UFOs and Nukes

[Robert Hastings]

All,

My Spring 2010 lecture schedule follows:

January 20--Salt Lake Community College, Salt Lake City, UT

January 21--Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID

February 9--East Tennessee State University, Johnson City, TN

February 18--University of Alaska/Anchorage

April 8--Metropolitan State College, Denver, CO

April 20--University of South Dakota, Vermillion, SD

April 28--University of North Carolina/Asheville

Check each school's website for location, starting time, etc.

--Robert Hastings
www.ufohastings.com

 

[Gene Steinberg]

No possibility for Phoenix or environs in your future?

 

[Robert Hastings]

Hi Gene,

I was at Arizona State University, in Tempe, last October 15th. Sorry you missed me.

Robert

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Hi Gene,

I was at Arizona State University, in Tempe, last October 15th. Sorry you missed me.

Robert

Oh wow! 20 minutes from here. You missed a great lunch.

 

[Robert Hastings]

"Recent" UFO Activity at Malmstrom AFB

Many of you have already read about the UFO activity at Malmstrom AFB's nuclear missile sites over the years. My research, based on declassified U.S. Air Force documents and the testimony of ex-USAF personnel, confirms that such incidents occurred as early as 1966 and as recently as 1996.

However, new information has recently come to light. In early November 2009, I visited Malmstrom and unexpectedly spoke with an active-duty Security Policeman (SP) who told me of a UFO incursion near the Oscar Flight Missile Alert Facility (the renamed Oscar Flight Launch Control Facility) that occurred "about two years ago." While this individual was an eyewitness to the object's fly-by, he did not know whether the missiles had been adversely impacted in any manner. Ordinarily, missile guards at a given flight would not be in the loop for such information.

Because the SP is still active-duty Air Force, I will not formally interview him until he leaves the service. This longstanding policy of mine is designed to minimize any potential impact on a source's military career, should that person's commander(s) learn that he/she has been talking to me.

The now well-known UFO incursion at Malmstrom's Oscar Flight, on March 24, 1967, resulted in most or all of the flight's ten Minuteman missiles malfunctioning simultaneously, according to former USAF Captain Robert Salas, who was one of the launch officers on alert that day. Moreover, a nearly-identical incident occurred at Malmstrom's Echo Flight a few days earlier, on March 16th, according to another former launch officer, now retired Col. Walter Figel. Both men were first interviewed by researcher Jim Klotz in the mid-1990s.

Details about these UFO-initiated missile shutdowns, and similar ones at other missile bases, may be found at my website, in the article "UFO Sightings at ICBM Sites and Nuclear Weapons Storage Areas."

--Robert Hastings
www.ufohastings.com

 

[Robert Hastings]

In an earlier post I mentioned an incident in Soviet Ukraine, on October 4, 1982, when a group of ICBMs suddenly activated--and were preparing to launch--just as a UFO hovered over their launch control facility.

Researcher Antonio Huneeus has now posted a detailed article on the case, based on depositions provided by several Soviet military personnel who were present for the event. It may be found at:

http://www.openminds.tv/soviet-nukes-and-ufos/

A similar incident occurred at Minot AFB, North Dakota, in the mid-1960s, according to former Minuteman missile launch officer David Schuur. My interview with Schuur is at:

http://www.theufochronicles.com/2008/07/launch-in-progress.html

--Robert Hastings
www.ufohastings.com

 

[111uminate]

Fascinating reading Mr. Hastings! Thanks for the links. One particular bit I found interesting from the Usovo testimony was:

Then a shining small ball separated from the left object and moved to the right one.” The lights continued their acrobatics for another 5 to 7 minutes, according to the Captain, who added that, “while moving the object changed its shape, the twinkling lights reformed from an ellipsis to a straight line.”

You can never have too many military witness reports so I'm always all for them (Especially ones with sketches!). The small shining ball that separated from one of the objects strongly reminds me of the 1976 Tehran, Iran case. Parviz Jafari (The pilot) reported something identical while in pursuit of an object; a small glowing ball seemingly left the object and would dart toward his craft and circle it. Interesting indeed ..

 

[Robert Hastings]

Regarding the Malmstrom AFB Echo Flight UFO incident of March 16, 1967--involving the full-flight, 10-missile shutdown that occurred just prior to UFOs being reported to the deputy missile commander on duty, now-retired Col. Walter Figel, by a maintenance team member and a security police team member--some highly relevant facts have been omitted by James Carlson in his recent posts on various websites.

To illustrate the problem, on another blog, http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread537468/pg10, Carlson wrote: "Walt Figel and my father were the only people in the room, and Figel has repeatedly stated that he had the impression the guys who said 'This UFO must have brought the missiles down' were joking around. In every single interview with him, he has said the same thing: 'I thought it was a joke, that these guys were yanking my chain'..."

What Col. Walt Figel (USAF Ret.) actually told me in an audiotaped interview was quite different, something James already knew when he wrote the passage above, because I had earlier posted large excerpts from the interview on the same blog. A similar excerpt appears below.
<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O></O>
James' selective editing of Figel's words—regarding the report he got from the Security Alert Team member of a UFO hovering directly over one of Echo’s missile silos—was intended to alter their meaning, to create the spin he requires to make his factually-inaccurate debunking of the Echo Flight UFO incident hold together.

After speaking with Figel, in October 2008, I urged James Carlson to call him, to hear all of this from the colonel’s own mouth. James has steadfastly refused to do so, nearly a year-and-a-half later, something one may verify by going to the link above and reviewing his posts on that thread. Carlson says he doesn't need to speak with the other person in the capsule that day because he knows that his "father would never lie to" him.

In short, anyone who reads James Carlson’s take on things, including what he says former Minuteman missile launch officer Bob Salas (or Col. Figel or I) supposedly said, and then checks his comments against the original source material, will quickly learn how reckless and selective James is with the facts.

