Banned From The UFO Collective Google Group

[trainedobserver]

So everyone sits on their hands and allows a foreign power free reign to do as they please because it is just too embarrassing? Hmmmm.

 

[marduk]

So everyone sits on their hands and allows a foreign power free reign to do as they please because it is just too embarrassing? Hmmmm.

With what? If the mighty us of a can't figure it out in60 years why could anyone else?

Or better yet, bring them in on the secret and say they've already solved it if you give us the gear we'll let you in on it.

And then give them some bunk data to keep them distracted for a decade or two and let human nature take its course.

Easier for me to swallow human incompetence than a massive cover up of us having saucer tech for 60 years.

 

[Stagger Lee]

As metioned, it's no secret officials were concerned over these craft through the 1950's. Much of that concern was the fact nothing could be done about it. What has changed in 60 years? Perhaps we have better equipment to monitor such craft when entering or leaving the atmosphere, but how, even today, could it be controlled?

 

[nameless]

Wow! Excellent!

 

[trainedobserver]

As metioned, it's no secret officials were concerned over these craft through the 1950's. Much of that concern was the fact nothing could be done about it. What has changed in 60 years? Perhaps we have better equipment to monitor such craft when entering or leaving the atmosphere, but how, even today, could it be controlled?

You'd think this would lead to something akin to a psychological breakdown of the intelligence community and military high command.

 

[marduk]

You'd think this would lead to something akin to a psychological breakdown of the intelligence community and military high command.

I would argue we're seeing exactly that.

 

[Jeff Davis]

You'd think this would lead to something akin to a psychological breakdown of the intelligence community and military high command.

Possibly, this explains the ongoing insane behavior in our government. Not one thing they do makes a lick of sense.

 

[trainedobserver]

The original Lam drawing had a heart pattern head-dress or wall hanging which makes him look a little more festive.

 

[Jeff Davis]

The original Lam drawing had a heart pattern head-dress or wall hanging which makes him look a little more festive.

I don't think I have ever seen that, possibly, but I don't think so. I've seen Lam about a hundred times. Nifty little crown there. For what is truly an amazing angle, that I honestly owe Nick Redfern for introducing me to, check out this Alister Crowley groupie and his invocations: Jack Parsons (rocket engineer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Damned Dam | Mysterious Universe

Rocketing to Disaster | Mysterious Universe

 

[Burnt State]

When did it start?…We can map these changes through the land, through the food chain, through the cattle, through the gene pool into before when I was we. Then maybe we can die a better way.

This really is a brilliant piece that maps our own descent into the alien takeover - not any hybridized, sperm stealing alien lover that is stealing our fetuses, but the process of our own dehumanization. I would take your parable and put it right alongside The Lorax, as a morality tale for adults, to understand how we surrendered our humanity freely, out of ignorance, out of passivity and then we were trained to do this out of fear. It is in fear that we make up our demons, something outside of ourselves that we can point the finger at. It's a habit of our species to look outside for both saving and for blame. So we made heaven and hell, to externalize our own capacities and place blame on the heathen, or the woman, or the French.



In the 1980's a book came out called Michelle Remembers - i remember it well as a young teen growing up in my public library. After having exhausted Jules Verne and Poe, and after i read through all the monster books and the scant UFO texts i could find, i ended up reading about Satanism - after all it was the moral panic of the times. What was unique about Satanism in North America, and the phenomenon that became known as Satanic Ritual Abuse, it had a rich petri dish of Religiosity to grow off of. Once this book was published by Michelle Smith and her psychiatrist husband the dam broke open. Suddenly there was Satanic Ritual Abuse taking place in each and every community and across all sectors of society - especially among the elites. I encourage people to read the following wiki to understand exactly how it is that myths are made in society. Myths have no real basis in truth - they are just a story repeated often enough that we come to believe very firmly in the externalizations of our own humanity, and our attempt to purify the body, to cleanse society. It's all just a witch hunt world after all.

