trilithium
"I Wish I Knew"
That was an excellent post Schuyler and a great analogy. You are definitely a voice of logic & reason.
-
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UFOs and Nukes
- Thread starter Gene Steinberg
- Start date
Free episodes:
Stillborn
Skilled Investigator
Darn, I didn't get to have fun with him.
Someone buy me a drink from the bar analogy please.
The frown face is supposed to go after the first sentence. He won't move back up there though.
Schuyler
Misanthrope
Stillborn, you are stillborn.
Robert Hastings
Skilled Investigator
Thanks, boyfromspace. As they say, Helix, people who live in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.
I further note, Helix, that your first post on this thread was devoted to criticizing how disrespectful I supposedly was to the other posters at BAUT. However, after a few of your own posts here, once you had been challenged by others in one manner or another, you were referring to the posters here as persons who had crawled out from the "woodwork."
Hmmmm, Helix, it seems as if you are an hypocrite to me.
Speaking of BAUT, I paraphrase below journalist Terry Hanson, whose investigation of CSICOP/CSI helped in exposing the group's interesting but unstated connections to the U.S. government:
A charitable view of the BAUT crowd is that [they are] simply zealots, another of those groups for whom scientific dogma supplies the reassuring psychological bedrock that others find in religious fundamentalism. When confronted with evidence that calls into question his core beliefs, BAUT responds—as any fundamentalist would—by rejecting the evidence.
Moreover, as I readily acknowledged in the introduction of my book, the facts I present are not, by and large, scientific data. The testimony offered by my sources is simply anecdotal evidence, often reluctantly revealed, by dozens of highly-reliable individuals whose professional responsibilities had inadvertently and unexpectedly placed them in a position to experience the UFO phenomenon within an environment inaccessible to most persons. Those who have not worked with nuclear weapons—which is to say, the vast majority of us—have obviously had no opportunity to witness UFO activity in such a highly-restricted setting.
<o
></o>
Therefore, it seems to me, whether one is a scientist or a layperson, we should all at least listen to what these persons have to say. To automatically dismiss their now-numerous, detailed accounts of UFO encounters at nuclear weapons sites as mere fantasies, or fabrications, is to suggest that those who held the fate of the entire planet in their hands during the Cold War were dangerously demented or otherwise untrustworthy. Surely, this was not the case. <o></o>
<o></o>
In my view, the collective weight of the testimony offered by my former and retired military sources should at least give pause to even the most skeptical scientist and, hopefully, cause him or her to consider the subject of UFOs in a new light. Here, I am employing astronomer Bernard Haisch’s definition of a true skeptic, and am not referring to those close-minded debunkers whose preconceived notions and uninformed opinions about UFOs remain an unfortunate impediment to the eventual scientific understanding of the phenomenon.
Lastly, Helix, I know an individual named Garath, as opposed to Gareth with an "e", which probably accounts for my spelling our Gareth's name incorrectly (for which I apologize). But thanks anyway for your oh-so-scientific analysis of my slip. You are clearly an scholar with fascinating insights.
--Robert Hastings
ufohastings.com
I further note, Helix, that your first post on this thread was devoted to criticizing how disrespectful I supposedly was to the other posters at BAUT. However, after a few of your own posts here, once you had been challenged by others in one manner or another, you were referring to the posters here as persons who had crawled out from the "woodwork."
Hmmmm, Helix, it seems as if you are an hypocrite to me.
Speaking of BAUT, I paraphrase below journalist Terry Hanson, whose investigation of CSICOP/CSI helped in exposing the group's interesting but unstated connections to the U.S. government:
A charitable view of the BAUT crowd is that [they are] simply zealots, another of those groups for whom scientific dogma supplies the reassuring psychological bedrock that others find in religious fundamentalism. When confronted with evidence that calls into question his core beliefs, BAUT responds—as any fundamentalist would—by rejecting the evidence.
Moreover, as I readily acknowledged in the introduction of my book, the facts I present are not, by and large, scientific data. The testimony offered by my sources is simply anecdotal evidence, often reluctantly revealed, by dozens of highly-reliable individuals whose professional responsibilities had inadvertently and unexpectedly placed them in a position to experience the UFO phenomenon within an environment inaccessible to most persons. Those who have not worked with nuclear weapons—which is to say, the vast majority of us—have obviously had no opportunity to witness UFO activity in such a highly-restricted setting.
<o
></o>Therefore, it seems to me, whether one is a scientist or a layperson, we should all at least listen to what these persons have to say. To automatically dismiss their now-numerous, detailed accounts of UFO encounters at nuclear weapons sites as mere fantasies, or fabrications, is to suggest that those who held the fate of the entire planet in their hands during the Cold War were dangerously demented or otherwise untrustworthy. Surely, this was not the case. <o
></o><o
></o>In my view, the collective weight of the testimony offered by my former and retired military sources should at least give pause to even the most skeptical scientist and, hopefully, cause him or her to consider the subject of UFOs in a new light. Here, I am employing astronomer Bernard Haisch’s definition of a true skeptic, and am not referring to those close-minded debunkers whose preconceived notions and uninformed opinions about UFOs remain an unfortunate impediment to the eventual scientific understanding of the phenomenon.
Lastly, Helix, I know an individual named Garath, as opposed to Gareth with an "e", which probably accounts for my spelling our Gareth's name incorrectly (for which I apologize). But thanks anyway for your oh-so-scientific analysis of my slip. You are clearly an scholar with fascinating insights.