VERBATIM EXCERPT FROM MY 10/20/08 INTERVIEW WITH COL. FIGEL:

WF: [When] the missiles dropped off alert, I started calling the maintenance people out there on the radio to talk to them. I had the security guard authenticate so I know I’m talking to a security guard and, you know, [I asked] “What’s going on? Is maintenance trying to get into the silo?” [The guard said,] “No, they’re still in the camper.” [So, I said,] “Get ‘em up, I want to talk to them.” Then I tried to tell them what I had was a Channel 9 No-Go.

RH: Uh huh.

WF: Uh, we did that with the sites that were there, that [had maintenance teams and their guards on site] and I sent Strike Teams to two other sites. There’s no sense sending them where I [already] have a guard and a gun and an authenticate.

RH: Right.

WF: Uh—

RH: So far in this narrative, you haven’t mentioned UFOs.

WF: [Laughs] That’s correct. Um, somewhere along the way, um, one of the maintenance people...says, “We got a Channel 9 No-Go. It must be a UFO hovering over the site. I think I see one here.” [I said,] “Yeah, right, whatever. What were you drinking?” And he tried to convince me of something and I said, well, I basically, you know, didn’t believe him. [Laughs] I said, you know, we have to get somebody to look at this [No-Go]. [A short time later] one of the Strike Teams that went out, one of the two, claimed that they saw something over the site.

RH: How did they describe that?

WF: Oh, on radio, [they said,] “There’s this large object hovering over the site!” I’ve always been a non-believer [in UFOs] so I said, “Right, sure you do.” [They responded,] “Yeah! Yeah, we do!” So, [I said,] “There’s two of you there, saying so, so write it down in your report.” [The Strike Team leader] said, “What do you want us to do?” [I said,] “Follow your checklist. Go to the site, open it up, and call me.”

RH: What was the demeanor of the guard you were talking to?

WF: Um, you know, I wouldn’t say panicked, or anything [like that]. I was thinking he was yanking my chain more than anything else.

RH: But he seemed to be serious to you?

WF: He seemed to be serious and I wasn’t taking him seriously.

RH: Alright. If it was a large object, did he describe the shape of the object?

WF: He just said a large round object.

RH: Directly over the LF?

WF: Directly over the site...

RH: Did he describe the object leaving the scene?

WF: No. He never said anything about it again...

RH: When you got the first call, well, when the missiles went down, you didn’t have an inkling of an alleged UFO-involvement until you got the report back from the first Strike Team member?

WF: That’s correct. (RH: Actually, upon reviewing the taped conversation with Figel, I realized that the missile maintenance man had apparently mentioned seeing the UFO first.)

RH: Okay, uh, and only one of the two teams reported seeing an object?

WF: Right.

RH: Uh, did you discuss the report with Mr. Carlson—that you were being told that there was a UFO at one of the sites?

WF: Um, he could hear it, uh, I mean he was sitting right there, two feet away from me—

RH: So—

WF: Whatever I said, he would have heard.

(Break. Figel describes going back to Malmstrom with Carlson and being debriefed by “everybody and his brother.”)

RH: Did any of the conversations back at squadron headquarters, uh, was there any mention of UFOs?

WF: I told them everything everyone told me. No one made any comments or inquiries—

RH: So you did mention the report that you got from the Strike Team?

WF: Yes.

RH: And no one asked any questions about UFOs per se?

WF: No.

RH: Did they act skeptically or negatively when you mentioned [the Strike Team’s UFO report]?

WF: They just wrote things down.

RH: [Laughs] That sounds right. Poker-faced and—

WF: [Laughs] Poker-faced and wrote things down. They just said, “Thank you very much. Don’t talk about it.” I didn’t sign anything, I can tell you that.

WF: What did Eric [Carlson] have to say [about the shutdown incident]? (RH had interviewed Carlson two weeks earlier, on 10/6/08)

RH: Uh, he said that he couldn’t recall any UFO-involvement in the incident. He couldn’t remember if you had mentioned UFOs, one way or another. His son [James] has now [posted] on a blog, a web log, a couple of lengthy statements in which he defamed Salas, said Salas was a liar, [and said] there was nothing involving UFOs at Echo...

WF: Did Eric say anything else that was a discontinuity [relative to what I’ve said]?

RH: ...Well, I [told Eric] that you had [heard from] a guard or a maintenance person that there was an object above the site, which you’ve confirmed today—

WF: Yes.

RH: —And I asked Eric if he remembered any of that, and he said that he did not. And, um, I asked him why his son would have written this scathing, very negative summary, which I will send [to] you, about the event—

WF: That will be interesting.

RH: —calling Salas a liar, and so on and so forth.

WF: Well, I didn’t do that.

RH: Well, I know, but his son, you know, for whatever reason, his son, James Carlson, has got a bug up his nose and said that nothing happened, there were no reports of UFOs, which you told me is incorrect because you got one.

WF: I did!

RH: Well, according to James, it was all bull and Salas was basically pulling it out of the air. [Eric] Carlson just, he didn’t really want to talk about it, frankly, but he did answer my questions. He just was kind of circumspect. I can’t say that he’s not being truthful when he says he doesn’t remember talking to you about UFOs, but that’s what he told me.

WF: I’m sure we had a long conversation [right after it happened]. I mean, I reported everything to him that I heard or was told. I mean, we were together, you know? [Laughs]

END OF TELEPHONE TRANSCRIPT

So, folks, James Carlson has it all wrong, according to his father’s deputy missile commander that day at Echo Flight, now retired Col. Walter Figel. Actually, James, the presence of a UFO at one of Echo’s missiles was seriously, not jokingly reported to Figel, by both a missile maintenance technician and a Security Alert Team member. It was described as a “large, round object”, hovering directly over the launch facility. <O></O>
<O></O>
Moreover, James, Figel insists that your father was fully aware of the situation, given that he was sitting “two feet away” from Figel during his phone calls with the on-site maintenance man and the responding missile security policeman. As to why your father can not, or will not, confirm Figel’s story, I won’t speculate.

Now, there is independent confirmation of airmen at Echo Flight reporting UFOs at the time of the shutdowns. Robert Kaminski, the Boeing Corporation engineer responsible for investigating the Minuteman missile shutdowns at Echo Flight, wrote to researcher James Klotz on February 1, 1997, and told Klotz what actually happened after his team began their inquiry.