Satanic ritual abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In America the hunt for satanists was taken on with a vigour that has not been seen since McCarthyism. This phenomenon quickly crossed borders into Britain and across Europe. This moral panic struck fear in every talk show host that didn't have an expose on their local satanic group - Geraldo's show on this topic was one of the most watched shows in its era. You will all remember it well! This panic went global and there were court cases accusing all manners of upstanding citizens, and a lot of daycare workers. Keep in mind that the central premise was that Satanic Ritual Abuse was something happening worldwide and run by the elite powers of the world, sacrificing babies and committing all manners of heinous crimes in order to consolidate their global power - sound familiar? Reptilians anyone?



Not one real incident of Satanic Ritual Abuse has ever been borne out - only vaguely connected incidents of abuse, but nothing proving or confirming the great number of statements of children (whose statements were almost always coached by parents or hypnotists) and the 95% of adult cases of SRA which were remembered under psychotherapy. At the end of the day the whole thing was a complete fabrication. This is its own modern parable, about how gullible we can be as a society due to our strong desires for a scapegoat. Because of America's religious belief system the moral panic took hold in a very palpable manner with the refrain being echoed across news media, in court houses, in pulpits. Alien Abduction just didn't get the same kind of traction as SRA did because there wasn't a natural, cultural fit, but still, the Reptilian global power elite still plays a small role - after all, they could be responsible for MILAB's right?

I'm sure people are also familiar with Jerusalem Syndrome and how the powers of belief can alter our version of reality. So i would ask you to consider religion, and the experiences of prayer, and how when stories are repeated often enough others will ultimately come to believe sincerely in them - in fact, they will become accepted fact in society and even dictate laws of state. But that's what we do as a society, we secede our free will and power to anyone who can help explain the polarities in our society or give us someone to hate, to blame for our bad feelings.



There is no proof of SRA despite its global manifestation. I think we can safely say the same thing about how the Alien Abduction Phenomenon works. In fact, they are a perfect parallel of each other, but sociologically were treated differently in society and accepted by different segments. But in the same way that AAP has its prophets and soothsayers (Hopkins, Mack, Jacobs, Strieber) so too did SRA:

In the 1990s psychologist D. Corydon Hammond publicized a detailed theory of ritual abuse drawn from hypnotherapy sessions with his patients, alleging they were victims of a worldwide conspiracy of organized, secretive clandestine cells who used torture, mind control and ritual abuse to create alternate personalities that could be "activated" with codewords and were trained as assassins, prostitutes, drug traffickers, and child sex workers (used to create child pornography). Hammond claimed his patients had revealed the conspiracy was masterminded by a Jewish doctor in Nazi Germany, but who now worked for the C.I.A. with a goal of worldwide domination by a Satanic cult. The cult was allegedly composed of respectable, powerful members of society who used the funds generated to further their agenda. The patients' lack of memories (and the failure to find evidence for their claims) were cited as evidence of the power and effectiveness of this cult in furthering their agenda. Hammond's claims gained considerable attention, due in part to his prominence in the field of hypnosis and psychotherapy.

So, yes, IMHO alien abduction as described and speculated above is just speculation and 99.5% not time travelling farmers, just a product of our imaginations and complicated mental health and self-esteem issues. Where are the facts? Do we only have stories that are repeated over and over again? The notion that people would never tell such stories if they were not seeking fame does not come out in the wash. It's just the popular story of our times that's all.

 

[Jeff Davis]

This really is a brilliant piece that maps our own descent into the alien takeover - not any hybridized, sperm stealing alien lover that is stealing our fetuses, but the process of our own dehumanization. I would take your parable and put it right alongside The Lorax, as a morality tale for adults, to understand how we surrendered our humanity freely, out of ignorance, out of passivity and then we were trained to do this out of fear. It is in fear that we make up our demons, something outside of ourselves that we can point the finger at. It's a habit of our species to look outside for both saving and for blame. So we made heaven and hell, to externalize our own capacities and place blame on the heathen, or the woman, or the French.



In the 1980's a book came out called Michelle Remembers - i remember it well as a young teen growing up in my public library. After having exhausted Jules Verne and Poe, and after i read through all the monster books and the scant UFO texts i could find, i ended up reading about Satanism - after all it was the moral panic of the times. What was unique about Satanism in North America, and the phenomenon that became known as Satanic Ritual Abuse, it had a rich petri dish of Religiosity to grow off of. Once this book was published by Michelle Smith and her psychiatrist husband the dam broke open. Suddenly there was Satanic Ritual Abuse taking place in each and every community and across all sectors of society - especially among the elites. I encourage people to read the following wiki to understand exactly how it is that myths are made in society. Myths have no real basis in truth - they are just a story repeated often enough that we come to believe very firmly in the externalizations of our own humanity, and our attempt to purify the body, to cleanse society. It's all just a witch hunt world after all.