--Robert Hastings
ufohastings.com
Strewth Mate,The drongo was a flamin galah.....
Kered
Paranormal Novice
There could be the possibility that out of the general morass humanity creates for itself there really are some aspects to observing this planet / human race which actually determines the perceived lack of interaction on the part of ET, one of these could be elements of "culture" which Technically advanced civilizations have missed out on while engaged towards a Mechanical-Technical nirvana.
In our case these aspects initiate a form of "prime directive" e.g. where the skys over Las Vegas (and its proximity to area 51) could also be a convenient parking lot for ET to watch and wonder upon, as they set their gaze upon the fantasy land spread out in all its gaudy splendor before them,
and in all irony one reason why we haven't been wiped out/assimilated already, ?
In our case these aspects initiate a form of "prime directive" e.g. where the skys over Las Vegas (and its proximity to area 51) could also be a convenient parking lot for ET to watch and wonder upon, as they set their gaze upon the fantasy land spread out in all its gaudy splendor before them,
and in all irony one reason why we haven't been wiped out/assimilated already, ?
Siani
Despiser of religious nuts
Aaargh! It's Alf from Home & Away.
I missed the drama with Helix - but it's nice to see he's gone. His sort are very tedious, because they clearly only join forums to try to disrupt them.
Robert Hastings
Skilled Investigator
A temporary departure from the UFO/Nukes theme:
MORE BS FROM ROBERT “CONDOR” COLLINS
REGARDING MJ-12, THE BENNEWITZ AFFAIR,<O</O
</OAND HIS DISINFORMATION-BASED BOOK <O</O
</OEXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE <O</O
</OCO-AUTHORED WITH RICHARD “FALCON” DOTY<O</O
</O<O> </O>
> </O><O
> </O>EMAIL EXCHANGE BETWEEN ROBERT M. COLLINS (Mc or Rmc) AND ROBERT L. HASTINGS ON 2/28/09, BETWEEN 12:07 AND 5:55 P.M. MST:<O
></O><O
> </O><O
> </O>----- Original Message ----- <O
></O>From: Robert M. Collins<O
></O>To: Robert Hastings<O
></O>Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 12:06 PM<O
></O>Subject: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, ffice:smarttags" /><ST1
lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O><O
> </O>Robert Hastings, in your book UFOs and Nukes, page 118 there is mention by a USAF source of a 3 GHZ signal emitted by UFOs. The same mention is made in the book below on page 158 by a LANL tech report (Eben Craft # 2) sent by Charles, a <ST1
lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace> contact source. The LANL tech report covers an Alien craft made before we invented flight according to Charles.....Best...Rmchttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0976642638/102-2199246-9444902?n=283155<O
></O><O
> </O>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O
></O><O
> </O>----- Original Message ----- <O
></O>From: Robert Hastings<O
></O>To: Robert M. Collins<O
></O>Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 12:16 PM<O
></O>Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <ST1
lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O><O
> </O>The problem, Mr. Collins, is that valid data has often been mixed with bogus data--disinformation--as you would certainly know.<O
></O><O
></O>I recommend that the other recipients of this email read my 1989 paper, "The MJ-12 Affair: Facts, Questions, Comments," which is now online, before accepting at face value anything Mr. Collins has to say.<O
></O><O
></O>Robert Hastings<O
></O>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O
></O><O
> </O>----- Original Message ----- <O
></O>From: Robert M. Collins<O
></O>To: Robert Hastings<O
></O>Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 12:37 PM<O
></O>Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <ST1
lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O><O
> </O>Know that as you say, I did my research as Bob & Ryan Wood did. On page 26 of the same book there are two sources to back that doc up, one a FOIA source and the other a book reference.
Been dealing with disinfo since I was at FTD. And, those vaults at WP are backed up by 30 years of experience by a WP gov employee (degree in Architectural Engineering) who still works there, knows WP inside out.
Homework is done, just pointed out a correspondence between two sources which I though you'd appreciate, maybe not from the sound of it?......Rmc<O
></O><O
> </O>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O
></O><O
> </O>----- Original Message ----- <O
></O>From: Robert Hastings<O
></O>To: Robert M. Collins<O
></O>Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <ST1
lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O><O
> </O>Whatever, Condor...<O
></O><O
> </O>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O
></O><O
> </O>----- Original Message ----- <O
></O>From: Robert M. Collins<O
></O>To: Robert Hastings<O
></O>Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 1:04 PM<O
></O>Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <ST1
lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O><O
> </O>I thought you wouldn't listen, I expected better, becoming just like everybody else who wants to argue and fight, a real shame when the initial intent was to put heads together.......Rmc<O
></O><O
> </O>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O
></O><O
> </O>----- Original Message ----- <O
></O>From: Robert Hastings<O
></O>To: Robert M. Collins<O
></O>Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 1:12 PM<O
></O>Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <ST1
lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O><O
> </O>P.S. The steaming load that Falcon and Condor dropped on the world in "Exempt from Disclosure" is about to be cleaned up by another author, whose book will be out soon. His findings relating to the Paul Bennewitz affair closely mirror my own. <O
></O><O
></O>In the interim, please read Robert J. Durant's IUR article on the Doty/Collins book. I don't know if it's online but, if not, I can provide y'all with Durant's email address. I'm sure he would be happy to forward it to you.<O
></O><O
></O>Finally, I will have a great deal more to say about the MJ-12 fantasy in the future. I was privy to lots of insiders' accounts relating to Doty's and Moore's nefarious activities at Kirtland/Sandia in the 1980s, from persons they tried to dupe, with mixed success.<O
></O><O
></O>But that's a long story...<O
></O><O
> </O>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Part 2 to follow. --RH<O
></O>Robert Hastings
Skilled Investigator
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert M. Collins<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O></O>
To: Robert Hastings<O></O>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 1:47 PM<O></O>
Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, Los Alamos
<O></O>
That's extremely distorted and wrong. Both Bob and Ryan Wood have done tremendous work on all those MJ12 documents especially the SOM1-01. As Bob Wood said there is enough forensics on the SOM1-01 to stand up in a court of law.