EXCERPTS FROM KAMINSKI’S LETTER TO JAMES KLOTZ

“Hi James,

...At the time of the incident, I was an engineer in the MIP/CNP (Material Improvement Project/Controlled Numbered Problem) group. This was a Logistics Engineering group. The group was contracted by the Air Force so that Boeing could respond to specific Air Force Minuteman Missiles problems that occurred in the field. The assignments came from the OOAMA Air Material Command. Our group was made up of a small unit of engineers that were knowledgeable of, and had worked on the Minuteman Missile program...<O></O>
<O></O>
We were usually notified by our OOAMA Boeing contact (located at <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1lace w:st="on">Hill <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

AFB</st1laceType></ST1lace>) when a request was coming in from the Air Force. Don Peterson, was our Boeing OOAMA contact...
<O></O>
I was handed the E-Flight CNP assignment when it arrived by the group supervisor. As the internal Boeing project engineer I arranged meetings necessary with management and technical personnel required to determine a course of action to be taken, in exploring why 10 missiles had suddenly fallen from alert status, green to red, with no explanation for it. This was an unusual request and we had no prior similar incident or experience to this kind of anomaly. At the time of the request, no mention was made of an UFO involvement...

Since this was a field site peculiar incident, a determination was made to send out an investigation team to survey the LCF and the LFs to determine what failures or related incidents could be found to explain the cause...there were about 5 persons in all that were sent out. After a week in the field the team returned and pooled their data. <O></O>
<O></O>
At the outset the team quickly noticed a lack of anything that would come close to explain why the event occurred. There were no significant failures, engineering data or findings that would explain how ten missiles were knocked off alert. This indeed turned out to be a rare event and not encountered before. The use of backup power systems and other technical system circuit operational redundancy strongly suggests that this kind of event is virtually impossible once the system was up and running and on line with other LCF's and LF's interconnectivity.

The only thing that even came close to a failure was that a transformer on a commercial power pole down the road from one of the sites was in the process of failing. It exhibited a intermittent transient type of failure that could have generated noise spikes on the power line. This in itself could not have caused the problem at E-Flight. The problem was reported to the local power company who took action to replace the transformer.

The team met with me to report their findings and it was decided that the final report would have nothing significant in it to explain what happened at E-Flight. In other words there was no technical explanation that could explain the event. The team went off to do the report. Meanwhile I was contacted by our representative at OOAMA (Don Peterson) and told by him that the incident was reported as being a UFO event--That a UFO was seen by some Airmen over the LCF at the time E-Flight went down.

Subsequently, we were notified a few days later that a stop work order was on the way from OOAMA to stop any further effort on this project. We stopped. We were also told that we were not to submit the final engineering report. This was most unusual since all of our work required review by the customer and the submittal of a final Engineering report to OOAMA.

Days later, I asked our Boeing OOAMA rep what was going on. His reply to me--off the record---was that the LCF capsule jockeys were suspected of causing the problem somehow by something they did to one of the digital racks in the LCF. The Air Force capsule officers apparently were quietly removed from their job as LCF officers. This part of the story can not be verified by me, as it was hearsay...

Sincerely Yours,

[Robert Kaminski]

END OF LETTER TO KLOTZ

In short, the Air Force eventually lied about the reasons for the Echo Flight shutdown by telling Boeing rep Don Peterson that the launch officers (James’ father and Walt Figel) had screwed up and had been relieved of their positions. We now know that was a cover story. Kaminski had earlier learned the truth—about airmen reporting UFOs at E Flight—from Peterson.

In summary, while James Carlson’s ongoing misrepresentations about the shutdown incident Echo Flight may fool uninformed persons, the facts are available for anyone who wishes to pursue them.

--Robert Hastings
http://www.ufohastings.com<O></O>
<O></O>

 

[James Carlson]

Gentlemen, and Ladies,

Robert Hastings has made much of the fact that I have refused to interview his witness, Col. (Ret.) Walter Figel, Jr., regarding his recollections of the Echo Flight Incident on March 16, 1967. To be precise, he has written "I note first that James Carlson still refuses to call retired Col. Walt Figel, to hear from his own lips, as I did in October 2008, that while on alert as the DMCCC at Malmstrom's Echo Flight, in March 1967, he spoke with two individuals via the phone in the capsule--a missile maintenance team member and an arriving SAT team member--about a "large round object" that was hovering over one of the flight's LFs. James' father, Eric Carlson, lied to him some time ago--telling him that no UFOs were present when all 10 missiles dropped-off alert status--and so James has been slandering and libeling everyone who disputes that version of events ever since, Including one former MIMS tech whom I interviewed a few years ago." He stated as well: "So, James Carlson, rant on. If you ever find the courage to call Col. Figel please let me know. I will provide his phone number, as I first offered to do a year-and-a-half ago."

Frankly, I've never needed his assitance to contact Col. Figel -- I've managed to do so quite easily on my own. The fact that I have been reticent to discuss the matter in more detail has very little to do with cowardice. I have, in fact, contacted Col. Figel, but didn't feel that it would be very ethical to discuss in detail the event he recalls without securing first his complete cooperation, authority, and permission to do so. Having secured that this very evening, I am now prepared to discuss the matter in full. I can also add, very strongly, that my father never lied to me about anything, as Hastings claims, and that his recollections match exactly those of Col. Figel's. I've "slandered and libeled" nobody, and I can say with complete confidence today that both Robert Hastings and Robert Salas have knowingly mislead their entire audience into believing a lie they were well aware of in order to sell their books.

To begin with, Col. Figel does not believe in UFOs and does not believe that they were even remotely associated with the Echo Flight Incident, or any other equipment failures at Malmstrom AFB in 1967 (or any other year, for that matter). In one of his emails to me, he stated conclusively that "I am not a fan of Salas, Hastings, or the whole UFO crowd. I have never seen one and flatly don't believe they exist at all. I just want you to be clear of my position on UFOs. They make good science fiction - nothing more." In a discussion of Robert Salas and James Klotz's book "Faded Giant" and Robert Hastings' book "UFOs and Nukes", Col. Figel states unequivocably that "I have read both of their books. There are many inaccurate statements and events in the books. I have told them both that." Apparently, both authors ignored what Figel told them. In addition, he states that "Oscar Flight NEVER had any problems and Salas was NEVER involved in any of them at all." Now that's a pretty definitive statement to make in light of the categorical importance both authors have previously invested the testimony of Col. Figel with.

