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i am still trying to do garden stuff but had to let you know how wrong you are. thinking that the globe is warming by looking back 150 years is absurd at best. AGW is not as you admit a "belief" system.
Your concerns for CO2 are unnecessary and unfounded.
The hole in the ozone is as normal as the crack in my ass.
back later, more tomatoes to plant.

You just say he's wrong and present no real reason. After you're done planting tomatoes, please elaborate, okay?

---------- Post added at 03:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 PM ----------

i am still trying to do garden stuff but had to let you know how wrong you are. thinking that the globe is warming by looking back 150 years is absurd at best. AGW is not as you admit a "belief" system.
Your concerns for CO2 are unnecessary and unfounded.
The hole in the ozone is as normal as the crack in my ass.
back later, more tomatoes to plant.

---------- Post added at 07:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 PM ----------



can you find one that supports what you are saying? one that has not been thoroughly debunked?

I did. Please look at the links I posted earlier in the thread. You even said that you would watch it later, although you did indicate your bias in stating that you can say it's wrong without even looking.
 
Angel, you're wasting your time. Pixel doesn't give a crap about any data that doesn't come curtosey of Alex Jones or with a big, fat "approved by Exxon" stamp on it. Rest assured, if you ever even whisper the words "global warming" on this board, he'll show up to piss down your throat, offer NO evidence of worth to support his claims and then laugh about it.

Just let it go and take comfort in the fact that real scientists are doing real science in this area of study.
 
Angel, you're wasting your time. Pixel doesn't give a crap about any data that doesn't come curtosey of Alex Jones or with a big, fat "approved by Exxon" stamp on it. Rest assured, if you ever even whisper the words "global warming" on this board, he'll show up to piss down your throat, offer NO evidence of worth to support his claims and then laugh about it.

Just let it go and take comfort in the fact that real scientists are doing real science in this area of study.

CapnG could not be more wrong. I disagree with lots of what Alex Jones says. Whisper "global warming" and yes you better clarify normal planetary type warming or AGW, and no, contrary to what CapnG dreams of, no golden showers from me. CapnG it is the "warmists" and their ilk who indeed have a burden of proof they need to provide in order to even proceed with this debate. I will watch the videos that are posted above later this evening.
 
I disagree with lots of what Alex Jones says.

Remember that many of these talk show hosts are strictly entertainers. They take whatever political posture will help them earn a living. That goes for Limbaugh, Savage, Hannity, Beck and even their left-wing counterparts. Exaggerate, lie, scream, yell, make everyone afraid of everything, and laugh all the way to the bank.
 
Remember that many of these talk show hosts are strictly entertainers. They take whatever political posture will help them earn a living. That goes for Limbaugh, Savage, Hannity, Beck and even their left-wing counterparts. Exaggerate, lie, scream, yell, make everyone afraid of everything, and laugh all the way to the bank.

And do not forget Kimball.
 
And do not forget Kimball.

I hope you left out the smiley! Paul isn't making a living from being on The Paracast. He appears on the show to honestly present his point of view, whether you agree with it or not. If you think otherwise, you are going to have to do some "splainin" as far as I'm concerned. Besides, Paul is my friend and I resent the implication.
 
Hey i consider everyone here a friend, even Paul. I do enjoy him for the most part as a host.... But check it out, he has shown political posturing here, is obviously into making money altho is apparently against the current form of capitalism. I think he has done a great body of work and should be recognized for it.
He is more than welcome to have his marxist leaning views here but as a moderator on 2 forums myself, I find it best to be one or the other, member with a view point OR a mod, anything else and you are asking for problems. I think we have had a good example of that already.
 
CapnG could not be more wrong. I disagree with lots of what Alex Jones says.

And yet you never miss an opportunity to bring him up... funny, that.

Also your need to label others as "warmists" is cute. What was Gallileo, a "roundist"?

As for me, as I have said numerous times, I'm on the side of science. Actual, provable science. And I'm perfectly fine with whatever that science ultimately concludes because truth is more important than dogma.
 
And yet you never miss an opportunity to bring him up... funny, that.

Also your need to label others as "warmists" is cute. What was Gallileo, a "roundist"?

As for me, as I have said numerous times, I'm on the side of science. Actual, provable science. And I'm perfectly fine with whatever that science ultimately concludes because truth is more important than dogma.

I do not bring him up every chance I get. I have brought him or some of his views up on several occasions... yes. So?