Satanic ritual abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In America the hunt for satanists was taken on with a vigour that has not been seen since McCarthyism. This phenomenon quickly crossed borders into Britain and across Europe. This moral panic struck fear in every talk show host that didn't have an expose on their local satanic group - Geraldo's show on this topic was one of the most watched shows in its era. You will all remember it well! This panic went global and there were court cases accusing all manners of upstanding citizens, and a lot of daycare workers. Keep in mind that the central premise was that Satanic Ritual Abuse was something happening worldwide and run by the elite powers of the world, sacrificing babies and committing all manners of heinous crimes in order to consolidate their global power - sound familiar? Reptilians anyone?



Not one real incident of Satanic Ritual Abuse has ever been borne out - only vaguely connected incidents of abuse, but nothing proving or confirming the great number of statements of children (whose statements were almost always coached by parents or hypnotists) and the 95% of adult cases of SRA which were remembered under psychotherapy. At the end of the day the whole thing was a complete fabrication. This is its own modern parable, about how gullible we can be as a society due to our strong desires for a scapegoat. Because of America's religious belief system the moral panic took hold in a very palpable manner with the refrain being echoed across news media, in court houses, in pulpits. Alien Abduction just didn't get the same kind of traction as SRA did because there wasn't a natural, cultural fit, but still, the Reptilian global power elite still plays a small role - after all, they could be responsible for MILAB's right?

I'm sure people are also familiar with Jerusalem Syndrome and how the powers of belief can alter our version of reality. So i would ask you to consider religion, and the experiences of prayer, and how when stories are repeated often enough others will ultimately come to believe sincerely in them - in fact, they will become accepted fact in society and even dictate laws of state. But that's what we do as a society, we secede our free will and power to anyone who can help explain the polarities in our society or give us someone to hate, to blame for our bad feelings.



There is no proof of SRA despite its global manifestation. I think we can safely say the same thing about how the Alien Abduction Phenomenon works. In fact, they are a perfect parallel of each other, but sociologically were treated differently in society and accepted by different segments. But in the same way that AAP has its prophets and soothsayers (Hopkins, Mack, Jacobs, Strieber) so too did SRA:

In the 1990s psychologist D. Corydon Hammond publicized a detailed theory of ritual abuse drawn from hypnotherapy sessions with his patients, alleging they were victims of a worldwide conspiracy of organized, secretive clandestine cells who used torture, mind control and ritual abuse to create alternate personalities that could be "activated" with codewords and were trained as assassins, prostitutes, drug traffickers, and child sex workers (used to create child pornography). Hammond claimed his patients had revealed the conspiracy was masterminded by a Jewish doctor in Nazi Germany, but who now worked for the C.I.A. with a goal of worldwide domination by a Satanic cult. The cult was allegedly composed of respectable, powerful members of society who used the funds generated to further their agenda. The patients' lack of memories (and the failure to find evidence for their claims) were cited as evidence of the power and effectiveness of this cult in furthering their agenda. Hammond's claims gained considerable attention, due in part to his prominence in the field of hypnosis and psychotherapy.

So, yes, IMHO alien abduction as described and speculated above is just speculation and 99.5% not time travelling farmers, 1) just a product of our imaginations and complicated mental health and self-esteem issues. 2) Where are the facts? Do we only have stories that are repeated over and over again? The notion that people would never tell such stories if they were not seeking fame does not come out in the wash. It's just the popular story of our times that's all.

1) equals total bullshit.

Sorry to say, but this doesn't explain one iota. You have in no way explained the alien substitution for satanic ritual abuse, so really, this is just more magical thinking.

2) The emboldened sentences above could be stated for ANY discoveries yet to be made and further substantiated. You have done a great job of justifying your doubts without any real answers or logical substitutions. Just more questions. That's all any of us have now, minus the "it ain't this" mentality.

