Can Anyone Explain The Purpose For These "Camps"?

[maninblack]

Personally, I'm sick of alex jones and his paranoid conspiracy stuff. Besides, this is not paranormal related. Shouldn't this guy be banned? Any thoughts, gene or dave?

 

[fitzbew88]

Oh no! The Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement has a plan to remove illegal immigrants?

What next? The Drug Enforcement Agency will start developing plans to combat illegal drugs!

RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!

lol. Our government is pushing for open borders. The camps are not for the illegals.

Tell it to the 15,000 border agents currently on patrol and the U.S. Congress which in FY '07 allocated $600 million USD specifically to make the border physically harder to cross between legal ports of entry in the SW. Our government is not (collectively, at least) pushing for "open borders".

(It might be helpful if you defined what you mean by "open borders", since under some definitions I might agree with you.)

The U.S. has realized (too late) that it turned a blind eye too long toward folks (even well-meaning folks) who try to "jump to the head of the line" and bypass legal entry procedures. In fact, some estimates are that there are over 10 million such individuals in the U.S. right now.

Over the next decade or so, the legal pressure on these individuals will likely increase as it becomes harder and harder to work in this country without a legal status. A lot of them are going to be arrested and confined until they get processed out. They will need to be confined somewhere.

Interestingly, the ENDGAME document is precisely that: "..this plan will guide our efforts in developing operational plans and resource requirements to achieve our national immigration law enforcement policy aims."

I am really trying to be open-minded about this ( I don't want to be a sheep! ), but so far everything I've seen here just reeks of psychological issues. It's like there is a *need* to be afraid. It can't be a coincidence these topics are on a paranormal forum even though (even if true) the issues aren't paranormal.

I don't really know what to do about it.

 

[fitzbew88]

Last year I read:

The official 9/11 report along with the following books:

The 9/11 Commission Report - Omissions and Distortions

The New Pearl Harbour - Disturbing Questions about the Bush Administration and 9/11

9/11 and the American Empire - Intellectuals Speak Out (Vol 1)

The evidence stacks up against an inside job - key individuals with the US Gov and Military either made it happen or let it happen and they're using Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden as scape goats - that's not to say I support the activities of those two individuals either.

Thank you.

Did you mean evidence stacks up "for" an inside job or "against" an inside job? I assume the latter, at least it makes sense in the context of the rest of the post.

All due respect, I prefer not to get into an argument over 9/11. It's a matter of personal energy. :frown:

 

[Rick Deckard]

Did you mean evidence stacks up "for" an inside job or "against" an inside job? I assume the latter, at least it makes sense in the context of the rest of the post.

S'funny you should say that - I did wonder whether I'd worded that ambiguously. I'll state it another way - the 'official conspiracy theory' is FAR LESS convincing than the alternative conspiracy theories, which is sort of self-supporting in the sense that you'd expect the official report to be less-than-truthful if the people producing it had a hand in the actual events, which I suspect they did.

All due respect, I prefer not to get into an argument over 9/11. It's a matter of personal energy. :frown:

Yes, it is very tiresome to look into these things, but I really wanted to 'see what all the fuss was about' and I'm sorry to report that in my opinion, there is something very wrong (criminal) at the heart of the US Government and it's agencies. Arriving at that conclusion is no fun at all and I can understand why ordinary people refuse to look into it - most people have a programmed response to the phrase 'conspiracy theory' as they do 'UFO' and that automatic response is to dismiss the idea out-of-hand without further investigation. This response is no accident.

Ignore the BS about holographic planes and beam weapons and look at the way the 'aftermath' has been swept under the carpet. Proper investigations into the events of 9/11 have been blocked. Evidence has been destroyed or hidden by agencies working for the US Government.

The word 'corruption' is too small a word to describe the way that agendas are created and executed in the name of 'American interests'.

In the light of this, I can understand why people become 'uncomfortable' with the idea of large 'camps' being constructed - after all, if they believe that their own Governments are capable of carrying out false-flag operations (and there is NO DOUBT that false flag operations ARE carried out) in order to further their agendas, then what else are they capable of?

 

[MagentaCandle]

Congressman Henry B. Gonzalez (RIP), admitted that there are actual plans to detain American citizens in the case of what the government would consider to be "terrorism".

