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UFOs and Nukes

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Its funny how people who try to attack Robert Hastings have done very little research.

---------- Post added at 07:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------

Paul you will never be happy. It does not matter how much credible evidence is given to you, you will never like it or agree with it, because it does not match your personal hypothesis.

James Carlson and anyone else who actually thinks they can debunk Robert Hastings 30 years of research will never be able to do so, because people like James Carlson bring no "evidence" to the table.

Long and Short of it is: Do your homework for 30 years like Robert Hastings has and people will finally take you seriously instead of giggling at your attempts to rewrite the known facts.
 
That, ladies and gentlemen, is the equivalent of character assassination, drive-by shooting style.

Carlson's problem isn't that he's necessarily wrong, because the Malmstrom case is certainly one that can be debated by reasonable people. His problem is that he comes across as a mean-spirited ass, and anything but a reasonable person.

I'm mean spirited? I've had to put up for years with people like you calling my father a liar, associating me with illegal drug use, and telling lies claiming that my family is concerned about my mental health, and terrified that I'm going to have a nervous breakdown, all of which has nothing at all to do with the case I've developed against these wise guy hacks who have still failed to respond in any relevant way whatsoever to the very real truths and factual accounts that I've raised. People like you put out ridiculous movies that fail to investigate any of the diocumented accounts in any thorough manner, and then tell the world it's a non-fiction doumentary that supposedly presents the best evidence available for the support of nothing but real world UFO lies that do more to misrepresent the aims of UFOlogy then a million assertions from me that these horrific people have been lying to the world for years in order to make money. They misrepresent themselves to people and repeat absolute slanders and disgusting insinuations, and tell people they're doing it in order to raise world consciousness about the need for complete disclosure, as if those magic words are a good enough excuse to destroy people's reputations, ruin public personas, make political claims without basis, and take without the tiniest regret the hard earned money of normal Americans across the country whom they've managed to dupe simply because they were naive enough to think these clowns and the filmmakers they've drafted in their nasty business are trustworthy enough to believe. And you call me mean-spirited? You're a hack, pal and you need to grow up and quit screwing around with the very real lives of very real people. You're a disgusting excuse for an American...
 
Carlson presents evidence above. I agree with Paul about the way it is presented but it is pretty damning.
I know about giggling...I did a bit of it when I saw Hastings get taken in by a stupid unattributed YouTube video like some befuddled grandpa.

Lance

Your taking an elitist position. In a court of law the jury would laugh you and James Carlson out of the courtroom.

The Judge would then rule in favor of Robert Hastings in a large victory for Robert.

---------- Post added at 07:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 PM ----------

I'm mean spirited? I've had to put up with people like you calling my father a liar, associating me with illegal drug use, and telling lies claiming that my family is concerned about my mental health, and terrified that I'm going to have a nervous breakdown, all of which has nothing at all to do with the case I've developed against these wise guy hacks who have still failed to respond in any whatsoever to the very real truths and factual accounts that I've raised. People like you put out ridiculous movies that fail to investigate any of the diocumented accounts in any thorough way whatsoever, and then tell the world it's a non-fiction doumentary that supposedly presents the best evidence available for support of UFO lies that do more to misrepresent the aims of UFOlogy then a million assertions from me that these horrific people have been lying to the world for years in order to make money. They misrepresent themselves to people and repeat absolute slanders and disgusting insinuations, and tell people they're doing it in order to raise world consciousness about the need for complete disclosure, as if those magic words are a good enough excuse to destroy people's reputations, ruin public personas, make political claims without basis, and take without the tiniest regret the hard earned money of normal Americans across the country whom they've managed to dupe simply because they were naive enough to think these clowns and the filmmakers they've drafted in their nasty business are trustworthy enough to believe. And you call me mean-spirited? You're a hack, pal and you need to grow up and quit screwing around with the very real lives of very real people. You're a disgusting excuse for an American...

Paul is Canadian you dumbo

---------- Post added at 07:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:34 PM ----------

Carlson presents evidence above. I agree with Paul about the way it is presented but it is pretty damning.
I know about giggling...I did a bit of it when I saw Hastings get taken in by a stupid unattributed YouTube video like some befuddled grandpa.

Lance


So what your saying is because the evidence proves Robert Hastings and Bob Salas to be correct, that you and Bill Nye can use baking soda to replace your lack of data?
 
