Banned From The UFO Collective Google Group

[Jeff Davis]

I think that's relatively easily explained by highly strange stuff being overly exposed in the 80's and then being picked up by the same force that drove the satanic abuse hysteria.

I have no doubt that some people were abused. Then it all snowballed with well-meaning but overly histrionic melodrama that culminated in:

Official investigations produced no evidence of widespread conspiracies or of the slaughter of thousands; only a small number of verified crimes have even remote similarities to tales of SRA. In the latter half of the 1990s interest in SRA declined and skepticism became the default position, with only a minority of believers giving any credence to the existence of SRA.
Satanic ritual abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Similarities abound. But this of course does not mean that something is not going on, just not to trust the meta-narrative expounded by (perhaps well-intentioned) "researchers", "interviewers", "hypnotherapists", etc.

Simply put: you gotta go to the source, man. Not the people who talk to people or people who write about people who talk to people.

FFS, crap happened to me and I have no idea or monopoly on the truth. Why should Hopkins, Jacobs, or any of them?

Bingo! At least they put forth the effort, and IMO, accomplished enough to merit further investigation. That in and of itself is a potential that cannot be reconciled to that of a charlatan. The information that they have provided is potentially flawed, but it would be INSANE to declare the entire matter a product of the imagination. That's thoroughly illogical as the imagination does not mimic, it creates. Patterns are not copied via imagination. Imagination is unique to the individual.

 

[trainedobserver]

Good point, hadn't thought of that. However, what does it change?

I don't know, our assumptions maybe. One of the assumptions is that that the government knows that all of this taking place. If they do then they realize steps would have to be taken to secure the command structure. It seems highly improbable that such a threat would be brushed aside for any reason, including the "Gee, who do I tell?" problem. Those guys don't shut their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears, and sing la, la, la, when national security is concerned. To think that a foreign power would be allowed to operate aircraft in our national airspace or that said aircraft would be allowed to conduct abductions on a massive scale is totally unrealistic. Either command and control is already under direct influence of this foreign power or no such thing is known or suspected in the first place.

 

[mike]

In answer to the question how much sperm and eggs do they need again, Ive noticed a tendancy in the way these questions are framed to lump ET into a single basket.

If we are dealing with extra-terrestrials, then is its likely we are dealing with multiple societys, and that these societys will be vastly larger than our single planetary one.
Multiple societys with populations in the hundreds of billions.........

Each with their own motivations and agendas and resource shopping lists

Some might simply want to top up their reaction mass tanks with some hydrogen and or tritium
Others might seek to store data via DNA
Others to collect starter cells for the replicant process
Others to hybridise their biological aspects in order to capatise on the process of heterosis aka hybrid vigour
Some may just want to study and catalog new life forms
The list goes on and on

Its a mistake imo to try and interpret the motivations of these alleged visitors via the filter of our single species/planetary society

 

[manxman]

or it could be a beautiful blue planet stuck in the middle of nowhere that is just an interesting looksee, on the way by.

 

[mike]

I don't know, our assumptions maybe. One of the assumptions is that that the government knows that all of this taking place. If they do then they realize steps would have to be taken to secure the command structure. It seems highly improbable that such a threat would be brushed aside for any reason, including the "Gee, who do I tell?" problem. Those guys don't shut their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears, and sing la, la, la, when national security is concerned. To think that a foreign power would be allowed to operate aircraft in our national airspace or that said aircraft would be allowed to conduct abductions on a massive scale is totally unrealistic. Either command and control is already under direct influence of this foreign power or no such thing is known or suspected in the first place.

And thats another aspect yet again, as J.F. mentioned in his recent spot on the show, it does seem as if the PTB have taken a better safe than sorry attitude and have decided its wise to try and find defense strategys to counter them.
We may well be looking at a very subtle invasion from one or more ET societys.
His comments on the cold war agression for example, try and take us and we can destroy this planet 3 times over.

In this scenario Jacobs hybrids make sense as part of a Stealth/DNA invasion

But if this is the case , then the atomic dead mans switch is about all we could deploy against them.

Fail-deadly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What chance would we have against a transbiological ET society/s that commands the resources of multiple planetary systems with populations in the hundreds of billions, the vast majority of which are "immortal" by means of substrate independance.

