The Official Paracast Political Thread! — Part Three

[Jeff Davis]

I'm glad you didn't perceive it.

That doesn't mean it's not there.

I just watched a billion dollar deal go down. That won't be manufactured in the US.

(It's even worse in Canada by the way)

Yeah, on TV, in a rerun of your favorite show. ROTFLMAO!!! What a looser.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

You're not answering my question. Which foreign car makes are inferior having moved to U.S. production?

According to Consumer Reports, the Kia Optima, most of which are built in Georgia for the U.S. market, has the highest possible reliability rating, which is much better than average.

And what billion dollar deal are you referring too?

 

[marduk]

Yeah, on TV, in a rerun of your favorite show. ROTFLMAO!!! What a looser.

Look, I wish everybody could have a nice, stable career. Even if they didn't have a fancy education.

If the world were a meritocracy and everybody got a decent living for working hard.

But that's not our world. Those manufacturing jobs for life aren't coming back.

And that's not necessarily a bad thing. There are better jobs.

 

[marduk]

You're not answering my question. Which foreign car makes are inferior having moved to U.S. production?

According to Consumer Reports, the Kia Optima, most of which are built in Georgia for the U.S. market, has the highest possible reliability rating, which is much better than average.

And what billion dollar deal are you referring too?

Not an expert on cars, this was an oilfield construction deal. Steel, upgrading equipment (vac towers, that kind of thing). Some offshore expansions in the North Sea. Highly engineered stuff.

One of the companies was a super major from Europe and another was a US midsize.

I'm being careful because I'm under NDA and it wasn't my deal, way above my pay grade.

 

[marduk]

I did find this Gene:

2016 U.S. Initial Quality Study (IQS)

• U.S. Domestic Automakers Show Strong Improvement: For just the second time in the 30-year history of the study, U.S. domestic brands collectively have lower problem levels than all their import counterparts combined. All three U.S. domestic automakers post year-over-year quality improvements. The “Detroit Three” achieve a combined average of 103 PP100, improving 10% from 2015, which is double the improvement rate of the import brands at 106 PP100. The last time U.S. domestic brands outpaced imports was in 2010, when they held a 1 PP100 advantage (108 PP100 vs. 109 PP100, respectively).

Encouraging, but 2 times in 30 years is not a stellar track record.

 

[SRL+]

The only word for it as far as you're concerned S.R.L. is "clueless". You or @marduk rarely ever have a clue what you're going on about. You can't seem to comprehend basic English, so I am imagining that neither of you speaks English as a first language. I seriously doubt that there is a debatable subject that I wouldn't completely annihilate you within. You're just too predictable, brainwashed, and gullible.

Nearly every new US vehicle exhibits a percentage of foreign parts. These parts, whether created in North America or overseas must meet standards of US automakers. Which means these parts are tested and certified to the satisfaction of engineers of various US automakers. Your argument is bogus on its face, as it makes absolutely no difference where the part is created whether OEM, aftermarket, or, otherwise. Furthermore, every US automaker has taken into consideration obsolescence in knowing approximately when any given part may fail. It is built into the design as planned obsolescence. The replacement parts are manufactured to meet or exceed the same specifications per planned obsolescence. US automakers in a rush to compete occasionally fail in the engineering and production phases resulting in recalls.

As you twaddle on about the USA and their superior parts manufacturing, that is but a dream of days past.

Get over it Jeffy …

Why does it seem like everything around here is centered on Jeffy's needs?

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Not an expert on cars, this was an oilfield construction deal. Steel, upgrading equipment (vac towers, that kind of thing). Some offshore expansions in the North Sea. Highly engineered stuff.

One of the companies was a super major from Europe and another was a US midsize.

I'm being careful because I'm under NDA and it wasn't my deal, way above my pay grade.

OK, so you are making a very restricted observation about a very specific industry. So that shouldn't apply to all or most U.S. manufacturing.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Nearly every new US vehicle exhibits a percentage of foreign parts. These parts, whether created in North America or overseas must meet standards of US automakers. Which means these parts are tested and certified to the satisfaction of engineers of various US automakers. Your argument is bogus on its face, as it makes absolutely no difference where the part is created whether OEM, aftermarket, or, otherwise. Furthermore, every US automaker has taken into consideration obsolescence in knowing approximately when any given part may fail. It is built into the design as planned obsolescence. The replacement parts are manufactured to meet or exceed the same specifications per planned obsolescence. US automakers in a rush to compete occasionally fail in the engineering and production phases resulting in recalls.

As you twaddle on about the USA and their superior parts manufacturing, that is but a dream of days past.

Get over it Jeffy …

Why does it seem like everything around here is centered on Jeffy's needs?

Interesting to note that some U.S. built cars for foreign makers have more domestic content than some "real American" brands. You can see this on the new car stickers. Domestic content of a Honda Accord is one example.

 

[SRL+]

So, who's to say as the quality increases,or, decreases that it isn't also reflected in the parts manufactures who contribute to US automakers that reside outside of the US?

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Well, Asian cars generally get better reliability ratings than American or German brands. But wherever the plants are located, companies have standards for quality control that dictate the reliability of the final product. But if you buy a car that's an all-new design, or built at a factory that only recently opened, you can probably expect more defects.

 

[SRL+]

Once owning a new Jeep created with parts from both Canada and the US, seemingly the US parts failed just as they had been predicted to via poor engineering/quality control.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Once owning a new Jeep created with parts from both Canada and the US, seemingly the US parts failed just as they had been predicted to via poor engineering/quality control.

Because Fiat/Chrysler traditionally has had poor quality control. It's the manufacturer's standards, not the location of the factory.