 

[Burnt State]

1) equals total bullshit.

Sorry to say, but this doesn't explain one iota. You have in no way explained the alien substitution for satanic ritual abuse, so really, this is just more magical thinking.

2) The emboldened sentences above could be stated for ANY discoveries yet to be made and further substantiated. You have done a great job of justifying your doubts without any real answers or logical substitutions. Just more questions. That's all any of us have now, minus the "it ain't this" mentality.

I think if you'd like to try another possibility please provide one, but i think there's more than ample proof in understanding why alien abduction is just another repetition of SRA, and seeing communists everywhere before that, and then seeing witches prior to that. These are all functions of the natural human belief system that wants to scapegoat something to replace their irrational fears with. I think in the post above it's pretty clear how the myth of SRA parallels the myth of alien abduction. In this way the human condition has more to do with why we have always seen demons, blamed demons or personified demons in the power elite etc.. It's what humans do because it's 1) too hard to admit that people we care about have done terrible things to us, 2) men like to hypnotize women and children to support their own bizarre belief systems 3) the populous will buy into a mythology on a global scale even though there is no proof for it…i could go on but why bother? IMHO the reasons for alien abduction as reported in the masses, across borders, during hypnosis is a highly patterned event that has been taught to the populous, like any religion or belief system, through the same mechanisms of indoctrination that we've always used. It's really no more than that with maybe the most rare of exceptions, but i haven't seen anything beyond a Pascagoula of proof to support that. Do you know of any good cases of alien abduction that we could point to and say - ah yes, there's the proof? The same has been said very vociferously about SRA and it all turned out to be myth in the end. Why do you feel that the AAP is any different?

EDIT: in fact i wish i had more doubt in my mind about what AAP is but in the way that it's been presented to the masses via the prophets of AAP and the hoaxers all i can see is SRA part 2. Beyond doubt, i've given you actual parallel proofs for how the whole "demon in the night" thing works, as it's been reported across the ages, each era replete with its own mythology.

 

[marduk]

I think if you'd like to try another possibility please provide one, but i think there's more than ample proof in understanding why alien abduction is just another repetition of SRA, and seeing communists everywhere before that, and then seeing witches prior to that. These are all functions of the natural human belief system that wants to scapegoat something to replace their irrational fears with. I think in the post above it's pretty clear how the myth of SRA parallels the myth of alien abduction. In this way the human condition has more to do with why we have always seen demons, blamed demons or personified demons in the power elite etc.. It's what humans do because it's 1) too hard to admit that people we care about have done terrible things to us, 2) men like to hypnotize women and children to support their own bizarre belief systems 3) the populous will buy into a mythology on a global scale even though there is no proof for it…i could go on but why bother? IMHO the reasons for alien abduction as reported in the masses, across borders, during hypnosis is a highly patterned event that has been taught to the populous, like any religion or belief system, through the same mechanisms of indoctrination that we've always used. It's really no more than that with maybe the most rare of exceptions, but i haven't seen anything beyond a Pascagoula of proof to support that. Do you know of any good cases of alien abduction that we could point to and say - ah yes, there's the proof? The same has been said very vociferously about SRA and it all turned out to be myth in the end. Why do you feel that the AAP is any different?

EDIT: in fact i wish i had more doubt in my mind about what AAP is but in the way that it's been presented to the masses via the prophets of AAP and the hoaxers all i can see is SRA part 2. Beyond doubt, i've given you actual parallel proofs for how the whole "demon in the night" thing works, as it's been reported across the ages, each era replete with its own mythology.

Here's the thing man.

Commie paranoia was massively overblown... but was a response to a very real soviet threat.

Satanic abuse was massively overblown... but was a response to some real abuse at it's core.

Official investigations produced no evidence of widespread conspiracies or of the slaughter of thousands; only a small number of verified crimes have even remote similarities to tales of SRA. (Satanic ritual abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

The Salem witch trials and the inquisition was a response to pagan belief systems that could have undermined the church and dogma of the time.

In every one of your examples it's a response to something. An over-response that masks and overrides and conceals what really happened... but something really happened.

