The Roswell Slides Steal the Show!

[CryptoGuru]

"Is a "spirit form" essential to explain aspects of the phenomenon? Holographic projections might explain much."

Yes "Spirit form" or "neu" that can influence another person's brain into feeling and believing what they are seeing is real is more superior way of travel than just projecting a Holographic image.

Most of the witnesses have actually physically felt objects and entities, something which Holographic projections cannot achieve.

 

[CryptoGuru]

"And what scientific research indicates a spirit form can do that?"

There have been some experiments on telepathy recently and more and more research is coming out of the closet and I would not be surprised if some scientist publishes a paper on something similar in the near future.

I have concluded my theory on my experience with the "neu" spiritual form through meditation and some research i did in the late 1980s on the physics of it.

 

[Burnt State]

Unless....(putting on my conspiracy-theory tinfoil hat)...it's a last-ditch effort. One could say there's been a consistent pattern over the years of "poisoning the media well" when it comes to UFO cases;

An amazing UFO sighting in the UK...then they send up some easily identifiable Chinese lanters.
A spectacular sighting of a UFO over a major american city...better get some planes in the air to drop some flares.
An impending release of photos showing alien bodies...time to find an old skunkworks engineer and feed him some pictures of a walmart alien. In other words, maybe the Buschman hoax was debunked a little too fast to get any media attention, and now the real story is picking up momentum and they're having trouble stopping it.

yes, there has definitely been some strong MIB styled manipulation using the media and messing with witnesses, but i still wonder what the actual motive is? the disclosure crew, of whom many also have a wide array of tinfoil hats, seem to be bent on the notion that all these governmental, 3 letter agency actions have been about hiding the UFO reality. i'm pretty doubtful on just how much of a UFO reality any of those bodies have a handle on. if anything there has been a grand obfuscation program for more pragmatic reasons related to cold war tactics, protecting experimental tech, and having a healthy screen to carry out other operations including experiments in and maintenance of social control.

but i take your point, there seems to be a simple loop of pointing out just how ridiculous the whole UFO piece is to the masses - but to what end, just to get us all to think a certain way?

 

[Flatwoods]

but i take your point, there seems to be a simple loop of pointing out just how ridiculous the whole UFO piece is to the masses - but to what end, just to get us all to think a certain way?

I wasn't trying to overanalyze it too much. Just saying this could be government's way of discrediting UFO sighting by throwing out red herrings. That's what I'm saying the Boyd Buschman affair was - a red herring created by the government to make people think any release of an alien photo is hogwash, so when the real photos are released by Carey and Schmidtt maybe people won't believe them. That is, if the photos held by Carey and Schmidtt are even real. Remember, this is tin-foil hat guy speaking right now.

 

[Burnt State]

And that would be getting us to think a certain way. Smoking pot, believing in UFO's, civil rights and feminism: in the eyes of TPTB these are all half baked ideas that need a good discrediting, all part of the ongoing puritanical, paranoid history of North America. "If people start to believe in those things everything might all go to hell." I do see those manipulations to be about social control issues. It also gives those in power more power.

 

[mike]

I came across an example recently that does illustrate the dynamic that might be at play here.
I say might because having read the testimonys of the various people involved im inclined to think Roswell did happen.

But thats only if those involved are telling the truth, they could all be part of a lie as part of a disinfo campaign, i have no proof either way.

But to illistrate how such a lie can work, i recently had a relative post of facebook, a link to a news article claiming chariot wheels and
the bones of horses had been discovered at the bottom of the Red Sea.

Being a believer, she touted this as "proof" of exodus and thus the bible.

Because it confirmed her beliefs, it was accepted without question.

But

snopes.com: Chariot Wheels Found at the Bottom of the Red Sea

Turns out she was wrong.

But it shows how easy it is for a "story" to become real just like that. Its something any Intel agency would know and be able to exploit

 

[Constance]

but i take your point, there seems to be a simple loop of pointing out just how ridiculous the whole UFO piece is to the masses - but to what end, just to get us all to think a certain way?

And which 'way' would that be? I'm not seeing much coherence in recent popular interpretations of what the disinformation agencies supposedly wanted us to think over the last 65 years and what they're attempting to persuade us of now, according to your interpretation. Then again, why expect coherent policy from agencies whose function has always been reactive, whose consistent purpose is to confuse the public about what is real and what is not real in a historicially developing world? The only mistake is to take seriously what those agencies put out in the first place.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

OK, this is getting sorta dirty in Roswell slide land.

