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Good article on did Jesus exsist?

Free episodes:

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Ive already answered that question with a single word many pages back.
Now who is dodging and twisting ?

The onus is now on you to answer mine, since you think JC was a real person, do you subscribe to his teachings that

Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace on earth! No, rather a sword
Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." Matthew 10:21

“He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” Matthew 15:4-7

The servant who knew the will of his master and did not prepare for him according to his will, he shall be beaten many times.”

Clearly you are wrong when you say you cannot lay evil deeds at jesus's feet.
Clearly he incited violence and murder, and said it was OK to beat slaves.

Ive already answered the question, Its your turn now.
 
CitizenK and any other women on this forum.

One of the things i find about forums is ones sex has nothing to do with it.
Imo im dealing with minds online, a posters sex is irrelevant.

Not that im surprised at a sexist attitude from you kim

As a feminist, I find it my duty to site the following verses and remind fellow women of the sexist pig they are told to worship. I can not possibly list all of the injustices that the Torah mentions. Everything from the story of Lilith (who was booted out of Eden for having dominant sex with Adam) to how women are blamed for the fall from grace. I had to settle for merely presenting a sample list as of right now and I shall add more verses as I thumb threw the Pentateuch a second time. In the mean while, please feel free to utilize anything you see here.
Genesis 3:16 Says that all women must suffer great pains during child birth due to Eve eating the fruit of knowledge. (As if it is somehow just that humans should pay for their ancestor’s sins nor is a woman dying in labor some how befitting of a crime she did not commit.) The verse finishes of by saying a husband shall “rule” over his woman, stripping us off all power in between the sexes.

Genesis 19:8 Tells of a man named Lot who offers his daughters to a crowd of would be angel rapers. Later, Lot impregnates his own daughters after God kills his wife for simply looking back at the remains of her city.

Genesis 38:16-24 Tells a very interesting story of a man named Judah whom lived with his widowed daughter in law. His daughter in law was grieving and wearing the veils of mourning which Judah (a rather stupid man) mistook for the clothing of a prostitute. He ended up impregnating his daughter in law and she left the city. On a later date Judah sees the young woman again and demanded she be burned for being a prostitute (I like how only the woman is punished when THEY BOTH engaged in the sexual act). It wasn’t until Judah recognized the woman as his daughter in law and she was with his child, that he decided not to kill her. Basically, Judah can commit incest, use a prostitute (in his mistaken perception), and impregnate a MUCH younger woman, yet he thinks she is the one deserving of death.

Exodus 21:3-4 Says that if a male slave is given a wife by his master (regardless of how long they are wed, how much they love each other or if they have kids) he can not leave servanthood with his wife or children. The woman and children are merely property of the master and their personal happiness or sanctity of family doesn’t matter.

Exodus 21:7 God not only sanctions selling ones daughter into slavery, but he also gives out laws on how it should be done.

Exodus 21:10 God ordains men taking several wives and even sets up laws as to how multiple wives should be handled.

Leviticus 12:1-8 Explains that a woman has to be purified after giving birth because she is “unclean”. It goes on to say that birthing a male is cleaner then birthing a female, hence a mother must purify TWICE as long when having a daughter. This is BLATANT sexism from the point of birth. A woman is dirty simply for being a woman; this is obviously very biased and chauvinistic.
Lots more here
Sexism in the Torah

Deuteronomy 20:13-15 Kill all the men and boys in the cities that God “delivers into your hands,” but keep the women for raping.

Deuteronomy 21:11-14 If you see a pretty woman among the captives then just take her home and “go in unto her.”

And of course the new testament Tim 2:12 (keeping in mind JC himself says the OT laws are also still valid)

1 Timothy 2:12

New International Version (NIV)
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

How handy it must be for a good christian man to whip out tim 2:12 when he wants to silence his wife.
Look dear its in gods manual for humanity, shut yer gob.

But apologists will insist theirs is a religion of peace love and tolerance.....
 
