The Myth Of The Myth Of Flying Saucers.

[Posey Gilbert]

The very valid idea that why can humans be disgusted with ET abducting and experimenting on them, when for a long time, humans have used animals for any and all purposes they can, regardless of the consequences to the animal. Without a doubt millions of times over, animals have been forcibly snatched and experimented on.
Regardless of where you stand exactly on the vivisection argument, there is absolutely no defending cosmetic testing on animals at all. That is purely for human vanity and an aspect that sickens me. I am still undecided regarding certain medical experimentation. But under no circumstances do I see justification for allowing animals to suffer pain. If it cannot be done pain-free, then it should not be done. Cancer cures and all.
And no-one can say 'but wait until cancer affects those you love'. Too late, already has, best friend and mother. Close as you can get. Both those people are against testing. But I digress.

I wonder, If we were to create a super-intelligent, dextrous robot (need not be A.I but can be) - and tasked that robot with finding cures for diseases that affect all mammals. Would that robot have any problems with animal testing? Probably not, unless it was already in it's programming make-up. Perhaps even if we told the robot that 50% of humans think it should not be done, it might well ignore that and continue, having placed the request for data above the feelings of half the population. The robot's decision could further be influenced if we were to tell it that there was a high risk of animal-rights people attacking the research establishment, with the inherent possiblity of losing all data acquired thus far permanently.

Like humans, the robot would need to weigh up many factor in coming to a decision. How similar to human morality would this process be? I mean, there are certain things in life that we instinctively feel, and need no thinking time to declare 'that's wrong'. Other things, we have to actually weigh the pros and cons before coming to a decision, often, in the case of medical ethics, a decision that can have far-reaching life or death consequences.

I posted earlier a few days back that I had just re-watched the TV series 'Taken' and had enjoyed it better second time, despite some grating annoyances.
Anyway, morality of ET is covered in the plot and at one point the ET defends the action of abductions, not be claiming that to them, they had done nothing wrong, but stating that a capacity for compassion was not in their make-up, a capacity for un-neccessary cruelty it must be said was also lacking. They just did not see things in those terms.

If alien abductions are real, and say that people are actually taken aboard craft, then I would imagine that once any experiments are concluded on an individual, it would be easier for ET to throw a human overboard, as it were, rather than take the time to return them to the site of the abduction, or thereabouts. It seems as if they make a conscious decision to return subjects to their lives, mentally damaged maybe but on the whole, intact.
Perhaps ET cannot understand psychological trauma and that is a reason why they see no reason to discontinue.
When the Nazis were conducting horrid medical experiments, I do not think they took the care to return subjects to some semblance of normality afterward. Indeed, if the subject were capable of returning to life, that was no doubt seen as just an opportunity to use them for further experiments. The others, well, it did not end well for them sadly.

So what can we make of this? That ET can have more compassion than humans? Granted, bad humans, but still - I've no doubt some experiments go easier if you do not care what happens to your subject. But the abductions I have heard about usually end in the human alive at the end. If the human is not to be used for follow-up experiments, then surely it takes an act of small compassion for ET not to just dump or kill them?

I am not for one minute justifying abductions. It is kidnap without the ransom, which is quite rightly a heinous crime with severe punishment in law. But a kidnapper who chooses to let a victim live is rightly treated a little more leniently than one who kills or allows death due to neglect.


Posey, quick one for you (and all). This thing about one's life flashing before your eyes in it's entirety when you think you are about to die. It happened to me once, but was cut short.
I have alwasy thought that the reason this flash of memory happens is that when your brain is confronted with inarguable evidence that it is about to cease funtioning permanently, in desperation it races through every piece of memory it can get access to in a short time, in an effort to try to find, however remote the possibility, something that will give it a way to live.

It is an act of utter desperation, of last resort, of low probability of success, but it's all the brain has left - one last look at the library of the mind, just in case there is a way out stored in distant memory.
I can picture my own mind, if I were hurtling to the ground with a reserve parachute that failed to open. I may have 90 seconds of absolute certainty that soon I will die. The brain would lose nothing by trying anything to find a way out. It has everything to gain and nothing to lose -hey, it may even be a plus, to go out having looked at some old memories, rather than be consumed by abject terror?

