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They don't want us to know

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Sure but with what specific object?

I think the misdirection is coming from the human side, the object is contained in the Vallee quote in my signature. "Not only is there an amazing willingness in the human mind to invest credence and faith in unproven facts, but there is more evil, more readiness than ever on the part of various sophisticated groups, to use this human weakness as a tool in controlling others." I think the "sophisticated groups" are both military and civilian with goals as varied as intelligence gathering to monetary gain.

I don't think that any non-human aspect that might exist would need to employ deception. Their otherness being camouflage enough. They might be trying to communicate something or we may just think they are, our brains responding to them with interpretations of gods or imps giving us cosmic messages of love or impending doom when actually all they are saying is "Hold still while I shove this up there."

I still say if something else is really coming here and jacking with us as they are reportedly doing, then whatever the damn things are, we need to kill the ones that are here, track them back to their point of origin and exterminate the lot of them. I'm just saying. That is the only logical thing to do when you are being preyed upon by another species. I'm sure that has occurred to them as well. I wonder ...is that what they are in the process of doing here? Are they here because they tracked us back here from wherever we may have ventured out to before the last great catastrophe threw our civilization back into the stone age? Did we go to their planets and kidnap, rape, probe, and dissect them? (shivers) Is this Payback on Planet Three? Nah.
 
I don't think the comparison holds; these times in the past were from going from one industry to another industry, who's existence is to make money, just as every industry. There is so much of our lives from petrochemicals that if gasoline becomes redundant cos a cheap and free method of electrical power generating comes along, there is so much invested in our society based on the fact we still consume oil, the value of anything to do with the oil business would plummet- we are talking New York stockbrokers jumping from tall buildings, as all this money that is only a concept, unlike say gold, just ceased to exist. The greediest will lose the most. ~Whoever the real string-pullers in the world are - they won't want things to change and become fair etc. Any ET technology is almost certain, by comparison with our technology, to be far superior and they may have totally cracked how to utilise energy in a perfectly safe manner but on a scale so small to anything we would have conceived to generate the same power. Overnight game-changer for a lot of things we take for granted and the consequences could be extremely far-reaching

I dunno; there have been many sweeping economic transformations before. If ET technology is a kind of panacea, it would be very much in demand hence very profitable. Even if some fatcats concur with the above, others would be willing to take risks. Furthermore, I don't believe fatcat power is so great it completely overshadows other considerations. Many in government are eager to end our dependence on imported oil, and the need for environmental solutions is urgent; it's scary how global warming is causing weather extremes.
 
It's never been about the public being unable to handle the news that ET exists and is here now.

It's always been about preventing the implications that follow on straight after disclosure.

Are we about to be shown almost limitless free energy? That single question is the most important. If over night the value of petroleum and the petro-chemical and exploration industries were to plummet, never to recover - can you imagine all the 'money' wiped off the accounts of the seriously rich? Anything that has the power to level all humans on an even footing without dependence of another, is going to be the single most scary thing to the moneyed elite who absolutely exist. Follow the money, the big money calls the shots. The big money feels disclosure is bad for business ergo no disclosure. It is that simple, with all other aspects very secondary to that.

(oh and the 'money' I referred to above is the 'money' that was created out of nothing. I would love to see all that ill-gotten billions wiped out of existence. No-one needs to be super-rich and jesus, if you took 20 of the richest 100 humans on earth and had their combined worth - can you imagine the help you could give for those most unfortunate? No, it sits as an abstract concept that somehow soothes the mind of a certain type of person plagued by deadly sin: greed.)

On this planet, any idea that threatens the 'status-quo', vested interests, the working infrastructure will face the 'wrath/fierce brute force' from those that survive/benefit from its existence.

Anybody working on concepts that threaten the livelyhood of millions obviously faces massive resistance.

Corporations despise changes... R&D is expensive and investors want the best return on investment.

Cash is king... and you'd better get used to that fetid pool of crap behind your backyard ;)
 
For the love of Aunt Bee's sweet breast milk, you just don't get it..., do you?


What's not to get? Seems more like I've called attention to some apparent contradictions in your statements and you are refusing to provide an explanation, or for that matter move on to something constructive, choosing instead to make colorful slights about my intellectual capacity ... hmm ... this reminds me of what I go through on a certain other website.
 
