Gaza Israel bombings

[Tyger]

I just came across this quote, that I think speaks to internet chat above all: "I don't share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently. I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they're not alone." I think if that were more clearly accepted there would be far less angst.

I guess we all come to the internet chat table with differing intentions. For some it's a need to claim victory. For others its an academic dialectic. For others it's a chance to slice and dice with relish and no thought of consequences to the word. For some it's a battle, for others it's a chat under the trees. For some it's just argument for argument sake.

For those who have truly read this thread you have read the clarifications on Islam and what is and is not part of mainstream Islam. You know that Muslims suffer from the same problems from their fundamentalist strata as do Christians and Jews. I think the worst of what I see here is the fear-mongering - and the accusation of anti-semitism to justify racial and religious hate. How easily the spark can be lit. How easily it can go up in flames. There has been a prediction - many, many decades ago, when things were quite sedate in the Middle East - that WWIII would begin out of Israel/Palestine. The craziness may go that far and they nuke us all.

Imagine the 'war in heaven' taking place! It is said that every conflagration on the earth saw it's inception and first playing out in the spiritual worlds. A very old Occultist (of the 19th century) talked about the 'argument' that occurred at a 'council' among Initiates (in the 1st millennium) regarding the augmentation of Islam. We are living out quite a story.

Where are those aliens? Could use a few flying saucer sightings (how innocent that sounds) to distract from the earth's misery.

 

[kanakaris]

This thread was about the Israeli killings on civilians in Gaza , their occupation of Palestine.And now it is hijacked and is all about extremist idiots.Fine work...

 

[mike]

Something else seems to be afoot. You know about the gas and oil that has been discovered in the Gaza? If Israel is really keen on that one state why were they afraid of the Unity government?

You keep bringing this up, yet the problem has existed since long before such discoverys, You want it to be this because that reinforces your stereotype of greedy theiving jews. Did some jew banker foreclose on your home ? did some grasping jew rip you off ?

Cause that seems to be a focus of yours.

Weapons cost money, the bigger the weapon the more money it costs. Why on earth would Israel want a nation that teaches its children to hate and aspire to kill jews at the same time as they teach em not to crap their undies have access to resources like this if the proceeds from these resources simply meant a better armed rabid wolf at the door ?

Its the same reason colonial americans didnt want the indians to have guns.

The "concrete" issue highlights this problem

But thanks to all that pressure from the Obama Administration and the United Nations, Gaza has been receiving plenty of concrete for “humanitarian” purposes. And now we can see why Hamas was so anxious to get those building materials – in order to build its vast network of underground terror tunnels so it could murder Israelis more easily.
Commonsense & Wonder: Hamas used the concrete meant for building houses to build terror tunnels.

Fox News has obtained a copy of an internal report by a United Nations audit committee that reveals how Hamas diverted internationally supplied moneys and concrete for the construction of terror tunnels and the purchase of weapons.
Israel Matzav: How Hamas diverted internationally-supplied concrete to build terror tunnels

After the failure of Hamas' rocket forces to inflict significant damage on Israeli towns in November 2012, they decided to build a large offensive-tunnel capability that would enable them to infiltrate assault teams into Israeli villages within a few kilometres of the border or place large bombs underneath these villages.

Concrete that should have gone to the reconstruction, went instead to the offensive.

 

[mike]

This thread was about the Israeli killings on civilians in Gaza , their occupation of Palestine.And now it is hijacked and is all about extremist idiots.Fine work...

You are quite right the Thread was designed to be one sided, all about Israelis killing gazans, The extremists in Hamas who want this to happen to further their own twisted ideological aims were supposed to get a free pass. Its only bad when the jews do it right ?

