They don't want us to know

[mike]

Bible, the perfect word of god..... or the disjointed writings of men

If the Bible was divinely inspired, then why would it have so many really obvious contradictions?

Theological doctrines:

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28
14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
Deut 12:30,31
19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
James 1:13
20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
Gen 6:5,7
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
Gen 8:21
22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
Rom 1:20
God's attributes cannot be discovered
Job 11:7/ Is 40:28
23. There is but one God
Deut 6:4
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7

Biblical Contradictions

And thats just the tip of the iceberg, The logical explanation to all these contradictions is the bible is just the writings of men, not the perfect word of god.

 

[pixelsmith]

About 1970 in boy scout camp we made a kid named John think he talked to god. This is actually a very long story so I will drastically shorten it for the purpose of making a point. Some of us found a stump covered in "fox fire" and one of the older boys hid out near the stump with a megaphone. we drank a bunch of moonshine (from my neighbor), gathered some of the drunkest kids and took off on a hike into the night... we led this kid close to the stump and then we all stopped as if we were frozen in fear... the older kid started talking in a booming god like voice thru the megaphone and we all scattered... except for john... he stood there with his jaw hanging down as if he was talking to god himself. He was captivated by the words he heard and started rubbing the fox fire stump and pieces would break off, he held them in his hand gently as if god himself gave it to him. the older boy almost started laughing so he slipped away and went back to camp. we tried and tried to get John to come with us back to the camp but he wanted to stay and talk to god IF he came back. long story made short, John to this day swears he talked with god... but he was talking to a drunk kid named Al who was 18 years old.

Side story to this event. Our troop leader and Al's dad found our moonshine and drank most of it. after leaving john in the woods with "god" we went and caused trouble at the girls camp across the river. The leader of the camping trip came to talk to our leader about our behavior and found our leaders drunk. Our boy scout troop was dismantled and that was the end of my boy scout career.

 

[dyingsun]

Think I said it before, but the only value of the bible (to me) really is a 'How-to: Live with each other in these dark ages' and it doesn't even do a good job at that. I respect people that trust in Christianity for the comfort it provides, and for the kindness to each other it proposes.

People poking and quoting that book.. nah, have your seven seals opened and eye-gouging at home.

 

[pixelsmith]

Actually I like chocolate milk, and since you mention it, now I want some, but I'm trying to keep my consumption of sugar low, so it's not quite as good for me as I might want it to be. But it's tempting me from the cooler down the road as I write this where they keep the temperature perfect, just a few degrees above freezing. It is sooo good. Will I be alble to resist the temptation or yeild to the evil chocolate milk? No wiat! I thought we agreed chocalte milk was good? Now I'm thoroughly confused. It's not quite so easy as it first seemed to tell if chocolate milk really is good or not ... is it?

Take, drink, for it is better than the blood of christ.

 

[Randall]

You have to wonder why would the "Great Spirit", a god, or devious deceiving spirits would make the effort to appear to you in the forest like that? These things usually end with some assurance that the hearer is "chosen" and given a "message" to deliver to their compatriots. The message is invariably a variation of "Be nice to each other and don't make a mess where you eat." which just makes me wonder all the more why superior beings would find it necessary to state the obvious.

Perhaps there is more to Starise's claim that you need to be ready than is being given credit. I had been contemplating existence and the meaning of life like many young men do and had reached the conclusion that there really wasn't any inherent purpose or reason for living and that my contribution to the world would in the end be meaningless or worse, consisting largely of all the damage one more person's load on the ecosystem inflicts over the course of a lifetime. It seemed to me that logically the world could do with fewer humans and that to do my part I'd crawl off into a glacier and just disappear. I was quite happy with the decision and it was on this day that the incident happened. I literally said out loud in a voice to the sky, I don't know if there is a God but I'd just like to say hello because if you're there I'm coming to meet you!" And it was this moment of complete honest acceptance of self-sacrifice for the betterment of the world around me and a calling out to God ( or what I interpreted to have been God at the time ) that precipitated the event. All the sounds in the forest suddenly went silent and everything took on an aura like glow. It was almost as if time were suspended, and yet it couldn't have been because I was still aware and thinking and able to move, and that's when I heard the voice. It permeated everything and it was accompanied by the most intense feeling of pure love that I've ever experienced. It simply said, "Hello".

 

[Randall]

Take, drink, for it is better than the blood of christ.

Hilarious!

 

[pixelsmith]

so...thats it? HELLO... I think maybe you experienced some hypothermia related hallucination.

 

[Randall]

Think I said it before, but the only value of the bible really is a 'How-to: Live with each other in these dark ages' and it doesn't even do a good job at that. I respect people that trust in Christianity for the comfort it provides, and for the kindness to each other it proposes.

People poking and quoting that book.. nah, have your seven seals opened and eye-gouging at home.

I have Bible(s) on CD print and a couple of good reference books including Unger's Bible Dictionary. I look at the Bible as a type of mythology, part fact and part fiction and a lot of editorializing. It comes in handy during discussions where biblical mythology intersects ufology. There are descriptions of things that seem like technology way ahead of the time. Even if it was just imagined and not an actual description, it is still really interesting to contemplate such things. One author who has done a lot of that is William Bramley ( The Gods of Eden ).

 

[Randall]

so...thats it? HELLO... I think maybe you experienced some hypothermia related hallucination.

Yes the first word was simply, "Hello". This was first thing in the morning on a clear summer day and I was feeling just fine. It was completely unexpected. I wasn't a church goer or religious. I'd attended a few Sunday School classes as a child but that was all. I was only there to work and save money to buy a new guitar and pursue my ambitions as a rock musician.