What's not to get? Seems more like I've called attention to some apparent contradictions in your statements and you are refusing to provide an explanation, or for that matter move on to something constructive, choosing instead to make colorful slights about my intellectual capacity ... hmm ... this reminds me of what I go through on a certain other website.


I apologize as I have never met Aunt Bee, (you know she’s a fictitious character on the Andy Griffith Show), and have not the slightest clue as to the oligosccharide level of her breast milk.

Concerning your intellectual ability, that was never called into question, as I never mentioned or inferred anything about it, you did. And as far as contradictions are concerned..., there are none. What I stated was that I could not answer your specific questions from a materialistic / reductionist position. Not whether or not I could answer your questions from a dualistic, or idealist position. You see, the questions are more important than the answers, as there is a vast difference between intelligence, and ignorance. And as if I were to attempt to answer your questions from the before mentioned positions, it would take many hours, many pages, and you would probably not like what it may offer. That is something which im sure you have the mental capacity, and the time to handle. I really don’t have any good advice for you concerning your problems on other web sites.
 
On this planet, any idea that threatens the 'status-quo', vested interests, the working infrastructure will face the 'wrath/fierce brute force' from those that survive/benefit from its existence.

Anybody working on concepts that threaten the livelyhood of millions obviously faces massive resistance.

Corporations despise changes... R&D is expensive and investors want the best return on investment.


Hasn't stopped all kinds of innovation which is ongoing, to the detriment of some--look at the fate of newspapers. In addition to aforementioned benefits, new tech would greatly enhance US national power. I just don't believe the "loaded ones" are so strong they can hold back all that progress or would even want to, IF they are indeed behind the coverup.
 
Hasn't stopped all kinds of innovation which is ongoing, to the detriment of some--look at the fate of newspapers. In addition to aforementioned benefits, new tech would greatly enhance US national power. I just don't believe the "loaded ones" are so strong they can hold back all that progress or would even want to, IF they are indeed behind the coverup.

Good example... but the graphic communication industry is going through a gradual transition and the economic impact scale is much smaller.

Fossil fuels are at the core of our civilization and and conveniently keep entire societies chained to a model making slaves out of its citizens.

1 trillion$ of subsidies in the UK ... imagine the US ?
Campaigners demand an end to $1tn fossil fuel subsidies

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2012/jun/18/campaigners-end-fossil-fuel-subsidies

Truth is... with fossil fuels you can easily control the mobility of your slaves. Free energy means easier migrations and the collapse of many working control mechanisms that feed the machination.

How would a society function with relatively free energy ? (fusion reactors) Has anybody even started working on that new model ?

My guess is we aren't ready yet... and nobody is in a hurry lol.
 
I think as long as we attempt to hammer the UFO phenomenon into known and established concepts created by culture (religion, tradition, folklore, and fiction) we are going to fall short. It is no more about "spirits", "fallen angels", or "demons" than it is about little green men or extraterrestrial scientists on a field trip.

I see that you are very apprehensive about any thoughts that try to tie what our traditions and some religions say with what is happening now. Science builds on science and knowledge on knowledge so why throw the baby out with the bathwater? How do you know some of this isn't about spirits?

I hold the idea that there is a high probablility that at least some of what is happening is very possibly realted to these entities, beings...yes I'm going to say it, angels both fallen and not.

It explains a lot really if you dare to entertain the thought. While we die after 70 years or so they are eternal.They have capabilities far exceeding anything we have or can do at the present. The bad angels were kicked from heaven to earth. People tend to think of heaven as a boring place where people float around all day playing harps. If you think silicon valley is a high tech place,then heaven would floor you IMO. When the bad angels were sent here they took some of that technology with them and shared a very small amount of it with us. No doubt they are really up on genetics and propulsion. They don't need to come from Alpha Centari, they are already here. Ancient Aliens? These are your guys. They are indeed ancient and they are indeed alien to us. Ancient civilizations would have worshipped them as gods.It would have been a sweet gig for the bad angels because they would be worshipped as gods while taking full advantage of their followers. There is a checks and balances though. There are the good ones who outnumber them. One day the good angels will pull away and let the bad angels do their thing once again for a short time as described in the Biblical book of Revelation . All hell will break loose for awhile and a lot of people will be totally awed and fooled by these beings and their leader.They will have the answers to all of our energy needs.Anyone who falls for their pitch is in deep trouble.It won't be long until their lies will be exposed and the good forces gain complete contriol of the planet. Them and their followers will be destroyed.
Is this the "disclosure" we keep hearing about? Our space brothers come to save us? They have pulled it off before IMO with ancient peoples.It could be the beginning of the end of the world as we know it.