If you are on the side of science then you also should be able to point us to THEE "settled science" "the debate is over" link. "Warmist" is a term for those in support of the CAGW scam. You are in favor of provable science? Prove something then... prove CAGW. You can't. Thus... you only believe... and science is not based on a belief system nor is it done by consensus.
 
If you are on the side of science then you also should be able to point us to THEE "settled science" "the debate is over" link. "Warmist" is a term for those in support of the CAGW scam. You are in favor of provable science? Prove something then... prove CAGW. You can't. Thus... you only believe... and science is not based on a belief system nor is it done by consensus.

I can't believe I'm wasting my time with this... Of course science is done by consensus, it's a little something called "repeatability", it's the fundamental cornerstone of all scientific research. When 99% of experiments give the same result and 1% doesn't then it's as proven as it needs to be until a better experiment is devised. That's a consensus and that's science.

As for proof, again I'm not wasting my time here on this. The scientific support exists everywhere, and I am not your butler. Although I might add on the subject of proof that I am not myself a meterologist or climatologist or geologist or any kind of authority on earth sciences. Are you? Because if you expect any of us to take your claims at face value, you goddamned better be.

It's funny you bring up belief again. Of the two of us you're the one who seems to have a more religious viewpoint of this issue, complete with a dogma, prophets (like AJ), a false religion, even an antichrist (Al Gore). I on the other hand do not "believe", I accept based on weight of evidence until better evidence is presented. As of right now, that evidence supports human impact (albeit to an admittedly undetermined degree).

So you don't accept that evidence, fine but you don't get to keep making these claims of a "scam" and a "fraud" without supporting proof. It's your claims that are the extraordinary ones (by the simple definition of the term), so the burden of proof lies on YOU.

So put up or shut up. Post a link to a web page, an archive, a video, ANYTHING that supports your case but do SOMETHING because otherwise you're just trolling.
 
Angel, you're wasting your time. Pixel doesn't give a crap about any data that doesn't come curtosey of Alex Jones or with a big, fat "approved by Exxon" stamp on it. Rest assured, if you ever even whisper the words "global warming" on this board, he'll show up to piss down your throat, offer NO evidence of worth to support his claims and then laugh about it.

Just let it go and take comfort in the fact that real scientists are doing real science in this area of study.

Did Alex Jones create the carbon futures market? Did he propose legislation for cap and trade that will be just another tax WE have to pay? Did he come up with the concept of cabron taxation? How about carbon credits?

My point is....

What does Alex Jones have to do with any of this and why do you keep bringing him up? People like to do this all the time when they can't address real concerns like what the actual solutions and results of the theory of "man-made GW/CC" is even when it is very obvious.

Strawmen are frustrating.
 
What does Alex Jones have to do with any of this and why do you keep bringing him up? People like to do this all the time when they can't address real concerns like what the actual solutions and results of the theory of "man-made GW/CC" is even when it is very obvious.

I did not bring him up, I decried it. See for yourself page 1, post 3 and post 6. MY point is the man isn't an authority... on anything, really and we'd all be better off by mentioning him less.

And you well know how very much against carbon credits I am, Cotton.
 
Angel, you're wasting your time. Pixel doesn't give a crap about any data that doesn't come curtosey of Alex Jones

You didn't bring him up?

It's great you are against carbon credits. You don't find the fact that they are one of the primary solutions to this proposed problem? I'm sorry, that is not my opinion either that they are one of the many concepts proposed to fix the problem. It's just fact. Hell, Angel doesn't even know what I am talking about with any of this stuff, but you do. How can you feel comfortable promoting these concepts when you are aware of what these concepts are being used for? You cannot turn a blind eye to this.

Are you/were you aware of the carbon trading futures market? Do you know how much money is to be made off this new form of derivative scam?
 
I can't believe I'm wasting my time with this... Of course science is done by consensus, it's a little something called "repeatability", it's the fundamental cornerstone of all scientific research. When 99% of experiments give the same result and 1% doesn't then it's as proven as it needs to be until a better experiment is devised. That's a consensus and that's science.

As for proof, again I'm not wasting my time here on this. The scientific support exists everywhere, and I am not your butler. Although I might add on the subject of proof that I am not myself a meterologist or climatologist or geologist or any kind of authority on earth sciences. Are you? Because if you expect any of us to take your claims at face value, you goddamned better be.

It's funny you bring up belief again. Of the two of us you're the one who seems to have a more religious viewpoint of this issue, complete with a dogma, prophets (like AJ), a false religion, even an antichrist (Al Gore). I on the other hand do not "believe", I accept based on weight of evidence until better evidence is presented. As of right now, that evidence supports human impact (albeit to an admittedly undetermined degree).