Congressman Henry Gonzales (D,Tx) stated:

"The truth is yes...the plans are here... whereby you could, in the name of stopping terrorism... evoke the military and arrest Americans and put them in detention camps."


Here is an article in The Federal Observer which covered Mr. Gonzales's comments:

http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=753


Here is a little more info about Congressman Gonzales:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/29/bc.obit.gonzalez.ap/


Here is a video of Congressman Henry B. Gonzalez giving his famous speech about how there are plans right now, for the arresting of American citizens and the holding of American Citizens in detention camps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpXh7DCptaQ&eurl=http://www.fight4truth.com/concentrationcamps.htm

 

[fitzbew88]

Congressman Henry B. Gonzalez (RIP), admitted that there are actual plans to detain American citizens in the case of what the government would consider to be "terrorism".

Congressman Henry Gonzales (D,Tx) stated:

"The truth is yes...the plans are here... whereby you could, in the name of stopping terrorism... evoke the military and arrest Americans and put them in detention camps."

Yes --- so what? If the Americans are terrorists, why not? We arrest and detain murderers and thieves, why not terrorists? Making contingency plans for possible arrests is nothing untoward.

Still not seeing anything to be alarmed about here --- and I'm looking very hard!

Here is an article in The Federal Observer which covered Mr. Gonzales's comments:

http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=753

I'll assume you're attempting to be humorous by including a link from the Federal Observer. Do yourself a favor: the web site references some executive orders that support the "concentration camp" theory. Figure out which President signed them and what the EO really did. Apply some healthy skepticism.

Here is a video of Congressman Henry B. Gonzalez giving his famous speech about how there are plans right now, for the arresting of American citizens and the holding of American Citizens in detention camps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpXh7DCptaQ&eurl=http://www.fight4truth.com/concentrationcamps.htm

Sure...if an American is a terrorist, why wouldn't he or she be locked up? What is unusual about that?

The video is really a section from the Iran-Contra hearings in which Gonzalez asks Oliver North if he ever worked on continuity of government plans. (Rex 84?) Since such plans are highly secret, the committee chairman quickly shut the questioning down. So what? I don't see anything untoward here.

Many government agencies were involved in Rex 84; I'm not surprised the NSC was.

I still see nothing untoward in any of this: In the event of Something Really Bad happening, the Federal Government is going to have to do some bad things. Preparing for the worst is not a conspiracy.

I am trying to be open-minded, but so far all I'm seeing here is normal humdrum government/political activities wrapped in a transparent layer of paranoia.

Is this the best evidence available? Anybody interested in trying to convince me one more time? You *must* have reason to believe this is true --- a 20 year old 15 second excerpt from Iran Contra cannot be the foundation for this belief --- or that the government builds detention facilities for illegal immigrants --- or 50 year old executive orders --- you must have SOMETHING. This can't be all there is.

 

[fitzbew88]

Yes, it is very tiresome to look into these things, but I really wanted to 'see what all the fuss was about' and I'm sorry to report that in my opinion, there is something very wrong (criminal) at the heart of the US Government and it's agencies. Arriving at that conclusion is no fun at all and I can understand why ordinary people refuse to look into it - most people have a programmed response to the phrase 'conspiracy theory' as they do 'UFO' and that automatic response is to dismiss the idea out-of-hand without further investigation. This response is no accident

....

In the light of this, I can understand why people become 'uncomfortable' with the idea of large 'camps' being constructed - after all, if they believe that their own Governments are capable of carrying out false-flag operations (and there is NO DOUBT that false flag operations ARE carried out) in order to further their agendas, then what else are they capable of?

Well, if you want to, PM me in about a month and we can start a thread. (If you care to.)

I'd be willing to read one of the books you mentioned, although I am loathe to buy it. (There are a lot of books already straining my budget.)

As you well know, there is a lot of emotional baggage associated with 9/11 but I promise I will at least try to be objective.

I have got to get some other things off my plate before I can take on a complex topic like 9/11 conspiracies in a forum. For me, it really is a matter of time and energy.

 

[pixelsmith]

bush, cheney, gonzalez, rice.... ALL TERRORISTS. put them in the camps.

fitzbew88, if you need convincing just watch those 3 towers fall to the ground one more time. if you had half a brain some flags in your brain should start popping up.