 

[marduk]

I don't know, our assumptions maybe. One of the assumptions is that that the government knows that all of this taking place. If they do then they realize steps would have to be taken to secure the command structure. It seems highly improbable that such a threat would be brushed aside for any reason, including the "Gee, who do I tell?" problem. Those guys don't shut their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears, and sing la, la, la, when national security is concerned. To think that a foreign power would be allowed to operate aircraft in our national airspace or that said aircraft would be allowed to conduct abductions on a massive scale is totally unrealistic. Either command and control is already under direct influence of this foreign power or no such thing is known or suspected in the first place.

I have to challenge that.

Hell, 9-11 proved that they do indeed shut their eyes and stick their fingers in their ears to national security threats when they don't know what to do about it, or aren't sure if it's happening at all.

It's not like highly placed guys in the pentagon have a hotline to call to "1-800-BLAK-OPS" to report an abduction.

I do however think that they have looked at good evidence, and there are various (smallish) covert attempts to investigate or recreate what people report. There must be gun-camera footage, etc. I'm sure there are well written contingency plans in a Cheyenne Mountain file cabinet somewhere marked "read if the aliens invade." But any large coordinated response to an existing threat would have to include proving that the threat exists at all in the first place. All it would take is one general, one senator, one congressman to say "prove it" and the whole multibillion dollar boondoggle would come down around your ears. This of course doesn't mean that black budget pet projects don't exist that could provide illuminating data...

But your government and mine has proved time and time again it will indeed turn a blind eye to crap it can't deal with, can't prove, or is a political hot potato.

 

[mike]

I don't know, our assumptions maybe. One of the assumptions is that that the government knows that all of this taking place. If they do then they realize steps would have to be taken to secure the command structure. It seems highly improbable that such a threat would be brushed aside for any reason, including the "Gee, who do I tell?" problem. Those guys don't shut their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears, and sing la, la, la, when national security is concerned. To think that a foreign power would be allowed to operate aircraft in our national airspace or that said aircraft would be allowed to conduct abductions on a massive scale is totally unrealistic. Either command and control is already under direct influence of this foreign power or no such thing is known or suspected in the first place.

Also keep in mind this is not national security, its planetary security.
And we are far from being a unified planetary society.

Now it may be as J.F. proposed that this is a theatrical display designed to make us look dangerous

But if not, no single nation could hope to fight openly, a war of two fronts, both domestic and foriegn so to speak

 

[nameless]

When did it start?

Was it when we started wearing hats and then the worry set in that my hair started falling out? Standing on the tall glass prescient epitaph of the world bank, my noose tie blown' in the wind, maybe thats when. When the market manipulations imploded perhaps?

It was necessary to poison the sky to survive, to poison the land to survive, to poison the meat to survive. We started using things that changed us genetically, we didn't know when or how or what if. The plastics degraded, the petro chemicals that became part of the eco system that destroyed our sex made us impersonal, asexual, one sex, no personality, no war no distinction.

There is no past, present or future. Only now. Save humanity(?) My hair has all gone now, its too hot. Hiding from the sun has made my skin pale, almost grey. Its too hot so we live under ground. My eyes have grown accustomed to the artificial light, they are a lot bigger now, my size a lot smaller. I don't need clothes its so hot. I don't speak much anymore now that its only I. There is no need so my mouth has shrivelled up, technology does that to you, the web brain direct link straight in there neural net that is one consciousness, pointless now anyway, telepathy. This isn't living, this wasn't life, we started things that we didn't know would become, come to , come to this, this? Now that everything is one, now we are one, maybe its not too late. Time now in its solidity is the cooling precipitation to the steaming vapour of information and ideas that made us change. I can see all of it like a cubist painting. Where will I go? What can I change? How can I change it? We can map these changes through the land, through the food chain, through the cattle, through the gene pool into before when I was we. Then maybe we can die a better way.

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

So, in your estimation we should ignore those claiming abductions and insist that they seek mental health help?

I wonder if we should start insisting on victim substantiation prior to reporting rape too? I mean it's all hypothetical till we know the facts unquestionably right? These people have no business spouting off minus proof. Why take them seriously?