One of the things i find about forums is ones sex has nothing to do with it.
Imo im dealing with minds online, a posters sex is irrelevant.

Where mental masturbation is concerned, biology is of course, irrelevant. [I, I struggle with the use of commas, is that painfully obvious?]
 
On the topic of cut and paste.

Why wouldnt i cut and paste those data points that support my argument ?
That many of them are so large, simply indicates the volume of evidence which supports my premise.

What i find hilarious is that kim could complain about this, but his own religion is happy to cherry pick all the peace love and mungbeans stuff out of the bible to support the claim christ is all about love (ive cut and pasted enough data to prove thats not true)

Go to church on sunday (sat if your a seven day adventist) and you will get a cut and paste cherry picked sermon.

When was the last time your local pulpit jockey gave a sermon on this one

2 Kings 2:23-24
King James Version (KJV)
23And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

24And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.


Barnes' Notes on the Bible
On this occasion only do we find Elisha a minister of vengeance. Perhaps it was necessary to show, at the outset of his career as a prophet, that he too, so mild and peaceful could, like Elijah, wield the terrors of God's judgments (1 Kings 19:19 note). The persons really punished were, not so much the children, as the wicked parents 2 Kings 2:23, whose mouth-pieces the children were, and who justly lost the gift of offspring of which they had shown themselves unworthy.

When was the last time you heard your local pulpit jockey tell you that the hideous death of 42 kiddies was JUST

who justly lost the gift of offspring

Of course not, you get a cherry picked "god/jesus is love" sermon
 
Where mental masturbation is concerned, biology is of course, irrelevant. [I, I struggle with the use of commas, is that painfully obvious?]
Well if you call online debate masturbation, why not just haunt a porn site instead and leave the rest of us to discuss the topic at hand.
Your last few posts have clearly been about some personal issue you have with me, rather than the topic.
 
Great gods, I give up.

Take me! Take me!
"Who Mourns for Adonais?" STOS

hahahahaha that is why I left this sort of "discussion" years ago my friend. I remember my professor once saying you may as well argue with a rock than with the truly faithful.
Ok anyway I am going to duck again :p lots of sharp things flying around in this thread.
 
1st hand some one who met him who assocated with him some one who is a witness to his works. some one that can attest he is real and DO NOT under any cicumstsance say the bible. for that is unrelible in the extreme. NONE of your refrences are 1st hand did plinty the elder meet jesus? NO! did josepus? NO! DID any one you site acully MEET him SEE him TALK to him? thats what I want an account of some one who MET jesus SAW him TALKED to him and the account is writen and recorded OUTSIDE the pages of the Bible. for you see OUTSIDE the Bible there is NO 1st hand accounts of him. sorry Jesus is a myth.
 
You'd think the romans would have recorded someone who could turn water into wine.....
and raise the dead......
Why would you crucify someone who could do that ? you'd take him back to Rome and put him to work at the bottling end of an aqua duct, now thats home brewing.....................
 
You'd think the romans would have recorded someone who could turn water into wine.....
and raise the dead......
Why would you crucify someone who could do that ? you'd take him back to Rome and put him to work at the bottling end of an aqua duct, now thats home brewing.....................

And fun at party's
 
That trick with the loaves and the fishies would have been of great use to Rome's armys
Imagine being able to feed an army of 5,000 with such small provisions......

Surely if someone could do these things, it would have been front page news........

Caesar would have had him dragged back to Rome to be exploited the same way Rome exploited any other resource under its dominion.
 
That trick with the loaves and the fishies would have been of great use to Rome's armys
Imagine being able to feed an army of 5,000 with such small provisions......

Surely if someone could do these things, it would have been front page news........

Caesar would have had him dragged back to Rome to be exploited the same way Rome exploited any other resource under its dominion.

The miracle of the loaves and fishers reminded me of parallels between the Buddha and Jesus.

Not my work but it makes for interesting reading if you have the time.