As for the Bennewitz case enough is enough, all those claims and accusations are false, they are a mix of innuendos with name calling, not the facts. There is a whole chapter in the EfD book devoted to Rick Doty and part of that covers the Bennewitz case. Paul Bennewitz made himself crazy, I stood there and watched it in 1987 while at his house in Alb.
People just make things up, utter trash is what it is, like so much trash on the Internet. I know what you and others say and it's wrong.
And, it was no secret that Rick Doty worked for AFOSI CI. That was his job, he job was to protect national security, you call it misleading, but the government called it national security.
Rick Doty left that job in Nov 1988. He is now retired, no connections to his former job, it's been that way for over 20 years.
You want to beat a Dead Horse with the same malicious sick attitude that a lot of so called UFOlogist have. I'm not one of them/those...A new resurrected Linda Howe who according to Ron R can't investigate much of anything lately except be malicious......Rmc<O></O>
<O></O>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O></O>
----- Original Message ----- <O></O>
From: Robert M. Collins<O></O>
To: Robert Hastings<O></O>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:01 PM<O></O>
Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O>
<O></O>
Added: It seems to follow that typical pattern or "I've got all the answers" and everybody else is wrong. Got news, you are not the only one nor are sources the only sources or Abductees the only Abductees. So, like others get off that pedestal....Rmc<O></O>
<O></O>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O></O>
<O></O>
----- Original Message ----- <O></O>
From: Robert Hastings<O></O>
To: Robert M. Collins<O></O>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:04 PM<O></O>
Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <ST1lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O>
<O></O>
Whatever, Condor,<O></O>
<O></O>
With the release of UFOs and Nukes, people now have an example of my factual, well-documented research against which they can evaluate my other contentions, published and unpublished.<O></O>
<O></O>
There will always be those who fall for your and Doty's and Moore's BS. Not my problem. If I can save Edgar Mitchell and a few others from your clutches, I will be satisfied. <O></O>
<O></O>
If I hadn't circulated my 1989 paper, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
</st1:City>Moore probably would have never confessed to your MJ-12 disinfo scheme at the MUFON conference in <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1lace w:st="on">Las Vegas</ST1lace></st1:City>. Even though he didn't entirely come clean, just as you and Doty didn't in your book, it was a start.<O></O>
<O></O>
Robert Hastings<O></O>
<O></O>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O></O>
<O></O>
----- Original Message ----- <O></O>
From: Robert M. Collins<O></O>
To: Robert Hastings<O></O>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:21 PM<O></O>
Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <ST1lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O>
<O></O>
Your book has a lot of stuff that's in other books. With your attitude I'm sorry I ever said anything good about it. And like many other less than stupid acting people do you really understand what went on there? Do you?
What did <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1lace w:st="on">Moore</ST1lace></st1:City> say, I read that his MUFON paper too. He said he WORKED with AFOSI to understand how they operated, as Bill explained, "to understand the enemy you have to work with them, you have to understand how they dispense disinformation." Knowing your enemy is how you defeat them. I went through the same learning curves.....
These type of arguments are old arguments, beating a dead horse......Rmc<O></O>
<O></O>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O></O>
<O></O>
----- Original Message ----- <O></O>
From: Robert Hastings<O></O>
To: Robert M. Collins<O></O>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:47 PM<O></O>
Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <ST1lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O>
<O></O>
Let's see, Condor, who should we put under oath first?<O></O>
<O></O>
Linda Howe, who told me in a taped telephone conversation that you and one of the other disinfoids met with her in Albuquerque, in November 1988, at which time she was presented with bogus MJ-12-related material? <O></O>
<O></O>
Jog a memory, Condor?<O></O>
<O></O>
Or, maybe, Michael Seligman, the producer of "UFO Cover-up? Live" who is on-the-record as saying that you were the person his team photographed back-lit and voice-altered, and presented in the guise of "Condor"? <O></O>
<O></O>
As you know, the other back-lit person in that ridiculous disinfofest--in which the claim was made that aliens loved Tibetan music and strawberry ice cream--was Richard Doty, according to Seligman. And who assigned those boid names to you and Doty, according to Seligman? Why Bill Moore, of course.<O></O>
<O></O>
Ring a bell, Condor?<O></O>
<O></O>
There's much more, of course, but that would be telling. Be patient.<O></O>
<O></O>
BTW, under oath, lies become perjury, Condor.<O></O>
<O></O>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O></O>
<O></O>
----- Original Message ----- <O></O>
From: Robert M. Collins<O></O>