More specifically, Col. Walt Figel has definitively agreed with the scenario of events that I have outlined on numerous internet forums, including this one, a scenario that shows exactly how laughable it is to believe that the "report" of a UFO received by Figel and my father could be anything other than a badly wrought joke made by junior enlisted military members in the course of establishing the status of the missiles at the silos they were encamped at. He states that NOBODY ever believed that UFOs were involved in this incident until Robert Salas came forward with his ridiculous and silly science fiction tale of interference from beyond the stars, and that he has told in no uncertain terms this very assessment to both Hastings and Salas. He is also as disgusted as I am and as every other citizen of this country should be at the systematic trashing of reputations these men have engaged in to no purpose whatsoever except to increase the sales of their inaccurate and fictional books -- destroying the reputations and decent memories of men like my father, MAJ (Ret.) Eric D. Carlson, the UFO Officer at Malmstrom AFB -- Lt. Col. Lewis D. Chase -- the Condon Committee UFO investigator Roy Craig, and everybody who was ever involved with the investigation of this singular event in USAF history.

Let me be very clear, especially as Robert Hastings in particular has been saying the most sickening things -- things that cannot be supported in any way whatsoever by anybody: the Echo Flight Incident did not involve UFOs. It was a comparatively mediocre electronic incident that Robert Hastings and Robert Salas have manufactured in order to sell books. Col. Walt Figel concurs in this estimation, and admits as well that he has told both individuals that their versions of this incident are not only inaccurate, but are simply works of fiction. In light of these revelations from Col. Figel, and as well as in anticipation of future contacts with ex-missileers more involved in the actual investigation of the Echo Flight Incident that he has very kindly given me, I will be updating the book that I have written "Americans, Credulous - or - The Arrogance of Congenital Liars & Other Character Defects - Establishing the Truth Behind the Echo Flight UFO Incident of March 16, 1967". As always, it can be read or downloaded for free at http://www.scribd.com/doc/26641522/Americans-Credulous-by-James-Carlson -- please tell your friends. Investigating the unknown is always an appreciated undertaking and always should be, but lying about your findings, destroying the reputations of those who can no longer defend themselves, and proposing as fact easily provable fictions and deceits for no other reason than the sale of your books is and ought to continue to be looked upon as unethical, dishonest, and criminally stupid, regardless of the source.

Since I am very much aware of the strategies undertaken by Robert Hastings in particular regarding matters like this that question his veracity, honesty, motivations and ethics, I would like to assure the members of this forum that I have no intentions whatsoever of conducting any sort of debate regarding these matters on this forum. Robert Hastings is welcome to respond to me privately at any time, but if he wishes to conduct a campaign of disinformation and deceit, he must do so within the confines of another forum entirely. Frankly, most people are absolutely sick of his dishonest arguments and intellect, as well as his habit of countering facts with a continuous helter-skelter of nonsense and trivia. I will not respond to Hastings at all on any forum that is not willing to put up with his crap, but I did think that these revelations were substantive enough to interest many members of this community. The fact of the matter is, every member of the crew that was on duty when the Echo Flight missiles were taken offline by an electronic noise pulse on March 16, 1967 are adamant that no UFOs were involved, no actual UFOs were ever reported to them, and they have repeatedly said the same to both Robert Hastings and Robert Salas. A poor joke was made at the time, as I've delineated recently in this forum, and Col. Figel confirms that it was understood by everyone at the time as just a joke. Nobody reported UFOs. There was no investigation of UFOs at Echo Flight. The only instructions they received from anybody at anytime was a reminder not to discuss the event or the ongoing investigation; they were never told not to discuss the UFOs, because the subject of UFOs never came up except during a very short interview in which the "joke" was offhandedly mentioned; NOBODY ever mentioned UFOs in relation to Echo Flight or any other equipment failures again, and Col. Figel has in the past explained all of this to both Hastings and Salas.

Only "rumors" of UFOs were ever discussed by anybody, just as the command histories all assert, and these -- as I've repeatedly affirmed -- were caused by a combination of this single, poorly executed joke, and the already confirmed fact that Raymond Fowler, a NICAP investigator who worked with Sylvania Corporation, was made aware -- due to his employment -- that the Echo Flight Incident had occurred. He didn't know any details regarding this event, because Sylvania wasn't involved even remotely with the investigation, so the information he had was based entirely on rumors -- he wasn't cleared for any details whatsoever. Unfortunately, Fowler told what little he knew to Roy Craig, an investigator with the Condon committee tasked by the Air Force with studying UFO phenomena, and told Craig as well that he suspected UFOs may have been involved. They weren't. The fact of the matter is that Fowler did not know the exact date of the incident, and told Craig that he suspected it had occurred coincident to a UFO reported on March 24-25, and subsequently investigated by Lt. Col. Lewis D. Chase for Project Blue Book and Malmstrom AFB. These "rumors" referred to in the command histories, therefore, stemmed from the fact that Raymond Fowler didn't know as much about Echo Flight as he thought, including the date on which it occurred. All of this has been documented since 1995, as I have also discussed in my narrative, and can be examined or downloaded by anybody at any time at http://www.scribd.com/doc/26641522/Americans-Credulous-by-James-Carlson completely without charge.

Thank you, and please feel free to contact me at any time at [email protected] if you have any comments regarding this matter. Please note as well that I have no intention of responding to Hastings on this forum -- although I'm equally sure he'll respond to this with more layered objections that are essentially meaningless. If he wishes to respond in any way, he can do so under the concerned but honest moderation at Reality Uncovered. They won't put up with his nonsense.

