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The Roswell Slides Steal the Show!

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Marcel never, ever said it was a flying saucer.

Really? When Friedman came to LA in '78, he was told Marcel had handled flying saucer pieces. In any event, if the material was extraordinarily exotic, unlike anything ever produced on Earth, an ET origin is a reasonable inference.

As for the issue of Marcel being able to identify the the exact same configuration and equipment deployed during the Mogul program(which he was not a part of), I've always wanted to hear more discussion on this topic. The Mogul system wasn't your typical weather balloon array; it consisted of a dozen or more balloons with radar reflectors and sonobuoys and god knows what else(I suspect there may have been more to the Mogul system than was disclosed) A crash of a Mogul array would have been quite a sight, with a lot of debris, and like Marcel said, it was not a weather balloon.

Gimme a break...Quite apart from the fact that mogul was composed of mundane material, which was easily recognizable, and didn't have exotic properties, researchers have long shown that no mogul array could've come down at the Foster ranch. NYU #4 was cancelled and the others are accounted for.
 
I do admit I'm not an expert on the topic, I've just been following the developments in the Roswell story for the past twenty-five years or so. All I have is my own opinion, and my own opinion is this: in the standard Roswell conspiracy dogma, for bodies to exist one pretty much has to accept the idea of a second, or even third crash site. Over the years, as I've gotten a chance to review the original newspaper reports from that time, as well as the later interviews with Jesse Marcel and others, I don't see the evidence for a second crash site.

There is evidence. As I wrote before, surviving witnesses may be second or third hand but they're still good and the number is fairly impressive. An investigation shouldn't be limited to the original newspaper story or Marcel. (Plenty of witnesses were silenced at the time and only felt free to talk later--if they were still alive.) Marcel may not have been involved with the second site, or he could've been part of a possible diversion effort, mentioned by Haut, to cloak it.

All I see is proof of some debris, whether it be a bunch of radar reflectors, an experimental kite, or just some trash somebody dumped in the desert. Sorry.

The debris was awful strange and, as the experts have shown, every prosaic explanation has been eliminated.
 
That has always been a curious aspect of the Roswell incident. Why any type of "weather balloon/project" would command such a military response.
 
It has been a long time since I was up to speed on all this, but didn’t Brazel bring some debris into town to show the papers and the AAF? Brazel, who had collected the reward for at least one weather balloon in the past? Then you have the people in charge of the only air base in the world with nuclear bombs sending balloon debris on to Texas. Some of whom became generals later on. Ballocks!
 
Just saying this could be government's way of discrediting UFO sighting by throwing out red herrings. That's what I'm saying the Boyd Buschman affair was - a red herring created by the government to make people think any release of an alien photo is hogwash, so when the real photos are released by Carey and Schmidtt maybe people won't believe them. That is, if the photos held by Carey and Schmidtt are even real.


I doubt the government would allow any genuine photos to fall into nongovernment hands. If any did, they'd confiscate them. Red herrings are just to make the whole subject look dumb, inasmuch as Roswell hasn't been debunked. If they can't disprove it, they can at least try to make the whole subject look silly.
 
It has been a long time since I was up to speed on all this, but didn’t Brazel bring some debris into town to show the papers and the AAF?

He showed it to the sheriff, who notified the AAF.

Brazel, who had collected the reward for at least one weather balloon in the past? Then you have the people in charge of the only air base in the world with nuclear bombs sending balloon debris on to Texas. Some of whom became generals later on. Ballocks!

Right. :)
 
He showed it to the sheriff, who notified the AAF.



Right. :)

From:
Roswell Daily Record
- July 9, 1947
Harassed Rancher who Located
'Saucer' Sorry He Told About It