So you don't accept that evidence, fine but you don't get to keep making these claims of a "scam" and a "fraud" without supporting proof. It's your claims that are the extraordinary ones (by the simple definition of the term), so the burden of proof lies on YOU.

So put up or shut up. Post a link to a web page, an archive, a video, ANYTHING that supports your case but do SOMETHING because otherwise you're just trolling.

By profession I have been a cheese maker, landscaper, operating engineer, graphic designer and photographer. But I have studied earth sciences, astronomy, geology, archeology, anthropology, climatology and a host of other "ologies" for the better part of 40 years... so what... i don't expect nor want any one to accept anything I say. I don't learn well that way and I don't expect the intelligent people on this forum to either. But I will not sit here and listen to pure rubbish and ignorant ramblings without putting my opinion in the mix. Look up anything I post and come to your own conclusions... and when you do, doubt them and try to disprove them and when you arrive at what you believe to be true.... then do it again.... then sit back and digest it for awhile until new evidence comes forward that may change your views again. On the matter of "climate change/CAGW" that is what I have done. I was first interested in climate change when in 1972 I was told by top scientists and our Nations science czar John Holdren that we were all going to die from global cooling and the next ice age so we better pay some taxes...

The Scam and Fraud has been exposed, where have you been? All the proof you need about my opinion has been posted here already on other threads. But no one here has yet posted the settled science/debate is over proof of CAGW. (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming)
 
You didn't bring him up?

It's great you are against carbon credits. You don't find the fact that they are one of the primary solutions to this proposed problem? I'm sorry, that is not my opinion either that they are one of the many concepts proposed to fix the problem. It's just fact. Hell, Angel doesn't even know what I am talking about with any of this stuff, but you do. How can you feel comfortable promoting these concepts when you are aware of what these concepts are being used for? You cannot turn a blind eye to this.

Are you/were you aware of the carbon trading futures market? Do you know how much money is to be made off this new form of derivative scam?

You weren't very clear when I said I didn't know what you were talking about. I know exactly what carbon credits are, and I'm not for them. You should pollute all you want and then just pay some company to maybe plant a tree on your behalf - that's silly. The only thing I have taken issue with is the denial of some people that the scientific consensus is wrong. i.e. that humans have caused the planet to warm up. I'm not buying into the fact that there are people that think it will bring about the end of the world, that's a little alarmist.
 
Are you/were you aware of the carbon trading futures market? Do you know how much money is to be made off this new form of derivative scam?

Vaguely aware and I wouldn't know the precise dollar amount no, I imagine it's quite high though. But what of it? There are always those who will manipulate a crisis/percieved crisis to line their own pockets (espescially in the realms of politics and finance which, let's face it, is basically the same thing nowadays). I'm not blind to it, I just see it as the predictable reaction to these circumstances not the sinister, ultimate end for which this "scam" is the precursor.

What I don't understand is why the not-at-all surprising introduction of something like carbon trading is somehow proof of a scam in one direction, yet the demonstrable, repeated employment of scientific "mercenaries" (for lack of a better term) by big energy concerns to either counter legitimate climate research claims or to create contrarian data (often out of whole cloth) is somehow dismissed or ignored.

I'll ask it again, what's more reasonable? That a gigantic international conspiracy exists to create a massive new taxation structure (something governments have never really needed an excuse to do at any time before hand) or that multi-billion dollar energy concerns, fearing a loss of market share in a wave of demand for change, would spend a pittance to create seemingly authentic data in an attempt to blunt the catalyst driving that change and thus protect their own profits?

Then again, as I think about it right now, given what I just said about politicians and business it could very well be both in which case man, are we screwed...
 
i am still trying to do garden stuff but had to let you know how wrong you are. thinking that the globe is warming by looking back 150 years is absurd at best. AGW is not as you admit a "belief" system.
Your concerns for CO2 are unnecessary and unfounded.
The hole in the ozone is as normal as the crack in my ass.
back later, more tomatoes to plant.


Pixelsmith, do you actually read what you reply to? If you had, you'd see that what I have stated in this thread is that we have NO BASELINE to go by...You'd see that I was asking a question about CO2, and you'd see that I asked precisely that about the Ozone hole...but I'll let you go on thinking what you're thinking, and talking about your ass, because it's obvious that you have all the answers and the rest of us are just loons.
 
http://www.americasclimatechoices.org/study-video.shtml

A video that people should watch, and materials that people should read, from the National Research Council, the operating arm of the National Academy of Sciences and National Academy of Engineering.