Most sincerely,
James Carlson

 

[James Carlson]

Gentlemen, and Ladies,

Recent communications from Robert Hastings seem to indicate that my statements regarding Col.(Ret.) Walt Figel's discussion of the Echo Flight Incident has resulted in some back and forth between Hastings and Robert Salas (who has been relatively quiet, at least in public, regarding the assertions I have made). Both authors have recently contacted Col. Figel in their attempts to recreate a new bottom line, and Col. Figel was very open and congenial about the entire matter, and the whole thing is almost amusing in light of what I've learned from him and discussed on this forum.

You'll remember that I very recently reported statements he made in one of his emails to me. Specifically, he wrote:

I am not a fan of Salas, Hastings, or the whole UFO crowd.
I have never seen one and flatly don't believe they exist at all.
I just want you to be clear of my position on UFOs.
They make good science fiction -- nothing more.

I have read both of their books.
There are many inaccurate statements and events in the books.
I have told them both that.
For instance, Oscar flight NEVER had any problems and Salas was NEVER involved in any of them at all just for starters.

He reemphasized these comments when I spoke with on the telephone the following day, asserting as well that he spoke with Robert Salas on two different occasions, mentioning again that nothing had occurred at November or Oscar Flight, implying thereby that his claims were demonstrably false. That is what I understood, and that is how I interpreted his statements.

Upon being "re-interviewed" by both Robert Salas and Robert Hastings, Col. Figel wrote me again, and was, again, very open, congenial, and definitive regarding his experiences on March 16, 1967, and -- once again -- he confirmed everything that my father has ever told me about the Echo light Incident. Specifically, he wrote the following (I've left out some private comments):

James

I guess you must have posted something somewhere that got Hastings attention.
He did call and we did speak for a bit, so did Salas.
You should know that both calls were very cordial as was ours. ...

I have no vested or financial interests in UFOs and actually not even a passing interest in them. Guess I am different from most people. But, I could really care less about the subject.

I reasserted that I personally never did see a UFO at any time.
I do not personally "believe" that UFOs had anything to do with Echo flight shutting down that year.
I repeated that I never heard about an incident at November or Oscar flight and have no knowledge that they ever happened and that I doubted they did.
That is obviously a personal opinion as I can not prove the negative.

I repeated that Colonel Dick Evans was at the alternate command post at Kilo which is in the same squadron as November and Oscar and he never mentioned anything about a shutdown at either of these two flights.

Col. Evans is a very good friend of Col. Figel's; they have remained in touch all of these years, and still live very near each other; Col. Evans worked in the same squadron as Salas did at the time, and his recollections to Figel, as related to me, seems to consist mostly of denials that any such event occurred that he could remember.

If it did happen, I personally don't know anything about it.

One of their books said I had a personal log -- I did not.
The only log I ever filled out was the official log that all flights kept and that I do not and never did have a copy of that log. Obviously I can not remember what I wrote that morning.

One of the books says that the flight shut down in "seconds" -- that is not an exactly accurate statement.
It obviously took some time for your dad and I to run the appropriate checklists and make all the calls that we had to make to the command post and maintenance. We were near the end of the checklist when the second missile shut down and shortly threafter the rest of them followed suit.
That sequence of events took several minutes not seconds, but that is all a very minor point in fact and doesn't change the facts of the overall sequence of events that morning.

I told him [Hastings or Salas] that when someone mentioned UFOs, I just laughed it off as a joke and assumed someone was just kidding around. I never took it seriously.
I also told them [Hastings and Salas] that no one from any UFO office in the Air Force ever interviewed/debriefed your dad and/or me and that I do not remember ever signing any papers about anything.
In fact, I told them that until he mentioned it, I did not even know there was an office that monitored sightings of "UFOs" in the Air Force.

Col. Figel also confirmed that with me on the telephone. He was unaware that there was a command UFO officer, and he was never questioned about UFOs by anybody; had there been a genuine UFO report, Lt.Col. Chase would have been required to investigate it in his role as UFO officer for Malmstrom AFB in accordance with AFR 80-17, which went into effect September 1966.

When your dad and I came topside the next day -- no one ever said anything about UFOs and there was no "large gathering" of people on site that morning.
There may have been later that afternoon, but I would have no knowledge of that as we were long gone back to the base as usual.

I did not know the targeting office's name or even know that he was there.

I did say there was a VRSA recording reporting a "Channel 9 - NO GO" reported.
They [Hastings and Salas] said that the maintenance crews had no such report at the LF.

This is also not true -- the command histories are very clear regarding this matter; VRSA indications at the LCC registered channel 9 and 12 No-Go, while VRSA indications at the LFs registered only channel 9 No-Go. This is simply another attempt by Hastings to rewrite history, so that his "witness" Henry “Hank” Barlow -- who claimed that all VRSA indications read nothing, and had obviously failed -- comes across as more reliable. Except the VRSA at the LFs did not fail, and the command histories prove that; in other words, another one of his "witnesses" has been proven wrong.

I told him that I did not know how the system worked at the missile site so that I do not know if that is possible or not.

Although Hastings' own transcriptions of Col. Figel's interview two years ago confirms that the maintenance personnelman who called in the missile status on the SIN telephone underground at the launch equipment room the morning of March 16, 1967, stated specifically “We got a Channel 9 No-Go. It must be a UFO hovering over the site. I think I see one here.” This is what Col. Figel refers to above regarding a "VRSA recording reporting a 'Channel 9 - NO GO' reported". If the VRSA indications were not functioning as they were supposed to, maintenance could never have phoned in the status of the missiles as "channel 9 No-Go". So Hastings own transcriptions prove as well that VRSA was operating fine, and Barlow's ridiculous story is false. The command history for March 16, 1967 states "The only unusual LF events noted were the failure of the secondary door actuator motor at LF, E-2 and the intermittent operation of the diesel generator at LF, E-8." There's no mention anywhere that VRSA was not operating as it was designed to. It worked just fine, and the indications it recorded helped the investigative field team determine what the problem was that casued the flight to go offline.

I have always maintained that I do not personally believe in UFOs.
I am not convinced that November or Oscar ever happened.