To: Robert Hastings<O></O>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 3:02 PM<O></O>
Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <ST1lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O>
<O></O>
Robert Hastings wrote: <O></O>
<O></O>
Let's see, Condor, who should we put under oath first?<O></O>
<O></O>
Linda Howe, who told me in a taped telephone conversation that you and one of the other disinfoids met with her in Albuquerque, in November 1988, at which time she was presented with bogus MJ-12-related material?<O></O>
<O></O>
Rmc: Will the rumors ever stop? In Nov '88 I was out of the AF and gone from Alb. Linda has a hard time getting her facts right. And never showed Linda anything related to Mj12 when she was at the house in '87....Rmc
<O></O>
Jog a memory, Condor?<O></O>
<O></O>
Or, maybe, Michael Seligman, the producer of "UFO Cover-up? Live" who is on-the-record as saying that you were the person his team photographed back-lit and voice-altered, and presented in the guise of "Condor"? <O></O>
<O></O>
Rmc: Yes, ALL that is covered in the book with all the other players and meetings. Instead of bashing, the book tells it all....Stan Friedman has a copy of the 2008 edition.....Rmc
<O></O>
As you know, the other back-lit person in that ridiculous disinfofest--in which the claim was made that aliens loved Tibetan music and strawberry ice cream--was Richard Doty, according to Seligman. And who assigned those boid names to you and Doty, according to Seligman? Why Bill Moore, of course.<O></O>
<O></O>
Yes, it's ALL in the book, every detail.....Rmc<O></O>
<O></O>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O></O>
<O>Part 3 follows on page 18:</O>
<O></O>
From: Robert M. Collins<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O
></O>To: Robert Hastings<O
></O>Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 1:47 PM<O
></O>Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, Los Alamos
<O
></O>That's extremely distorted and wrong. Both Bob and Ryan Wood have done tremendous work on all those MJ12 documents especially the SOM1-01. As Bob Wood said there is enough forensics on the SOM1-01 to stand up in a court of law.
As for the Bennewitz case enough is enough, all those claims and accusations are false, they are a mix of innuendos with name calling, not the facts. There is a whole chapter in the EfD book devoted to Rick Doty and part of that covers the Bennewitz case. Paul Bennewitz made himself crazy, I stood there and watched it in 1987 while at his house in Alb.
People just make things up, utter trash is what it is, like so much trash on the Internet. I know what you and others say and it's wrong.
And, it was no secret that Rick Doty worked for AFOSI CI. That was his job, he job was to protect national security, you call it misleading, but the government called it national security.
Rick Doty left that job in Nov 1988. He is now retired, no connections to his former job, it's been that way for over 20 years.
You want to beat a Dead Horse with the same malicious sick attitude that a lot of so called UFOlogist have. I'm not one of them/those...A new resurrected Linda Howe who according to Ron R can't investigate much of anything lately except be malicious......Rmc<O
></O><O
></O>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O
></O>----- Original Message ----- <O
></O>From: Robert M. Collins<O
></O>To: Robert Hastings<O
></O>Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:01 PM<O
></O>Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1
lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O><O
></O>Added: It seems to follow that typical pattern or "I've got all the answers" and everybody else is wrong. Got news, you are not the only one nor are sources the only sources or Abductees the only Abductees. So, like others get off that pedestal....Rmc<O
></O><O
></O>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O
></O><O
></O>----- Original Message ----- <O
></O>From: Robert Hastings<O
></O>To: Robert M. Collins<O
></O>Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:04 PM<O
></O>Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <ST1
lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O><O
></O>Whatever, Condor,<O
></O><O
></O>With the release of UFOs and Nukes, people now have an example of my factual, well-documented research against which they can evaluate my other contentions, published and unpublished.<O
></O><O
></O>There will always be those who fall for your and Doty's and Moore's BS. Not my problem. If I can save Edgar Mitchell and a few others from your clutches, I will be satisfied. <O
></O><O
></O>If I hadn't circulated my 1989 paper, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
lace w:st="on">Las Vegas</ST1lace></st1:City>. Even though he didn't entirely come clean, just as you and Doty didn't in your book, it was a start.<O></O><O
></O>Robert Hastings<O
></O><O
></O>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O
></O><O
></O>----- Original Message ----- <O
></O>From: Robert M. Collins<O
></O>To: Robert Hastings<O
></O>Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:21 PM<O
></O>Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <ST1
lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O><O
></O>Your book has a lot of stuff that's in other books. With your attitude I'm sorry I ever said anything good about it. And like many other less than stupid acting people do you really understand what went on there? Do you?