The conclusion of the NRC?

"A strong, credible body of scientific evidence shows that climate change is occurring, is caused largely by human activities, and poses significant risks for a broad range of human and natural systems."

The "noisy negativists" are a very small minority, latched on to by right-wing idealogues, media-hungry rabble rousers like Alex Jones, conspiracists, and Big Oil and their allies.

Some people are afraid of the truth, and refuse to confront the evidence, because they don't like change. That's understandable, because change threatens their certain view of the world. "Pixelsmith" seems to be a good example of this type. Unfortunately, they are fodder for demagogues who would manipulate them for their own purposes (profit, in most cases). Fortunately, our leaders, at various speeds and to various degrees, have more common sense, have accepted the scientific consensus, and are taking action. The debate is no longer about whether climate change is caused by human activity, except on the fringes and anonymous message boards like this. The debate is now focused on what we're going to do about it.

---------- Post added at 11:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 AM ----------

http://arstechnica.com/
<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> var pbanner_start = new Date(); try { var pbanner = cnp.ad.create(cnp.ad.refreshable, false); pbanner.addParameter({'dcopt':'ist'}); pbanner.addParameterString('kw=when-science-clashes-with-belief-make-science-impotent;kw=05;kw=2010;kw=news;kw=science;'); pbanner.addParameter({'sz': '728x90' }); } catch(e) {}</SCRIPT>http://arstechnica.com/science/news...clashes-with-belief-make-science-impotent.ars
When science clashes with beliefs



By John Timmer

test_tube_science_ars.jpg

<!--body-->
It's hardly a secret that large segments of the population choose not to accept scientific data because it conflicts with their predefined beliefs: economic, political, religious, or otherwise. But many studies have indicated that these same people aren't happy with viewing themselves as anti-science, which can create a state of cognitive dissonance. That has left psychologists pondering the methods that these people use to rationalize the conflict.

A study published in the Journal of Applied Social Psychology takes a look at one of these methods, which the authors term "scientific impotence"—the decision that science can't actually address the issue at hand properly. It finds evidence that not only supports the scientific impotence model, but suggests that it could be contagious. Once a subject has decided that a given topic is off limits to science, they tend to start applying the same logic to other issues.

<!--page 1-->The paper is worth reading for the introduction alone, which sets up the problem of science acceptance within the context of persuasive arguments and belief systems. There's a significant amount of literature that considers how people resist persuasion, and at least seven different strategies have been identified. But the author, Towson University's Geoffrey Munro, attempts to carve out an exceptional place for scientific information. "Belief-contradicting scientific information may elicit different resistance processes than belief-contradicting information of a nonscientific nature," he argues. "Source derogation, for example, might be less effective in response to scientific than nonscientific information."

It might be, but many of the arguments against mainstream science make it clear that it's not. Evolution doubters present science as an atheistic conspiracy; antivaccination advocates consider the biomedical research community to be hopelessly corrupted by the pharmaceutical industry; and climatologists have been accused of being in it to foster everything from their own funding to global governance. Clearly, source derogation is very much on the table.

If that method of handling things is dismissed a bit abruptly, Munro makes a better case for not addressing an alternative way of dismissing scientific data: identifying perceived methodological flaws. This definitely occurs, as indicated by references cited in the paper, but it's not an option for everyone. Many people reject scientific information without having access to the methodology that produced it or the ability to understand it if they did. So, although selective attacks on methodology take place, they're not necessarily available to everyone who chooses to dismiss scientific findings.

What Munro examines here is an alternative approach: the decision that, regardless of the methodological details, a topic is just not accessible to scientific analysis. This approach also has a prominent place among those who disregard scientific information, ranging from the very narrow—people who argue that the climate is simply too complicated to understand—to the extremely broad, such as those among the creationist movement who argue that the only valid science takes place in the controlled environs of a lab, and thereby dismiss not only evolution, but geology, astronomy, etc.

To get at this issue, Munro polled a set of college students about their feelings about homosexuality, and then exposed them to a series of generic scientific abstracts that presented evidence that it was or wasn't a mental illness (a control group read the same abstracts with nonsense terms in place of sexual identities). By chance, these either challenged or confirmed the students' preconceptions. The subjects were then given the chance to state whether they accepted the information in the abstracts and, if not, why not.