Here we have another whom feels about animals as I do.
As a kid I was a natural vegetarian I did not like meat it had nothing to do with where it came from I just did not like it.
But I'd rather not have to take the whipping that I'd get if I did not clean my plate.
I, like my siblings, was an anemic, the doctors' recommendation to my mother was to force us to eat meat even if it meant that she had to beat us.
Things were different in those so called "Happy Days."
Eventually I developed the taste for it and became a meat eater.
Still the fact is if I had to raise the animals that I eat they all would end up as pets and not food.
Both of my parents were raised on farms and loved animals but ended up having to slaughter the animals they raised so they knew this as away of life, and so they could not understand how their kids could come out this way.
As an adult for a while I became a vegetarian and the first thing you notice is the meat eaters smell like urine specially the beef eaters.
It is because of the uric acid in the meat.
Originally we were grass eaters before we were messed with.
That is what our appendix was for.
The Annunaki made us so we could only eat the foods "They" gave us.
Which is why we to this day we thank God for the food we eat.
The original man was the protectors of the animals and would free them from the Annunaki traps or spring the traps they found.

THE SIN OF THE GODS​

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As for your life flashing before your eyes been there done that too.

Excerpted from; The Attack Of The Window Peepers​

This is what I think I hated most about them, that they seem to have a relation ship with a part of me that I did not have myself.
It made me feel as if I was but a vessel for the information they wanted.
Just as no body asks a Pepsi bottle for its permission to drink its contents, I felt I was being treated the same way.
When this other part of me spoke to them it was always telepathic and it said things to them that I had no idea I knew for its insight was clear and uncluttered by emotions of embarrassment or shame.
It would say things that as a child I had no way of understanding but in the brief transference to them I was able to syphon bits and pieces of meaning from.
This was an overpowering thing for your mind would be flooded in reverse with things that you only understood during that moment but vanish once the flow ended.
This was completely the opposite of the way my mind operated in the regular world information entered your mind from the outside in.
Never from the inside out and never at such a high volume and velocity.
You did not just hear, but you saw, felt, experienced these things just as you did in the day to day world all with in the passing of a second or so.
This is what their eyes would do to you and why I hated to look into them.

Attack Of The Window Peepers​

I see all of you guys have thought through this phenomena and I find that much of what you all say I cannot, and do not really find fault with my only thing is that I want you to widen your vision.
These things though they are different looking than us are much like us on the inside.
A) There are those of us that would see a lost or an abandoned puppy and take it home clean it up and either keep it or take it to a No Kill shelter.
B) There are others that will see it and leave it alone and hope for the best for it.
C) Then there are those that would take it and abuse it and leave it, or take it to use it to train Pit Bulls to kill.
One thing about my encounters despite my traumas from them "The Guys" always bought me back home.
Mostly they have fallen between the A and B group, lucky me.
However I have met others that have met the C group.
Their encounter caused them emotional break downs, divorces, and in one case a mysterious death, and in another case a suicide.
This is why I tell the full story of my experiences.

"Half truths are whole lies" Posey Gilbert​

 

[Posey Gilbert]

Im often reminded of an uncomfortable truth Whitley Streiber once wrote about

He asked his visitors "what gives you the right to do this to me"

And the answer was

"The ability to do it"

Its as shocking in its simplicity as it is in its reality.

Mental constructs like morals or right and wrong are irrelevant

What gives the lion the right to take the lamb
What gives the big fish the right to take the smaller fish
What gives us the right to do the terrible things we do to each other, other species and the earth as a whole..........

There is a simplistic bottom denominator at play at all levels, and their answer, as uncomfortable as it may be to accept is a simple universal truth.
If you are looking for a first law of the universe, this could well be it.

Within this simple question and answer, is a profound if uncomfortable truth, and it lies at the core of reality

MOG!
You can't hear it but I am giving you a standing ovation.

