The Roswell Slides Have Been Leaked Online

[Burnt State]

Shows how little I know about popular culture. I never heard of Andy Kaufman. I will not be rushing to see this film.

Re Lundberg and his cohorts, Burnt, you're quite misled and not by George. You clearly haven't done enough research into the history of crop circles in southern England to realize what happened there. George was present for all of it as a researcher. Whatever claptrap you might have read about 'ostension' on the Circlemakers website, the goal of these guys was not to "bring myth alive" by hoaxing cc but to undermine the belief systems of innumerable people there (and streaming there from other countries every summer for years) who found aesthetic and symbolic meaning in the circles, especially centered in sacred geometry. Lundberg et al also drove the physical scientists out of the crop circle fields (many coming to study the circles from other countries for several years) by a process of ridicule and propaganda as well as filling half the grain fields with hoaxes. The subject became so impossible to study that scientists could no longer obtain institutional funding to investigate it.

You think Lundberg would never "weaponize perception management" as Doty did? You'd have to learn about the history of the Circlemakers' activities in England over two decades (inside and outside the crop fields) to see that the hoaxing, propaganda, ridicule, and character assassination employed by them were very destructive weapons indeed. They crushed an entire subject matter expressing spiritual significance and presenting evidence of biological and mineralogical anomalies which was not their property to destroy. I have nothing but contempt for them, as does anyone who has researched this subject far enough.

Those are all perspectives after the disapppointing facts came out. Many people stood inside of human made circles meditated & claimed healing. People do love to live their myths rather quickly and quite willingly. You just have to provide the stage for them.mSay the people who were busy investigating the circles remained entirely unaware of team Satan and other active human circle making teams...then what? Mystical circles of healing continue again. The aesthetic symmetries found by circle believers would have found their bliss in any circle regardless of origin.

Many would call the BLT team's findings to be the real claptrap. While I understand some people may take that pseudo science very seriously I see no merit in it, as we've debated before, and as debated with previous pro-circle believers from almost two decades back.

I understand that the exposing of humans at work making circles for circle believers to be a sad moment in history. I do not share in those feelings at all.

 

[Constance]

Those are all perspectives after the disapppointing facts came out.

All which perspectives? If you'll be specific I can respond.

Many people stood inside of human made circles meditated & claimed healing. People do love to live their myths rather quickly and quite willingly. You just have to provide the stage for them.

You haven't heard of psychosomatic medicine and the effects of mind on the body?

Say the people who were busy investigating the circles remained entirely unaware of team Satan and other active human circle making teams...then what?

The Circlemakers organization made sure that the crop circle researchers were aware of their ability to hoax crop circles. Search out Robert Irving's [aka: fe3] public demonstration to cc researchers early in the 1990s.

Many would call the BLT team's findings to be the real claptrap.

Not anyone who has actually read Levengood's published research

While I understand some people may take that pseudo science very seriously I see no merit in it, as we've debated before, and as debated with previous pro-circle believers from almost two decades back.

A cheap comment, Burnt. Lots of chat boards talk a great a deal of uninformed shit.

I understand that the exposing of humans at work making cirles for circle believers to be a sad moment in history. I do not share in those feelings at all.

Now don't you waste any crocodile tears over this, Burnt. Read the long history during which researchers disputed many human-made crop circles as soon as they recognized the numerous tell-tale signs of their all-too-human origins. Hmm, I remember now that you warmed to Matt Williams's proclamation that "all crop circles are manmade" when he visited the Paracast -- a claim that would obviously be impossible to support with actual evidence from cc all over the planet and going back several hundred years in history. That's the power of memes, whether they make sense or not.

I also find it curiously inconsistent of you to question the power of mind over matter regarding reported healing experiences in crop circles given your oft-repeated declaration that "we create our own realities."

 

[Burnt State]

Now don't you waste any crocodile tears over this, Burnt. Read the long history during which researchers disputed many human-made crop circles as soon as they recognized the numerous tell-tale signs of their all-too-human origins. Hmm, I remember now that you warmed to Matt Williams's proclamation that "all crop circles are manmade" when he visited the Paracast -- a claim that would obviously be impossible to support with actual evidence from cc all over the planet and going back several hundred years in history. That's the power of memes, whether they make sense or not.

I also find it curiously inconsistent of you to question the power of mind over matter regarding reported healing experiences in crop circles given your oft-repeated declaration that "we create our own realities."