Israel is fighting extreemist idiots........ Thats the truth of the matter, and the truth will out as they say

 

[Tyger]

Mike, you should know that I don't actually read your posts anymore and haven't for quite some time. "You shout so loudly I cannot hear what you say" as the saying goes. The personal focus of your posts I find odd (as with your other Michael who's your cheering section) - and just overall the toxicity is too much. We all make our choices what to let into our personal world. You have made your choices. Take care. Peace.

 

[mike]

Mike, you should know that I don't actually read your posts anymore and haven't for quite some time. "You shout so loudly I cannot hear what you say" as the saying goes. The personal focus of your posts I find odd (as with your other Michael who's your cheering section) - and just overall the toxicity is too much. We all make our choices what to let into our personal world. You have made your choices. Take care. Peace.

Im about intellectual honesty, something you clearly lack when you reply to my posts by saying you dont read them ...........

Fess up you do, or you wouldnt be posting you dont

 

[mike]

You know they make bread out of childrens blood dont you ?

As Hamas and other Gazan terrorist organizations continue to fire rockets at Israel, the official Palestinian Authority daily is repeating the old blood libel that Jews use the blood of others to make their Passover Matzah bread. Member of the Fatah Leadership Committee in Gaza Yahya Rabah wrote that “these rockets” are the only way to enter into “dialogue” with “these Israeli murderers,” whose God, “according to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion” demands that Jews sacrifice to him matzah bread made of blood of “our children.”

Official PA daily: Jews' God demands "Passover Matzah made from the blood of our children" | Pamela Geller, Atlas Shrugs

Blood libel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[kanakaris]

You are quite right the Thread was designed to be one sided, all about Israelis killing gazans, The extremists in Hamas who want this to happen to further their own twisted ideological aims were supposed to get a free pass. Its only bad when the jews do it right ?

Israel is fighting extreemist idiots........ Thats the truth of the matter, and the truth will out as they say

No , this is about Israel getting a free pass.Do they occupy and steal land and houses for decades , yes or no ?I'm out , have a nice day.

 

[stonehart]

You are quite right the Thread was designed to be one sided, all about Israelis killing gazans, The extremists in Hamas who want this to happen to further their own twisted ideological aims were supposed to get a free pass. Its only bad when the jews do it right ?

Israel is fighting extreemist idiots........ Thats the truth of the matter, and the truth will out as they say

Old thread restarted and my opinion is this ... they are as bad as each other.

Thought I should make that clear.
My thoughts are with the kids etc who by no doing of their own are born into a hell created by both sides.

 

[Bananas]

No , this is about Israel getting a free pass.Do they occupy and steal land and houses for decades , yes or no ?I'm out , have a nice day.

Without addressing the context, anything said about the matter would be irrelevant and down right stupid. Reality isn't a fucking post on twitter.

 

[mike]

No , this is about Israel getting a free pass.Do they occupy and steal land and houses for decades , yes or no ?I'm out , have a nice day.

Thats a fair question and my honest answer is im not happy with some of the reports of settlers stealing land, destroying olive groves etc.

Its a complex issue, on the one hand its clearly wrong from many perspectives. On the other there are military advantages to extending control over these lands, with modern weapons the buffer zone needs to be wider. Is that used as an excuse sometimes. Yes i think so.

Is it grounds to target Israeli civilians with rockets, well thats a matter of perspective but according to the conventions its not

Human rights watch makes this very point here

Im not giving anyone a free pass here, this mess is disgraceful, but the fault is not one sided which has been a prevailing sentiment here

 

[manxman]

Your attempt's to keep shifting the focus of debate are falling flat mike.

They are not going to succumb to your constant endless IDF spokes-person propaganda, it is to blatant, nor your attempt's to take 'it' personal.

[ the 'it' being you ramping up the implied ad hom's to your fellow forumites, you are letting it get personal mike, when it isnt. ]

 

[truthseeker]

Why is there "no support for Israel?"