 

[Rick Deckard]

Well, if you want to, PM me in about a month and we can start a thread. (If you care to.)

I'd be willing to read one of the books you mentioned, although I am loathe to buy it. (There are a lot of books already straining my budget.)

As you well know, there is a lot of emotional baggage associated with 9/11 but I promise I will at least try to be objective.

I have got to get some other things off my plate before I can take on a complex topic like 9/11 conspiracies in a forum. For me, it really is a matter of time and energy.

Gosh, where would I begin? The danger of course, is that I 'lead you' to the same conclusion as the one I arrived at...because if you only read the official reports, you'd have nothing to worry about and if you only read the 'alternative' explanations you'd be jumping under a train...I suspect the truth is somewhere in-between.

 

[Rick Deckard]

...if you had half a brain some flags in your brain should start popping up.

Come on, we don't need to hurl insults - I know it's not just you, everyone seems to be doing it. It isn't necessary.

 

[mike]

In the event of Something Really Bad happening, the Federal Government is going to have to do some bad things. Preparing for the worst is not a conspiracy.

take a look at ww2, and the internment camps for citizens of german, italian and japanese background. we had them here in australia and britain as well

there is an historical precident for such measures

i agree preparing for the worst is not a conspiracy

the needs of the many always outweigh the needs of the few

 

[fitzbew88]

...The danger of course, is that I 'lead you' to the same conclusion as the one I arrived at...because if you only read the official reports, you'd have nothing to worry about and if you only read the 'alternative' explanations you'd be jumping under a train...I suspect the truth is somewhere in-between.

I don't understand...where is the danger?

I am not afraid to consider unofficial information. All I care about is whether it is materially accurate and sensible.

By the way, I'd like to apologize for calling you a troll earlier in the thread. On my part, that was a much too heavy-handed response to something that was really none of my business. (I mean, that was between you and the poster of the "joke".) Anyway, sorry.

 

[fitzbew88]

In the event of Something Really Bad happening, the Federal Government is going to have to do some bad things. Preparing for the worst is not a conspiracy.

take a look at ww2, and the internment camps for citizens of german, italian and japanese background. we had them here in australia and britain as well

there is an historical precident for such measures

Not sure what in what context you are using the word "precedent", but in the U.S. at least we consider the internment of Japanese Americans at the beginning of our involvement in WWII to be among our most heinous self-inflicted wounds.

This action was the result of bigotry inflamed by panic and fear. Although it appears to have been legal at the time, it was a mistake. It didn't help the war effort --- it even hurt it.

We will NEVER NEVER start rounding up our own citizens based solely on ethnicity again.

Earlier when I said the government might have to do bad things, I meant like suspend habeas corpus or something like that. Not round people up based on ethnicity.

But even if the WWII was wrong-minded and irrational, its directors thought they had a good reason for it: that a Japanese invasion of the West Coast was imminent and that Japanese Americans represented an "army-in-waiting" for the Japanese Government.

Comparatively, the line of this current thread (self-inflicted American holocaust) just seems to me to be nonsensical, at least thus far. There is no reason for it, wrong or otherwise.

 

[mike]

all is fair, in love or war................

internment camps are just one example of what was done, at the time, given the nature of the emergency.

rationing is another,
meat, sugar , flour all were "on the rashion" in england during ww2.
the entire population cut itself short in order to "fuel" the force fighting the war.

most of us are all too young to remember the first and second world war. its almost inconceivable that a society could change so much in such drastic ways, but it can happen

 

[Rick Deckard]

By the way, I'd like to apologize for calling you a troll earlier in the thread. On my part, that was a much too heavy-handed response to something that was really none of my business. (I mean, that was between you and the poster of the "joke".) Anyway, sorry.

No problem. It's already forgotten.

Funny thing forums. It's a bit like driving your car - someone cuts you up and you react angrily. It's almost an automatic response. You see the car, not the driver. Forums are the same.

I've lost count of how many times have I started to post an 'emotional' response and then cancelled after I've had time to think it through...

If we were all sat in a bar talking about this crap, we'd probably be a lot more civil to each other (although the followers of the one-armed-swissed-farmer might earn a slap before the night was over ).