 

[SRL+]

That's absolutely correct. Jeep's engineering dept. decided that Fiat standard transmissions would stand up to the demands of what Jeep has been known for. Although, having one manual transmission fail @ 110,000 mi. the second failed @ 180,000 mi. Using my extended warranty they were replaced at no charge. However, I dumped it after that.

I take that back as I believe (?) they were both Aisin standard transmissions that sucked. They were also used in Fiats.., which also sucked.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

That's absolutely correct. Jeep's engineering dept. decided that Fiat standard transmissions would stand up to the demands of what Jeep has been known for. Although, having one manual transmission fail @ 110,000 mi. the second failed @ 180,000 mi. Using my extended warranty they were replaced at no charge. However, I dumped it after that.

And we all know about how Fiat fared when it first came to the U.S. — and left.

 

[matthew1977]

Obama Gets scolded by Russian news anchor

Russian TV Anchor Blasts Obama for Manspreading in Front of Trump

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[mike]

As far as the automotive industry and jobs are concerned, those jobs are gone. I remember reading many years ago about how a japanese plant had gone fully robotic.
The major cost saving aspect wasnt the wages of the assemblers, it was the overhead lighting on what was a 4 acre factory plant. The Robots work in the dark and thats where the money was saved.

Trump wont reboot the automotive industry, unless

He whacks a dirty great tariff on imported cars, to the extent that its cheaper to buy a hand assembled US built car that it is to buy a robot assembled import with a tariff on top

 

[mike]

Lights Out, Nobody Home
Because robots can operate unsupervised, they can produce items while people are not present. The ability to operate in the dark or in unheated environments can lead to substantial energy savings on the part of manufacturers.

‘‘If factories use robots, they can have lights out facilities,’‘ asserts Dick Johnson, General Manager of the material handling segment at FANUC Robotics America, Inc., Rochester Hills, Michigan. Johnson adds that robots can help save money on energy costs by decreasing the need to heat and cool a factory. ‘‘Robots are designed to work across a wide variety of temperature ranges, and are less fragile than human operators. There is less of a need to cool or warm a production plant,’‘ Johnson says.

Likewise, David Arceneaux, Business Development and Marketing Manager at Stäubli Robotics, Duncan, South Carolina, says robots require fewer utilities to perform their functions. ‘‘Robot can operate in dark environments, so there is no need for overhead lighting in fully automated work cells. If the same operation was done manually, there would be a need for overhead lighting and other facilities.’‘

Robotics Online

 

[SRL+]

Lights Out, Nobody Home
Because robots can operate unsupervised, they can produce items while people are not present. The ability to operate in the dark or in unheated environments can lead to substantial energy savings on the part of manufacturers.

‘‘If factories use robots, they can have lights out facilities,’‘ asserts Dick Johnson, General Manager of the material handling segment at FANUC Robotics America, Inc., Rochester Hills, Michigan. Johnson adds that robots can help save money on energy costs by decreasing the need to heat and cool a factory. ‘‘Robots are designed to work across a wide variety of temperature ranges, and are less fragile than human operators. There is less of a need to cool or warm a production plant,’‘ Johnson says.

Likewise, David Arceneaux, Business Development and Marketing Manager at Stäubli Robotics, Duncan, South Carolina, says robots require fewer utilities to perform their functions. ‘‘Robot can operate in dark environments, so there is no need for overhead lighting in fully automated work cells. If the same operation was done manually, there would be a need for overhead lighting and other facilities.’‘

Robotics Online

Rise of the Robotic Workforce - Harvard Political Review

“Many question the optimists who say that as many new jobs will be gained as will be lost from automation. In a Wall Street Journal essay from July 2014, former Secretary of the Treasury and Harvard University president Lawrence Summers warned of lasting structural unemployment due to robotic workers. “There are more sectors losing jobs than creating jobs. … If current trends continue, it could well be that a generation from now a quarter of middle-aged men will be out of work at any given moment,”

 

[mike]

Rise of the Robotic Workforce - Harvard Political Review

“Many question the optimists who say that as many new jobs will be gained as will be lost from automation. ”

And as those following my substrate independent thread know, this may be a perfectly natural part of our evolution, as we transition from physical real world labourers to digital consciousness.
In a post biological reality its what we can do with our minds that will count not what we can do with our hands

 

[Tyger]

Interesting conversation as today I did a new car purchase with a trade-in. Incidentally had a relevant conversation to the topic being discussed here.

The sales manager (from another country) talked about the location a car is assembled being important - actually impacting value. My trade-in was a VW (not part of the scandal) but he showed me how he could tell where the car was assembled. I already knew that the car had been assembled in Mexico - he showed me how he could confirm that - and indicated that the car had less value (according to him) because it had not been assembled in Germany. He had once owned a Mercedes (I think it was) that he knew was assembled in Germany, and he said the quality of the car was superior to others assembled elsewhere.

Then we shifted to Toyota and it's quality - he said he would only trust that car because all the cars were assembled in it's home country of Japan - by robots, as it happens. It's all mechanized - quality control is superb. So he said, but the quality somehow is connected to the country of Japan, in his view.

Interesting perspective and then to come in on this thread with the same topic. Kinda interesting.

Also, someone mentioned Trump's idea of a tariff. This will change the playing field substantially. I was interested to see that the Toyota dealership was doing a very brisk business (in my view). Another manager indicated that they expected to sell 100 cars tomorrow (Wednesday) and another 100 cars on Thanksgiving Day. Are people buying now because they are aware that once Trump gets in, good quality cars from abroad will be so pricey (because of Tariffs) as to be out of contention for purchase? Of course I don't know if the car-buying is usual or less or more. Guess there will be reports on that come January.

Anyway, all interesting.