• Do you mean other than the Muslim Berbers, Muslim Druze, Muslim Bedouins, Circassians, and other Israeli Arabs who fight within and alongside the IDF because they know their own survival depends upon Israel's survival?
• Do you mean other than Muslim Kurds, who not only respect Israel's right to exist but are also desperately fighting for a homeland of their own so they will not be oppressed or slaughtered by other Muslim groups? (It should also be noted that Iraqi Kurdistan has been seen as a refuge for the Shabaki people, who themselves are feeling Islamic tyranny during the ISIL offensive.)
• Do you mean other than the 12 current Muslim members of the Knesset, many if not most of whom would not be given any voice in any other Muslim country?
• Do you mean other than Muslim LGBTs who have fled to Israel because it is the ONLY Middle Eastern country which not only tolerates homosexuals, but also keeps them from being tortured and killed by other Muslim governments and individuals. Aswat, a Palestinian-Lesbian support group, has its headquarters in Israel. See if you can figure out why...
• Do you mean other than the governments of Jordan and Egypt, both of whom will become permanently destabilized if Islamic Extremists gain a stronger foothold in that region. Egypt and Israel routinely cooperate in terms of security, as neither side wants to be subjected to an Islamic dictatorship.

This shouldn't come as a surprise to you, but those Muslim groups that face systematic oppression or slaughter by other Muslim groups overwhelmingly support Israel, some of whom you can see listed above. It also shouldn't come as a surprise, but certain Middle Eastern countries that are struggling with their own fledgling democracies also tend to side with Israel when extremist groups wish to destroy those democracies. Beyond a shadow of a doubt, the Single Biggest Threat to Muslims in the Middle East are from other Muslims in the Middle East. For this reason -- though contrary to to the myths being purported on this thread -- there is no shortage of Muslim support for Israel.

The following account is from a Muslim man fighting in the IDF.
“One day, a young Arab woman arrived at the checkpoint with a knife and tried to stab a soldier. When I was called to the scene she burst into tears and showed me her body. It was covered with black and blue marks. I understood that she had been severely beaten at home for having soiled the family’s honor and that she didn’t really want to kill a soldier. It was just her way of getting away from her family. She preferred to be in an Israeli jail rather than going back home, possibly to her death.”

Read that again, I'll wait and catch you on the next paragraph.

I also hope you'll take the time to read the entire interview, as it gives a good glimpse -- from the eyes of a Muslim -- into why many of them are also Zionists.


So much for the bullshit comparing Hitler's genocide to Israel's wanting to protect itself and other Muslims from oppression, torture and slaughter. Muslims in Israel tend to fare better than in most Muslim countries in the world, especially if they are LGBT, part of a smaller Muslim ethnicity, or female. (You might want to Google "Irshad Manji" for a very unique view regarding why that particular Muslim lesbian journalist is also a Zionist. It will put to rest some of the absurd arguments coming from people on this thread who believe they are suddenly experts on the situation in the Middle East.)

Once upon a time when I was a much younger, I only heard the kind of hate and stupidity against Jews and Israel coming from the most rabidly right-wing among us. Now, it's almost exclusively coming from my fellow liberals, based on a pernicious anti-Semitism that seems to think the world would be a better place if only Jews didn't have any right to self-determination. Headlines in The Guardian UK scream, "Antisemitism on rise across Europe 'in worst time since the Nazis'".

Let me ask you, where would you like Jews to live? Should they just accept their very existence means they should be routinely oppressed or killed in very places that have always oppressed and killed them in real genocides? It would appear most of the people on this thread don't want them to live in Israel, and probably don't want them living anywhere else. After painfully reading this thread (and losing all respect for many of the people posting here), I can only conclude that they simply want Jews to be dead -- at which point we'll likely see peace in the Middle East for at least a few minutes -- until the headlines are screaming again about certain Muslim groups slaughtering all other Muslim groups.