What did <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1
lace w:st="on">Moore</ST1lace></st1:City> say, I read that his MUFON paper too. He said he WORKED with AFOSI to understand how they operated, as Bill explained, "to understand the enemy you have to work with them, you have to understand how they dispense disinformation." Knowing your enemy is how you defeat them. I went through the same learning curves.....These type of arguments are old arguments, beating a dead horse......Rmc<O
></O><O
></O>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O
></O><O
></O>----- Original Message ----- <O
></O>From: Robert Hastings<O
></O>To: Robert M. Collins<O
></O>Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:47 PM<O
></O>Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <ST1
lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O><O
></O>Let's see, Condor, who should we put under oath first?<O
></O><O
></O>Linda Howe, who told me in a taped telephone conversation that you and one of the other disinfoids met with her in Albuquerque, in November 1988, at which time she was presented with bogus MJ-12-related material? <O
></O><O
></O>Jog a memory, Condor?<O
></O><O
></O>Or, maybe, Michael Seligman, the producer of "UFO Cover-up? Live" who is on-the-record as saying that you were the person his team photographed back-lit and voice-altered, and presented in the guise of "Condor"? <O
></O><O
></O>As you know, the other back-lit person in that ridiculous disinfofest--in which the claim was made that aliens loved Tibetan music and strawberry ice cream--was Richard Doty, according to Seligman. And who assigned those boid names to you and Doty, according to Seligman? Why Bill Moore, of course.<O
></O><O
></O>Ring a bell, Condor?<O
></O><O
></O>There's much more, of course, but that would be telling. Be patient.<O
></O><O
></O>BTW, under oath, lies become perjury, Condor.<O
></O><O
></O>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O
></O><O
></O>----- Original Message ----- <O
></O>From: Robert M. Collins<O
></O>To: Robert Hastings<O
></O>Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 3:02 PM<O
></O>Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <ST1
lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O><O
></O>Robert Hastings wrote: <O
></O><O
></O>Let's see, Condor, who should we put under oath first?<O
></O><O
></O>Linda Howe, who told me in a taped telephone conversation that you and one of the other disinfoids met with her in Albuquerque, in November 1988, at which time she was presented with bogus MJ-12-related material?<O
></O><O
></O>Rmc: Will the rumors ever stop? In Nov '88 I was out of the AF and gone from Alb. Linda has a hard time getting her facts right. And never showed Linda anything related to Mj12 when she was at the house in '87....Rmc
<O
></O>Jog a memory, Condor?<O
></O><O
></O>Or, maybe, Michael Seligman, the producer of "UFO Cover-up? Live" who is on-the-record as saying that you were the person his team photographed back-lit and voice-altered, and presented in the guise of "Condor"? <O
></O><O
></O>Rmc: Yes, ALL that is covered in the book with all the other players and meetings. Instead of bashing, the book tells it all....Stan Friedman has a copy of the 2008 edition.....Rmc
<O
></O>As you know, the other back-lit person in that ridiculous disinfofest--in which the claim was made that aliens loved Tibetan music and strawberry ice cream--was Richard Doty, according to Seligman. And who assigned those boid names to you and Doty, according to Seligman? Why Bill Moore, of course.<O
></O><O
></O>Yes, it's ALL in the book, every detail.....Rmc<O
></O><O
></O>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O
></O><O
>Part 3 follows on page 18:</O><O
></O>Robert Hastings
Skilled Investigator
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O></O>
----- Original Message ----- <O></O>
From: Robert Hastings<O></O>
To: Robert M. Collins<O></O>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 3:58 PM<O></O>
Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, Los Alamos<O></O>
<O></O>
<O></O>
Rmc: Will the rumors ever stop? In Nov '88 I was out of the AF and gone from Alb. Linda has a hard time getting her facts right. And never showed Linda anything related to Mj12 when she was at the house in '87<O></O>
<O></O>
Perhaps it was Nov. 87. I would have to review the tape. It's been awhile. <O></O>
<O></O>
So, you're characterizing Linda's direct, taped statements to me as "rumors"? Did I misunderstand?<O></O>
<O></O>
Cutting to the chase: I am hereby calling you a disinformation agent whose efforts hardly ended in the 1980s. I will have much more to say on the subject in the future. <O></O>
<O></O>
So, if you find this libelous, Mr. Collins, the ball is in your court. Speaking of court, placing people under oath in a court of law has a marvelous way of getting to the bottom of things. I have been waiting for closure on all of this MJ-12 crap for years. Maybe the time has come. Let's dance, Condor.<O></O>
<O></O>
Robert Hastings<O></O>
<O></O>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O></O>
<O></O>
----- Original Message ----- <O></O>
From: Robert M. Collins<O></O>
To: Robert Hastings<O></O>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 4:22 PM<O></O>
Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O>
<O></O>
Robert Hastings wrote: <O></O>
<O></O>
Perhaps it was Nov. 87. I would have to review the tape. It's been awhile.<O></O>
<O></O>
Try the Spring of '87....Rmc <O></O>
<O></O>
[I just reviewed the tape and it was indeed November 1987, and Collins did indeed show Linda MJ-12 related material and vouched for it. He also told Howe about a live alien supposedly living at <ST1lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>. --RH 3/4/09]
So, you're characterizing Linda's direct, taped statements to me as "rumors"? Did I misunderstand?<O></O>
<O></O>
Cutting to the chase: I am hereby calling you a disinformation agent whose efforts hardly ended in the 1980s. I will have much more to say on the subject in the future.
Rmc: Then you'll have to call both Hal Puthoff, Kit Green, disinformation too, they are in the book. Then you're starting to sound like the typical fruitcake....And I never worked in CI, I was at the Air Force Weapons Lab as a Physicist. FTD as an analyst. So you're off on all counts.