 

[Jeff Davis]

I think if you'd like to try another possibility please provide one, but i think there's more than ample proof in understanding why alien abduction is just another repetition of SRA, and seeing communists everywhere before that, and then seeing witches prior to that. These are all functions of the natural human belief system that wants to scapegoat something to replace their irrational fears with. I think in the post above it's pretty clear how the myth of SRA parallels the myth of alien abduction. In this way the human condition has more to do with why we have always seen demons, blamed demons or personified demons in the power elite etc.. It's what humans do because it's 1) too hard to admit that people we care about have done terrible things to us, 2) men like to hypnotize women and children to support their own bizarre belief systems 3) the populous will buy into a mythology on a global scale even though there is no proof for it…i could go on but why bother? IMHO the reasons for alien abduction as reported in the masses, across borders, during hypnosis is a highly patterned event that has been taught to the populous, like any religion or belief system, through the same mechanisms of indoctrination that we've always used. It's really no more than that with maybe the most rare of exceptions, but i haven't seen anything beyond a Pascagoula of proof to support that. Do you know of any good cases of alien abduction that we could point to and say - ah yes, there's the proof? The same has been said very vociferously about SRA and it all turned out to be myth in the end. Why do you feel that the AAP is any different?

EDIT: in fact i wish i had more doubt in my mind about what AAP is but in the way that it's been presented to the masses via the prophets of AAP and the hoaxers all i can see is SRA part 2. Beyond doubt, i've given you actual parallel proofs for how the whole "demon in the night" thing works, as it's been reported across the ages, each era replete with its own mythology.

Actually, I have, many, many, times. Just because you site one single pop psychologist that claims abductees are a bit odd, or off, not so much proof. At all. If that was the case John Mack's work would have had the thing in the bag a LONG time ago. Just opinion and nothing more. You HAVE to substantiate your claims which no one has.

You still have not explained where and what core issues the alien abduction phenomena sprang from. I have asked this repeatedly. BTW, Satanic Ritual Abuse has definitely been documented and those responsible prosecuted. You cannot state that the practice has not been proved, because it has. and that's precisely where I am coming from. SRA did in fact have a real core issue including animal mutilation and child abuse. Not sure where you are coming from on this one. You seem very narrow in your willingness to consider that which may be beyond your own programming. Isn't that what we are accusing other of when you adopt theories like low self esteem and psychological underpinnings? Of course it is.

 

[Burnt State]

Here's the thing man.

Commie paranoia was massively overblown... but was a response to a very real soviet threat.

Satanic abuse was massively overblown... but was a response to some real abuse at it's core.

Official investigations produced no evidence of widespread conspiracies or of the slaughter of thousands; only a small number of verified crimes have even remote similarities to tales of SRA. (Satanic ritual abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

The Salem witch trials and the inquisition was a response to pagan belief systems that could have undermined the church and dogma of the time.

In every one of your examples it's a response to something. An over-response that masks and overrides and conceals what really happened... but something really happened.

ok, i take back the commie thing, but i was thinking more about how panic and hysteria coloured that era so that even in the media we were peppered with seeing and suspecting a reality that just wasn't true, at least not on the same scale as we were being led to believe, the same goes for the witch hunt and any inquisition of its time. it's just men with big books and through either torture or hypnosis they will wrench the truth out of the victim/subject etc.. it's the process or the mechanism of how we go about inventing our myths that i'm interested in for the sake of this discussion.

so going back to SRA - what actual cases do we have? none that i can tell - at least nothing even close to the paranoia that affected a considerable amount of society, at various levels of government etc. with more money being devoted to child abuse (a good thing of course, but premised upon false beliefs and sheer fear that satan's clutches were groping our kids) and sermons about the dangers of your satanic neighbour echoing across the land and over into europe. to this day there are many websites devoted to the cult of SRA but not one single case or proof - just the narrative remains.

so going back to AAP - what actual cases do we have? or is this really just the same myth repackaged in the way it's always been packaged with the self-imposed prophet delivering us from evil. all i can see is the narrative and some exceptional speculation on this thread. but if it was real should there not be a list of scintillating cases rattling off the thread banks? should there not be a society up in arms that vulnerable people are being taken off planet for nefarious purposes? no, in fact if anything, AAP does not have the same sympathies as satanic abuse does because of the belief systems of our society. that's why the myth of AAP is dying away even as we speak, with characters like Derril Sims left to prop it up.

so if there is something that has really happened regarding AAP, and i've gone up and down the literature, i would love to see the case that could make my zetetic searching come to some fruition. i remain eternally fascinated with the Pascagoula, Kelly-Hopkinsville like stories, and find nothing more enthralling than the Wendy O'Connors' Faded Discs collection of interviews with people claiming alien occupant contact. but the abduction story, like SRA, has no real facts behind it.

unlike the soviet threat, what can we point to as being the core of AAP aside from the mechanisms of myth making?