Are these the dudes that our military is supposedly rubbing shoulders with in deep underground bases? I would not put it past them at all.Assuming that they have genetic capabilites,they could have made something and it could be there. I can't confirm or deny it. I know they have a plan that will seem successful but eventually fail . Coming to one of the most powerful governments on the planet in order to gain some assistance with their deception would not surprise me in the least. I think they were involved with the German Nazis. The Germans practically invited them in by playing all of that black arts nonsense. The USA has been involved in black arts for awhile in the name of espionage. The beings thow them a bone every now and then to keep the thing going. Opening these doors lets em' in. Doesn't matter if it is governments or individuals.

You either think I'm a nutbag or I'm onto something. I hope for your sake you at least look into some of it. Don't eliminate anything just because it is considered by a few short sighted atheists to be living in la la land.
 
I'm sorry but you said 'the bad angels were kicked from heaven'. How on earth do you know that? Cos a book says so? Who wrote the book and what were his sources. Come on, there is indeed space in this forum for things that are difficult/impossible to prove but most of us wish to try and get the true information and whenever possible, facts n figures to back various assertions.

But you cannot blindly just state something from a very old book as if it is proven fact. I draw the line there myself but I am absolutely NOT trying to tell you what to believe in or not - as the case may be. That is of course your right - I just get uncomfortable reading arguments based on stuff written at a time when most people were illiterate and they were more superstitious etc.

Where did the authors of the bible claim to have received all this wisdom about angels and whatnot? A dream? A vision? Someone told them? These things usually come under various types of mental illness at worst, or daydreams at best. I am not an atheist but I am pretty sure if there is a supreme god, he had zero to do with the writing of ANY religious text. It's all man-made.
 
But you cannot blindly just state something from a very old book as if it is proven fact. I draw the line there myself but I am absolutely NOT trying to tell you what to believe in or not - as the case may be. That is of course your right - I just get uncomfortable reading arguments based on stuff written at a time when most people were illiterate and they were more superstitious etc.

Right, a book written by ancient ignoramuses, who didn't have 1% of our knowledge, is the last place to turn for accurate info.

Where did the authors of the bible claim to have received all this wisdom about angels and whatnot? A dream? A vision? Someone told them?

They just made it up, in part because people back then had no scientific basis for understanding the world. They just made up creation myths.

I am pretty sure if there is a supreme god, he had zero to do with the writing of ANY religious text. It's all man-made.

Of course. See Ehrman's works; scholars are convinced the bulk of the bible is just made up, long after the events in question.
 
These questions, statements, and opinions should be based in philosophical terms. I would suggest that there are no more than a handful of members who truly know what is being referred to here. For instance, are you basing your opinion from a material/reductionist viewpoint? Are you basing your opinion from a dualistic position, or share the idealistic approach? This is important because you cannot have it all, (as of yet), for if you do, you most certainly run the risk of contradicting yourself.., and perhaps looking a little bit silly.
Comprehending the thoughts of the brightest scholars in varied disciplines is vitally important. Scholars of astrophysics and biology, particle physics, psychology, philosophy, theology, mythology, ancient history, would be suggested.
This very well could be the reason which most throw up their hands after having extrapolated to the best of their abilities, settling into a cultural context in which they feel comfortable with.


OK perhaps we need to take another approach. In regard to your quote: "These questions, statements, and opinions should be based in philosophical terms." What questions you are referring to, and why should they be based in philosophical terms?
 
OK perhaps we need to take another approach. In regard to your quote: "These questions, statements, and opinions should be based in philosophical terms." What questions you are referring to, and why should they be based in philosophical terms?


Here is something to think about which may interest some. The following I borrowed from a website known as the “Physics Forums,” with the thread entitled, “Philosophy: Materialism versus Idealism.” Here, a forum member aptly describes the differences between Materialism and Idealism.


“Philosophy can be divided into two major directions of thought, centered on what is considered to be the fundamental issue in philosophy: the relation between Being and Thinking.

In this short discussion I will try to briefly explain these two major directions in philosophy.