Rmc: You should write more books about, "Lights in the Sky," keep you out of trouble
<O></O>
So, if you find this libelous, Mr. Collins, the ball is in your court. Speaking of court, placing people under oath in a court of law has a marvelous way of getting to the bottom of things. I have been waiting for closure on all of this MJ-12 crap for years. Maybe the time has come. Let's dance, Condor.<O></O>
<O></O>
Robert Hastings<O></O>
<O></O>
Could care less whether you believe it or not just like believing sources in your book. And, talk to Bob Wood about Mj12.....Rmc
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O></O>
<O></O>
----- Original Message ----- <O></O>
From: Robert Hastings<O></O>
To: To: Robert M. Collins<O></O>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 4:24 PM<O></O>
Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <ST1lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O>
<O></O>
Is that a "yes" or a "no"? Do you wish to pursue this in a legal venue?<O></O>
<O></O>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O></O>
<O></O>
----- Original Message ----- <O></O>
From: Robert M. Collins<O></O>
To: Robert Hastings<O></O>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 5:03 PM<O></O>
Subject: That's where this conversation started and that's where it will end....<O></O>
<O></O>
I think the people on this list are getting very tired of this as I am. My DD214 below proves who I am. As they say this conversation is getting less than stupid, so thanks for your USAF source in the book over the 3GHZ signal from UFOs. That's how this conversation got started and that's where it will end....Rmc
http://www.ufoconspiracy.com/misc/dd214-rmc-sanitized.jpg<O<b>></O<b>
<O></O>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O></O>
<O></O>
----- Original Message ----- <O></O>
From: Robert Hastings<O></O>
To: Robert M. Collins<O></O>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 5:55 PM<O></O>
Subject: Re: That's where this conversation started and that's where it will end....<O></O>
<O></O>
Well, Mr. Collins, that's exactly the kind of weasel-worded response I expected. In the past, other persons have misjudged my hard-charging manner for bluff, much to their regret. <O></O>
<O></O>
Because you have characterized me as a "fruitcake" to the persons cc:d on this exchange—some of whom I respect greatly—you have already defamed me. <O></O>
<O></O>
Because the value of my research and public speaking depends on my reputation for careful investigation and credible findings, your comment may be fairly considered as an attack on that reputation.<O></O>
<O></O>
So, be advised, Mr. Collins, I will closely monitor your future online comments regarding me. Should you libel me further, it will not be your choice, but mine, as to whether I will see you and your cohorts in court.<O></O>
<O></O>
My already-planned visit to the New Mexico ACLU, to discuss related matters, will now include an additional subject for discussion.<O></O>
<O></O>
Robert Hastings<O></O>
<O></O>
END OF EXCHANGE<O></O>
<O></O>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O></O>
3/4/09<O></O>
<O></O>
To Everyone Who Reads This:<O></O>
<O></O>
PLEASE CIRCULATE THIS MATERIAL AS WIDELY AS POSSIBLE. LEGITIMATE UFOLOGISTS AND OTHERS MUST CONTINUE TO EXPOSE AND CHALLENGE THE DISINFORMATION THAT ROBERT COLLINS AND RICHARD DOTY CONTINUE TO SPREAD ON THE INTERNET AND ELSEWHERE.<O></O>
<O></O>
DID YOU NOTICE HOW CONDOR/COLLINS SIDESTEPPED THE OPPORTUNITY I GAVE HIM TO MEET ME IN A COURT OF LAW, WHERE HE WOULD BE FORCED TO REPEAT HIS AND DOTY’S MANY BOGUS CLAIMS UNDER OATH? <O></O>
<O></O>
I WONDER WHY?<O></O>
<O></O>
I AM CURRENTLY WORKING ON AN ARTICLE WHICH WILL ADDRESS COLLINS’ (AND DOTY’S AND BILL MOORE’S) MANY BASELESS CLAIMS ABOUT MJ-12 AND OTHER UFO-RELATED MATTERS. <O></O>
<O></O>
IT WILL BE TITLED, “OPERATION BIRD DROPPINGS.” SEARCH FOR IT!<O></O>
<O></O>
<O></O>
--Robert Hastings, researcher, author
UFOs and Nukes: Extraordinary Encounters at Nuclear Weapons Sites<O></O>
ufohastings.com
<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O
></O>----- Original Message ----- <O
></O>From: Robert Hastings<O
></O>To: Robert M. Collins<O
></O>Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 3:58 PM<O
></O>Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, Los Alamos<O
></O><O
></O><O
></O>Rmc: Will the rumors ever stop? In Nov '88 I was out of the AF and gone from Alb. Linda has a hard time getting her facts right. And never showed Linda anything related to Mj12 when she was at the house in '87<O
></O><O
></O>Perhaps it was Nov. 87. I would have to review the tape. It's been awhile. <O
></O><O
></O>So, you're characterizing Linda's direct, taped statements to me as "rumors"? Did I misunderstand?<O
></O><O
></O>Cutting to the chase: I am hereby calling you a disinformation agent whose efforts hardly ended in the 1980s. I will have much more to say on the subject in the future. <O
></O><O
></O>So, if you find this libelous, Mr. Collins, the ball is in your court. Speaking of court, placing people under oath in a court of law has a marvelous way of getting to the bottom of things. I have been waiting for closure on all of this MJ-12 crap for years. Maybe the time has come. Let's dance, Condor.<O
></O><O
></O>Robert Hastings<O
></O><O
></O>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O
></O><O
></O>----- Original Message ----- <O
></O>From: Robert M. Collins<O
></O>To: Robert Hastings<O
></O>Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 4:22 PM<O
></O>Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1
lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O><O
></O>Robert Hastings wrote: <O
></O><O
></O>Perhaps it was Nov. 87. I would have to review the tape. It's been awhile.<O
></O><O
></O>Try the Spring of '87....Rmc <O
></O><O
></O>[I just reviewed the tape and it was indeed November 1987, and Collins did indeed show Linda MJ-12 related material and vouched for it. He also told Howe about a live alien supposedly living at <ST1
lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>. --RH 3/4/09]So, you're characterizing Linda's direct, taped statements to me as "rumors"? Did I misunderstand?<O
></O><O
></O>Cutting to the chase: I am hereby calling you a disinformation agent whose efforts hardly ended in the 1980s. I will have much more to say on the subject in the future.
