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They don't want us to know

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Haha trained. Yes, we all must have a certain amount of ignorance in this crazy venture to understand what's going on in the field of UFOs because it's so damed hard to pin down and really know what's going on. By the way, great posts everyone. In fact as of working on reading this thread I went out to have a smoke and saw a UAP. Shiny polished metallic object, to fast for a balloon, to small for an airplane just cruising across and below a hazy chemically sprayed sky in broad daylight. My first daytime sighting. Who was it, what was it, where did it come from, where was it going? I have no clue.
 
goggsmackay said:
That makes sense to me. I suppose like many I am a materialist who can be swayed by various strengths of evidence of things non-material.

The only thing most of us on this forum dislike is the 'I am 100% correct' brigade. I am sometimes right, often wrong but always willing to change my mind when presented with new information. I will enjoy the debate in here with anyone as long as there is a bit of give and take.
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Aerial anomalies, the paranormal and philosophy make for strange bedfellows. According to western empirical materialist / reductionist science, these events cannot be measured, therefor do not exist. Well, apparently some of this stuff has occurred, and will occur, countering to the popular opinion of western science, and until the stamp of approval is applied by the “great ones.” When you say you’re a materialist, are you sure about that? Pointing out the fact in which this is a paranormal forum where the materialist contemplates aerial anomalies, and the paranormal is contradictory to an extent. Would you not find this thought agreeable? I would suggest that the vast majority of members are either idealists, or dualists. Otherwise they would most likely be elsewhere, such as James Randi’s website. As I agree with you by your comment, “ I am sometimes right, often wrong but always willing to change my mind when presented with new information”, as the pendulum of possible origins of phenomena have been entertained for centuries.
Once again, there is vastly more to ones philosophical disposition than can be summed up in a few paragraphs, as one can easily spend a lifetime defining and redefining their own.
 
trainedobserver said:
If they had any worry about the ramifications of nuclear war or nuclear contamination why did they allow 100s of nuclear weapons to be detonated over the years?
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Is it possible the test ban treaty, forbidding nuclear bombs in space and recent reductions in n-arsenals stemmed from alien threats secretly delivered to the government and backed up by demonstrations like Malmstrom? Seems far out, but who knows?

Why aren't they buzzing over Fukushima, etc., etc.
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It's the site of an accident, not something which may threaten them.
 
trainedobserver said:
A lot, if not all of what we think we know is most likely the result of a guided fantasy of sorts. Guided by the phenomena but more directly and purposefully by the United States military and associated agencies.
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Certainly a great deal about the phenomenon looks deceptive. But anyone who proposes the government is behind a guided fantasy should have some inkling of what it's about.
 
I say that it is only a guided fantasy if we let it be one. I agree though that for millions of people it is a guided fantasy either of government construct or self imposed.

I am past asking myself if something is out there and I am convinced based on the evidence and aside from all of the poo out there circulating around that they are out there.

I think we can be fairly certain then that IF part of my government or another government has become involved with "them" then we are at a definite disadvantage with regard to our standing with "them" based on their technology and abilities. If my government truly represents the people they should have asked us or our representatives before proceeding. If this has happened then they acted against a system that helped to foster their existence. A small sector of the government made decisions based on what a few people in an inner circle decided. Any disclosure now will bring this to light. If what several have said is true and "they" don't really need us or care what we are doing then what interest would such a group have in going to a government group and supposedly making a deal with them? It is certain that we can't get to them unless they allow that to happen. This is all mostly conjecture at this point IMO.

I never bought into the idea by some ufologists and lecturers that the religious people are too fragile to handle a revelation that there are other beings. I say get real, My God is big enough to do whatever He wants to do.If your God is that small maybe you need another one. The whole idea of keeping information from a group of people because they are too vulnerable in some way doesn't fly at all. Everyone I know likes the TRUTH no matter what it is. Finding other beings would neither confirm of refute any of my beliefs. For goodness sake the Vatican has embraced the possibility. I'm not Catholic, but I think they have at least that part right ;) It has also been said that the public at large can't handle such a disclosure. The human race tends to cope and deal with whatever comes up. The sooner it happens the better because we will develop a different way of looking at some things.

I think it is just as much a possibility that there isn't anything to show us because they don't know about it entirely or haven't gathered enough information. Or it's all a great big guided fantasy.As an example- Some say we have bases on Mars. Why are we sending curiosity there then? A 2.5 billion dollar front?Lots of contradictory info just about everywhere.

Another theory is that there is a great deception underway. And when you think about it if a race of beings show up and tell us something. How sure can we be that they are telling us the truth?According to this line of thinking the earth is being prepared, groomed for an event that will result in most of the population being fooled into believing in something that will eventually be the downfall most of mankind. This might seem hard to accept on the surface, but if intelligent beings show up with incredible powers and do a few "miracles" I could see a lot of people being hooked immediately. Especially if they offered a way out for many of our problems. In fact our current world economic situation is ripe for the picking and may have been manufactured to usher in such an event. All of those FEMA camps and underground tunnels are ready to take in vast numbers of people who don't go along with the new ways which are just the old ways dressed up to look pretty with a charasmatic leader. Remind you of anything?