Jesus and Buddha have some interesting similarities:
1. Both Buddha and Jesus were baptized in the presence of
the "spirit" of G--d. (De Bunsen, p. 45; Matthew 3:16.)

2. Both went to their temples at the age of twelve, where they are
said to have astonished all with their wisdom. (Ibid., p. 37; Luke
2:41--48.)

3. Both supposedly fasted in solitude for a long time: Buddha for
forty--seven days and Jesus for forty. (Arthur Lillie, Buddha and
Early Buddhism (London, 1881), p. 100, Matthew 4:2.)

4. At the conclusion of their fasts, they both wandered to a fig
tree. (Hans Joachim Schoeps, An Intelligent Person's Guide to the
Religions of Mankind (London, 1967), p. 167; Matthew 21:18--19.)

5. Both were about the same age when they began their public
ministry:
* "When he [Buddha] went again to the garden he saw a monk who was
calm, tranquil, self--possessed, serene, and dignified. The prince,
determined to become such a monk, was led to make the great
renunciation. At the time he was twenty--nine years of age...".
(Encyclopedia Americana (New York: Rand McNally and Co., 1963), vol.
4, p. 672.)
* "Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of
age" (Luke 3:23).

6. Both were tempted by the "devil" at the beginning of their
ministry:
* To Buddha, he said: "Go not forth to adopt a religious life but
return to your kingdom, and in seven days you shall become emperor of
the world, riding over the four continents." (Moncure D. Conway, The
Sacred Anthology (London, 1874), p. 173.)
* To Jesus, he said: "All these [kingdoms of the world] I will give
you, if you fall down and worship me" (Matthew 4:9).

7. Buddha answered the "devil": "Get you away from me." (De Bunsen,
p.38)
* Jesus responded: "...begone, Satan!" (Matthew 4:10).

8. Both experienced the "supernatural" after the "devil" left:
* For Buddha: "The skies rained flowers, and delicious odors
prevailed [in] the air." (Ibid.)
* For Jesus: "angels came and ministered to him" (Matthew 4:11).

9. The multitudes required a sign from both in order that they
might believe. (Muller, Science, p. 27; Matthew 16:1.)

10. Both strove to establish a kingdom of heaven on earth. (Beal,
p. x; Matthew 4:17.)
* Buddha "represented himself as a mere link in a long chain of
enlightened teachers." (Muller, Science, p. 140.)

11. Jesus said: "Think not that I have come to abolish the law, and
the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them"
(Matthew 5:17).

12. According to the Somadeva (a Buddhist holy book), a Buddhist
ascetic's eye once offended him, so he plucked it out and cast it
away. (Ibid., p. 245)
* Jesus said: "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out,
and throw it away;" (Matthew 5:29).

13. "Buddha taught that the motive of all our actions should be
pity or love of our neighbor." (Ibid., p. 249)
* Jesus taught: "...love your enemies and pray for those who
persecute you" (Matthew 5:44).

14. Buddha said: "Hide your good deeds, and confess before the
world the sins you have committed." (Ibid., p.28)
* Jesus said: "Beware of practicing your piety before men to be
seen by them;" (Matthew 6:1) and "Therefore confess your sins one to
another, and pray one for another, that you may be healed..." (James
5:16).

15. Both are said to have known the thoughts of others:
* "By directing his mind to the thoughts of others, [Buddha] can
know the thoughts of all beings." (R. Spence Hardy, The Legends and
Theories of the Buddhists Compared with History and Science (London,
1866), p. 181.)
* "But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said: `Why do you think evil
in your hearts?' " (Matthew 9:4).

16. After "healing" a man born blind, Buddha said: "The disease of
this man originates in his sinful actions in former times." (Prof.
Max Muller, ed., Sacred Books of the East (Oxford: Clarendon Press,
1879--1910), vol. 21, p. 129f.)
* "As [Jesus] passed by, he saw a man blind from his birth. And his
disciples said to him: `Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents,
that he was born blind?' " (John 9:1--2).