I'm not questioning where it is people choose to meditate, or find healing. In fact I was pointing out that the effects would be the same no matter which circle they're standing in so long as they believe that circle has unique value to them. It would be just another example of ostension at work, which it sounds like was not the agenda of all the circle makers. Some may have wanted to directly attack other people's belief systems whereas others were looking to support them. I just don't believe any of the elaborate patterned constructions in fields have any origins other than human ones, but that's me. Ruptured nodes aside, Crop Circle Science is on the same shelf as Leir's alien implants and is stored nearby the "Turkish alien video" mathematics and the salamander interpretations of the Roswell Slides by "experts" in the field, so to speak.

 

[Han]

Two wrongs don't make a right:

You don't need to hoax or trick the general public to demonstrate the power of belief.

Placebo and Nocebo are ancient concepts, yet they are more relevant to more people today than ever before.

Exploiting people for their money is wrong, and exploiting people for their belief is just as bad.

When people are tricked, they grab a hold for dear life when they find out, logic would say that they should let go and swim away, but instinct kicks in......

It is better to question why people believe what they believe, and to leave them room to maneuver themselves to a position of safety, rather than try to humiliate them, because ridicule will only make them dig in, and pretty soon you are back to square one.

Belief is a commodity and it is being traded, watch out for counterfeits cos the bank* won't be exchanging them for real ones.

I have just had a thought: what if the slide envelope or a note inside it said that the slides were taken in the mesa verde museum? then the search for the mummy would have been easy, and therefore the circumstances of it being returned would have been easily ascertained?

 

[Constance]

You don't need to hoax or trick the general public to demonstrate the power of belief.

Placebo and Nocebo are ancient concepts, yet they are more relevant to more people today than ever before.

Exploiting people for their money is wrong, and exploiting people for their belief is just as bad.

Very well said, Han. Manipulating other people's perceptions and ideas is destructive in itself. It crosses personal boundaries and violates the personal integrity of others, manipulating their minds. In the case of crop circle hoaxing in southern England the destruction went further, destroying the opportunity for continuing scientific research into the biological, mineralogical, and electromagnetic anomalies discovered and measured in many crop circles.

One of the most destructive effects of what the Circlemakers wrote and published online and posted in the CCCforum was to undermine others' confidence in the validity of their own perceptions, of the formations themselves and of the effects they experienced in them (both physical and spiritual). Once you destroy human beings' 'perceptual faith' in what they see and otherwise sense in the world, you also persuade them that they can place no confidence in their own interpretive abilities to think, to increasingly comprehend, and ultimately to understand the nature of reality. I saw dozens of people in the CCCforum who, under the pressure of the Circlemakers' rhetoric, could no longer think for themselves about their own experiences.

Curiously, Burnt reverts above to a faith in the objective, materialist conception of the world dominant in the physics of the last few hundred years. 'Curiously' because Burnt himself seems to be most interested in the hypothesis that ufos can be explained in psychological terms as intentional manipulations of human minds by unknown 'others' and through unexplainable (anomalous) means. One of the devices used by Circlemakers in discussions (usually bitter debates) about crop circles and ufos in the CCCforum was to ridicule all hypotheses not based on hard physical evidence. When hard physical evidence of biological, mineralogical, and electromagnetic anomalies was measured and analyzed in hundreds of crop circles and their plants, soil, and seeds and presented publicly by scientists and technicians, it became necessary to attempt to discredit that evidence and the specialists reporting it, using character assassination as the ultimate weapon.

Almost all of us participating in this forum come here out of a compelling interest in, or at least an abiding curiosity about, physical and mental/emotional/experiential anomalies. Given its reductive objectivist presuppositions, conventional science will not help us in our explorations of these anomalies. Fortunately there are scientists and scientific theorists working at the margins of the dominant paradigm who will, and they include biologists,ethologists, quantum theorists, em researchers, psychical researchers, and parapsychologists who do not work within the presupposition that everything that happens in the world can be explained objectively.

 

[PCarr]

Two wrongs don't make a right:

You don't need to hoax or trick the general public to demonstrate the power of belief.

Placebo and Nocebo are ancient concepts, yet they are more relevant to more people today than ever before.

Exploiting people for their money is wrong, and exploiting people for their belief is just as bad.