 

[Burnt State]

Actually, I have, many, many, times. Just because you site one single pop psychologist that claims abductees are a bit odd, or off, not so much proof. At all. If that was the case John Mack's work would have had the thing in the bag a LONG time ago. Just opinion and nothing more. You HAVE to substantiate your claims which no one has.

You still have not explained where and what core issues the alien abduction phenomena sprang from. I have asked this repeatedly. BTW, Satanic Ritual Abuse has definitely been documented and those responsible prosecuted. You cannot state that the practice has not been proved, because it has. and that's precisely where I am coming from. SRA did in fact have a real core issue including animal mutilation and child abuse. Not sure where you are coming from on this one. You seem very narrow in your willingness to consider that which may be beyond your own programming. Isn't that what we are accusing other of when you adopt theories like low self esteem and psychological underpinnings? Of course it is.

Jeff, i'm not narrow minded at all. remember - i'm the guy who wants to promote magical thinking, in that way that we learn to think outside the box of ufology to imagine that there is in fact something taking place and it's probably not nuts and bolts saucers from Tau-Ceti prime.

There's this great lecture i heard recently off the Hidden Experience site - i'm sure you know it, its focus is on the Alien Abduction phenomenon and it's captured most of the really important history of this topic. I've listened to most of it. I am engaged in the literature. I'm not making things up, just reporting what i've heard, and researched over the years. In this lecture Mack stands opposite Hopkins - the actual doctor up against the artist. What's fascinating is how diametrically opposed these two characters are, which is pretty bizarre as most of Mack's cases came from Hopkins. In this lecture Mack believes and promotes that the aliens are our friends, that we need to listen carefully to what they have to say to us, about caring for the planet etc. - very space brother. Hopkins, on the other hand, presented the dire warning - how we need to be careful regarding these invaders into our homes. Now, you tell me, why on earth would two of the most famous researchers have such oppositional beliefs regarding their "research." And to follow, why does Jacobs take us to the place of the imminent alien invasion? Maybe this has way more to do with the messenger than the message? Obviously each researcher colours AAP and brands it according to their own needs and beliefs. The actual abductee is irrelevant when it comes to writing the book. I know that there's a lot of reverence for Mack, someone who fought the man and won university, academic acclaim for an oft maligned subject of study.

hidden experience: Dr. John Mack and Budd Hopkins in conversation

So beyond many people who have published critical hypotheses to the contrary regarding AAP what do you think people should be doing if they suspect that they are the victims of Alien Abduction? Should they contact Derril Sims, Dave Jacobs? Or should they go see a real psychologist who has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with aliens? You'e heard this on many podcasts before I'm sure, as we recently heard O'Brien quote the same thing. If the truth is something we are interested in getting at then we should not so casually brush aside the real issues behind the many claims of AAP and we should first, as any decent researcher I've heard say about this issue, send people to actual clinicians and see what unfolds from there. We also need to stop hypnotizing people altogether as many in the community have urged, and see how the phenomenon changes. If we send people to the prophet then of course we're just going to get claims of aliens - many have books to sell and a career to promote. What happens if they all see real doctors instead who are not proponents of AAP?

I see no reason so far in terms of cases to think otherwise. Can you point to one case of SRA that went to court and was actually found to be satanic - because from what i've read there isn't even one. There are no proven cases of child abuse and animal mutilation as related to satanism - please review the literature. It was all hysteria, pure and simple, and that's why i brought it up with regards to how myths are made. I would be far less narrow in believing otherwise if in fact you could show me actual cases either of SRA or AAP that were not just part of the chain of mythmaking. I think before we start speculating on the fantastic we should explore core cases first. The SRA core cases were all proven false.

