public not to fund such people but the point is still true that while you cannot maybe trust that anything they do is honest, you can neither actually claim that everything they do is made up. As much as that might be the case, until proven as such no-one can give a blanket denial of everything they do.
It's like in court, everyone is tried on the evidence available for that crime. Only after do you get to find out if they had a previous record.

This is me talking here but say Mr Imbrogno, lies about quals and lies about military past. Ok, so he is a pathetic fraud. Granted and I am not sticking up for him at all. But when he was doing his paranormal research and he hears about a case and goes to investigate it. He may actually investigate it honestly. That is possible and until it is proven otherwise, no-one can stamp everything he does as dishonest. We can choose of course not to support him in anyway shape or form!
 
my next door neighbor and her two daughters think aliens are coming to eat their heads. They swear by it because they saw the alien's "green death ray" in their yard and climbing up the side of their garage.... they called 911 emergency services and law enforcement came to their house to take a statement... then they came over to warn us about the aliens and omg i had to hold back my laughter because i was shining my 100mw green laser in their yard and on their garage...
Some things are NOT as they seem Posey.

I totally agree with that statement.
The only problem with it is that it it a river that flows two ways at once uphill and downhill.
Br the way do you know you can go to prison for using your laser pointer like that?
That is dangerous and illegal.

 
my neighbors were not in the cockpit of an aircraft so in the real world i doubt i will be going to prison.
 
I can't, don't, and won't really speak for Imbrogno's sins that's between him and his God.

The issue Posey, isn't Imbrogno's, B.W.'s, Sitchin's, Lear's, Cooper's, (just to name a few) guilt before someone's god or another. It is an issue of human trust.

This is me talking here but say Mr Imbrogno, lies about quals and lies about military past. Ok, so he is a pathetic fraud. Granted and I am not sticking up for him at all. But when he was doing his paranormal research and he hears about a case and goes to investigate it. He may actually investigate it honestly. That is possible and until it is proven otherwise, no-one can stamp everything he does as dishonest. We can choose of course not to support him in anyway shape or form!

I'm really surprised you say something like that. It has been proven to be a fact that Imbrogno repeatedly lied about who he was, what he had done, and his paranormal research. He lied about his adventures in country during the Vietnam war doing his paranormal investigating. He related these tall tales on radio and in print. What more do you need? Just how do you tell difference between lies and truth? I'd say his mouth moving would be a major clue.

His possible turning out to be a liar does not make me one.

His possible turning out to be a liar? It is a proven fact. Google the fine article by Lance Moody, the threads here and at ATS.

My experiences have been on line for almost thirty years now, and they have never changed.
If what is said about him is true, then it is true about him, and has nothing to do with me.

I only mentioned Imbrogno in a long list of shady characters, hoaxers, and proven liars that have created the modern UFO myth and helped to make Ufology a laughing stock. The unwillingness of the UFO and Paranormal community to sweep out this type of trash is why we have far more UFO MYTH in print, film, and online than we do UFO truth.

I have never questioned your experiences here in the forum Posey. What I am doing is questioning your reasoning for embracing the tales of folks who have been proven to be frauds and hoaxers.

I am trying to talk about the difference between UFO myth and UFO truth and how the two are irrecoverably blurred by faulty thinking, a lack of accountability, and the overwhelming readiness of so many people to accept the word of people without checking the facts. Many of these people have been at this for decades without anyone checking their references to simply see if they are indeed who they claim to be.

The only way we will get any UFO truth in the media Posey is if we consistently reject the fantasy of these pretenders rather than perpetuate it. Taken or any other production dealing with this subject is a product of what gets accepted into the public's consciousness. We as the public need to be more discerning.

While other forums like those of Project Camelot and Project Avalon embrace the fantasy, ignore any fact checking that might contradict their accepted myths, and frown on holding anyone accountable, the Paracast forum has a history of doing just the opposite. I believe that is the ideal of the Paracast, the give everyone their opportunity to relate their experiences, ideas, and evidence, while holding them accountable at the same time.

It is all a question of standards. Standards of evidence. Standards about what can be accepted as reliable.

I've have changed my mind about a whole boatload of bogus UFO nonsense over the years. I'm making a more concentrated effort to reject the bullshit that has crept into my understanding of Ufology in general while trying to encourage others to do the same.
 
What is this "ufology" that folks here keep talking about. Is there a board of ufologist? A journal that is peered reviewed? an Ecclesiastical body that studies and searches for the ancient text and scriptures of ufology? Or are some of you just getting bent out of shape by tall tales and lights in the sky that are word of mouth? I have had and do have certain experiences that have proven "to me" that we are not simply a cosmic accident. But, I don't have scientific proof that would sway the most hardened atheist or the most fundi christian or muslim or buddist. But, at least there are some writers and researchers such as Sheldrake and bernard Haisch and Pin Von Lommel and others who do research. They have even published in peer reviewed journals. But, there is not enough scientific evidence between em to convince anybody else (including me) of a strict world view. Posey is saying (and I understand) that his experience leads him to his beliefs and no amount of woo woo charges can change that. Still, has Sitchen (I honestly don't know) ever published in a peer reviewed journal and honestly answered questions about his writing? This so called "ufology" that y'all talk about is mainly a circle jerk of extremes with not much actual questioning involved. On one side you have the people like the late Phil Klass types who will hunt down any study or work hard to debunk any research that is pro paranormal or ufo related. On the other side you have the Whitley Striebers who will trot out love light and new age babble to assure you the "visitors" are angelic or highly evolved and are inviting us into the glorious galatic brotherhood. The Christian view of L.A. Marzulli that says there are demons deceving mankind. The nuts and bolts like Freidman (do ya really think he's open to alternative explanations? Hmmm?) But, ufology. There ain't no such animal. Or if there is it's a messed up and schizophrenic little critter. :p
 
What is this "ufology" that folks here keep talking about. Is there a board of ufologist? A journal that is peered reviewed? ... But, ufology. There ain't no such animal. Or if there is it's a messed up and schizophrenic little critter. :p

You can call the search for the truth about UFO phenomena whatever you care to Steve. There have to be some standards applied to it. The flippant disregard for any sort of standards and the inability or unwillingness to separate fact from fantasy is why the subject is what it is in the public eye. I also suspect those same things are responsible for attracting so many confidence men and shady characters to the subjects' lecture circuit.
 
I don't disagree . I just don't see any way to bring it under an honest umbrella. But, maybe that will happen one day.

It has to be a personal thing. The individual has to recognize the nonsense and reject it. Enough people do that and it might not be so attractive a place for fraud, delusion, and fantasy.
 
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