Let us consider some very basic feature of our being. We sit for instance on a chair. We can see the chair, we can touch it, and the other senses can as well perceive of the chair. Now these perceptions all occur within our brain, where the input data of the sensory organs come together, and form an "image" of the thing we perceive.
A central issue in this is whether or not we regard the thing that caused the perceptions as real or not. Or in other words, apart of our perceptions and awareness of the chair, is there really something outside and separate from our mind?

Materialism answers this with a clear yes. Not only by our senses but also through science and instruments, we can know about this object, that is separate from out mind. There is an objective world, independent of our mind. The objective world consists of what is called matter, which has the property of being in motion (undergoing change) at all times. Space and time just denote the modes of existence of matter.

Idealism answers this with a clear no. Apart from our immediate perceptions and awareness of the world, there is no such thing as an outside, objective world. The world takes places entirely within our mind. Outside of that, nothing exists.

So, these opposing philosophies contradict each other in their definition of what the world is consisting of in primary instance. Materialism claims that in first instance the world is just matter in motion. Our mind, brain and body only denote a specific form of matter. So, our mind, awareness and thoughts, are a secondary property of matter.
Idealism on the other hand claims that there is no such material world, and that the world in first instance is our mental process, our mind and thoughts. That what is perceived, and which behaves ordinary, is not an entity on itself, but was created in or by the mind.

If we consider the claim of Idealism to it's ultimate extent, we conclude that it would see of the world as if there was only one mind. This would lead to a contradictory point, and the view of solipsism, which is the vision that apart from our individual mind, nothing at all whatsoever exists, including other minds.
This point of view of solipsism is however not a viewpoint taking in by any known philosopher. It would be a contradicting thing to consider it even by a philosopher, because the activity of philosophy contains discussing it with other people (minds). According to solipsism, only one such mind exists, so to discuss it with other minds would be a contradiction in terms.
Idealism however, in order to escape from this absurd point of view, is more commonly known and developed in the form of objective idealism. Instead of one individual mind, the world is considered to be in essence and primary instance an Absolute Idea (Hegel) or fundamental principle. The connection between objective idealism and religion can be made clear, because the idea of a deity (God) is just that: a fundamental principle or Absolute Idea.
Idealism as such as a whole does not oppose as such the fact that there is a material world, only that in the point of view of idealism, matter is not the primary substance.
According to idealism mind (Hegel: Gist) in the form of a fundamental principle or an Absolute Idea is the primary substance, matter is just a secondary substance, which does not exists independent of mind.

The philosophy of materialism and idealism not just oppose each other on the issue of what is the primary substance the world is made of, but also about the issue if and how the world can be known.

Materialism claims that the world in knowable. Through science we have been able to acquire a lot of knowledge, and science will ever progress. Materialism rejects the idea of absolute knowledge. Science can improve our knowledge, but can not find the ultimate or absolute truth. Knowledge progresses through relative knowledge, that create a gradual improving and more 'realistic' picture of the outside, objective, material world. The way we gain more knowledge is by doing experiments, verify theories, explore the material world, etc. The building of theories follows the experiment and observation. We cannot have prior knowledge about the world, before exploring it, and no scientific theory can be claimed to be true, if it can not be stated on experiment and/or observation.

Idealism claims that we cannot know about the world. According to idealism the world is based on a fundamental principle or Absolute Idea. The way in which idealism progresses in order to gain knowledge, is to theorize, debate and discuss ideas, which reflect on the fundamental principle of nature or the Absolute Idea.

In current day science we can still see the struggle between these opposing philosophies, and in the emergence of contemporary theories in the field of physics and cosmology. Consider for instance string cosmology/M theory, or the idea about a "beginning of time", which are nothing more as reflections on some (unknown) fundamental principle or Absolute Idea, which is thought as to be the essence of nature.
On the other hand, based on materialism and the progress of science in many fields, we can witness the fact that mankind gathered a lot of knowledge in the past couple of hundred years. For instance we have a profound understanding (but still incomplete) how natural processes were causing evolution and how it still works today, we have a profound understanding of the physical laws of the universe and the origin of the cosmos (special relativity, general relativity, quantum mechanics, uncertainty principle, quantum chromo dynamics, expansion of the universe, etc), although we know we don't have and never will have a complete understanding.”


This, I borrowed from the website “All about Philosophy.”


"What is Cartesian dualism?