One final note: I have yet to hear a single peep coming from anyone, liberal or conservative, about how Pakistan was carved out of India so the Muslims there could have their own homeland. This led to the systematic removal and slaughter of several hundred thousand to a few million people, Hindus being the primary target in that nation's birth. To date, Hindus make up only 1.6% of Pakitan's population, which is a number that is still declining due to being actively persecuted. (To date, there are virtually no Jews in Pakistan, in spite of having a historical presence there. They had to flee for their lives, mostly to Israel.) Pakistan has since been marred by genocide against other Pakistani Muslims, killing an estimated 300,000 to 3 million of its own people, causing east Pakistan to form its own country now known as Bangladesh. In contrast, the Muslims who stayed in India have been allowed to flourish, making up 14.6% of that country's population, twelve of them even becoming among modern India's presidents. India now has more Muslims than Pakistan. Meanwhile, Israel not only has 12 Muslims in its government, Arab-Israelis make up 20.7% of that country's population.

Food for thought.

RenaissanceLady,
you do know that Jews cause all the problems in the world, right? I mean, if there is drought in CA it's obviously caused by the Zionists. 9/11 attack on WTC was a clear Mossad operation. Didn't you read the memo how all the Jews were told to evacuate before the attacks happened? If only Israel ceased to exist along with the entire Jewish population of the world think of how happier everyone would be - no more wars, no more hatred, no more ISIS. The entire world just holding hands and singing kumbaya.

 

[mike]

Your attempt's to keep shifting the focus of debate are falling flat mike.

They are not going to succumb to your constant endless IDF spokes-person propaganda, it is to blatant, nor your attempt's to take 'it' personal.

[ the 'it' being you ramping up the implied ad hom's to your fellow forumites, you are letting it get personal mike, when it isnt. ]

Im not an IDF spokes-person, i'm not even Jewish. Scotish/welsh/english bloodlines in my case.(Celtic red head here)

I simply recognise that Israel isnt doing anything other nations havent done in war including annexing strategic territory, sending ground forces into enemy territory, and killing enemy combatants and civilians.
Every other nation has reserved, and continues to reserve the right to do this in the exact same circumstances.
Singling out jews, in a conflict being fought by two distinct sides speaks more to a personal agenda to me.

Again i dont think your western mindset is capable of understanding.

You were taught your cultures magic sky man loves everyone (whether you subscribe to the concept or not, thats your cultures view)

Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Red, brown, yellow
Black and white
They are precious in His sight.
Jesus loves the little children
Of the world.

So when you hear Muslims speak of "God" you naturally call up that image.

But their god doesnt love everybody, he hates jews, and he hates polythiests and idolators and a whole list of other things
Your god says thou shalt not kill, their god says you must kill, wherever you find them. and that you will be rewarded for doing so

You dont share a fence with neigbours whose god commands them to kill you, kill every last one of you

So before you put Israel in its place, put yourself in their place

A good christian doesnt behead ppl, a good muslim does.

These clowns in the caliphate consider themselves to be good muslims, true muslims, faithful to the word of allah as its written in their stinking book.

Hamas and Islamic Jihad are the same.

Share a fence with that sort of insanity and see how long compassion and lines in the sand last.


You think of God and the ten commandments, including though shalt not kill

This is what their god commands, as that poor journalist found out first hand

I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers.
Quran 8:12, "The Spoils"
Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage.
Quran 2:190-2:191,
When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.
Quran 9:5;
Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.
Quran 9:123,
Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.
Quran 48:29,
Those that make war against God and His apostle and spread disorder in the land shall be slain and crucified or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or be banished from the land.
Quran 5:33
When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.
Quran 47:4
Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. God does not guide the wrong-doers.
Quran 5:51
Believers, know that the idolaters [non-Muslims] are unclean.
Quran 9:28,


We are not dealing with rational reasonable people, Israel isnt dealing with reasonable rational people here.
You are trying to make sense of this matter via your limited cultural world view. And its why you fail to understand the situation on the ground

 

[mike]