I don't think it's fair to claim anyone is "promoting" alien abduction because they are researching the matter and reporting what is conveyed to them via hypnosis. That's kind of like stating doctors are promoting disease because they study them and seek to cure as much.

So you think the alien abduction scenario feeds and preys on low self esteem individuals suffering an identity crisis?

See, that's where I wonder how we come to our mindset, if we can't believe the possibility of abduction then what can we believe? We've always known theirs flaws in our criminal systems, flaws in human behavior ie., government, large organizations, basically anything where we rely on witness testimony to relaying original info. But...for the most part it's served us extremely well to survive as a species. And we're only getting better at the techniques we use to make it better. So there has to be some sort of fundamental trust in order for us to continue functioning as a species. We've also got scores of data to show that whenever we look at an unknown phenomena , as humans we look for the most practical explanations possible, even at the expense of the one suffering from the problem. Depression, just 70 yrs ago could get you a lobotomy and the rest of your life in "mental health prison." Rape could get the victim killed for encouraging /asking for the deed. And now abductions.....what do we say about it as a society....definately fruit loops, whacko, drank the kool-aid. And as far as governments go, how could they ever admit this was happening with their knowledge when at the same time they worry over peace vs. stock markets on a daily basis?

 

[trainedobserver]

In this scenario Jacobs hybrids make sense as part of a Stealth/DNA invasion.

I have to admit that none of the hybrid business makes any sense to me. I'm no biologist, but cross-species hybridization (the silliest being the "intercourse" cases) seems impractical if nigh on impossible. For that to work here on Earth the two species have to be closely related and the offspring is often sterile. I can't imagine anything more fundamentally different than something from another world, composed of material created in another star, under different environmental conditions, and perhaps even different evolutionary laws. To give these creatures the god-like ability to overcome that obstacle decries the need to go ahead give them the technology and wisdom to overcome the human race or even become a functional human in a more direct fashion.

 

[trainedobserver]

When did it start? ...

Wow! Excellent!

 

[mike]

I have to admit that none of the hybrid business makes any sense to me. I'm no biologist, but cross-species hybridization (the silliest being the "intercourse" cases) seems impractical if nigh on impossible. For that to work here on Earth the two species have to be closely related and the offspring is often sterile. I can't imagine anything more fundamentally different than something from another world, composed of material created in another star, under different environmental conditions, and perhaps even different evolutionary laws. To give these creatures the god-like ability to overcome that obstacle decries the need to go ahead give them the technology and wisdom to overcome the human race or even become a functional human in a more direct fashion.

The likelihood of offspring being a chimera is increased if it is created via in vitro fertilization. Chimeras can often breed, but the fertility and type of offspring depends on which cell line gave rise to the ovaries or testes; varying degrees of intersexuality may result if one set of cells is genetically female and another genetically male

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics)

So providing attention was paid to the cell line in the first generation chimera (hybrid is perhaps not the best label) they should have no trouble interbreeding with humans the good old fashioned way.
And course if the small grey is a genetically optimised replicant of human DNA to start with again , no issues with compatibility

Its amazing what a little genetic technology can do

The French scientists created Alba through a process called zygote microinjection, in which they plucked a fluorescent protein from a species of fluorescent jellyfish called Aequorea victoria. Then they modified the gene to make its glowing properties twice as powerful. This gene, called EGFG (for enhanced green fluorescent gene), was then inserted into a fertilized rabbit egg cell that eventually grew into Alba.
As the cell divided, the "green gene" also replicated and made its way into every cell of Alba's body.

Glow-in-the-Dark Pigs Make Debut - ABC News

Jellyfish are not vertibrates nor even a true fish, yet its genes can be inserted into a land mammal

There is also speculation DNA is universal

Why aliens might look like you: DNA could be a 'universal constant' - making humans and ET closer to 'cousins' | Mail Online


We know it is the case here

The concept that all three domains of life share the same DNA replication initiator is big news, and will mean that biologists may have to tweak or change entirely many of the models representing eukaryotes, and DNA replication generally. "This not only has important implications for the respective functions of these different mechanisms, it also calls into question some cherished models in the field," said Berger. Nogales added that: "The specialization of DNA replication initiators took place a long time ago, separating them from other members of the AAA+ super-family of proteins while maintaining an identity among themselves that reflects the importance of the replication process. Through the millions of years, evolution has added bells and whistles around this highly conserved central engine."