Dualism is an ancient concept that was deeply rooted in Greek thought. However, long before that, the ancient scriptures taught that mankind was made in God’s image and that Adam needed the spirit breathed into him before becoming a living soul. Almost 2000 years after Plato and Aristotle reasoned that the human mind or soul could not be identified with the physical body, Rene Descartes reinforced this concept and gave it a name, dualism. The word “Cartesius” is simply the Latin form of the name Descartes. Consequently, Cartesian dualism is simply Descartes concept of dualism.

Descartes’ famous saying epitomizes the dualism concept. He said, “cogito ergo sum,” “I reflect therefore I am.” Descartes held that the immaterial mind and the material body are two completely different types of substances and that they interact with each other. He reasoned that the body could be divided up by removing a leg or arm, but the mind or soul were indivisible.

This concept is difficult to accept for those with a secular humanist, materialist, and evolutionist world view because accepting it is accepting supernaturalism. Consequently, Bible believers accept dualism and people with the opposite world view find themselves obligated to reject it."





So where do you stand?
 
I see that you are very apprehensive about any thoughts that try to tie what our traditions and some religions say with what is happening now. Science builds on science and knowledge on knowledge so why throw the baby out with the bathwater? How do you know some of this isn't about spirits?

I hold the idea that there is a high probablility that at least some of what is happening is very possibly realted to these entities, beings...yes I'm going to say it, angels both fallen and not.

It explains a lot really if you dare to entertain the thought. While we die after 70 years or so they are eternal.They have capabilities far exceeding anything we have or can do at the present. The bad angels were kicked from heaven to earth. People tend to think of heaven as a boring place where people float around all day playing harps. If you think silicon valley is a high tech place,then heaven would floor you IMO. When the bad angels were sent here they took some of that technology with them and shared a very small amount of it with us. No doubt they are really up on genetics and propulsion. They don't need to come from Alpha Centari, they are already here. Ancient Aliens? These are your guys. They are indeed ancient and they are indeed alien to us. Ancient civilizations would have worshipped them as gods.It would have been a sweet gig for the bad angels because they would be worshipped as gods while taking full advantage of their followers. There is a checks and balances though. There are the good ones who outnumber them. One day the good angels will pull away and let the bad angels do their thing once again for a short time as described in the Biblical book of Revelation . All hell will break loose for awhile and a lot of people will be totally awed and fooled by these beings and their leader.They will have the answers to all of our energy needs.Anyone who falls for their pitch is in deep trouble.It won't be long until their lies will be exposed and the good forces gain complete contriol of the planet. Them and their followers will be destroyed.
Is this the "disclosure" we keep hearing about? Our space brothers come to save us? They have pulled it off before IMO with ancient peoples.It could be the beginning of the end of the world as we know it.

Are these the dudes that our military is supposedly rubbing shoulders with in deep underground bases? I would not put it past them at all.Assuming that they have genetic capabilites,they could have made something and it could be there. I can't confirm or deny it. I know they have a plan that will seem successful but eventually fail . Coming to one of the most powerful governments on the planet in order to gain some assistance with their deception would not surprise me in the least. I think they were involved with the German Nazis. The Germans practically invited them in by playing all of that black arts nonsense. The USA has been involved in black arts for awhile in the name of espionage. The beings thow them a bone every now and then to keep the thing going. Opening these doors lets em' in. Doesn't matter if it is governments or individuals.

You either think I'm a nutbag or I'm onto something. I hope for your sake you at least look into some of it. Don't eliminate anything just because it is considered by a few short sighted atheists to be living in la la land.

Starise I think your on to something.
 
Idealism answers this with a clear no. Apart from our immediate perceptions and awareness of the world, there is no such thing as an outside, objective world. The world takes places entirely within our mind. Outside of that, nothing exists.

Sounds ridiculous. There are millions of fossils from eras which long predated us, and, no doubt, all kinds of things going on on planets as yet unperceived by us.

Materialism claims that the world in knowable. Through science we have been able to acquire a lot of knowledge, and science will ever progress. Materialism rejects the idea of absolute knowledge. Science can improve our knowledge, but can not find the ultimate or absolute truth.

Seems contradictory. If the world is knowable, why can't we eventually know all about it?
 
“Sounds ridiculous. There are millions of fossils from eras which long predated us, and, no doubt, all kinds of things going on on planets as yet unperceived by us.”