Yale Neurologist Steven Novella:

"A common belief is that the placebo effect is largely a “mind-over-matter effect,” but this is a misconception. There is no compelling evidence that the mind can create healing simply through will or belief. However, mood and belief can have a significant effect on the subjective perception of pain"​

 

[Burnt State]

Curiously, Burnt reverts above to a faith in the objective, materialist conception of the world dominant in the physics of the last few hundred years. 'Curiously' because Burnt himself seems to be most interested in the hypothesis that ufos can be explained in psychological terms as intentional manipulations of human minds by unknown 'others' and through unexplainable (anomalous) means.

ah, our favourite moment where you choose to define my belief systems for me. notice I never do that with you or make any claims to your own choices. and you persistently do misrepresent and often simplify my ideas about the poor ufo, so to clarify one more time: I think hardcore evidence belongs to singular cases that promote the validity of a technology operating in our atmosphere that is not human. encounters with similar types of objects seem to have a very profound effect on the witness and it can not be denied that the experience of the UFO, especially in proximity cases seems to be as internal an experience as it is external, and may in fact be even moreso depending on the case and the witness.

I do not believe that there is a manipulation of our minds to see things by an external agent so much as our own minds may determine what is being seen based on a history of limited mental imagery and an inability to comprehend the nature of the stimulus that is referred to as the UFO. While I don't see it beyond reason that there is a potential for an external stimulus or life form to consciously manipulate our minds I do not personally favour that explanation and feel that more often than not the thing we call a UFO may be split between many possibilities and potentials including specific external agents that are trying to manipulate situations, or our experience may be completely a function of our own sensory apparatus unable to entirely comprehend what is taking place due to the nature of a very unique and entirely misunderstood stimulus.

there's more regarding the deconstructive nature of the experience and our relationship to narrative but I at least would like to qualify my perspective that much.

lmost all of us participating in this forum come here out of a compelling interest in, or at least an abiding curiosity about, physical and mental/emotional/experiential anomalies. Given its reductive objectivist presuppositions, conventional science will not help us in our explorations of these anomalies. Fortunately there are scientists and scientific theorists working at the margins of the dominant paradigm who will, and they include biologists,ethologists, quantum theorists, em researchers, psychical researchers, and parapsychologists who do not work within the presupposition that everything that happens in the world can be explained objectively.

yes, I do agree with all of that.

 

[Constance]

I think hardcore evidence belongs to singular cases that promote the validity of a technology operating in our atmosphere that is not human.

So the ETH, and the numerous cases that support it, are not so bad after all?
Good to hear it.

 

[Burnt State]

So the ETH, and the numerous cases that support it, are not so bad after all?
Good to hear it.

Now, Constance, let's not leap to any radical conclusions. On the face of it the ETH makes no sense, especially not in how consistent an effort the phenomenon has been putting forth to convince us they are in fact visiting aliens from the galactic neighbourhood.

But I will admit that Eric Wargo has created a very plausible ETH variant that has some good merit and sense to it. Let's see how viral his strain gets or if it remains too complex and improbable, though his math certainy provides some possibilities for his cause. But then that's the problem with talking about Type III civilizations - they can wave their magic wand of total power and make anything possible. Almost makes talking about it rather futile.

 

[Han]

Yale Neurologist Steven Novella:

"A common belief is that the placebo effect is largely a “mind-over-matter effect,” but this is a misconception. There is no compelling evidence that the mind can create healing simply through will or belief. However, mood and belief can have a significant effect on the subjective perception of pain"​

It depends how you define "medicine", if you think of it as just the "pills" a doctor prescribes then maybe nocebo and placebo were the wrong choice of words, however I believe that we "self medicate" especially in terms of emotional pain.
For example when I am hungry my stomach hurts until I eat, If I am thirsty my throat hurts till I drink etc. But the same is true when it comes to the pain of missing some one I care about, if they are dead then I prefer to "believe" that they are in heaven, however unrealistic or unprovable it is, logic and reason are a small price to pay for the comfort of "hope".

The point I was trying to make is that what we believe has a huge impact on everything we do, it works both for good and bad, I would usually site some example from history to support my point, but I will use tomorrows news, when you watch it take a note of the wicked things that people do to each other on the basis of "belief".

There is one incredibly common misconception and that is: that our brains and bodies are like computers or machines when in reality it is the other way around. Computers and machinery are based on us and animals.

Just as with a malicious instruction to the computer can cause hardware failure, so can malicious instructions to the brain cause physical consequences.

We are natural programmers and we apply it to everything around us. (agriculture, domestication of animals and teaching our children for example) But having this innate ability comes with a responsibility, or at least it should.

Things like the Roswell slides are not only designed to take peoples money, they have a deeper impact than that.
Let us look at what is being proposed:

Let's exhume the body of a child, so we can find out whether (a) He is an extraterrestrial (b) was an occupant of a flying saucer.