In 1991, the US bombed Iraq. US pilots slaughtered thousands of fleeing Iraqi conscript soldiers as they withdrew from Kuwait. They called it a “turkey shoot” to emphasise the criminal disregard for human life. The soldiers’ bodies, some still alive, were mercilessly bulldozed into the sands along what was dubbed the “highway of death” running from the south towards Baghdad. Then the US and its allies imposed sanctions as a “peaceful” way to bring down Saddam Hussein. More than a million deaths was the result. Madeline Albright, then US secretary of state, responding to the fact that 500,000 of the dead were children, later said “we think the price is worth it”.

http://redflag.org.au/article/soil-nurtured-islamic-state

Its only bad when jews do it though. Amiright ?

 

[flipper]

Here is another version of events with no heroes. Only victims, plotters and evil fanatics. It is different than the good us, and the bad them version.
ROVING EYE
The killer on the (Saudi) king's highway
By Pepe Escobar
And why did Islamic State, formerly ISIS, become winners? Because the "West" regimented, schooled, trained, logistically helped and weaponized most of IS's Takfiri goons with a mission at hand: to destroy Syria. The "West" lauded them as "Syrian rebels". Freedom fighters.
********************************
The killer spoke with a British accent. Yet he may not be just a well-paid mercenary (500 from Britain, 700 from France, 500 from Belgium… ). He's most certainly a true believer in the wider IS medievalist ideology as well as its no-holds-barred sectarian methods.
Then the sartorially composed Man in Black beheaded American photojournalist James Foley.
How convenient that IS strategy is totally divide and rule. Totally balkanization of Iraq. Totally mum on Israel's slow-motion ethnic cleansing of Gaza. Totally useful in wagging the (beheading) dog to make the world forget about Gaza.

Moroever, IS/ISIS strategy, stripped to the bone, is Pentagon manual; clear, hold and build - then expand (to an area larger than Great Britain).
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MID-01-210814.html

 

[flipper]

Lesley Hazleton an agnostic Jew wrote an book called the first Muslum:

Reviews — The First Muslim
From her blog:
I am going to wage peace upon everyone who disagrees with me. It will be an aggressive, offensive and hostile strike that will continue until I inflict the final death blow to misunderstandings and conflict. I will gather all my available resources & weapons for this assault. I will never surrender until the foes of harmony surrender. I declare war on war. I will inflict peace on everyone and occupy your fear with understanding. You will suffer under my brutal campaign of tranquility. The enemy will endure the horrors of justice, tolerance, compassion and freedom. I will indoctrinate the aggressors with acceptance until the resistance is futile. I will show no mercy for hate. If you are not with me you are against warmth, love and little furry baby animals.
The Accidental Theologist | Just another WordPress.com weblog

 

[mike]

Whats funny about this is that they wouldnt put a burka on the lady

They would tear her down, Statues are forbidden in Islam.

They are considered Idols, and people might worship them. This particular statue would be one of the first to go, given its venerated by the ppl already

 

[stonehart]

Whats funny about this is that they wouldnt put a burka on the lady

They would tear her down, Statues are forbidden in Islam.

They are considered Idols, and people might worship them. This particular statue would be one of the first to go, given its venerated by the ppl already

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”

The truth is in Islam this is an anathema to Islamic ideals....

 

[Tyger]

Whatever it all is that Israel and the West in general thinks they are doing is not working. What do they say about doing the same thing expecting different results? Insanity?

LINK: Video: Palestinian elder fearlessly confronts Israeli soldiers | The Electronic Intifada

The old man is saying: "Gaza is steadfastness, Gaza is heroes, Gaza is revolution, Gaza is rage, Gaza is victory, Gaza is the lifeline of the Palestinian people. Our blood is not more precious than the blood of the children or the resistance of Gaza. We will redeem you Gaza. We are all with you Gaza. Do not rely on the Arabs; tell them to sleep comfortably. But we Palestinians do not fear rifles or cannons."