Kevin Randle published a blog from Tony Bragalia (involved in the slides episode) at his Different Perspective blog, one that indicts fellow blogger Rich Reynolds as being, it seems, an instigator of an email hacking episode. So it's fair to say that Bragalia isn't going to post any more articles in Reynolds' blog (the latter has removed previous pieces from Bragalia).

In the following article, even Paul Kimball, once associated with The Paracast before he seemed to go off the rails for reasons I won't mention here, is singled out for what Bragalia regards as his alleged unseemly behavior:

A Different Perspective: Anthony Bragalia, the Roswell Slides and the UFO Community

 

[Flatwoods]

In his comments on various blogs, Bragalia makes it clear that arrangements are being made for a TV special, which means there's money involved.

A bad thing, in my opinion.

 

[Constance]

Who are Reynolds and Evans? Does anyone here know them? And can the hacker using the encryption service in Israel be identified? I'm glad that Tony Bragalia has involved the FBI and is suing these contemptible people. Also glad to hear that all of TB's work is preserved elsewhere and will be reinstated on a new website. What a shameful episode this has been. These people are trying to gut ufo research and deserve to be exposed and convicted for it.

 

[mike]

In his comments on various blogs, Bragalia makes it clear that arrangements are being made for a TV special, which means there's money involved.

A bad thing, in my opinion.

That could be a double edged sword though.

Imagine for a moment you had what you believed to be 100 percent proof smoking gun evidence.

How best to present it ?

You could do the UFO circuit, but you wont reach that many people. A lot of people in this genre want public disclosure ie they want the whole public to know.

Putting together a TV show for public broadcast, interviewing ex servicemen who were at Roswell who confirm whats in the slides is what they saw is a good way to do that.

Creating a total package that enhances the provinence seems sensible, they will have one shot at this it may as well be a good one

 

[Double Nought Spy]

The fake gummint agent sounds like something Bill Cooper would try to pull off, but he's dead. I've never liked Reynolds, but I'll be surprised if he's sleazy enough to be behind this latest load of crap. His behavior so far does not inspire confidence. If the FBI (the real one) takes an interest, somebody gonna wish they never heard of those slides.

 

[Frank Stalter]

Here's a link that raises plenty of doubts about the Haut affidavit: Haut Questions

As you can see, Haut didn't even write the affidavit himself. And besides... it doesn't lead anywhere. Nothing can verified from it, and for me that's a big red flag.

Another supposed testimony from Roswell is the well-known Barney Barnett story, in which the civil engineer reported seeing bodies at a second crash site not far from the Roswell site. It's one of my favorite Roswell stories. Barnett also reportedly said a group of archeology students from the University of Pennsylvania also came upon the scene and saw the bodies...before the Army showed up and chased them away.

Unfortunately, facts are facts, and in this case the Barnett story is entirely second-hand, told by his relatives and wasn't discovered by investigators until the late 1970's - nearly a decade after Barney Barnett died. An attempt to locate students or faculty from the archeological team also came empty, and there's never been any corroborating for anything in Barnett's tale which, as I stated before, is simply hearsay. Even Kevin Randle and Don Schmidtt consider the story lacking in credibility. But if someone wants to investigate further, I say go for it.

Like I said before, I enjoy crash-retrieval cases and would encourage anyone to look for more evidence. I do find it intriguing that the alleged " Roswell Slides" came from the home of a geologist who worked in the region during the same time period as the Roswell crash. What if the Barnett tale was re-told in error, and the alleged team of archeologists were in fact a geological survey team? That would be a very, very intriguing link, but again, it's just speculation until the slides are released and a provable link can be established. I know the difference between facts and speculation, and I prefer to believe in facts.

You haven't backed up the following claim in the slightest. There's a reason for that: you don't know what you're talking about.

The only first-hand witness reports surfaced decades later, but they've all been discredited.