W.W. Brazel, 48, Lincoln county rancher living 30 miles south east of Corona, today told his story of finding what the army at first described as a flying disk, but the publicity which attended his find caused him to add that if he ever found anything short of a bomb he sure wasn't going to say anything about it.
Brazel was brought here late yesterday by W.E. Whitmore, of radio station KGFL, had his picture taken and gave an interview to the Record and Jason Kellahin, sent here from the Albuquerque bureau of the Associated Press to cover the story. The picture he posed for was sent out over the AP telephoto wire sending machine specially set up in the Record office by R. D. Adair, AP wire chief sent here for the sole purpose of getting out the picture and that of sheriff George Wilcox, to whom Brazel originally gave the information of his find.
Brazel related that on June 14 he and 8-year-old son, Vernon were about 7 or 8 miles from the ranch house of the J.B. Foster ranch, which he operates, when they came upon a large area of bright wreckage made up on (sic) rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks.
At the time Brazel was in a hurry to get his round made and he did not pay much attenion to it. But he did remark about what he had seen and on July 4 he, his wife, Vernon, and a daughter Betty, age 14, went back to the spot and gathered up quite a bit of the debris.
The next day he first heard about the flying disks, and he wondered if what he had found might be the remnants of one of these.
Monday he came to town to sell some wool and while here he went to see sheriff George Wilcox and "whispered kinda confidential like" that he might have found a flying disk.
Wilcox got in touch with the Roswell Army Air Field and Maj. Jesse A. Marcel and a man in plain clothes accompanied him home, where they picked up the rest of the pieces of the "disk" and went to his home to try to reconstruct it.
According to Brazel they simply could not reconstruct it at all. They tried to make a kite out of it, but could not do that and could not find any way to put it back together so that it would fit.
Then Major Marcel brought it to Roswell and that was the last he heard of it until the story broke that he had found a flying disk.
Brazel said that he did not see it fall from the sky and did not see it before it was torn up, so he did not know the size or shape it might have been, but he thought it might have been about as large as a table top. The balloon which held it up, if that was how it worked, must have been about 12 feet long, he felt, measuring the distance by the size of the room in which he sat. The rubber was smoky gray in color and scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter.
When the debris was gathered up the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches thick, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds.
There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine and no sign of any propellors of any kind, although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil.
There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument, although there were letters on some of the parts. Considerable scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction.
No strings or wire were to be found but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used.
Brazel said that he had previously found two weather balloons on the ranch, but that what he found this time did not in any way resemble either of these.
"I am sure what I found was not any weather observation balloon," he said. "But if I find anything else besides a bomb they are going to have a hard time getting me to say anything about it."
 
I fully realize there were allegations that Brazel's testimony was coerced; some reports say he may have been in Army custody for up to several days. However, Brazel himself never recanted the interview, and in fact he refused to discuss the topic ever again. So all we are left with is his on-the-record testimony, which is an original document and in my opinion carries considerdable weight.
 
I fully realize there were allegations that Brazel's testimony was coerced; some reports say he may have been in Army custody for up to several days. However, Brazel himself never recanted the interview, and in fact he refused to discuss the topic ever again. So all we are left with is his on-the-record testimony, which is an original document and in my opinion carries considerdable weight.

Are you taking this newspaper article to be an "original document" that constitutes Brazel's "on-the-record testimony"? The only direct quotation from Brazel occurs at the end --

""I am sure what I found was not any weather observation balloon," he said. "But if I find anything else besides a bomb they are going to have a hard time getting me to say anything about it."

and the rest of it is a narrative written by <who knows who?>.
 
Im guessing it wont, the two parties may have decided to let the matter drop, But if as has been claimed the matter was refered to the FBI, then the potential is there for this to flare up again should they find the hacker and his/her identity is exposed.

Not if the hacker is discovered to be an operative of one of the other security agencies.

I won't second-guess Bragalia's decision to withdraw a lawsuit naming Reynolds and Ross Evans. At the same time, I think those individuals should consider themselves accountable for their activities in cooperation with the hacker and produce online a complete chronological record of their exchanges with the 'hacker'. Of course, that won't happen. In the circumstances, then, it's probably better for the health and relative peace of mind of the people directly involved to try to forget what happened here. But the rest of us shouldn't forget it. We should learn from it not to take every hostile internet blog post in this field seriously enough to draw premature conclusions from it concerning the character and intentions of credentialed and productive researchers.
 
Not if the hacker is discovered to be an operative of one of the other security agencies

Thats more than likely very true.

I was thinking more along the lines that the hacker turns out to be Reynolds or Evans

Earlier this month a formal criminal grievance was filed by me against Reynolds and Evans with the FBI’s Internet Complaint Center. It is hoped that an investigation will be launched by the agency with charges brought against them to include the impersonation of an FBI agent
.

Bragalia seems to have decided Reynolds is no longer the hacker and has buried the hatchet. If an investigation shows that he was indeed the hacker, then he may decide that deal is null and void

Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive
 
Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive
While certainly not the final say in the matter, that one line sums up a substantial portion of the tangled history of Ufology.

It's quite interesting actually, how the form and content of both Ufology and of UFO's tend to mostly operate from a place of deception
 
While certainly not the final say in the matter, that one line sums up a substantial portion of the tangled history of Ufology.

It's quite interesting actually, how the form and content of both Ufology and of UFO's tend to mostly operate from a place of deception

Theres a Vallee quote in there :)

But yes Deception seems to be a major element in this enigma. I often think asking questions about why that is , is a useful path to pursue
 
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