The evidence for "our" belief that he crashed at Roswell is: two badly taken slides of dubious origin, and that "they"* have suppressed, hidden or destroyed the evidence. "Our" two spokespeople are the very trustworthy J Maussan and LMH.

The reality is that even if the records and photographs or even the actual body were located: "they"* would be accused of a coverup.

People didn't get to this position by accident, what they believe about the "they"* makes it "logical" and reasonable in their minds.
This include parents who would be deeply hurt and offended by the same scenario, if it was applied to their own children.

One final point is: My understanding is that the Mummy in question was looted from Mesa Verde, it was not discovered by trained professionals, so no proper records or supporting evidence was taken when the Mummy was in situ, it was then taken to a domestic location and would therefore be exposed to contaminants. It is far from an ideal source for getting accurate information.

Why don't they propose excavating the entire Mesa to find another more pristine ET? they could fund it with the proceeds of Bewitness?


*The government/MIB/disinformation agents/NWO/illuminati/reptilians etc etc

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Chris Rutkowski (a class act always) posted the following link in Facebook. It's an article that really puts everything relevant together in one easily digestible package:

Analysis of the “Roswell Slides” (FAQ) | Nabbed!

 

[Han]

"A statement from Tara Travis, Ph.D., Supervisory Museum Curator, Mesa Verde National Park and Yucca House National Monument:


Recently we’ve received inquiries based on internet reports* concerning the ancient remains of a human child which used to be on display in the Chapin Mesa Archeological Museum. We consulted with our National Park Service colleagues, who gave us this guidance: Out of respect for this child and his/her family, it was taken off public display many years ago. Although it was common practice in the past to display human remains in museums, we now try to treat them with the same respect we give to our own family members who have passed away.


There are many historical reports in the public domain of human remains that were recovered from various archeological sites in the Southwest in the early years. Interested readers can research authors like Dr. Jesse Walter Fewkes of the Smithsonian Institution and Gustav Nordenskiold. It’s important to remember that, regardless of how the remains were treated at the time of recovery, each was someone’s parent, child, and/or sibling. All should be treated with respect."

I hope that this ends the matter once and for all, unless some kind of lawsuit is taken against the hoaxers.

More great work from the RSRG in contacting the proper experts, it will be interesting to see the reaction from JM, LMH & co where will the grand conspiracy bus park up next? Clinton was interested in UFO's maybe that is why he implemented the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (NAGPRA) to hide the bodies from Roswell etc........................



*This is the only part I disagree with, it's not the internet's fault, those "reports" came from people who used the internet to spread their lies. But to be fair, I think she was trying to be polite to the more tinfoily among us. as in: "internet reports" = "conspiracy theories" of crackpots with a Roswellian persuasion.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

People are still going to say it isn't a mummy and that this is part of the conspiracy.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

As long as there's a chance to receive some residual fame and fortune from this sorry mess.

 

[Wade]

Clinton was interested in UFO's maybe that is why he implemented the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (NAGPRA) to hide the bodies from Roswell etc........................

Take care Harry, you're sailing in treacherous waters here. You know what happens to people who get too nosy.

 

[Constance]

Chris Rutkowski (a class act always) posted the following link in Facebook. It's an article that really puts everything relevant together in one easily digestible package:

Analysis of the “Roswell Slides” (FAQ) | Nabbed!

Thanks for that link, Gene. Already in the first paragraph there we are provided with considerable food for thought:

"“Cat” (or “Cathy”) claims that she found a box of about 400 Kodachrome slides while cleaning out a house in preparation for an estate sale near Sedona, Arizona in 1998. She kept the box in her garage until she noticed the two slides (#9 and #11) of a strange body around 2008. They were “wrapped and hidden under the rest of the slides”. She gave them to her brother, who gave them to his friend Adam Dew in 2012. The co-owners of the slides created the company Slidebox Media LLC in 2013 to produce the documentary “Kodachrome”.

It would be good to know what happened between the time in 2008 when Cathy first saw and became somewhat shocked by the two slides and the unspecified point in time when she "gave them to her brother, who gave them to his friend Adam Dew in 2012." That's a total of seven (7) years between the discovery of the slides, the formation of the Slidebox Media company owned by Cathy's brother and Dew in 2013, and the investigation by ufo researchers Dew contacted, leading to the presentation in Mexico City a month ago. Plenty of time for who knows what kinds of information-gathering and planning before the Roswell researchers Carey and Schmitt ever became involved.