17. Both were itinerant preachers with a close group of trustees
within a larger group of disciples. (James Hastings, ed.,
Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (New York: Edinburgh T. & T.
Clark, 1918), vol. 6, p. 883; Matthew 26:20.)

18. Both demanded that their disciples renounce all worldly
possessions. (Hardy, Monachism, p. 6; Luke 14:33.)
* "The number of the disciples rapidly increased, and Gautama sent
forth his monks on missionary tours hither and thither, bidding them
wander everywhere, preaching the doctrine, and teaching men to order
their lives with self--restraint, simplicity, and charity."
(Hastings, vol. 6, p.883)
* "And [Jesus] called to him the twelve [apostles], and began to
send them out two by two.So they went out and preached that men
should repent" (Mark 6:7, 12).

19. Both had a disciple who "walked" on water:
* To convert skeptical villagers, Buddha showed them his disciple
walking across a river without sinking. (Lillie, p. 140)
* "He said: `Come.' So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the
water and came to Jesus, but when he saw the wind, he was afraid, and
beginning to sink he cried out: `Lord, save me!' " (Matthew 14:29--
30).

20. "One day Ananda, the disciple of Buddha, after a long walk in
the country, meets with Matangi, a woman of the low caste of the
Kandalas, near a well, and asks her for some water. She tells him
what she is, and that she must not come near him. But he replies: `My
sister, I ask not for your caste or your family, I ask only for a
drought of water. She afterwards became a disciple of Buddha."
(Muller, Science, p. 243)
* "There came a woman of Samaria to draw water. Jesus said to her:
`Give me a drink.' For his disciples had gone away into the city to
buy food. The Samaritan woman said to him: `How is it that you, a
Jew, ask a drink of me, a woman of Samaria?' For Jews have no
dealings with Samaritans" (John 4:7--9).

21. Each repeated a question three times:
* "The Buddha next addressed the bhikkhus and requested them three
times to ask him if they had any doubt or question that they wished
clarified, but they all remained silent." (Encyclopedia Britannica
(New York: William and Helen Benton, 1974), vol. 2, p. 373.)
* "[Jesus] said to him the third time: `Simon, son of John, do you
love me?' Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time:
`Do you love me?'" (John 21:17).

22. Both received similar receptions:
* "The people swept the pathway, the gods strewed flowers on the
pathway and branches of the coral tree, the men bore branches of all
manner of trees, and the Bodhisattva Sumedha spread his garments in
the mire, [and] men and gods shouted: `All hail.' " (Hardy, Legends,
p.134)
* "And they brought the colt to Jesus, and threw their garments on
it; and he sat on it. And many spread their garments on the road, and
others spread leafy branches which they had cut from the fields"
(Mark 11:7--8).

23. Both had an archival:
* "[Buddha's] chief rival was Devadatta, a cousin of the Buddha,
who is represented as being jealous of his influence and popularity,
and as repeatedly seeking to compass his death." (Hastings, vol. 6,
p.883)
* "While [Jesus] was still speaking, Judas came, one of the twelve,
and with him a great crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief
priests and the elders of the people. Now the betrayer had given them
a sign, saying: `The one I shall kiss is the man; seize him!' And he
came up to Jesus at once, and said: `Hail, Master!' And he kissed
him" (Matthew 26:47--49).

24. Before his death, Buddha said to his disciple: "Ananda, when I
am gone, you must not think there is no Buddha; the discourses I have
delivered, and the precepts I have enjoined, must be my successors,
or representatives, and be to you as Buddha." (Hardy, Eastern
Monachism (London, 1860), p. 230.)
* Before his "ascension," Jesus said to his disciples: "Go,
therefore, and make disciples of all nations, teaching them to
observe all that I have commanded you; and, lo, I am with you always,
to the close of the age" (Matthew 28:19--20).