 

[Posey Gilbert]

If we were to acknowledge that we were being used as laboratory material for another species it would be no different than realizing that you are a slave, no worse than a slave, a thing to manipulated by some other species that finds itself in a position to exploit you. It pains me to just write that. It a good thing for my sanity at any rate, that I do not believe that to be the case. These stories, these interpretations of these stories and experiences, are just that and are proof of nothing other than something is interacting with humanity. Whether that is some aspect of humanity or some indication of our positions in the universe's pecking order or something completely different remains to be seen.

Excerpt from: Sin Of The Gods​

To this day we are taught in churches mosques and temples that we should fear, obey, love and serve God and when God returns only those people with this mind set will be taken.
These teachings sound more like they came from a training manual for slaves.
Only if that God is of the Nibiru can I see why such requirements must be met in order that you be taken.

 

[Posey Gilbert]

If we were to acknowledge that we were being used as laboratory material for another species it would be no different than realizing that you are a slave, no worse than a slave, a thing to manipulated by some other species that finds itself in a position to exploit you. It pains me to just write that. It a good thing for my sanity at any rate, that I do not believe that to be the case. These stories, these interpretations of these stories and experiences, are just that and are proof of nothing other than something is interacting with humanity. Whether that is some aspect of humanity or some indication of our positions in the universe's pecking order or something completely different remains to be seen.

Let me play the devils advocate on this for just a minute. However, let me state from the outset that I am against vivisection. I am against cruelty to animals or any other creature. But, just to take a purely mechanistic look at it.

If indeed we are higher on the evolutionary scale then we are the most fit to continue. Therefore we have no reason to consider an inferior life form if we decide to butcher it, eat it, kill it, dispose of it. Likewise if we wander into the jungle and the lion eats us before we shoot it. Just natural selection and survival of the fittest. I don't "mourn" when I step on a cockroach. So, why should I mourn anything at all if it's simply a souless march to oblivion that all creatures great and small including us are heading toward. Really, why should or would I care at all?

Now, before I get jumped on I am again reminding you that I don't agree with what I wrote above. It's just that I question everything (which is why I call myself a true skeptic) That includes questioning my deepest beliefs, opinions and fears. I do consider that there may not be life after death. I do consider that I might have to "answer" a higher power for the way I have lived my life. I do consider that we may be nothing but meatbots. We may be spirits using earth suits. I have my beliefs and I do question everything. That may be why I tend to get into trouble when I talk to evangelical Christians and committed Atheist alike. But, I digress and don't want to hijack this thread so I will point back to the second paragraph. I apoligise for getting off subject.

Well said, and no apology needed, the same type of thinking has got me tossed out of more groups than I can count or name.
The important thingis that you are still “Thinking” and not caught up in “Believing.”

 

[trainedobserver]

And yet if you were to find yourself in the jungle unarmed stalked by a jaguar..........

Outrage though that may be to contemplate, there are scenarios where you are indeed helpless, lower in the pecking order.

Fall off a cruise ship in the deep ocean, and the tiger shark will own you.

What gives the shark to right to do so ?

Right has nothing to do with it, our sense of being top of the food chain is as irrelevant as it is wrong, ability to do unto you, is all the universe requires...................

Am i advocating a belly up response to this ? no im not.
But understanding/acknowledging the mechanism, is the first step to exploiting it to your advantage

The important thing is the course of action the situation causes you to take which I believe should stem from the attitude of not being content to be someone's or something's food, plaything, or experimental subject. Being bested and killed by anything from cancer to a wild animal is one thing, however having your species systematically abused by what by definition would be organized criminal vermin is quite the other. There just isn't any comparison in my view.

 

[trainedobserver]

Only if that God is of the Nibiru can I see why such requirements must be met in order that you be taken.

What causes you to give Zecharia Sitchin's Nibiru any credence at all in the light of the scholarly criticism by real credentialed linguists and astronomers? Why do you think Sitchin and his Nibiru story should be taken seriously?