 

[dyingsun]

I heard of Bramley and his book (high praises all around), what the whole religious issue really comes down to for me: Live and let live, if you pee on my rug I'll call the 'big' Lebowski. I'm cool with whatever one believes in, as long as said Person doesn't force it upon me.

Sorry for derailing, there sure are things to ponder about in the bible concerning 'unknown' beings and things, talking 'et' here. Same with Hinduism/Buddhism, I bet the Talmud and Koran have them in there as well.I find it highly interesting as well.

But what does it do for us these days ?

 

[pixelsmith]

Yes the first word was simply, "Hello". This was first thing in the morning on a clear summer day and I was feeling just fine. It was completely unexpected. I wasn't a church goer or religious. I'd attended a few Sunday School classes as a child but that was all. I was only there to work and save money to buy a new guitar and pursue my ambitions as a rock musician.

wait... i thought you were going to kill yourself... now you say you were feeling just fine...

 

[dyingsun]

Odd things seemed to happen even back then, while I like the folklore around it, I have no need for a Pantheon or 'One' right now, as comforting as believing might be. But as you said, I'm intrigued by the Lore as well.

Haha , odd turn this thread took.

 

[Randall]

I heard of Bramley and his book (high praises all around), what the whole religious issue really comes down to for me: Live and let live, if you pee on my rug I'll call the 'big' Lebowski. I'm cool with whatever one believes in, as long as said Person doesn't force it upon me.

Sorry for derailing, there sure are things to ponder about in the bible concerning 'unknown' beings and things, talking 'et' here. Same with Hinduism/Buddhism, I bet the Talmud and Koran have them in there as well.I find it highly interesting as well.

But what does it do for us these days ?

Mythology tells stories. Exactly how true they are isn't always as important as the truths they reveal about those who told them and of human nature. There are lessons to be learned if we look and contemplate and listen. Plus a lot of people are just interested in it because they are searching for answers to the same kinds of questions I had when I was younger. What is life all about? What's the point of my existence? For those people the various mythologies and teachings act as signposts along their path to a greater understanding. Unfortunately some people get stuck and fail to move on, assuming they know enough or afraid to leave the comfort of some group that has congregated along the way and settled into one paradigm. But that's not the fault of the mythology, it's the psychology of those who can't look beyond where they are now and risk change.

 

[dyingsun]

I can and do respect that, I would still call these people 'not enlightened'. Any Mythology is interesting to me, even imaginative ones, I just despise people forcing their believe- system upon others. I think we are on the same page here.

 

[pixelsmith]

Mythology tells stories. Exactly how true they are isn't always as important as the truths they reveal about those who told them and of human nature. There are lessons to be learned if we look and contemplate and listen. Plus a lot of people are just interested in it because they are searching for answers to the same kinds of questions I had when I was younger. What is life all about? What's the point of my existence? For those people the various mythologies and teachings act as signposts towalong their path to a greater understanding. Unfortunately some people get stuck and fail to move on, assuming they know enough or afraid to leave the comfort of some group that has congregated along the way and settled into one paradigm. But that's not the fault of the mythology, it's the psychology of those who can't look beyond where they are now and risk change.

I learned from life long involvement in religion that the bible was written, edited, translated many times by people with an agenda. The stories have been enhanced to the point of absurdity, contradiction and doubt. A better name for it would be 256 Shades of Grey.

 

[Randall]

wait... i thought you were going to kill yourself... now you say you were feeling just fine...

Right. I was physically healthy and had been contemplating my continued existence. The decision I came to was based on what I believed was the logical thing to do, not because I was depressed or in any sort of trouble. The encounter with this phenomenon is essentially what saved my life. I've discussed it with psychologists and theologians. I've asked if it is possible that my mind simply went into some kind of self-preservation mode and caused a spontaneous hallucination that manifested itself as God, but the general consensus is that such a thing just doesn't happen unless you're on some serious medication ( Chris probably knows more about that ). The point is, I'm not saying it was God. I'm saying the experience was real, and that had I been predisposed to believing in God and the Bible it would have solidified my preexisting beliefs beyond the point where anyone could convince me I was wrong. As it was, I was convinced for some time afterward that God was no myth, but because I was ( and still am ) of no particular faith, I had also asked the question, "What religion should I follow" and the answer to that set me on an entirely different path.

 

[Randall]

I can and do respect that, I would still call these people 'not enlightened'. Any Mythology is interesting to me, even imaginative ones, I just despise people forcing their believe- system upon others. I think we are on the same page here.

I agree with what you are saying in spirit, but as a person who has tried to follow The Good Raod, I've run into some people who are pretty nasty. I think I touched on this during the debate on the Big Brother Monitoring thread. So suddenly, we have to decide, should good people not have the right to force bad people not to do bad things? Or to quote Edmund Burke: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." It all gets murky pretty fast doesn't it?

 

[dyingsun]

It sure does. I have long since given up hope to 'change' someone , but I still think it comes rather naturally and probably with age or just life experience. I have become kinder over the years, still have my outbursts which I cherish, I know what you're getting at though. Let's keep the Lid on that can shut (at least I will). Got to go to bed, hope my english wasn't abysmal

 

[Randall]

It sure does. I have long since given up hope to 'change' someone , but I still think it comes rather naturally and probably with age or just life experience. I have become kinder over the years, still have my outbursts which I cherish, I know what you're getting at though. Let's keep the Lid on that can shut (at least I will). Got to go to bed, hope my english wasn't abysmal

Good exchange, but we are getting way off the thread's track. So to bring it all back, I wonder if as Bramley suggests, a lot of religious conflict is designed to keep us at each other's throats so we don't spend our time pointing fingers at them. If as the thread suggests, "They Don't Want Us To Know", then religion may be one more way of throwing us off track.

 

[trainedobserver]

About 1970 in boy scout camp ...

I think that is the best story I have ever read on the Paracast Forum.