 

[Burnt State]

From the end of Randle's blog post - worth repeating as it highlights what has caused the biggest problems and slow downs in UFO research, not the skeptic nor the gov't:

It bothers me to have written this piece. Such “drama” distracts from investigation. Every minute immersed in the ‘politics and personalities’ of UFOs is a minute taken away from conducting needed UFO research. Another thing learned: We have met the foe. And it is not the rabid skeptic nor even “the government” – it is us. We destabilize our efforts based on our own actions. Name-calling, in-fighting and jealousy only cheapens and discredits the UFO field. And resorting to illegal activities like hacking other researchers’ computers has the potential to destroy it entirely.

 

[Flatwoods]

You haven't backed up the following claim in the slightest. There's a reason for that: you don't know what you're talking about.

I do admit I'm not an expert on the topic, I've just been following the developments in the Roswell story for the past twenty-five years or so. All I have is my own opinion, and my own opinion is this: in the standard Roswell conspiracy dogma, for bodies to exist one pretty much has to accept the idea of a second, or even third crash site. Over the years, as I've gotten a chance to review the original newspaper reports from that time, as well as the later interviews with Jesse Marcel and others, I don't see the evidence for a second crash site. All I see is proof of some debris, whether it be a bunch of radar reflectors, an experimental kite, or just some trash somebody dumped in the desert. Sorry.

 

[Flatwoods]

That could be a double edged sword though.

Imagine for a moment you had what you believed to be 100 percent proof smoking gun evidence.

How best to present it ?

You could do the UFO circuit, but you wont reach that many people. A lot of people in this genre want public disclosure ie they want the whole public to know.

Putting together a TV show for public broadcast, interviewing ex servicemen who were at Roswell who confirm whats in the slides is what they saw is a good way to do that.

Creating a total package that enhances the provinence seems sensible, they will have one shot at this it may as well be a good one

I agree.

 

[Double Nought Spy]

Another thing the scoffers and balloon enthusiasts don't like to talk about is the fact that Marcel was a trained meteorologist. His son said in his book that he had recently completed some advanced training at the time of the Roswell events. The idea that he would drive out to the ranch and pick up a bunch of balloon debris thinking it was part of a flying saucer is ludicrous. Even if Mogul was classified (it was not), he would have recognized it immediately because he had been trained in its use and characteristics. The whole balloon thing is laughable. It's embarrassing, really.

 

[Flatwoods]

Another thing the scoffers and balloon enthusiasts don't like to talk about is the fact that Marcel was a trained meteorologist. His son said in his book that he had recently completed some advanced training at the time of the Roswell events. The idea that he would drive out to the ranch and pick up a bunch of balloon debris thinking it was part of a flying saucer is ludicrous. Even if Mogul was classified (it was not), he would have recognized it immediately because he had been trained in its use and characteristics. The whole balloon thing is laughable. It's embarrassing, really.

Marcel never, ever said it was a flying saucer. He said he didn't know what it was. As for the issue of Marcel being able to identify the the exact same configuration and equipment deployed during the Mogul program(which he was not a part of), I've always wanted to hear more discussion on this topic. The Mogul system wasn't your typical weather balloon array; it consisted of a dozen or more balloons with radar reflectors and sonobuoys and god knows what else(I suspect there may have been more to the Mogul system than was disclosed) A crash of a Mogul array would have been quite a sight, with a lot of debris, and like Marcel said, it was not a weather balloon.

 

[Double Nought Spy]

First off, if you are really concerned about evidence, then you'll know the Mogul flight was imaginary. But you might want to read Marcel Jr's book. It's really good. If you think Marcel would not have recognized a balloon of any configuration, you are delusional. Or maybe just willfully ignorant. Marcel knew all about Mogul. You might as well say he found wreckage from a jet plane and couldn't figure out what it was.

The balloon nonsense is stupid and the scoffers know it, but it's all they have.

 

[Constance]

From the end of Randle's blog post - worth repeating as it highlights what has caused the biggest problems and slow downs in UFO research, not the skeptic nor the gov't:

It bothers me to have written this piece. Such “drama” distracts from investigation. Every minute immersed in the ‘politics and personalities’ of UFOs is a minute taken away from conducting needed UFO research. Another thing learned: We have met the foe. And it is not the rabid skeptic nor even “the government” – it is us. We destabilize our efforts based on our own actions. Name-calling, in-fighting and jealousy only cheapens and discredits the UFO field. And resorting to illegal activities like hacking other researchers’ computers has the potential to destroy it entirely.

Actually that's the last paragraph of Tony Bragalia's letter.