Regardless of whether the information presented confirmed or contradicted the students' existing beliefs, all of them came away from the reading with their beliefs strengthened. As expected, a number of the subjects that had their beliefs challenged chose to indicate that the subject was beyond the ability of science to properly examine. This group then showed a weak tendency to extend that same logic to other areas, like scientific data on astrology and herbal remedies.
A second group went through the same initial abstract-reading process, but were then given an issue to research (the effectiveness of the death penalty as a deterrent to violent crime), and offered various sources of information on the issue. The group that chose to discount scientific information on the human behavior issue were more likely than their peers to evaluate nonscientific material when it came to making a decision about the death penalty.

There are a number of issues with the study: the sample size was small, college students are probably atypical in that they're constantly being exposed to challenging information, and there was no attempt to determine the students' scientific literacy on the topic going in. That last point seems rather significant, since the students were recruited from a psychology course, and majors in that field might be expected to already know the state of the field. So, this study would seem to fall in the large category of those that are intriguing, but in need of a more rigorous replication.

It's probably worth making the effort, however, because it might explain why doubts about mainstream science seem to travel in packs. For example, the Discovery Institute, famed for hosting a petition that questions our understanding of evolution, has recently taken up climate change as an additional issue (they don't believe the scientific community on that topic, either). The Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine is best known for hosting a petition that questions the scientific consensus on climate change, but the people who run it also promote creationism and question the link between HIV and AIDS.

Within the scientific community, there has been substantial debate over how best to deal with the public's refusal to accept basic scientific findings, with different camps arguing for increasing scientific literacy, challenging beliefs, or emphasizing the compatibility between belief and science. Confirming that the scientific impotence phenomenon is real might induce the scientific community to consider whether any of the public engagement models they're currently arguing over would actually be effective at addressing this issue.
 
http://www.americasclimatechoices.org/study-video.shtml

A video that people should watch, and materials that people should read, from the National Research Council, the operating arm of the National Academy of Sciences and National Academy of Engineering.

The conclusion of the NRC?

"A strong, credible body of scientific evidence shows that climate change is occurring, is caused largely by human activities, and poses significant risks for a broad range of human and natural systems."

The "noisy negativists" are a very small minority, latched on to by right-wing idealogues, media-hungry rabble rousers like Alex Jones, conspiracists, and Big Oil and their allies.

Some people are afraid of the truth, and refuse to confront the evidence, because they don't like change. That's understandable, because change threatens their certain view of the world. "Pixelsmith" seems to be a good example of this type. Unfortunately, they are fodder for demagogues who would manipulate them for their own purposes (profit, in most cases). Fortunately, our leaders, at various speeds and to various degrees, have more common sense, have accepted the scientific consensus, and are taking action. The debate is no longer about whether climate change is caused by human activity, except on the fringes and anonymous message boards like this. The debate is now focused on what we're going to do about it.

---------- Post added at 11:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 AM ----------

http://arstechnica.com/
<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> var pbanner_start = new Date(); try { var pbanner = cnp.ad.create(cnp.ad.refreshable, false); pbanner.addParameter({'dcopt':'ist'}); pbanner.addParameterString('kw=when-science-clashes-with-belief-make-science-impotent;kw=05;kw=2010;kw=news;kw=science;'); pbanner.addParameter({'sz': '728x90' }); } catch(e) {}</SCRIPT>http://arstechnica.com/science/news...clashes-with-belief-make-science-impotent.ars
When science clashes with beliefs



By John Timmer

test_tube_science_ars.jpg

<!--body-->
It's hardly a secret that large segments of the population choose not to accept scientific data because it conflicts with their predefined beliefs: economic, political, religious, or otherwise. But many studies have indicated that these same people aren't happy with viewing themselves as anti-science, which can create a state of cognitive dissonance. That has left psychologists pondering the methods that these people use to rationalize the conflict.

A study published in the Journal of Applied Social Psychology takes a look at one of these methods, which the authors term "scientific impotence"—the decision that science can't actually address the issue at hand properly. It finds evidence that not only supports the scientific impotence model, but suggests that it could be contagious. Once a subject has decided that a given topic is off limits to science, they tend to start applying the same logic to other issues.

<!--page 1-->The paper is worth reading for the introduction alone, which sets up the problem of science acceptance within the context of persuasive arguments and belief systems. There's a significant amount of literature that considers how people resist persuasion, and at least seven different strategies have been identified. But the author, Towson University's Geoffrey Munro, attempts to carve out an exceptional place for scientific information. "Belief-contradicting scientific information may elicit different resistance processes than belief-contradicting information of a nonscientific nature," he argues. "Source derogation, for example, might be less effective in response to scientific than nonscientific information."