This in reference to Salas' claim that he was at November Flight, which he later changed to Oscar Flight, when the same thing supposedly occurred there, caused again -- supposedly -- by a UFO. There is no contemporary evidence or documentation anywhere suggesting that this event occurred. Col. Figel, partly as a result of his friendship with Col. Evans, does not believe that this incident ever happened. Robert Salas claims that the MCCC on the occasion of this otherwise unrecorded event, was -- at the time -- CAPT Frederick Meiwald. Meiwald has confirmed to me in a personal email that, like my father and Col. Figel, he also does not believe in UFOs, which, of course, means he does not believe UFOs were responsible for anything that may have happened at Oscar Flight, or any other flight he was responsible for.

But these are obviously personal opinions and I can not state them as facts or prove them -- they are my personal beliefs.

I also believe these statements are accurate.
I also believe that is what I said 2 years ago, but I don't have recordings.

Robert Hastings has been very assertive that he does have these recordings -- and he has quoted from them liberally in the above transcription from an original posting of his at http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=176314 .

So my knowledge is very slim and I have no records about anything at all.
In addition, that was 43 years ago and memories fail - especially about things that were not especially important to me at the time. ...

So if this is a help, so be it.

Col.(Ret.) Walter Figel has stated as well that he does not wish to be involved in any long standing debate regarding UFOs, asserting that he would rather "leave that to the experts and researchers and those who know or at least truly believe that they know. After all they may be right and proven so some day. As for me, I'll just go my way as a skeptic until proven wrong."

He also mentioned that he sent a copy of this same email to Robert Hastings, indicating again that he would rather not be questioned regarding this event again. He affirmed that his written statement above is clear and discusses exactly what happened. I'd like to note as well that his statements reflect exactly what my father has told me, and what Col. Figel told me as well last week on the telephone. I told him in response to this email that as far as I was concerned, his very definitive statement was indeed very clear, and that I would respect his privacy regarding the matter, and would not raise the topic again with him. Robert Hastings and Robert Salas are free, of course, to do as they will. Although it's true that Robert Hastings, at least, tends to reinterview his witnesses whenever I discuss how ridiculous prior statements sound in the context of a military environment -- note the reinterview above that Hastings conducted with Col. Figel after I questioned his interpretation of those events two years ago -- I can only hope that Hastings will accept this final statement of Figel's with good grace, and will quit bothering him regarding this very old, very much closed incident.

Most sincerely,
James Carlson
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Paul Kimball]

Gentlemen, and Ladies,

Robert Hastings has made much of the fact that I have refused to interview his witness, Col. (Ret.) Walter Figel, Jr., regarding his recollections of the Echo Flight Incident on March 16, 1967. To be precise, he has written "I note first that James Carlson still refuses to call retired Col. Walt Figel, to hear from his own lips, as I did in October 2008, that while on alert as the DMCCC at Malmstrom's Echo Flight, in March 1967, he spoke with two individuals via the phone in the capsule--a missile maintenance team member and an arriving SAT team member--about a "large round object" that was hovering over one of the flight's LFs. James' father, Eric Carlson, lied to him some time ago--telling him that no UFOs were present when all 10 missiles dropped-off alert status--and so James has been slandering and libeling everyone who disputes that version of events ever since, Including one former MIMS tech whom I interviewed a few years ago." He stated as well: "So, James Carlson, rant on. If you ever find the courage to call Col. Figel please let me know. I will provide his phone number, as I first offered to do a year-and-a-half ago."

Frankly, I've never needed his assitance to contact Col. Figel -- I've managed to do so quite easily on my own. The fact that I have been reticent to discuss the matter in more detail has very little to do with cowardice. I have, in fact, contacted Col. Figel, but didn't feel that it would be very ethical to discuss in detail the event he recalls without securing first his complete cooperation, authority, and permission to do so. Having secured that this very evening, I am now prepared to discuss the matter in full. I can also add, very strongly, that my father never lied to me about anything, as Hastings claims, and that his recollections match exactly those of Col. Figel's. I've "slandered and libeled" nobody, and I can say with complete confidence today that both Robert Hastings and Robert Salas have knowingly mislead their entire audience into believing a lie they were well aware of in order to sell their books.

To begin with, Col. Figel does not believe in UFOs and does not believe that they were even remotely associated with the Echo Flight Incident, or any other equipment failures at Malmstrom AFB in 1967 (or any other year, for that matter). In one of his emails to me, he stated conclusively that "I am not a fan of Salas, Hastings, or the whole UFO crowd. I have never seen one and flatly don't believe they exist at all. I just want you to be clear of my position on UFOs. They make good science fiction - nothing more." In a discussion of Robert Salas and James Klotz's book "Faded Giant" and Robert Hastings' book "UFOs and Nukes", Col. Figel states unequivocably that "I have read both of their books. There are many inaccurate statements and events in the books. I have told them both that." Apparently, both authors ignored what Figel told them. In addition, he states that "Oscar Flight NEVER had any problems and Salas was NEVER involved in any of them at all." Now that's a pretty definitive statement to make in light of the categorical importance both authors have previously invested the testimony of Col. Figel with.

More specifically, Col. Walt Figel has definitively agreed with the scenario of events that I have outlined on numerous internet forums, including this one, a scenario that shows exactly how laughable it is to believe that the "report" of a UFO received by Figel and my father could be anything other than a badly wrought joke made by junior enlisted military members in the course of establishing the status of the missiles at the silos they were encamped at. He states that NOBODY ever believed that UFOs were involved in this incident until Robert Salas came forward with his ridiculous and silly science fiction tale of interference from beyond the stars, and that he has told in no uncertain terms this very assessment to both Hastings and Salas. He is also as disgusted as I am and as every other citizen of this country should be at the systematic trashing of reputations these men have engaged in to no purpose whatsoever except to increase the sales of their inaccurate and fictional books -- destroying the reputations and decent memories of men like my father, MAJ (Ret.) Eric D. Carlson, the UFO Officer at Malmstrom AFB -- Lt. Col. Lewis D. Chase -- the Condon Committee UFO investigator Roy Craig, and everybody who was ever involved with the investigation of this singular event in USAF history.