AAP begins with what might in fact be bizarre contact between Betty and Barney and something really, really strange, but then after that it breaks down into the Outer Limits episode and Jimmy Durante - so how is that proof of aliens? Is it the star map? What cases make you feel that these things are really going on?

 

[BoyintheMachine]

Satanic abuse was massively overblown... but was a response to some real abuse at it's core.

Official investigations produced no evidence of widespread conspiracies or of the slaughter of thousands; only a small number of verified crimes have even remote similarities to tales of SRA. (Satanic ritual abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

The Salem witch trials and the inquisition was a response to pagan belief systems that could have undermined the church and dogma of the time..

1. The Satanic Ritual Abuse phenomenon did not have any real abuse at it's core.

2. The Salem Witch trials had nothing to do with paganism. This myth started in the latter 1800s and early 1900s with work of Margaret Murray and her colleagues who created the hypothesis that what we call witchcraft was the survival of Western paganism, more specifically the worship of the goddess Diane and her alleged lover and horned god, Dianus. The only evidence they used to back up their claims was the use of testimony of tortured accused witches. This hypothesis caught the attention of the public but scholars rejected it as people will admit to anything under torture. The people accused of "witchcraft" in Salem were Christians. None were guilty of the crimes to which they were accused. There may have been a core element of folk magic and divination, superstitions which were widely in practice then and now. However, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that any of the accused were pagans. If anything, the Salem Witchcraft Trials were politically motivated and had nothing to do with the Church. Going further, the accused in Salem were not Wiccans either, as Wicca was invented in the 1950s. Likewise, modern self-styled witches in Salem today have no connection to the Salem Witchcraft Trials and are not carrying on a tradition from such time.

Both the Salem Witchcraft Trials and SRA and "Satanic Panic" are the continuation of the same theme, Christians accusing other Christians (and non-Christians) of being "devil worshipers" and accusing them of horrible crimes. Instead of being tortured they are fired from their jobs and run out of town. Instead of being hanged or burned at the stake, they are tried and even convicted off of the most inane accusations. At this moment there are still people in jail who were falsely convicted in the 1980s and 1990s due to the "Satanic Panic" of such time period. The most recent release was of the West Memphis Three, three teens who were tried and convicted of killing three boys in a "satanic rite" even though there was little to no evidence to link them to the crime. There was no evidence the murders had anything to do withh Satanism or the occult but it was presented as a ritual occult murder at trial The three were not exonerated but instead had to give and Alford plea. This allowed the West Memphis police and the DA to continue to claim that they were responsible for the crime and thus the investigation into the murders does not have to be reopened. The real killer has been free all these years and has been given a free pass. The real killer will never be found or brought to justice. The only hard evidence found at the scene points at one of the fathers.

 

[Jeff Davis]

Jeff, i'm not narrow minded at all. remember - i'm the guy who wants to promote magical thinking, in that way that we learn to think outside the box of ufology to imagine that there is in fact something taking place and it's probably not nuts and bolts saucers from Tau-Ceti prime.

There's this great lecture i heard recently off the Hidden Experience site - i'm sure you know it, its focus is on the Alien Abduction phenomenon and it's captured most of the really important history of this topic. I've listened to most of it. I am engaged in the literature. I'm not making things up, just reporting what i've heard, and researched over the years. In this lecture Mack stands opposite Hopkins - the actual doctor up against the artist. What's fascinating is how diametrically opposed these two characters are, which is pretty bizarre as most of Mack's cases came from Hopkins. In this lecture Mack believes and promotes that the aliens are our friends, that we need to listen carefully to what they have to say to us, about caring for the planet etc. - very space brother. Hopkins, on the other hand, presented the dire warning - how we need to be careful regarding these invaders into our homes. Now, you tell me, why on earth would two of the most famous researchers have such oppositional beliefs regarding their "research." And to follow, why does Jacobs take us to the place of the imminent alien invasion? Maybe this has way more to do with the messenger than the message? Obviously each researcher colours AAP and brands it according to their own needs and beliefs. The actual abductee is irrelevant when it comes to writing the book. I know that there's a lot of reverence for Mack, someone who fought the man and won university, academic acclaim for an oft maligned subject of study.