 

[MagentaCandle]

Congressman Jim McDermot made a speech about the "internment camps" and the rounding up of American citizens during Martial Law in the United States:

http://www.house.gov/mcdermott/sp030311.shtml

In the speech, Congressman Jim McDermot said:

"From 1982 to 1984, Colonel Oliver North assisted FEMA in drafting its civil defense preparations. Details of those plans emerged during the 1987 Iran-Contra scandal. They included executive orders providing for suspension of the Constitution, the imposition of martial law, internment camps, and the turning over of government to the President and FEMA."

 

[MagentaCandle]

Daniel Hamburg is a former Democratic Congressman who was elected to the 1st Congressional District of California in 1992 and also subsequently ran for Governor of California, finishing in 3rd place.

Hamburg co-wrote a well-received recent article carried by the San Francisco Chronicle in which he outlined the program to incarcerate American citizens in internment camps, which have already been publicly built, during a time of declared national emergency.

Here is the article that former Congressman Daniel Hamburg wrote about these "prison" camps for American citizens.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...4/ED5OUPQJ7.DTL

In the article, former Congressman Hamburg states that:

"Since 9/11, and seemingly without the notice of most Americans, the federal government has assumed the authority to institute martial law, arrest a wide swath of dissidents (citizen and noncitizen alike), and detain people without legal or constitutional recourse in the event of "an emergency influx of immigrants in the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs."

But I have already stated before that I think what the government claims these camps are for and what they are really for is two different things. They aren't permanently for illegal aliens because our government is currently pushing for the SPPA. A "north-american partnership" AKA North American Union AKA Open borders policy.

And again, they are not just being built in the USA, they are being built all over the World.

 

[Koji K.]

You know, we have two HUGE detainment problems in the US.

1.) The problem of what is effect a Federal gulag, where hundreds if not thousands of resident aliens have been detained, denied access to legal counsel, and their names and detainment itself kept secret, in the period following 9/11.

2.) The problem of America topping all lists for worlds biggest jailer, with more people in prison for nonviolent crimes than any other nation, spurred on by powerful lobbying groups representing the private prison industry.

Why not focus on these real problems instead of digging up and putting spin on old documents and speculating on architecture?

 

[fitzbew88]

Congressman Jim McDermot made a speech about the "internment camps" and the rounding up of American citizens during Martial Law in the United States:

http://www.house.gov/mcdermott/sp030311.shtml

All I see here is a speech by a Senator worried about a government over-stepping its bounds. These are justified fears; but no evidence of an impending self-inflicted holocaust.

In some of the postings it seems like Congress is a participant in this conspiracy; in others it is warning us about it. The conspiracy seems to cross decades and eight presidential administrations.

With every post, it seems less and less credible.

 

[fitzbew88]

Daniel Hamburg is a former Democratic Congressman who was elected to the 1st Congressional District of California in 1992 and also subsequently ran for Governor of California, finishing in 3rd place.

Hamburg co-wrote a well-received recent article carried by the San Francisco Chronicle in which he outlined the program to incarcerate American citizens in internment camps, which have already been publicly built, during a time of declared national emergency.

Here is the article that former Congressman Daniel Hamburg wrote about these "prison" camps for American citizens.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...4/ED5OUPQJ7.DTL

This article is just fear-speak (co-written by an environmental activist) intended to let future eco-terrorists realize that they will be subject to anything the Feds do to combat terrorism on U.S. soil.

I hate to say it again, but so what?

No sign of a conspiracy.

But I have already stated before that I think what the government claims these camps are for and what they are really for is two different things. They aren't permanently for illegal aliens because our government is currently pushing for the SPPA. A "north-american partnership" AKA North American Union AKA Open borders policy.

Now it sounds like you are saying is that everything the government is saying is true ... for now...but they are suddenly going to change overnight and declare illegal immigrants legal --- release them --- and then begin to round up Americans to fill up the now-empty detention facilities. For no known reason.

On the surface, can't you see how this looks?

And again, they are not just being built in the USA, they are being built all over the World.

Let me guess --- now, it's not a federal government conspiracy but the Illuminati? Can you just take a few steps back and look at how this sounds?

You don't seem to have any reason to believe any of this. It seems like you *want* it to be true.