Rmc: Then you'll have to call both Hal Puthoff, Kit Green, disinformation too, they are in the book. Then you're starting to sound like the typical fruitcake....And I never worked in CI, I was at the Air Force Weapons Lab as a Physicist. FTD as an analyst. So you're off on all counts.
Rmc: You should write more books about, "Lights in the Sky," keep you out of trouble
<O
></O>So, if you find this libelous, Mr. Collins, the ball is in your court. Speaking of court, placing people under oath in a court of law has a marvelous way of getting to the bottom of things. I have been waiting for closure on all of this MJ-12 crap for years. Maybe the time has come. Let's dance, Condor.<O
></O><O
></O>Robert Hastings<O
></O><O
></O>Could care less whether you believe it or not just like believing sources in your book. And, talk to Bob Wood about Mj12.....Rmc
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O
></O><O
></O>----- Original Message ----- <O
></O>From: Robert Hastings<O
></O>To: To: Robert M. Collins<O
></O>Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 4:24 PM<O
></O>Subject: Re: UFOs & Nukes...... Exempt from Disclosure: The Black World of UFOs: WP Vaults & Roswell, Site 51, <ST1
lace w:st="on">Los Alamos</ST1lace>: Robert M. Collins, Richard C. Doty: Books<O></O><O
></O>Is that a "yes" or a "no"? Do you wish to pursue this in a legal venue?<O
></O><O
></O>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O
></O><O
></O>----- Original Message ----- <O
></O>From: Robert M. Collins<O
></O>To: Robert Hastings<O
></O>Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 5:03 PM<O
></O>Subject: That's where this conversation started and that's where it will end....<O
></O><O
></O>I think the people on this list are getting very tired of this as I am. My DD214 below proves who I am. As they say this conversation is getting less than stupid, so thanks for your USAF source in the book over the 3GHZ signal from UFOs. That's how this conversation got started and that's where it will end....Rmc
http://www.ufoconspiracy.com/misc/dd214-rmc-sanitized.jpg<O
<b>></O<b><O
></O>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O
></O><O
></O>----- Original Message ----- <O
></O>From: Robert Hastings<O
></O>To: Robert M. Collins<O
></O>Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 5:55 PM<O
></O>Subject: Re: That's where this conversation started and that's where it will end....<O
></O><O
></O>Well, Mr. Collins, that's exactly the kind of weasel-worded response I expected. In the past, other persons have misjudged my hard-charging manner for bluff, much to their regret. <O
></O><O
></O>Because you have characterized me as a "fruitcake" to the persons cc:d on this exchange—some of whom I respect greatly—you have already defamed me. <O
></O><O
></O>Because the value of my research and public speaking depends on my reputation for careful investigation and credible findings, your comment may be fairly considered as an attack on that reputation.<O
></O><O
></O>So, be advised, Mr. Collins, I will closely monitor your future online comments regarding me. Should you libel me further, it will not be your choice, but mine, as to whether I will see you and your cohorts in court.<O
></O><O
></O>My already-planned visit to the New Mexico ACLU, to discuss related matters, will now include an additional subject for discussion.<O
></O><O
></O>Robert Hastings<O
></O><O
></O>END OF EXCHANGE<O
></O><O
></O>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<O
></O>3/4/09<O
></O><O
></O>To Everyone Who Reads This:<O
></O><O
></O>PLEASE CIRCULATE THIS MATERIAL AS WIDELY AS POSSIBLE. LEGITIMATE UFOLOGISTS AND OTHERS MUST CONTINUE TO EXPOSE AND CHALLENGE THE DISINFORMATION THAT ROBERT COLLINS AND RICHARD DOTY CONTINUE TO SPREAD ON THE INTERNET AND ELSEWHERE.<O
></O><O
></O>DID YOU NOTICE HOW CONDOR/COLLINS SIDESTEPPED THE OPPORTUNITY I GAVE HIM TO MEET ME IN A COURT OF LAW, WHERE HE WOULD BE FORCED TO REPEAT HIS AND DOTY’S MANY BOGUS CLAIMS UNDER OATH? <O
></O><O
></O>I WONDER WHY?<O
></O><O
></O>I AM CURRENTLY WORKING ON AN ARTICLE WHICH WILL ADDRESS COLLINS’ (AND DOTY’S AND BILL MOORE’S) MANY BASELESS CLAIMS ABOUT MJ-12 AND OTHER UFO-RELATED MATTERS. <O
></O><O
></O>IT WILL BE TITLED, “OPERATION BIRD DROPPINGS.” SEARCH FOR IT!<O
></O><O
></O><O
></O>--Robert Hastings, researcher, author
UFOs and Nukes: Extraordinary Encounters at Nuclear Weapons Sites<O
></O>ufohastings.com
Schuyler
Misanthrope
My already-planned visit to the New Mexico ACLU, to discuss related matters, will now include an additional subject for discussion.<O
Robert,
This kinda jumped out at me. What would the ACLU have to do with any of this? I thought they were most concerned with 1st amendment issues protecting your free speech vis-a-vis the government. I'm not seeing the connection of why you would be consulting them about Condor on issues of libel (spoken lies) or slander (written lies).
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"When Moore made his confession in 1989, he stated that four other very prominent American UFO researchers were also working for AFOSI, but refused to name them." [link][/SIZE][/FONT]
Any insight on this matter Mr. Hastings?