hidden experience: Dr. John Mack and Budd Hopkins in conversation

So beyond many people who have published critical hypotheses to the contrary regarding AAP what do you think people should be doing if they suspect that they are the victims of Alien Abduction? Should they contact Derril Sims, Dave Jacobs? Or should they go see a real psychologist who has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with aliens? You'e heard this on many podcasts before I'm sure, as we recently heard O'Brien quote the same thing. If the truth is something we are interested in getting at then we should not so casually brush aside the real issues behind the many claims of AAP and we should first, as any decent researcher I've heard say about this issue, send people to actual clinicians and see what unfolds from there. We also need to stop hypnotizing people altogether as many in the community have urged, and see how the phenomenon changes. If we send people to the prophet then of course we're just going to get claims of aliens - many have books to sell and a career to promote. What happens if they all see real doctors instead who are not proponents of AAP?

I see no reason so far in terms of cases to think otherwise. Can you point to one case of SRA that went to court and was actually found to be satanic - because from what i've read there isn't even one. There are no proven cases of child abuse and animal mutilation as related to satanism - please review the literature. It was all hysteria, pure and simple, and that's why i brought it up with regards to how myths are made. I would be far less narrow in believing otherwise if in fact you could show me actual cases either of SRA or AAP that were not just part of the chain of mythmaking. I think before we start speculating on the fantastic we should explore core cases first. The SRA core cases were all proven false.

AAP begins with what might in fact be bizarre contact between Betty and Barney and something really, really strange, but then after that it breaks down into the Outer Limits episode and Jimmy Durante - so how is that proof of aliens? Is it the star map? What cases make you feel that these things are really going on?

Conviction List: Ritual Abuse Cases - RA Info

Are you actually claiming that there have been no convictions of those claiming to be satanists that have abused children and animals???

 

[Burnt State]

Back to the responsibility angle because i do think, like SRA that dragged many a life through the court system and even imprisonment, there is a responsibility to spouting myth to the masses. If people have not read Don Ecker's piece on the Heaven's Gate UFO suicide cult's anniversary then please do so and consider what we're actually up to in this field of speculation and their consequences.

Anniversary Heaven's Gate | The Paracast Community Forums

For some people these speculations cause massive upheavals in the lives of others, cause them to join cults and even kill themselves because they believe, as the Heaven's Gate folks did, that they were returning home, that what they were up to was a spiritual event of epic proportions. Reading some of the suicide notes from the Heaven's Gate cultists reminded me so much of the cult of AAP and how there are very, very dangerous messages enclosed in such areas. Even Vallee, leader of the ufologist poll right now, was highly critical of all of the AAP prophets and believed that their methodologies were very faulty. Take a look at this little passage and tell me if you can tell the difference between this and the Heaven's Gate literature as it's all the same stuff as far as a i can tell - and it's very dangerous stuff i might add:

"But there is a painful side to the spiritual awakening that abduction experiences undergo. Although they may feel that they have a special responsibility or mission as teachers or Earth stewards, their deepening connection with Source or Home brings with it for them a feeling that they do not belong here. They may even feel that they have an alien identity or soul that the spaceships themselves are part of Home. The negativity or toxicity, material and spiritual that they experience in their environment, especially in urban centers, may become literally unbearable. Not infrequently, experiences become estranged from close family members unless these individuals can grow with them. When they confront their longing to “return” to Home or God, they may literally sob with the pain and grief of their separation.

The abduction phenomenon seems to be one of a number of intrusions into our reality from other realms that are contributing to the gradual (at least so far) spiritual rebirth taking place in Western Culture. It seems to have something to do with the human future. Each of the principal elements of the phenomenon – the traumatic intrusions; the reality-shattering encounters; the energetic intensity; the apocalyptic ecological confrontations; the reconnection with Source; and the forging of new relationships across a dimensional divide – contributes to the daishigyo, the great ego death, that is marking the end of the materialist business-as-usual paradigm that has lost its compatibility with life in the world as we know it."

 

[marduk]

We're getting off topic. What I'm saying is that the aap stuff is overblown likely due to the same forces that made the other stuff overblown.

But something is actually happening.