UFO Impulsivity & Paranormal Phenomena

[hak]

Thank GAWD for spell check!

---------- Post added at 11:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 AM ----------

You know.. everyone talks about the consciousness of humans and what that means, but most people don't think in the terms of animal or pant consciousness.. (another can of worms). Personally, I think pants do have a consciousness of sorts.. and have actually run into a couple of books that relay the same information.
So the question is (assuming that plants do have a form of consciousness)... what is the mechanism. They don't have a brain, or a nervous system. I know this is way out there, but I'm interested in any opinion someone may offer.

 

[softbeard]

Well, I don't know about plants, but animals are obviously concious. Because, you do realize, by animals that also means us. We are animals and other, closely-related, mammals like the higher primates, various dolphin/whale species, canines, felines, elephants, etc. are so close to us in expressing their conciousness that it becomes obvious to us, on many different levels, that they are concious. Even though rigid proof of this is only recent.
I suspect there may be a basis for plant conciousness too, on some level, but I think this is all a big shades-of-gray area; very fuzzy.

 

[SRL+]

Thank GAWD for spell check!

---------- Post added at 11:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 AM ----------

You know.. everyone talks about the consciousness of humans and what that means, but most people don't think in the terms of animal or pant consciousness.. (another can of worms). Personally, I think pants do have a consciousness of sorts.. and have actually run into a couple of books that relay the same information.
So the question is (assuming that plants do have a form of consciousness)... what is the mechanism. They don't have a brain, or a nervous system. I know this is way out there, but I'm interested in any opinion someone may offer.

There is the contentious Cleve Baxter who used a polygraph machine to gauge a plants response to various stimuli. Myth Busters tried it, and to their surprise they were able to detect a response the first time. Apparently after refining the experiment, they failed to detect any additional responses. He wrote a book call The Secret Life of Plants

 

[hak]

I read his book. And read another.. The Lost Language of Plants, which was VERY interesting. The writer had a great understanding of Botany that Cleve Baxter didn't have. Poor Cleve, his experimentation with plants and plant consciousness destroyed his credibility.
I think in our world of technology and houses and computers..we (people) have become very disconnected from our natural world and have lost an ability to understand it that we might have once had. Your McKenna person probably has some understanding of that if he trained as a shaman.

 

[SRL+]

Mckenna didn’t necessarily qualify as a shaman, but he did poses a deep and profound understanding of nature. He had the ability to weave different aspects of human consciousness from that unique and rare perspective. Mr. Baxter’s experiment with the yogurt didn’t help his cause much.

 

[plumbbob12]

Hak: great question. I don't think that our western logical positivism has a chance of developing a theory about plant consciousness, much less human consciousness as it stands today. With that said, it seems that the frontier of quantum physics is starting to look at the "single electron" idea of matter, which basically says that "everything is everything" to quote the old 1960's hippie saying. My personal belief is that physics will change as the old guard dies out, and the new researchers come into the field, and start looking at quantum entanglement with a more open mind. Even Einstein, who was one of the most progressive scientists in the 20th century, did not like the idea of "spooky action at a distance", but was forced to concede its possibility. So I do think that modern science is starting to change from a totally materialist viewpoint. I myself feel disconcerted with the idea of only one electron existing in the universe, and it’s being manifest in our reality as all the electrons in the universe. Weird.

 

[SRL+]

http://www.integralscience.org/psyche-physis.html#Biblio This might interest you.

Hak: great question. I don't think that our western logical positivism has a chance of developing a theory about plant consciousness, much less human consciousness as it stands today. With that said, it seems that the frontier of quantum physics is starting to look at the "single electron" idea of matter, which basically says that "everything is everything" to quote the old 1960's hippie saying. My personal belief is that physics will change as the old guard dies out, and the new researchers come into the field, and start looking at quantum entanglement with a more open mind. Even Einstein, who was one of the most progressive scientists in the 20th century, did not like the idea of "spooky action at a distance", but was forced to concede its possibility. So I do think that modern science is starting to change from a totally materialist viewpoint. I myself feel disconcerted with the idea of only one electron existing in the universe, and it’s being manifest in our reality as all the electrons in the universe. Weird.

 

[hak]

Hak: great question. I don't think that our western logical positivism has a chance of developing a theory about plant consciousness, much less human consciousness as it stands today. With that said, it seems that the frontier of quantum physics is starting to look at the "single electron" idea of matter, which basically says that "everything is everything" to quote the old 1960's hippie saying. My personal belief is that physics will change as the old guard dies out, and the new researchers come into the field, and start looking at quantum entanglement with a more open mind. Even Einstein, who was one of the most progressive scientists in the 20th century, did not like the idea of "spooky action at a distance", but was forced to concede its possibility. So I do think that modern science is starting to change from a totally materialist viewpoint. I myself feel disconcerted with the idea of only one electron existing in the universe, and it’s being manifest in our reality as all the electrons in the universe. Weird.