 

[Posey Gilbert]

LOL i'm what we call a bush lawyer down under, and have actually won a few cases in court.

I do remember with uncanny clarity my own "experience" up until the moment i passed out in abject terror. The local mufon people have offered me hypnotic regression, but i declined.

I have 5 dogs as well, rottweilers. I remember thinking as i lay paralysed listening to something moving things around in the lounge at the end of the hallway, how did a burglar get upstairs.

Of course when it came down the hall and into the bedroom, i saw for myself it wasnt a burglar.

The dogs are no protection. on one occasion i found all of their night coats removed, but still done up. Its not possible to remove these garments without untying them first, but thats exactly what happened, all of them on the floor the fastening straps still tied in the bows i tied when i put them to bed. Occasionally one of them loses a coat during the night, but the fastenings are untied. on this occasion all were removed, but all were still tied with the bows i had tied the evening before. Its physically impossible to remove them in this state.
Its statistically unprecedented to have them all come off on a single night too.

The night "They" came to take me my dogs all lay in their places making those muted woofs as digs some times do, all the while they were scratching as if they were dreaming they were chasing something.
Once "They" got me too the park "They" made me think I was pursuing my dogs to make me go along and not fight with them.
I thought it had been a dream when I awoke in my bed but as I was walking through the park the next dat I found the markings their crafts had left in the lawn and the other lawns about the park.
This was the first time I was left with evidence that what I had been thinking had been a dream really had happened.
If you want to know the full story about what happened that night please read the full article "The Nonts" it's link is in this thread.
My case was investigated and verified by MUFON New York.

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Circles in the Park​

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The face of my abductors​

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The NYC MUFON Investigation​

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More info can be found at these links.​

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The Nonts​

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Skyroglyphics​

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The Rings In The Park​

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Sal's Article​

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[Goggs Mackay]

heaveeeeeeee..

 

[Posey Gilbert]

Hmmmm, still think that back engineering alien technology is a myth?​

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True it could be a hoax but this is what they look like when they go invisible.​

If they hoaxed this they had to have seen the real thing, as I have.​

OBTW:​

It is a generated field not a cloak.​

 

[trainedobserver]

Hmmmm, still think that back engineering alien technology is a myth?​

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Absolutely.​

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[Posey Gilbert]

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Absolutely.​

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Why?
I ask this not as a challenge to your opinion, but just for my own edification.
I wonder why you don't consider it a possibility?

 

[Posey Gilbert]

What causes you to give Zecharia Sitchin's Nibiru any credence at all in the light of the scholarly criticism by real credentialed linguists and astronomers? Why do you think Sitchin and his Nibiru story should be taken seriously?

What it is for me is that his interpretations answers all my questions while the others did not.
It's not just Zecharia Sitchins' work but the works of Eric VonDanicken, Immanuel Velikovsky, and Wilhelm Reich.
The same is always said about all new ideas by the established old heads who in the years gone by offered no answers and had nothing to say.
Time will tell.

 

[trainedobserver]

What it is for me is that his interpretations answers all my questions while the others did not.

But if his interpretations are complete fabrications with no basis in true archeology or linguistics you might as well take the answers for your questions from comic books.

What It's not just Zecharia Sitchins' work but the works of Eric VonDanicken, Immanuel Velikovsky, and Wilhelm Reich.
The same is always said about all new ideas by the established old heads who in the years gone by offered no answers and had nothing to say.
Time will tell.

The UFO MYTH is populated by the pseudo-science and pseudo-history creations of people like Sitchin, Von Daniken, and Velikovsky. Any serious investigation of these personalities and their theories will find a great deal of rational and scientifically supported opposition.

The lack of any real credentials, education, or recognition in the subjects they claim expertise in is a common element between these men. Surely you can appreciate the precarious nature of any argument that attempts to present their works as anything other than the speculative and unsupportable things that they are.

The UFO MYTH only serves to cloud and obscure any attempts at getting true UFO phenomena the serious consideration it deserves.

 

[trainedobserver]

Why?
I ask this not as a challenge to your opinion, but just for my own edification.
I wonder why you don't consider it a possibility?