Trainedobserver, I can't answer your questions about why some sightings are selective in regards to nuclear weapons installations compared to other nuclear events. I would love to meet the guy with that answer lol. There were actually sightings of unusual things after the Japan events. There were UFOs spotted during the fires in the midwest US. Most disasters including 911 and others report sighings around the times of these events and afterwards.

Some possibilities are that the ufos and their operators are functioning in several different capacities and that there are different groups of them. The "good" ones are there to protect and help when necessary but to generally stay out of the way and fight the "bad" ones who are there to make things worse. Both groups have resigned man mostly to his free will to make decisions because of the boundaries given to them. Since they are seen at both man made and natural disasters they seem to be playing some role in both. They were even spotted during the olympics.
 
ufology said:
S.R.I. Perhaps there is further understanding to be gained by examining the issues in the way that you propose, so let's apply it to the topic of this thread. For the sake of orientation we can assume that the "they" are those who know more about UFOs ( alien craft ) than we do and that they consist of two separate groups; the aliens and the powers that be ( PTB are generally construed as governmental agencies ). We have determined with reasonable certainty that the PTB have historically known things that the general public does not. Observations have also determined that UFOs ( alien craft ) behave evasively and do not engage in open extended contact or communication with our civilization. These two factors have led to the assumption that constitutes the topic of this thread "They Don't Want Us To Know". How do you suggest that we proceed from this point forward? Please pick a specific question to begin with, frame it in philosophical terms, and let's see if we get any further with it than we already are ( these factors taken together seem to imply boundaries ).
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Vallee tried to warn me about you. However on a more serious note I would suggest that you cannot get there from here in philosophical terms, viewed from the materialist / reductionist. The reason being is that the materialist / reductionist sees aerial anomalies, and the paranormal as pseudo science, and at the most, naturally occurring phenomena. As Stephen Hawking would put it “ a field filled with crackpots and loons.” And yes, Hawking and other bright scholars have entertained the idea of extraterrestrial visitation, but not seriously. However, you have first hand accounts of eye witnesses, select images, and trace evidence which is very difficult to dismiss. So what do you do, and where do you stand in philosophical terms? I would suggest at this moment you have stepped outside the box, and are now standing in the shoes of the dualist, or idealist. This is a realm where the reality in which we perceive, consciousness and matter are examined. This is the realm where the brightest scholars reside, questioning space and time, applying critical logic. I would once again suggest that your questions cannot be answered in philosophical terms, as I would quite possibly be cheating myself and the forum members. By the way, you do not have a clue of what I am speaking of, do you?
 
I think you make perfect sense here if I understand you correctly. I guess this wasn't directly addressed to me so pardon me if I'm butting in.
We have very definite limitations in this realm.
The old question regarding channelers/mediums - Why don't mediums predict the winning lotto numbers?
A medium by the very term means intermediary.Intermediary for what?
Like you say we are limited but the spirits have more flexibility. Mediums and channelers are tapping into the spirits power. The bad spirits don't know everything .They have limitations and agendas. Many mediums are fakes with nothing to tap into at all, but a few of them have familiar spirits that are outside the realm we live in.This seems to be a lot like a parasite/host situation.The host gets some benefit but IMO gets the short end of the bargain.
So I think there is some truth to a few of them having an inside track. What it cost them to get it wasn't worth it IMO.

Concerning the "them" Aliens can possibly be the same beings and likely are. Space brothers isn't the term I would use to describe them.
 
S.R.L. said:
Vallee tried to warn me about you. However on a more serious note I would suggest that you cannot get there from here in philosophical terms, viewed from the materialist / reductionist. The reason being is that the materialist / reductionist sees aerial anomalies, and the paranormal as pseudo science, and at the most, naturally occurring phenomena. As Stephen Hawking would put it “ a field filled with crackpots and loons.” And yes, Hawking and other bright scholars have entertained the idea of extraterrestrial visitation, but not seriously. However, you have first hand accounts of eye witnesses, select images, and trace evidence which is very difficult to dismiss. So what do you do, and where do you stand in philosophical terms? I would suggest at this moment you have stepped outside the box, and are now standing in the shoes of the duelist, or idealist. This is a realm where the reality in which we perceive, consciousness and matter are examined. This is the realm where the brightest scholars reside, questioning space and time, applying critical logic. I would once again suggest that your questions cannot be answered in philosophical terms, as I would quite possibly be cheating myself and the forum members. By the way, you do not have a clue of what I am speaking of, do you?
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You seem to be contradicting yourself. Your first post here reads, "These questions, statements, and opinions should be based in philosophical terms." Now you are saying, "I would once again suggest that your questions cannot be answered in philosophical terms." Why do you suggest framing these questions in philosophical terms if they cannot be answered in philosophical terms?