The question arises: what did Cathy's brother and Adam Dew know, and when did they know it, and who else might they have colluded with before founding the company intended to produce a documentary about the so-called 'Roswell slides'? We're not likely to have answers to any of this until the documentary itself is released, and the documentary might surprise all of us.

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

Thanks for that link, Gene. Already in the first paragraph there we are provided with considerable food for thought:

"“Cat” (or “Cathy”) claims that she found a box of about 400 Kodachrome slides while cleaning out a house in preparation for an estate sale near Sedona, Arizona in 1998. She kept the box in her garage until she noticed the two slides (#9 and #11) of a strange body around 2008. They were “wrapped and hidden under the rest of the slides”. She gave them to her brother, who gave them to his friend Adam Dew in 2012. The co-owners of the slides created the company Slidebox Media LLC in 2013 to produce the documentary “Kodachrome”.

It would be good to know what happened between the time in 2008 when Cathy first saw and became somewhat shocked by the two slides and the unspecific time when she "gave them to her brother, who gave them to his friend Adam Dew in 2012." That's a total of seven (7) years between the discovery of the slides, the formation of the Slidebox Media company owned by Cathy's brother and Dew in 2013, and the investigation by ufo researchers Dew contacted, leading to the presentation in Mexico City a month ago. Plenty of time for who knows what kinds of information-gathering and planning before the Roswell researchers Carey and Schmitt ever became involved.

The question arises: what did Cathy's brother and Adam Dew know, and when did they know it, and who else might they have colluded with before founding the company intended to produce a documentary about the so-called 'Roswell slides'? We're not likely to have answers to any of this until the documentary itself is released, and the documentary might surprise all of us.

I listened to Fade to Black Podcast with Carey and Smidtt last night and they claimed they were looking for Adam Dew right now. Implying he's not responding to them or closed shop? The podcast also displaying either dishonest or bag over head thinking by both of them as though they flat out deny the debluring process or refuse to watch how it worked. I would have been more interested in what they were saying if they'd acknowledge where they've made mistakes, honored the recent discoveries , etc. It wouldn't bother me that they show a bunch of scientist the slides, but they seem to not get where they jumped the gun on the Live show. They didn't sound like they were part of a planned hoax, nor did Jaime. LoL, I keep thinking about what George said and it's eerily fitting.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

As if they'd say, "sorry folks, it was all in good fun, have a nice day." But we can't stop talking about them, so maybe there's something in that.

 

[Constance]

Rutkowski links to the online site now called "The Face of Roswell." On its primary page, linked below, are the written statements of the scientists who evaluated the nature of the remains of the body in the two slides to the extent possible on the basis of these photographic images. Most of what we want to read remains untranslated into English (and the limited amount that is translated is clearly not competently translated). Almost any university in the US, Mexico, or elsewhere employs academics capable of performing competent translations of technical material from Spanish into English. There's no excuse for the failure to obtain and provide the translations needed by speakers of English and other languages after an entire month.

The Face of Roswell

 

[Constance]

I listened to Fade to Black Podcast with Carey and Smidtt last night and they claimed they were looking for Adam Dew right now. Implying he's not responding to them or closed shop?

Carey, Schmitt, and Mausson have solid grounds for a lawsuit against Dew and his silent partner. Fortunately Mausson can afford to pay the retainer and further expenses of a law firm that will pursue and argue the case. I hope this needed lawsuit goes forward. It is the only way we will ever know what happened to produce the vexed situation we've been discussing since the Mexico City event.

The podcast also displaying either dishonest or bag over head thinking by both of them as though they flat out deny the debluring process or refuse to watch how it worked. I would have been more interested in what they were saying if they'd acknowledge where they've made mistakes, honored the recent discoveries , etc. It wouldn't bother me that they show a bunch of scientist the slides, but they seem to not get where they jumped the gun on the Live show.

I'm not sure that 'dishonesty' can be alleged concerning Carey and Schmitt, or even Mausson. Bringing forward a fake or a hoax is rationally incommensurable with the motivated research undertaken for decades by all three. It's entirely possible that they were set up by Dew, his silent partner, and others interested in discrediting the value of pursuing Roswell research.

They didn't sound like they were part of a planned hoax, nor did Jaime.

There is actually no evidence that they were part of a planned hoax, only a lot of emotional over-reactions to the May 5 presentations already motivated by long demonstrated animus toward those who continue to research the Roswell case, and behind that a desire to reduce the Roswell event to a 'myth'.

LoL, I keep thinking about what George said and it's eerily fitting.

I agree. Only time, and a vigorously pursued lawsuit, will tell.