Posey,

I explained all that in posts #19 and #26 of this thread. Please go back and read those two posts. I could not explain it better than I did there.

 

[Posey Gilbert]

Posey,

I explained all that in posts #19 and #26 of this thread. Please go back and read those two posts. I could not explain it better than I did there.

Have you ever thoroughly read any of these mens works?
They back up every thing they say with honest research that the Old Heads ignore, and then thoroughly misquoted.

 

[trainedobserver]

Have you ever thoroughly read any of these mens works?
They back up every thing they say with honest research that the Old Heads ignore, and then thoroughly misquoted.

Yes, I have read a good deal of it and I am familiar with the rest.

Have you read what professional, educated astronomers, historians, and linguists have to say about their works? I have done that as well. That is why I have to really question why anyone would put much credence in many of their theories, and in particular Zecharia Sitchin's.

When someone like Dr. Michael S. Heiser presents real evidence that Sitchin made clear mistranslations, misrepresentations, and engaged in flights of fancy, reason dictates we shouldn't ignore what they have to say about the reliability and reasonableness of accepting Sitchin as an authority on ancient languages.

The more I dig into the modern UFO Myth Posey, the more I am finding feet of clay everywhere I look. There is no foundation to most of it. Certainly when we look closely at the personalities claiming to be experts in ancient languages or archeology who aren't, I find more myth and fantasy than fact or even plausible theories.

The thing is this, you began this thread by decrying the lack of authenticity in Taken, yet you present the testimony of a known fraud like Butch Witkowski as supporting evidence for your argument for real experiences! What is wrong with that picture? Similarly, taking anything Sitchin said seriously is like thinking you can sift out some reliable data from the tales that frauds Philip Imbrogno or Butch Witkowski weave. It can't be done.

You are doing yourself a great disservice by associating yourself and the accounts of your experiences with these known frauds and their myths.

It certainly is all about Myth vs. Reality and Signal vs. Noise. Ufology can never progress beyond myth status until we stop recycling the pseudo-science and theories of frauds and hoaxers that permeates the field.

 

[Posey Gilbert]

Yes, I have read a good deal of it and I am familiar with the rest.

Have you read what professional, educated astronomers, historians, and linguists have to say about their works? I have done that as well. That is why I have to really question why anyone would put much credence in many of their theories, and in particular Zecharia Sitchin's.

When someone like Dr. Michael S. Heiser presents real evidence that Sitchin made clear mistranslations, misrepresentations, and engaged in flights of fancy, reason dictates we shouldn't ignore what they have to say about the reliability and reasonableness of accepting Sitchin as an authority on ancient languages.

The more I dig into the modern UFO Myth Posey, the more I am finding feet of clay everywhere I look. There is no foundation to most of it. Certainly when we look closely at the personalities claiming to be experts in ancient languages or archeology who aren't, I find more myth and fantasy than fact or even plausible theories.

The thing is this, you began this thread by decrying the lack of authenticity in Taken, yet you present the testimony of a known fraud like Butch Witkowski as supporting evidence for your argument for real experiences! What is wrong with that picture? Similarly, taking anything Sitchin said seriously is like thinking you can sift out some reliable data from the tales that frauds Philip Imbrogno or Butch Witkowski weave. It can't be done.

You are doing yourself a great disservice by associating yourself and the accounts of your experiences with these known frauds and their myths.

It certainly is all about Myth vs. Reality and Signal vs. Noise. Ufology can never progress beyond myth status until we stop recycling the pseudo-science and theories of frauds and hoaxers that permeates the field.