It might be, but many of the arguments against mainstream science make it clear that it's not. Evolution doubters present science as an atheistic conspiracy; antivaccination advocates consider the biomedical research community to be hopelessly corrupted by the pharmaceutical industry; and climatologists have been accused of being in it to foster everything from their own funding to global governance. Clearly, source derogation is very much on the table.

If that method of handling things is dismissed a bit abruptly, Munro makes a better case for not addressing an alternative way of dismissing scientific data: identifying perceived methodological flaws. This definitely occurs, as indicated by references cited in the paper, but it's not an option for everyone. Many people reject scientific information without having access to the methodology that produced it or the ability to understand it if they did. So, although selective attacks on methodology take place, they're not necessarily available to everyone who chooses to dismiss scientific findings.

What Munro examines here is an alternative approach: the decision that, regardless of the methodological details, a topic is just not accessible to scientific analysis. This approach also has a prominent place among those who disregard scientific information, ranging from the very narrow—people who argue that the climate is simply too complicated to understand—to the extremely broad, such as those among the creationist movement who argue that the only valid science takes place in the controlled environs of a lab, and thereby dismiss not only evolution, but geology, astronomy, etc.

To get at this issue, Munro polled a set of college students about their feelings about homosexuality, and then exposed them to a series of generic scientific abstracts that presented evidence that it was or wasn't a mental illness (a control group read the same abstracts with nonsense terms in place of sexual identities). By chance, these either challenged or confirmed the students' preconceptions. The subjects were then given the chance to state whether they accepted the information in the abstracts and, if not, why not.

Regardless of whether the information presented confirmed or contradicted the students' existing beliefs, all of them came away from the reading with their beliefs strengthened. As expected, a number of the subjects that had their beliefs challenged chose to indicate that the subject was beyond the ability of science to properly examine. This group then showed a weak tendency to extend that same logic to other areas, like scientific data on astrology and herbal remedies.
A second group went through the same initial abstract-reading process, but were then given an issue to research (the effectiveness of the death penalty as a deterrent to violent crime), and offered various sources of information on the issue. The group that chose to discount scientific information on the human behavior issue were more likely than their peers to evaluate nonscientific material when it came to making a decision about the death penalty.

There are a number of issues with the study: the sample size was small, college students are probably atypical in that they're constantly being exposed to challenging information, and there was no attempt to determine the students' scientific literacy on the topic going in. That last point seems rather significant, since the students were recruited from a psychology course, and majors in that field might be expected to already know the state of the field. So, this study would seem to fall in the large category of those that are intriguing, but in need of a more rigorous replication.

It's probably worth making the effort, however, because it might explain why doubts about mainstream science seem to travel in packs. For example, the Discovery Institute, famed for hosting a petition that questions our understanding of evolution, has recently taken up climate change as an additional issue (they don't believe the scientific community on that topic, either). The Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine is best known for hosting a petition that questions the scientific consensus on climate change, but the people who run it also promote creationism and question the link between HIV and AIDS.

Within the scientific community, there has been substantial debate over how best to deal with the public's refusal to accept basic scientific findings, with different camps arguing for increasing scientific literacy, challenging beliefs, or emphasizing the compatibility between belief and science. Confirming that the scientific impotence phenomenon is real might induce the scientific community to consider whether any of the public engagement models they're currently arguing over would actually be effective at addressing this issue.

All I see are opinions in your postings Paul. The "consensus" had to have beeen made up from actual observed science, and followed the scientific method in order to advise the powers that be to do something about this CAGW... right? Where is this smoking gun document full of scientific conclusions that dictates the the need for global governance or even the controlling of CO2 emissions?! Why is this preponderance of evidence so difficult for alarmists to produce?

---------- Post added at 12:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 PM ----------

Greenpeace lady reminds me of a few people here. ;)

 
All I see are opinions in your postings Paul. The "consensus" had to have beeen made up from actual observed science, and followed the scientific method in order to advise the powers that be to do something about this CAGW... right? Where is this smoking gun document full of scientific conclusions that dictates the the need for global governance or even the controlling of CO2 emissions?! Why is this preponderance of evidence so difficult for alarmists to produce?

You're being slapped in the face with tons of evidence and you're refusing to look at it. You have yet to provide any valid argument that there's NO warming of the Earth.
I can understand people like Cotton that feel as though people are profiting from global warming fears, that's a valid concern. But to completely deny that there is any heating of the Earth going on is just hiding your head in the sand.
 
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