Universal DNA Switch Shakes Up Biology

I think the evidence points to enough reasonable doubt that we cant simply dismiss the possibility outright as impossible

 

[Jeff Davis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics)

So providing attention was paid to the cell line in the first generation chimera (hybrid is perhaps not the best label) they should have no trouble interbreeding with humans the good old fashioned way.
And course if the small grey is a genetically optimised replicant of human DNA to start with again , no issues with compatibility

Its amazing what a little genetic technology can do



Glow-in-the-Dark Pigs Make Debut - ABC News

Jellyfish are not vertibrates nor even a true fish, yet its genes can be inserted into a land mammal

I did not know this! Just flat out cool info all around.

 

[mike]

An energy analysis by Professors Pudritz and Higgs of McMaster University showed that the first ten amino acids are likely to form at relatively low temperatures and pressures, and the calculated odds of formation match the concentrations of these life-chemicals found in meteorite samples. They also match those in simulations of early Earth, and most critically, those simulations were performed by other people.
The implications are staggering: good news for anyone worried about how we're alone, and bad news for anyone who demands some kind of "Designer" to put life together - it seems that physics can assemble the organic jigsaw all by itself, thank you very much, and has probably done so throughout space since the beginning of everything.
The study indicated that you don't need a miracle to arrive at the chemical cocktail for early life, just a decently large asteroid with the right components. That's all. The entire universe could be stuffed with life, from the earliest prebiotic protein-a-likes to fully DNAed descendants. The path from one to the other is long, but we've had thirteen and a half billion years so far and it's happened at least once.

Ridley Scott's "Prometheus" Suggests DNA May Be a Constant in the Universe --Richard Dawkins and Other Scientists Agree

Dr.Paul Davies co-director of the Arizona State University Cosmology Initiative said that he had been encouraged by the discovery a few years ago "that some sections of junk DNA seem to be markedly resistant to change, and have remained identical in humans, rats, mice, chickens and dogs for at least 300 million years."

 

[trainedobserver]

I think the evidence points to enough reasonable doubt that we cant simply dismiss the possibility outright as impossible

Perhaps not impossible, but certainly highly improbable.

You have to wonder how all of these hybrids have escaped detection by the medical community.

 

[mike]

Perhaps not impossible, but certainly highly improbable.

You have to wonder how all of these hybrids have escaped detection by the medical community.

I'm sorry i disagree, i think its more likely as the articles suggest DNA is universal. (it is here on earth)

The study indicated that you don't need a miracle to arrive at the chemical cocktail for early life, just a decently large asteroid with the right components. That's all. The entire universe could be stuffed with life, from the earliest prebiotic protein-a-likes to fully DNAed descendants. The path from one to the other is long, but we've had thirteen and a half billion years so far and it's happened at least once.

As for detection by the medical community, when was the last time the doctor or hospital checked your DNA, or more importantly did a full genomic assay on you ?

Any hypothetical ET/Human chimera capable of passing as human at first glance would need a full genomic sequence done to spot genetic odditys, and even then they would likely be seen as novel mutations

 

[Jeff Davis]

@Burnt State
I know I should have thought of the obvious prior, but I was sitting here away from the forum for a little while, when it dawned on me concerning the correlations supporting the contextual change that I questioned earlier with respect to the AAP, and the Satan cults. The answer is pretty obvious, it's demons.

What about a theory wherein demons are actually alien life forms that are confined to the informational realm? What if it was them that authored the Grey intercessory reality program, which would have been developed to access us, and possibly other life forms like us, that dwell in both the consciousness of the material and the informational realms simultaneously? If we are a composite being that consists of an informational, or spiritual double, as so many religions and gnostic and mystical schools of thinking teach, possibly it is only this aspect of ourselves that they have any interest in whatsoever. Perhaps their long described lust for our flesh is all they can do. Is this why UFOs do not demonstrate typical solid material behavior? Perhaps all we can indulge with respect for their natural extant orientation is imagery. Possibly, the abductee need not go anywhere to leave, journey, experience whatever designs they have with them, outside the scope of time, which is what I believe is possibly taking place. It seems to me that the only reason we experience time is cognition. This is why time seems to dramatically slow down, or sped up when the mind is influenced by specific drugs that regulate it's cognitive functions and thereby elicit these effects. I am thinking that time is nonexistent within the realm, or energetic influence of consciousness. This might help to explain the missing time, the silence, and the electromagnetic disturbances that are routinely apart of the UFO phenomena.