We are much alike in our reading.
I love science, archeology, paleontology, palynology, botany, biology, cosmology, psychology, law,
I never read fiction though I do like the movies, but don't want to waist my time reading these books when I could be reading more important, and far more interesting things.
You must understand as I have written elsewhere I was raised by my mother not to believe in fantasy or fiction of any type.
So if you would have known me before 1988 you would have known a different person.
Not that the things that I write about didn't happen,but I back then had looked at them through very different eyes those of my mothers' logical point of view.
All things paranormal were stories made up by people to make money or sell books.
Then in 1988 a woman filming nocturnal lights pass over her home taped an entity that I and my siblings called a Window Peeper and for years as I grew up I had confined to the realms of vivid dreams, nightmares, heat stroke, and imagination.
I am thankful Mom did, it helped me keep my sanity by thinking of my encounters that way.
But when I saw the entity on the that tape and it was the exact thing I'd seen as a child my "Weltanschauung" was shattered and began to crumble about me, and after my abduction in 1991 left actual tangible evidence I then realized it all had been real.
The shock that followed caused me a three year case if Bells Palsy.
Factually I never really got over it, even today any extreme of anger, sudden fear, or terror will cause my tongue to seize up, and the left side of my face to freeze, and my knees to buckle beneath me.
Far worse in the early nineties I discovered that my psyche may have shattered into three alternate personalities.
One of them is very dangerous when awakened it's name is Posey.
This would never have happened with simple nightmares or imaginings.
As far as it goes I did not get an interest in UFOs or the Paranormal from reading books, I experienced them first and actually was shocked to find there were books written about and by others that had seen and experienced to the letter things I thought up to then happened only to me and my siblings.
Years I learned from the mouth of my mother that she had all along knew exactly what I was talking was about, and that there was an oral history in my family on both sides going back about one hundred years about encounters with these things.
Today I guess she thought if she didn't talk about them they would go away.
My thoughts on these things are not derived from anything that I read from any of these authors.
Philip Imbrogno wrote about a sighting that I and my brother Ralph witnessed from my bedroom window, that being a Triangular UFO that hovered over the George Washington bridge, in Night Siege.
It was years later that a mutual friend told him about me and he then contacted me.
As for his lying about his military back ground, I remember a little while back in the eighties reading an article in Times magazine saying that it was OK to tweak your resume, but then that was when Reagan was in the White House, but then again I also saw one of their covers that said that the party drug cocaine was not addictive.
As far as it goes for Butch Witkowski he is not saying anything that Jacque Vallee hadn't said years ago.
As for Dr. Michael S. Heiser I heard his augments and was unimpressed, it did not seem that he read the works he criticized, so for him and Butch the jury is still out with me.
As for Taken my gripe was that the time should have been put on a real investigation into the UFO and Alien Abduction Phenomena, and not about the show itself.
Now for "The Rub", I have had sixty years of experience in this phenomena, and to hear those that openly say, "I've never seen a UFO or an alien!" turn around and call it a myth vexes me to no end,
.They've never seen my Grandpa Oliver Gilbert either, does that mean he is a myth?
Well I have never seen that place that they sing about, while wiping teary eyes, and shoot fire works off for every year either.
Hmm, guess America is a myth too.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Posey, I'm a little confused about one little point regarding your mother. You say she did not want you to believe in fiction. Is that not the whole point of fiction, that it is made up and not supposed to be believed in? It is just a kind of escapism like the movies. Something we do for enjoyment and a little of education (because even through fiction we can learn true things).

So I don't understand what your mother meant when she did not want you to 'believe' in fiction? No-one is supposed to 'believe' in fiction.

Unless of course she meant that she did not 'believe' that reading fiction was a good use of your time or maybe that she wanted to discourage escape into fantasy because maybe she knew about those parts of your life that were stranger than fiction anyway and she did not wish you to dwell on these things, lest they make you go mad!

 

[Posey Gilbert]

Posey, I'm a little confused about one little point regarding your mother. You say she did not want you to believe in fiction. Is that not the whole point of fiction, that it is made up and not supposed to be believed in? It is just a kind of escapism like the movies. Something we do for enjoyment and a little of education (because even through fiction we can learn true things).

So I don't understand what your mother meant when she did not want you to 'believe' in fiction? No-one is supposed to 'believe' in fiction.

Unless of course she meant that she did not 'believe' that reading fiction was a good use of your time or maybe that she wanted to discourage escape into fantasy because maybe she knew about those parts of your life that were stranger than fiction anyway and she did not wish you to dwell on these things, lest they make you go mad!