At one point in my life, I had the opportunity of being very ill for a couple of years with a *rare* but very treatable illness. However, because it is *rare* it was difficult to diagnose.

Anywho that period of time was an extremely sad time... my brain was affected rather drastically and without treatment I would have eventually died. I noticed a profound sense of loneliness and isolation that I have never had. (I am a very happy loner) It felt like I had lost my "connectivity" to everything around me. When I finally found a doctor who could help me, and was put on proper medication, I noticed that as I got better, my *connectivity* to my surroundings came back. From this I've developed a mild understanding of a couple of things,
1) We can't fully understand our consciousness till it has been altered on some level; therefore, we will be blind to many different aspects of it.
2)The "connectedness" that I temporarily lost is an innate part of my consciousness and relationship to my surroundings. It is very deep, and as of yet (as far as i know) an aspect of our awareness that hasn't really been categorized, simply because people don't know it's there.

There is so much we don't know.

 

[plumbbob12]

Hak: Thanks for the good story. I agree that most of us need some sort of "wake-up call" in the form of illness or accident in order to experience what we never thought of before. This is the basis for many Shamanic journeys. Most of the shaman stories I have heard of, start with a life threatening illness, where they confront there "realness", and once they recover; they see the world in a different way. I too have had serious illness thrust upon me, and I can relate to what you said about losing the connectivity. I use to call it, a "sick soul", which made me feel the same way you related in your post. Kind of tough to turn the corner on this condition, but like the man says, "Its darkest just before the dawn". Thanks again.
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[hak]

Hak: Thanks for the good story. I agree that most of us need some sort of "wake-up call" in the form of illness or accident in order to experience what we never thought of before. This is the basis for many Shamanic journeys. Most of the shaman stories I have heard of, start with a life threatening illness, where they confront there "realness", and once they recover; they see the world in a different way. I too have had serious illness thrust upon me, and I can relate to what you said about losing the connectivity. I use to call it, a "sick soul", which made me feel the same way you related in your post. Kind of tough to turn the corner on this condition, but like the man says, "Its darkest just before the dawn". Thanks again.
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I'm so glad to run into someone who knows what I'm talking about! Sometimes you need a little validation!

 

[SRL+]

At one point in my life, I had the opportunity of being very ill for a couple of years with a *rare* but very treatable illness. However, because it is *rare* it was difficult to diagnose.

Anywho that period of time was an extremely sad time... my brain was affected rather drastically and without treatment I would have eventually died. I noticed a profound sense of loneliness and isolation that I have never had. (I am a very happy loner) It felt like I had lost my "connectivity" to everything around me. When I finally found a doctor who could help me, and was put on proper medication, I noticed that as I got better, my *connectivity* to my surroundings came back. From this I've developed a mild understanding of a couple of things,
1) We can't fully understand our consciousness till it has been altered on some level; therefore, we will be blind to many different aspects of it.
2)The "connectedness" that I temporarily lost is an innate part of my consciousness and relationship to my surroundings. It is very deep, and as of yet (as far as i know) an aspect of our awareness that hasn't really been categorized, simply because people don't know it's there.

There is so much we don't know.

Your experience brings up a couple of good points. Plumbing the depths of consciousness, stripping the culture away can run counter intuitive with the psyche, especially with this subject. I can see how ones psyche could be disoriented. Take for example Frank Salisbury who was interviewed on the Paracast not too long ago. I found Mr. Salisbury to be honest and forthright. He and Jacques Vallee came to the same basic conclusions taking different paths. Mr. Salisbury left his research for several years, decompressing due to the fact that his research was interfering with his religious beliefs. This is not that uncommon even with highly credentialed researchers. Apparently in your case a medical condition lead you down an uncomfortable path. It sounds like you’ve recovered . . . that’s good.

 

[hak]

SRL

I'm doing very well, thank you.
I will listen to said podcast. See what I think.

Consciousness is like air.. and we are balloons that float in the air.. unaware on many levels the reason that we float.. I think. Our brains are set to automate many of our functions, for example a heartbeat, perhaps our consciousness has many underlying "functions" so to speak.

I often wonder what it must be like to be a sociopath, to be a perfect mimic, but without empathy. To have no understanding of empathy. I don't think anyone will be able to understand that view, unless they themselves were a sociopath. People tend to unconsciously extend their psyches into others, probably mostly unaware that they do so. And it probably works because of commonalities.

Getting back to the thread.....

 

[SRL+]

SRL

I'm doing very well, thank you.
I will listen to said podcast. See what I think.

Consciousness is like air.. and we are balloons that float in the air.. unaware on many levels the reason that we float.. I think. Our brains are set to automate many of our functions, for example a heartbeat, perhaps our consciousness has many underlying "functions" so to speak.