Gareth
Nothin' to see here
The Moore were talking here is 'Bill Moore'?
Ive heard him 2 or 3 times on Greg Bishops show and I got the impression he was on this side of the fence (as opposed to the Doty side). Although he talked at length about the Bennewitz affair and MJ12 and stuff I still got the impression he believes there was indeed a group in the Govt called "Majestic", but whether or not that group had anything to do with the UFO subject is another matter all together.
Thanks for posting Robert.
Ive heard him 2 or 3 times on Greg Bishops show and I got the impression he was on this side of the fence (as opposed to the Doty side). Although he talked at length about the Bennewitz affair and MJ12 and stuff I still got the impression he believes there was indeed a group in the Govt called "Majestic", but whether or not that group had anything to do with the UFO subject is another matter all together.
Thanks for posting Robert.
Schuyler
Misanthrope
The issue with Moore is that he went over to the Dark Side by helping and participating in disinfo with Doty. He revealed this at a Mufon convention much to the shock of the audience and left without answering questions. He pretty well lost his credibility after that. He says he was trying to participate in the disinfo for the purest of reasons, including penetrating the 'cloak of secrecy' and all that, but his explanation was not well-taken by most people who were interested in the field at the time. His influence waned quickly after that incident and I think it is fair to say few people take him seriously. He certainly proved he could not be trusted; and his participating in helping to drive Bennewitz off the edge is way over the top.
Stillborn
Skilled Investigator
I still question whether he worked with the gov. as oppose to just being full of it. Is there good evidence to support his claim he dealt with gov. sponsored or encouraged disinfo.? I can't recall any, but it's been years since I read up on him in detail. If you can point me in a direction that would be great.
Stillborn
Skilled Investigator
The Truman sig, and Bill Moore's involvement kill the documents for me. The better ones that is, don't get me started on the more obvious fakes. Whether or not the gov. was involved or just a prank, or someone like Bill Moore faking them in order to smoke out more witnesses and draw attention to Roswell, I don't know.
Robert Hastings
Skilled Investigator
Hi, y'all. I was out of town for a few days, hence my delay in responding.
Schuyler, I'm not at liberty to address the reference to the ACLU at this time, but I suspect Condor/Collins got the message. Maybe I can say more later on.
Dorkbot, I have been trying to find the complete text to Moore's confession speech at the 1989 MUFON convention in Las Vegas. Can anyone assist me in this regard? As for Moore's reference to four other ufologists working with OSI, that just might have been more disinfo, to sow the seeds of paranoia in ufology's ranks. Or, maybe, there was some truth to it. I dunno. There is one other prominent ufologist on my radar screen whom I suspect might be working both sides of the fence, but I have little evidence to support my concern, so I won't say more at the moment.
However, if one reads the CIA's 1953 Robertson Panel Report, it recommended, among other things, that ufologists be put under surveillance and that ufo organizations be infiltrated by intelligence groups. So, none of us should be surprised if the spooks are among us.
As for Moore's real or supposed activities, Gareth, please read my 1989 paper, "The MJ-12 Affair: Facts, Questions, Comments," now online, and draw your own conclusions. However, IMHO, he was definitely working as an "asset" for OSI and he admitted as much at the MUFON convention. Of course, as many do not know nowadays, I outed him four months earlier by circulating my paper in the ufological community. Moore showed up unannounced at my door shortly thereafter in an effort to force me to retract my findings. Obviously, he failed and later spilled his guts. Long story, lots of details. All of this will be covered in my upcoming "Operation Bird Droppings" article.
Finally, for the record, my father, SMSgt. Robert E. Hastings, was assigned to OSI at Weisbaden AFB, Germany, from 1957 to 1960, but not as an agent.
--Robert Hastings
ufohastings.com
Schuyler, I'm not at liberty to address the reference to the ACLU at this time, but I suspect Condor/Collins got the message. Maybe I can say more later on.
Dorkbot, I have been trying to find the complete text to Moore's confession speech at the 1989 MUFON convention in Las Vegas. Can anyone assist me in this regard? As for Moore's reference to four other ufologists working with OSI, that just might have been more disinfo, to sow the seeds of paranoia in ufology's ranks. Or, maybe, there was some truth to it. I dunno. There is one other prominent ufologist on my radar screen whom I suspect might be working both sides of the fence, but I have little evidence to support my concern, so I won't say more at the moment.
However, if one reads the CIA's 1953 Robertson Panel Report, it recommended, among other things, that ufologists be put under surveillance and that ufo organizations be infiltrated by intelligence groups. So, none of us should be surprised if the spooks are among us.
As for Moore's real or supposed activities, Gareth, please read my 1989 paper, "The MJ-12 Affair: Facts, Questions, Comments," now online, and draw your own conclusions. However, IMHO, he was definitely working as an "asset" for OSI and he admitted as much at the MUFON convention. Of course, as many do not know nowadays, I outed him four months earlier by circulating my paper in the ufological community. Moore showed up unannounced at my door shortly thereafter in an effort to force me to retract my findings. Obviously, he failed and later spilled his guts. Long story, lots of details. All of this will be covered in my upcoming "Operation Bird Droppings" article.
Finally, for the record, my father, SMSgt. Robert E. Hastings, was assigned to OSI at Weisbaden AFB, Germany, from 1957 to 1960, but not as an agent.
--Robert Hastings
ufohastings.com
Robert Hastings
Skilled Investigator
Oops, the last comment directed to Gareth was meant for Stillborn.