25. When Buddha died: "The coverings of [his] body unrolled
themselves, and the lid of his coffin was opened by supernatural
powers." (De Bunsen, p. 49.)
* When Jesus died: "And behold, there was a great earthquake; for
an angel of the L--rd descended from heaven and came and rolled back
the stone, and sat upon it" (Matthew 28:2).

26. "In the year 217 B.C. Buddhist missionaries were imprisoned for
preaching; but an angel, genie or spirit came and opened the prison
door, and liberated them." (Thomas Thornton, A History of China from
the Earliest Records to the Treaty with Great Britain in 1842
(London, 1844), vol. 1, p. 341.)
* "They arrested the apostles and put them in the common prison.
But at night an angel of the L--rd opened the prison doors and
brought them out" (Acts 5:18--19).

27. Both men's disciples are said to have been miracle workers.
(Maria L. Child, The Progress of Religious Ideas Through Successive
Ages (New York, 1855)vol. 1, p. 229, Acts 3:6--8.)

I will say that the name given to the "devil" by Buddha would have been Mara (मार) but the basic concept is the same more or less. In fact depending on the inflection when the word is said or written it can mean around 16 different things but all have more or less the same negative concept such as hindrance, killing, destroying, evil one etc.

The root of the word is "Ma" which is also the root for the Sanskrit word "Maya" (माया) which more or less means illusion.
You can see the similarity's in the Sanskrit I have included.
 
Great Post Stonehart, its obvious to those who actually study this stuff rather than be spoon fed a cherry picked selection, that the Myth is just that.

Imo its the reason the church didnt want the bible translated from latin

The Roman Catholic Church taught that the common man could not understand the Bible, and that the only ones who could understand and interpret the Bible were the priests, bishops and the Pope. To the average man, the Bible was a CLOSED BOOK and he had no access to it. As a result, most of the people were totally IGNORANT of what the Bible really taught. In 1229 A.D. the Church Council of Toulouse actually forbade the use of the Bible to laymen (the mass of common people; those who were not priests or bishops). Thus for centuries the Roman Catholic church did not want to put the Bible into the hands of the common people

Tyndale was able to take advantage of a new technology known as the printing press, an advantage Wycliffe never had. His Bible was printed in Germany in two sizes--a large print Bible and a small print Bible. Tyndale thought that if the Catholic bishops found the large ones, he might still be able to hide the smaller ones. These Bibles were "smuggled" into England--in barrels all covered with cloth and articles for sale, in bales that looked like cloth, in sacks of flour, in every way that could be found to hide them. Large numbers these Bibles reached England, but soon the Catholic bishops found out that they were being sold. Every seaport was carefully watched, and many packages of Bibles were found by the officers and burned. However, they could not find them all and they could not burn them all, and some of these Bibles would get to the people who really wanted to read them.
Finally the Catholic bishop of London decided he would buy all the copies that were printed, through a merchant in Germany. Then there would be no more Bibles to come across the water. What he failed to realize was that the merchant was a friend of Tyndale. This friend realized that this was a way to help Tyndale. At that time Tyndale's greatest need was money so that he could pay his printers for the work they had done and also start a new printing of the Bibles. The Catholic bishop paid a very good price for the Bibles so he could burn them all. The Catholic bishop thought that when he burned all these Bibles, there would never be another English Bible.

The church didnt want the common man to have access to the texts, it wanted to dole out cherry picked sections that affirmed its agenda.

As a result, most of the people were totally IGNORANT of what the Bible really taught........

Now we can see it for what it is, can compare it to previous texts like the one Stonehart cites.

And its exposed as the fraud that its always been
 
If you know much about Buddhism you may have come across this if you wished to study the basic doctrine.

अनात्मन् which means anatman or not self (anatta in Pali)... this is where the basic ideas behind the Buddhas teachings come into play and shows the main difference between it and Christianity.
anatman or the not self doctrine states that the self is simply a construct of experience and socialization and as such reincarnation of the Atman आत्मन् is not possible.