I often wonder what it must be like to be a sociopath, to be a perfect mimic, but without empathy. To have no understanding of empathy. I don't think anyone will be able to understand that view, unless they themselves were a sociopath. People tend to unconsciously extend their psyches into others, probably mostly unaware that they do so. And it probably works because of commonalities.

Getting back to the thread.....

In general, I agree with you. I think to an extant we are all reflections of one another. I think there are some people who are more sensitive than others. I also think that what may be perceived at times is not what was intended. And this thread has run all over the place

 

[trainedobserver]

You know.. everyone talks about the consciousness of humans and what that means, but most people don't think in the terms of animal or pant consciousness.. (another can of worms). Personally, I think pants do have a consciousness of sorts.. and have actually run into a couple of books that relay the same information.

Some pants have an acid-washed consciousness.

Gregory Sams has one of the stranger consciousness theories out there. He talks about the possibility of the sun being a conscious being. Given our limited knowledge about consciousness and the true nature of reality while it is one of the stranger theories out there it isn't beyond the realm of possibility. Of course our ability to appreciate and understand any consciousness of a type other than another human being's or possibly another animal's is highly questionable.

 

[Ivette]

Since I have experienced sightings of different source, you have got me thinking that these experiences can be 1) forced upon me (since I have unwillingly witness them) 2) I have the mental/or brain power to see it and 3) chance. A good research would be as to what type of persons are those that have these experiences. I have always been very curious, and by all mean a good hearted person incapable of harming anyone, and full of goodwill. I did saw the program UFO Hunters where Hitler was very interested in the phenomena, but I don’t remember if he was a witness himself. Now, that will be one bad person.

 

[plumbbob12]

You touch on the philosophical idea that coined the term, "zombie". In the minds of philosophers, the term, zombie defines an automaton that is able to ape the conscious person perfectly, but has no consciousness of their own. Much like the example of sociopath, who can act like a real human, complete with emotions and feelings, but cannot feel, the zombie can act like a self-aware person, but does not have self awareness. Interesting idea, and touches on the concept of AI. Would a machine that can pass the Turing test, be conscious? Or just act like they were aware. Or does it matter?
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[Ivette]

I am very glad you are back to that awareness, because I fill that many of us human beings are completely out of it. Never bother to look at the sky, listen to the news much less think that plants have consciousness, witch to me is far fetch. Think it's vice versa, we are conscious of how important these green things are and what it means to us. But it is something Indians, to mention a group, were very aware and love and care for its healing powers. Love gardening!
I am sharing what I wrote to SRL:
Since I have experienced sightings of different kind, you have got me thinking that these experiences can be 1) forced upon me (since I have unwillingly witness them) 2) I have the mental/or brain power to see it and 3) by chance, which you mentioned.

 

[mike]

Stumbled across this one yesterday

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1364722/How-flash-light-brain-banish-fear.html

But in simulations of both open and covered areas the willingness of mice to explore the open areas increased profoundly as soon as light was pulsed into the brain circuit.
Pulsing that same circuit with a different, inhibitory frequency of light produced the opposite result – the mice instantly became more anxious and ‘hunkered down’.

Interesting.......... a certain light frequency that causes fear and triggers the "hunker down" reflex....... now where have i heard this described before

 

[hak]

It's funny how unaware we are until we have to work with it.
Farmers, avid gardeners become very familiar with seasons, weather and plants the way the rest of us who are attached to our computers (crying) can't hope too.
Personally, i find plants to have an incredible healing energy.

Anyone read "The Rainbow and the Serpent".... awesome read, goes into how they make zombies in Haiti.

 

[SRL+]

From what I understand the key to the phenomena may very well be consciousness. I cannot speak to whether or not plants have a form of consciousness. Perhaps they can detect forms of consciousness. It has been suggested that when Columbus’s ships first arrived in the Caribbean Islands only the Shaman, (after day’s of observing ripples in the water), was able to detect Columbus’s ships which were making those ripples. The Shaman then explained to the tribal members what he was seeing, and then they too saw the ships. Apparently not being able to comprehend what a ship was, and being so counter intuitive to their psyche, until described by the Shaman, they had no idea. Maybe there’s some truth to this. A number of Remote Viewers (RV) at S.R.I., had claimed to have had UFO sightings before their involvement in the program. It has also been suggested that some UFO experiencers have heightened senses after their initial experience.

I am very glad you are back to that awareness, because I fill that many of us human beings are completely out of it. Never bother to look at the sky, listen to the news much less think that plants have consciousness, witch to me is far fetch. Think it's vice versa, we are conscious of how important these green things are and what it means to us. But it is something Indians, to mention a group, were very aware and love and care for its healing powers. Love gardening!
I am sharing what I wrote to SRL:
Since I have experienced sightings of different kind, you have got me thinking that these experiences can be 1) forced upon me (since I have unwillingly witness them) 2) I have the mental/or brain power to see it and 3) by chance, which you mentioned.