Let me be very clear, especially as Robert Hastings in particular has been saying the most sickening things -- things that cannot be supported in any way whatsoever by anybody: the Echo Flight Incident did not involve UFOs. It was a comparatively mediocre electronic incident that Robert Hastings and Robert Salas have manufactured in order to sell books. Col. Walt Figel concurs in this estimation, and admits as well that he has told both individuals that their versions of this incident are not only inaccurate, but are simply works of fiction. In light of these revelations from Col. Figel, and as well as in anticipation of future contacts with ex-missileers more involved in the actual investigation of the Echo Flight Incident that he has very kindly given me, I will be updating the book that I have written "Americans, Credulous - or - The Arrogance of Congenital Liars & Other Character Defects - Establishing the Truth Behind the Echo Flight UFO Incident of March 16, 1967". As always, it can be read or downloaded for free at http://www.scribd.com/doc/26641522/Americans-Credulous-by-James-Carlson -- please tell your friends. Investigating the unknown is always an appreciated undertaking and always should be, but lying about your findings, destroying the reputations of those who can no longer defend themselves, and proposing as fact easily provable fictions and deceits for no other reason than the sale of your books is and ought to continue to be looked upon as unethical, dishonest, and criminally stupid, regardless of the source.

Since I am very much aware of the strategies undertaken by Robert Hastings in particular regarding matters like this that question his veracity, honesty, motivations and ethics, I would like to assure the members of this forum that I have no intentions whatsoever of conducting any sort of debate regarding these matters on this forum. Robert Hastings is welcome to respond to me privately at any time, but if he wishes to conduct a campaign of disinformation and deceit, he must do so within the confines of another forum entirely. Frankly, most people are absolutely sick of his dishonest arguments and intellect, as well as his habit of countering facts with a continuous helter-skelter of nonsense and trivia. I will not respond to Hastings at all on any forum that is not willing to put up with his crap, but I did think that these revelations were substantive enough to interest many members of this community. The fact of the matter is, every member of the crew that was on duty when the Echo Flight missiles were taken offline by an electronic noise pulse on March 16, 1967 are adamant that no UFOs were involved, no actual UFOs were ever reported to them, and they have repeatedly said the same to both Robert Hastings and Robert Salas. A poor joke was made at the time, as I've delineated recently in this forum, and Col. Figel confirms that it was understood by everyone at the time as just a joke. Nobody reported UFOs. There was no investigation of UFOs at Echo Flight. The only instructions they received from anybody at anytime was a reminder not to discuss the event or the ongoing investigation; they were never told not to discuss the UFOs, because the subject of UFOs never came up except during a very short interview in which the "joke" was offhandedly mentioned; NOBODY ever mentioned UFOs in relation to Echo Flight or any other equipment failures again, and Col. Figel has in the past explained all of this to both Hastings and Salas.

Only "rumors" of UFOs were ever discussed by anybody, just as the command histories all assert, and these -- as I've repeatedly affirmed -- were caused by a combination of this single, poorly executed joke, and the already confirmed fact that Raymond Fowler, a NICAP investigator who worked with Sylvania Corporation, was made aware -- due to his employment -- that the Echo Flight Incident had occurred. He didn't know any details regarding this event, because Sylvania wasn't involved even remotely with the investigation, so the information he had was based entirely on rumors -- he wasn't cleared for any details whatsoever. Unfortunately, Fowler told what little he knew to Roy Craig, an investigator with the Condon committee tasked by the Air Force with studying UFO phenomena, and told Craig as well that he suspected UFOs may have been involved. They weren't. The fact of the matter is that Fowler did not know the exact date of the incident, and told Craig that he suspected it had occurred coincident to a UFO reported on March 24-25, and subsequently investigated by Lt. Col. Lewis D. Chase for Project Blue Book and Malmstrom AFB. These "rumors" referred to in the command histories, therefore, stemmed from the fact that Raymond Fowler didn't know as much about Echo Flight as he thought, including the date on which it occurred. All of this has been documented since 1995, as I have also discussed in my narrative, and can be examined or downloaded by anybody at any time at http://www.scribd.com/doc/26641522/Americans-Credulous-by-James-Carlson completely without charge.

Thank you, and please feel free to contact me at any time at [email protected] if you have any comments regarding this matter. Please note as well that I have no intention of responding to Hastings on this forum -- although I'm equally sure he'll respond to this with more layered objections that are essentially meaningless. If he wishes to respond in any way, he can do so under the concerned but honest moderation at Reality Uncovered. They won't put up with his nonsense.

Most sincerely,
James Carlson

That, ladies and gentlemen, is the equivalent of character assassination, drive-by shooting style.

Carlson's problem isn't that he's necessarily wrong, because the Malmstrom case is certainly one that can be debated by reasonable people. His problem is that he comes across as a mean-spirited ass, and anything but a reasonable person.

 

[Keiko]

I heard from a friend who's a UFO reseacher in Germany that he had received an email from Carlson arguing at length about how Hastings and Salas were wrong etc. He was was pretty suspicious at getting an unsolicited email from this stranger and basically just ignored it. Whatever point this guy may want to make...this kind of behaviour is BS.

 

[skunkape]

arguing at length .

Yeah...I dated that chick for a short period of time.

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[Paul Kimball]

@Paul,

I think James has shown serious, indeed fatal flaws with Hastings' work and I have also noticed that Hasting really has no response.
Like our discussion of Ted Phillips, I think Hastings' reputation is far larger than his work deserves (and by that I mean his reputation among those of us who follow this stuff, which is almost no one).

I took him to task for his elevation of some silly YouTube videos (obvious frauds) that he was suggesting had some value, no doubt because they were taken in Moscow, which somehow furthers his own dubious theories. This episode showed a distinct lack of judgment in my estimation.

===

Lance

Lance,

I'm not a big fan of Hastings, who in his own way I find almost as bad as Carlson, although there are a number of interesting cases in and around nuclear facilities that warrant attention. My problem with Carlson is his presentation, and the malice that lies behind it. There is a way to have a conversation, or a debate, and be reasonable, and Carlson hasn't done it. The result is that I tune out, because life is too short for people like that.

 

[Paul Kimball]

Thanks Paul, hopefully you noticed my remarks to Carlson along the same lines.