The wiki on this subject is not to bad as a basic overview of the subject but it could be vastly more in depth IMO

Taken to its logical sense in Buddhist philosophy even gods are no more than constructs and will die in time
 
Mike; I do believe Kim was being a gentleman not a sexist with his apologetic concerns...old school men don't speak in lude and derrogatory fashion in front of a lady...

To address the rest of this topic, I am bowing out. It is clear that there are no open minds at work in all this bashing. My insight into finding the good in Jesus or any other prophets teachings are useless here to say the least. (I even changed my avatar hoping to lighten the mood :/ )
Tyder & Trained; I hope to speak on similar topics with you in the future. Perhaps then some of the questions and comments can go with real dialogue rather than anger and scorn.

No Mike, I am not disputing your points, nor am I disputing Kim's. You both have good points. But no plans to meet in the middle. I for one try to find good in all things, I strive to get along best I can even IF I don't agree with other's viewpoints. I do not understand Mike's anger towards this , unless he is new to the realizations of being lied to . I too have went through this anger. At one point I actually considered that Jesus may be the devil in disguise. I still do not agree with worshipping any man, and certainly have my own "issues" with Christianity as a whole. I can see that Kim is a believer in what he speaks of as is Mike, and I respect that. However, this is a bit much for me so I bid you fellas good day .
I hope you find your peace Mike. I can understand your disdain but you needn't make it so personal that you can't see the forest for the trees my friend.
 
Im often asked why ?
Why do you have such a passion for this subject ?

The answer is this

For the first time in a long stretch of history I and others like me are free to say it like we see it.
It wasnt that long ago people like kim would have been part of a howling mob that put people like me to death for heresy.
Death by fire at the stake, by hanging, by ducking (drowning) by stoning, or just plain death by torture.
Galileo was put under house arrest for daring to have an opinion contrary to people like kim's.
Oh we can say it was the "church", but its power came from the individual, people like kim.

He gleefully uses words like rage and impotence, but the truth is i feel no rage, and my freedom to say what many in history couldn't for fear of execution is hardly that of impotence.
Rather i feel a sense of calm empowerment , an ability to tell it like it is.
To speak up on behalf of all those who were executed by this cult, for seeing the truth and saying they did.

Only a few centuries ago people like kim would have been leering at me with the same malevolent glee he shows us here, as i burned on the stake for heresy.

But this is the 21st century, we are free to expose this sham, free to cut and paste and compare and criticise.

I exercise my right, my freedom to call this sham out, because if i didnt..... i wouldnt deserve the priviledge to do so

This freedom, my freedom has been paid for in blood and suffering at the hands of people like kim.
I'm proud to carry the flag for them
 
Mike; I do believe Kim was being a gentleman not a sexist with his apologetic concerns...old school men don't speak in lude and derrogatory fashion in front of a lady...

To address the rest of this topic, I am bowing out. It is clear that there are no open minds at work in all this bashing. My insight into finding the good in Jesus or any other prophets teachings are useless here to say the least. (I even changed my avatar hoping to lighten the mood :/ )
Tyder & Trained; I hope to speak on similar topics with you in the future. Perhaps then some of the questions and comments can go with real dialogue rather than anger and scorn.

No Mike, I am not disputing your points, nor am I disputing Kim's. You both have good points. But no plans to meet in the middle. I for one try to find good in all things, I strive to get along best I can even IF I don't agree with other's viewpoints. I do not understand Mike's anger towards this , unless he is new to the realizations of being lied to . I too have went through this anger. At one point I actually considered that Jesus may be the devil in disguise. I still do not agree with worshipping any man, and certainly have my own "issues" with Christianity as a whole. I can see that Kim is a believer in what he speaks of as is Mike, and I respect that. However, this is a bit much for me so I bid you fellas good day .
I hope you find your peace Mike. I can understand your disdain but you needn't make it so personal that you can't see the forest for the trees my friend.

I remember the "burning times"
I dont forgive and i dont forget.................
 
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