Once again, please pick a specific question to begin with, frame it in philosophical terms ( as you suggested in your initial post ), and let's see if we get any further with it than we already are ( these factors taken together seem to imply boundaries ). I'll try to help by posing the questions based on the thread title:

Title: They Don't Want Us to Know.

Q. Who are "they"?
Q. Who are "us"?
Q. Why do we make the presumption they don't they want us to know?
Q. What don't they want us to know ( in general terms )?
Q. What are the boundaries that are preventing us from knowing?
Q. How might we circumvent these boundaries?

These questions are open for everyone!
 
I think as long as we attempt to hammer the UFO phenomenon into known and established concepts created by culture (religion, tradition, folklore, and fiction) we are going to fall short. It is no more about "spirits", "fallen angels", or "demons" than it is about little green men or extraterrestrial scientists on a field trip.
 
It's never been about the public being unable to handle the news that ET exists and is here now.

It's always been about preventing the implications that follow on straight after disclosure.

Are we about to be shown almost limitless free energy? That single question is the most important. If over night the value of petroleum and the petro-chemical and exploration industries were to plummet, never to recover - can you imagine all the 'money' wiped off the accounts of the seriously rich? Anything that has the power to level all humans on an even footing without dependence of another, is going to be the single most scary thing to the moneyed elite who absolutely exist. Follow the money, the big money calls the shots. The big money feels disclosure is bad for business ergo no disclosure. It is that simple, with all other aspects very secondary to that.

(oh and the 'money' I referred to above is the 'money' that was created out of nothing. I would love to see all that ill-gotten billions wiped out of existence. No-one needs to be super-rich and jesus, if you took 20 of the richest 100 humans on earth and had their combined worth - can you imagine the help you could give for those most unfortunate? No, it sits as an abstract concept that somehow soothes the mind of a certain type of person plagued by deadly sin: greed.)
 
starise said:
I never bought into the idea by some ufologists and lecturers that the religious people are too fragile to handle a revelation that there are other beings. I say get real, My God is big enough to do whatever He wants to do.If your God is that small maybe you need another one. The whole idea of keeping information from a group of people because they are too vulnerable in some way doesn't fly at all. Everyone I know likes the TRUTH no matter what it is. Finding other beings would neither confirm of refute any of my beliefs. For goodness sake the Vatican has embraced the possibility. I'm not Catholic, but I think they have at least that part right ;) It has also been said that the public at large can't handle such a disclosure. The human race tends to cope and deal with whatever comes up. The sooner it happens the better because we will develop a different way of looking at some things.
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This reminds me of a talk I had with our MUFON State director some time ago. His views were similar, but I pointed out that it's easy for a layperson to say things like this. Everything we know or think we know about what's concealed probably isn't 2% of what the government knows. It's obvious that those really in the know don't share your optimism.;)
 
trainedobserver said:
I think as long as we attempt to hammer the UFO phenomenon into known and established concepts created by culture (religion, tradition, folklore, and fiction) we are going to fall short. It is no more about "spirits", "fallen angels", or "demons" than it is about little green men or extraterrestrial scientists on a field trip.
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They must be something definite. While I certainly agree it isn't superstitious old stuff, we shouldn't dismiss the ETH. Confusing as the phenomenon often appears--deliberately so--we shouldn't assume it's unfathomable just because it tries to pull the wool over our eyes.
 
goggsmackay said:
It's never been about the public being unable to handle the news that ET exists and is here now.
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To an extent I think it has been. Many times, people are terrified by encounters.


The big money feels disclosure is bad for business ergo no disclosure. It is that simple, with all other aspects very secondary to that.
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I don't think so. Many times in the past, "big money" was willing to abandon one industry in favor of another. The automobile wasn't suppressed to preserve the horse and buggy. The fatcats would figure out a way to profit from anything new.
 
I don't think the comparison holds; these times in the past were from going from one industry to another industry, who's existence is to make money, just as every industry. There is so much of our lives from petrochemicals that if gasoline becomes redundant cos a cheap and free method of electrical power generating comes along, there is so much invested in our society based on the fact we still consume oil, the value of anything to do with the oil business would plummet- we are talking New York stockbrokers jumping from tall buildings, as all this money that is only a concept, unlike say gold, just ceased to exist. The greediest will lose the most. ~Whoever the real string-pullers in the world are - they won't want things to change and become fair etc. Any ET technology is almost certain, by comparison with our technology, to be far superior and they may have totally cracked how to utilise energy in a perfectly safe manner but on a scale so small to anything we would have conceived to generate the same power. Overnight game-changer for a lot of things we take for granted and the consequences could be extremely far-reaching.

Sorry, rambling a bit so.......:confused:
 
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