 

[trainedobserver]

It is hard for me to blame so much on government and military incompetence.

Here's another aspect of the whole business that bothers me. If the military recovered a crashed flying saucer and bodies at Roswell, then they have had undeniable evidence of alien visitation since 1947. If they have spent the years since then pouring money into back-engineering that craft and studying the remains of the occupants, they have at least some understanding of the military and intelligence capabilities the foreign power responsible for them has at their disposal.

In this scenario, the military could not dismiss alien abduction reports without some investigation or intervention. If found to be true, some counter measure, for at least themselves, would naturally have to pursued. Also, some visible effort to combat the intrusion of UFOs into our air space would seem to be another logical outcome.

You almost have to believe these efforts are so covert as to be invisible and operating in another dimension themselves to think they, or something like them, are actually going on.

In the end, I don't know what to believe.

 

[trainedobserver]

Any hypothetical ET/Human chimera capable of passing as human at first glance would need a full genomic sequence done to spot genetic odditys, and even then they would likely be seen as novel mutations

Well, why even do it? What does it get them? Why all the effort? It's Invasion of the Body Snatchers. The aliens take over by becoming us. What then?

 

[marduk]

It is hard for me to blame so much on government and military incompetence.

Here's another aspect of the whole business that bothers me. If the military recovered a crashed flying saucer and bodies at Roswell, then they have had undeniable evidence of alien visitation since 1947. If they have spent the years since then pouring money into back-engineering that craft and studying the remains of the occupants, they have at least some understanding of the military and intelligence capabilities the foreign power responsible for them has at their disposal.

In this scenario, the military could not dismiss alien abduction reports without some investigation or intervention. If found to be true, some counter measure, for at least themselves, would naturally have to pursued. Also, some visible effort to combat the intrusion of UFOs into our air space would seem to be another logical outcome.

You almost have to believe these efforts are so covert as to be invisible and operating in another dimension themselves to think they, or something like them, are actually going on.

In the end, I don't know what to believe.

Ok, let's follow that logic.

Let's assume a "sport model" zeti reticulan ferarri testarossa carrying 3 greys crashes in new mexico in 1947.

What happens next? The roswell base releases info without clearing it, Truman freaks out, slams the lid down worried the commies will get their hands on the hardware, ushers it off to a super secret bunker somewhere, puts his top braniacs on it, and hunkers down waiting for the goodies to come out to hammer the ruskies back to moldavia or wherever.

One of two things happen: either they reverse engineer some interesting stuff or they don't. Forget the bodies, that won't help us with the reds. Gimme the keys to propulsion and weapons systems.

Let's say they somehow figure out antigrav or shields or ray gun tech or whatever.

#1 they're gonna be awfully quiet about it. If it does see the light of day (like Panama or whatever) it's gonna be whispers and rumors and whatnot.

#2 I think in 60+ years you'd see some of it operationalized. Maybe fibre optics or stealth or semiconductors or whatever came of this... but each of these technologies has real people behind them with a chain of inventions and discoveries all their own.

Hell, 9-11 would've been a perfect time. Vietnam would have been a perfect time. Desert storm II would have been a perfect time. Uphill losing battles where the public is pissed at the military and we really, really need a win.

But we didn't. Maybe some small crap came out of this lab, but nothing really earth shattering or substantial.

So let's go back to the other possibility: they got the goods and have sunk billions into researching it... and found dick all.

What would happen then?

First, the powers that be after a few years would be hopping mad. Then a few years later, embarrassed as hell. Then a few decades later just want the whole thing to go away.

I mean, let's say a couple hundred to a couple thousand people are "in" on the secret. The more money and time that got wasted, and the more the cold war threat faded, how could you justify lying to the entire world about the truth of whatever the buggers are and wasting billions essentially with your thumb up your butt? Coming back empty handed?

Nope. You may just shut the whole shebang down, melt it down to slag, and cover it with a few dozen feet of concrete to be safe.

I think this option is far more likely if we did in fact get hardware.