Lance

He contacted me with his screed many months ago, via Facebook, because the malmstrom case is in my film Best Evidence (hey - I'm just the messenger. I like Bob Salas, but Malmstrom wouldn't be on my personal top 10). Anyway, I tried to be polite and tell him that I wasn't interested, and that a lot of it had to do with the way he presented whatever information he has. I haven't seen Printy's synopsis, so maybe he's pulled it into some sort of coherent and less vitriolic whole. Do you have a link?

I would be careful of any information from Carlson, however, and double-check its veracity (and then check it again). Anyone that emotionally invested in something has a major credibility problem with me.

And seeing as how Malmstrom has come up:

 

[Sean Elifritz]

Lance,

I'm not a big fan of Hastings, who in his own way I find almost as bad as Carlson, although there are a number of interesting cases in and around nuclear facilities that warrant attention. My problem with Carlson is is presentation, and the malice that lies behind it. There is a way to have a conversation, or a debate, and be reasonable, and Carlson hasn't done it. The result is that I tune out, because life is too short for people like that.

This is by no means a challenge in any kind of way, Paul, but genuine curiosity. This makes two different researchers you've been somewhat critical of in the last day or two that don't frequently see much criticism coming their way (Compared to a lot of other personalties in the UFO field anyway.). Just wondering who you are a big fan of. Who gets the Paul Kimball endorsement?

My personal take on Hastings and Phillips are pretty much positive. But that's based largely on what other people say about them. I'm not that familiar with the details of their work because neither of them publish much. Hastings has just one book (And I haven't bought it yet despite telling him in this very thread that I would. ) and I don't think Phillips has written any books at all. Primarily I know that Hastings is the nukes guy and Phillips is the traces guy and that they both have pretty good reputations. One thing I do tend to wonder every time Phillips gets mentioned is where he gets the time and money to collect samples from several thousand different landing locations. That seems like a whole lot of travel expenses! Or are people scooping the stuff up themselves and sending it to him? Beats me.

 

[Paul Kimball]

Thanks Paul,

You know how much I love that film!

Here's the link for Tim's piece:

http://home.comcast.net/~tprinty/UFO/SUNlite2_2.pdf

Thanks,

Lance

I still think you were way off base on Brad's work on the Johnson case, so I tuned out of that thread.

Vive le difference. Or is it "la"?

 

[ArchieBedford]

there are a number of interesting cases in and around nuclear facilities that warrant attention. My problem with Carlson is his presentation, and the malice that lies behind it. There is a way to have a conversation, or a debate, and be reasonable, and Carlson hasn't done it. The result is that I tune out, because life is too short for people like that.

Having spent personal time with both Hastings and Salas, they seem to me to be 100% genuine and more than credible. Robert Hastings has been researching this issue of UFOs interacting with nuclear weapons facilities patiently, with persistence and professionalism for more than 30 years. I would rate his book in my top five on the UFO subject ever published, and his original research as amongst the very best.

But it's obvious Carlson is none of these things. He comes across as having a single-minded obsession and to be engaged purely in character assassination; a kind of stalker. What's in it for him? Who knows. Emotion rules here, it appears.

We've seen exactly this kind of behavior on these web forums from someone else in the past months. Sad. Go get a life, Mr. Carlson. You're starting to bore people.

 

[Paul Kimball]

This is by no means a challenge in any kind of way, Paul, but genuine curiosity. This makes two different researchers you've been somewhat critical of in the last day or two that don't frequently see much criticism coming their way (Compared to a lot of other personalties in the UFO field anyway.). Just wondering who you are a big fan of. Who gets the Paul Kimball endorsement?

My personal take on Hastings and Phillips are pretty much positive. But that's based largely on what other people say about them. I'm not that familiar with the details of their work because neither of them publish much. Hastings has just one book (And I haven't bought it yet despite telling him in this very thread that I would. ) and I don't think Phillips has written any books at all. Primarily I know that Hastings is the nukes guy and Phillips is the traces guy and that they both have pretty good reputations. One thing I do tend to wonder every time Phillips get mentioned is where he gets the time and money to collect samples from several thousand different landing locations. That seems like a whole lot of travel expenses! Or are people scooping the stuff up themselves and sending it to him? Beats me.

I've seen Hastings interact with others, and he comes across as a confrontational blow-hard (ed. note: takes one to know one). I'm just not impressed by Phillips' catalogue of cases, which resembles Len Stringfield's work in many respects - and that's not a compliment. Having said that, between the two I would rather listen to Phillips, who seems like a genuinely nice man, than Hastings, who I think hinders, rather than helps, the serious study of nuclear-related UFO cases.

Who gets my seal of approval? Hell, I wouldn't even give myself my own seal of approval. It shouldn't be about people, really, but rather the quality of their work, which can vary over time (ed. note: even George W. Bush got some things right). However, if one is to look at a body of work, good and bad, and make a judgment, I think very highly of Jerry Clark, and I had a great deal of respect for the late Dick Hall, who I considered a friend. Ditto the late Karl Pflock, on both counts. I also think very highly of Brad Sparks, who, unlike a lot of researchers, eschews the limelight, which is always a good sign in my opinion. I think Jacques Vallee did a lot of good work. I think Greg Bishop's book on the Bennewitz case is the most important UFO-related book of the past two decades, and criminally overlooked within ufology because they didn't want to hear what he was saying. Kevin Randle. Canadians Chris Styles, Don Ledger, and Chris Rutkowski. Dave Sadler, Steve Mera, David Clarke and Nick Pope in the UK. Nick Redfern is a great storyteller, and has done good archival research. But sadly, the list is pretty short... and getting shorter all the time.

None of this means that I always agree with the people I mentioned above. Greg and I disagree vehemently about Bill Moore, for example, and Jerry Clark and I have gotten into a number of tussles over the years, both at UFO Updates and in private correspondence (although usually not about UFOs). The point is that I think they are objective searchers for the truth, upon whom one can rely for as much intellectual honesty as is possible in this "field."

 

[Frank Stalter]

David Clarke and Nick Pope in the UK.

They don't seem to be too fond of each other these days. :O)