Yes it does sound ridiculous to the material / reductionist, however so do flying saucers and wood elves.

In Particle Physics there is a state known in which a particle, (matter) , can be, (for lack a better word) , solid , or it can be a wave, (non-solid) , this is referred to as a Probability Wave, or Wave/Particle Duality, and nothing more than a sea of possibilities exist. However, when a form of consciousness interacts, by projecting, or applying consciousness toward the Probability Wave, the Wave Field collapses producing the particle, this is known as the Observer Effect. Over the course of decades there have been countless peer reviewed experiments conducted producing the same results showing this to be the case. What does this mean? I would suggest what this may imply is that the known Universe in which we reside, reality and matter, are much different than what you might understandably consider.
 
Wave/particle duality, never-ending smaller and smaller fundamental particles - does it ever end? I don't think there can be a 'smallest' thing. When I think about how un-solid the world around is I consider myself lucky in that I can see the possibilities for some strange stuff.

Some people see solid objects because they don't know the science. Ignorance can be bliss and really none of us can be faulted for our view of how things may be put together. We don't really know so your guess is as good as mine.
 
“We don't really know so your guess is as good as mine.”


Yes, as I would suggest that one should attempt to learn from the best guessers..., I guess.
 
Here is something to think about which may interest some. The following I borrowed from a website known as the “Physics Forums,” with the thread entitled, “Philosophy: Materialism versus Idealism.” Here, a forum member aptly describes the differences between Materialism and Idealism. “Philosophy can be divided into two major directions of thought, centered on what is considered to be the fundamental issue in philosophy: the relation between Being and Thinking. In this short discussion I will try to briefly explain these two major directions in philosophy ... So where do you stand?

Where do I stand? The proposition, "They don't want us to know." presents an epistemological problem that in my opinion would best be addressed using elements of rationalism and empiricism, but not full blown transcendentalism ( I'm sure Kant would have something to say about this ). On your scale this would probably translate to a dualist position e.g. the boundaries that Starise mentioned are both material and a priori.
 
I'm sorry but you said 'the bad angels were kicked from heaven'. How on earth do you know that?

Thanks for your comments goggsmackay.

Revelation 12:7" And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon,and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough,and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down-that ancient serpent called the devil,or Satan,who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth and his angels with him."

Use of the term dragon is interesting as it could pertain to the so called "reptilians". I could give you other references that denote Satan as a reptile but a beautiful one.

How on earth do you know that? Cos a book says so? Who wrote the book and what were his sources.

I know it because it is written in the Bible. The Bible claims of itself to be the word of God to man. That's the short answer. We could go into an in depth look at the different people who acted as God's secretaries in penning the words as given to them by the inspiration of God. We could go further into who later divided and categorized it into individual books, who excluded certain parts of it and who added other parts. From the perspective of authorship there is only one author but many writers.. That parts of the Bible clearly fit like puzzle pieces together when penned by different writers who didn't know one another and who lived in different cultures and times is remarkable in iteslf and is seldom mentioned. Nothing about the Bible has ever proven not to be factual,quite the contrary. Modern archealogy confirms the Bible as does science.

But you cannot blindly just state something from a very old book as if it is proven fact.

I don't consider myself doing anything blindly although it might appear that way to you.The fact that a book is old should not work against it. FWIW the not accepted book of Enoch is a great resource for anyone who follows the angel/ufo/alien idea. Enoch is mentioned in the Bible but the book by his name was scrapped by scholars. Enoch seems to shed a little more light on the nature of the angelic host and what happened to the bad angels.This is also an old book.

I just get uncomfortable reading arguments based on stuff written at a time when most people were illiterate and they were more superstitious etc

The Sumarians are confirmed to have been one of the most advanced ancient peoples.They had a library system. They may not have had computers like we understand them but they were considered to be very advanced. They predated the peoples who penned the Bible. They were far from illiterate(did I spell illiterate right ;). If you go to certain parts of the world today you will find very superstitious people.

Trajanus-
Right, a book written by ancient ignoramuses, who didn't have 1% of our knowledge, is the last place to turn for accurate info.

I agree with you on half of this one Trajanus. 1 Corinthians 1:27" But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong."

Certain knowledge has been lost into antiquity. The only way to retrieve it is to look at something ancient. Calling the ancients ignoramuses does them a great disservice IMO.
 
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