Excellent point.
And actually well thought through, but it was not just me it was all the kids.
It's my fault that you are confused sorry but I thought you may have red some of my other postings.
Mom did not prevent us from seeing or reading fiction or fantasy but she would read the TV Guide and sit with us and explain to us that what we were going to see, or the book she was going to read us was make believe or made up.
She did the same with westerns, gangster movies, war movies, monster pictures, Superman, the Wizard of Oz, The Three Stooges, Peter Pan, etcetera.
Because she did that when I had a nightmare where something I saw on TV or in the movie manifested, I'd just turn over and go back to sleep.
But none of the things that horrified me were from anything I'd seen on TV, or in The Movies, or even read about.
That's why they frightened me so, it was the things they would do or say to me.
Your nightmare cannot physically touch you.
These things could and they could manifest in the bright of day, pull you outside of time or manipulate it.
Plus that when I was forty she admitted she'd had encounters with some of the same things too, and not just her but other family members.
Back then they called them hints, spirits, ghost, devils, and demons.
Today they are called aliens and visitors, but they are the same damned things that my great great grands experienced.
My mother did us as her mother did her, and hers did her, back when they were growing up, and truthfully I am glad she did, although I still think it was wrong, it was done for all the right reasons.
They were taught not to talk about them, or they could be put away.
What Mom did was to keep us from leaping out a window with a towel around our neck thinking we'd be able to fly like superman.
Mom knew everything about my experiences because she allowed me to come to her and tell her about them.
"Just don't tell your father," she'd say, "he'll think your crazy."
However I later learned that his side of the family had dealt with the same things too.
These days you have grown up with Space rockets, jets, computers and all the wonderful stuff we got.
Remember I was just a generation or so from the horse and carriage era, and could not drink from certain water fountains, or go to certain schools when I was growing up.
Your reality these days is the fiction of my days.

Maybe this will help you understand how I was raised.​

THE ADUCTIONS OF POSEY GILBERT​

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[trainedobserver]

As far as it goes for Butch Witkowski he is not saying anything that Jacque Vallee hadn't said years ago.
As for Dr. Michael S. Heiser I heard his augments and was unimpressed, it did not seem that he read the works he criticized, so for him and Butch the jury is still out with me.

You are aware of that Butch Witkowski lied about his background and has a criminal record that includes fraud aren't you? Please read Been Had ... Again and the criminal records posted here in the forum. He has been proven to be a liar.

Why are you are unimpressed with Heiser I wonder? It couldn't be because he lacks the education, experience, or fails to demonstrate that he can back his translations up where Sitchin (or now his supporters) could not.

As for Taken my gripe was that the time should have been put on a real investigation into the UFO and Alien Abduction Phenomena, and not about the show itself.

Well, as I think I've been trying to point out here, what you present in this thread as real investigation into the UFO and Alien Abduction Phenomena includes known frauds and dubious debunked sources. As a work of fiction loosely based on current UFO myth, Taken couldn't have been any worse.

Now for "The Rub", I have had sixty years of experience in this phenomena, and to hear those that openly say, "I've never seen a UFO or an alien!" turn around and call it a myth vexes me to no end,

I want you to be aware Posey, that in bringing up the fallacious and mythical nature of Witkowski's and Sitchin's claims in this thread, I have not once questioned your encounter claims or the reality of UFOs in general. However, you seem to be lumping your experience with the tales of liars like Witkowski and validating it through the highly questionable pseudo-history of Sitchin. Why on Earth do you want to attempt to do that?

I personally would like to avoid being entangled in or adding to the UFO myth that is created by such people. I would rather get to the reality of the UFO phenomena. I know that I won't get there entertaining the UFO myth being generated by known frauds, hoaxers, fantasy writers and confidence men.

Separating Signal from Noise means being able to filter out the myth being promoted by various individuals and organizations to get to the real UFO phenomena. By definition that means we have to be discriminating and reject the noise.