I'm mean spirited? I've had to put up with people like you calling my father a liar, associating me with illegal drug use, and telling lies claiming that my family is concerned about my mental health, and terrified that I'm going to have a nervous breakdown, all of which has nothing at all to do with the case I've developed against these wise guy hacks who have still failed to respond in any whatsoever to the very real truths and factual accounts that I've raised. People like you put out ridiculous movies that fail to investigate any of the diocumented accounts in any thorough way whatsoever, and then tell the world it's a non-fiction doumentary that supposedly presents the best evidence available for support of UFO lies that do more to misrepresent the aims of UFOlogy then a million assertions from me that these horrific people have been lying to the world for years in order to make money. They misrepresent themselves to people and repeat absolute slanders and disgusting insinuations, and tell people they're doing it in order to raise world consciousness about the need for complete disclosure, as if those magic words are a good enough excuse to destroy people's reputations, ruin public personas, make political claims without basis, and take without the tiniest regret the hard earned money of normal Americans across the country whom they've managed to dupe simply because they were naive enough to think these clowns and the filmmakers they've drafted in their nasty business are trustworthy enough to believe. And you call me mean-spirited? You're a hack, pal and you need to grow up and quit screwing around with the very real lives of very real people. You're a disgusting excuse for an American...

I think it's time for Mr. Carlson to be banned. For the record, let it be noted that nowhere in my film is his father referenced in any way, nor have I ever written about his father.

Either way, I respectfully suggest that Mr. Carlson seek some sort of counselling for his anger management issues.
 
@James:

I'm a little disappointed that you didn't acknowledge my sincere message to you and instead responded to Paul in the way you did. By doing so you play right into the hands of your detractors (and I am not talking about Paul here), and fuel their ability to rhetorically toss aside your arguments.

You have good evidence that demolishes much of what Hastings claims. A more dispassionate presentation of it would serve you better. I should say no more about it since you seem of another opinion.

@Dnoid:

No idea what you are talking about--impenetrable. Above Carlson shows clear testimony that directly contradicts Hastings. You ignore it. That is not the same as winning except in the ridiculous realm of paranormal dogma.

Lance

Is that all you have? You give in that easy?

Lance if you do not want to end up being wrong everytime you get into a debate I advise you to do homework before you begin. So far nothing you post here makes any sense at all.

Lance it looks like your computer is tricking you into an artificial sense of accomplishment.
 
Its funny how people who try to attack Robert Hastings have done very little research.

---------- Post added at 07:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------

Paul you will never be happy. It does not matter how much credible evidence is given to you, you will never like it or agree with it, because it does not match your personal hypothesis.

James Carlson and anyone else who actually thinks they can debunk Robert Hastings 30 years of research will never be able to do so, because people like James Carlson bring no "evidence" to the table.

Long and Short of it is: Do your homework for 30 years like Robert Hastings has and people will finally take you seriously instead of giggling at your attempts to rewrite the known facts.

I'm talking about the way Hastings presents himself and argues his case, which I find overly confrontational and unprofessional. I made a point of distinguishing that opinion from the fact that I think there are a number of very interesting cases related to nuclear facilities. Indeed, it's because I think those cases deserve wider attention that I think having Hastings as their effective champion is a mistake. Sure, he plays well to the true believers, but that's it.

This points to a fundamental problem with "ufology" - the lack of an effective voice, that can present a reasonable case in a public forum. Hastings isn't that guy. Stan Friedman was, once, but he ruined that with Roswell, MJ-12, Aztec, Flatwoods... it's a long list. There's no-one out there with the combination of intellectual gravitas and media awareness that is needed.

No-one.

---------- Post added at 01:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 AM ----------

@ Lance - leaving aside the personal attacks by Carlson, can you provide a link to Printy's analysis?
 
James Carlson can foam at the mouth all he wishes. I have Col. Figel on tape (James does not) and Figel contradicts virtually everything James claims. I am working on an article, to be posted at UFO Chronicles, which will have links to the actual audiotaped conversations I had with Figel. Bob Salas has Figel on tape too and that tape will be accessible in the article as well. Among other things, Figel agrees with Salas that James is "off-the-wall."

I won't be responding further to James or anyone else on this thread until my article is finished. In the interim, here is my previous response to one of his rants. Because of the length limitation on posts, I have had to truncate the article with BREAKS. The full article is at:

http://www.theufochronicles.com/2008/12/did-ufos-cause-shutdown-of-icbms-at.html

Excerpts from my 10/20/08 telephone conversation with Col. Figel:

WF: [When] the missiles dropped off alert, I started calling the maintenance people out there on the radio to talk to them. I had the security guard authenticate so I know I’m talking to a security guard and, you know, [I asked] “What’s going on? Is maintenance trying to get into the silo?” [The guard said,] “No, they’re still in the camper.” [So, I said,] “Get ‘em up, I want to talk to them.” Then I tried to tell them what I had was a Channel 9 No-Go.

RH: Uh huh.

BREAK

WF: And the guy says, “We got a Channel 9 No-Go. It must be a UFO hovering over the site. I think I see one here.” [I said,] “Yeah, right, whatever. What were you drinking?” And he tried to convince me of something and I said, well, I basically, you know, didn’t believe him. [Laughs] I said, you know, we have to get somebody to look at this [No-Go]. [A short time later] one of the Strike Teams that went out, one of the two, claimed that they saw something over the site.

RH: How did they describe that?

WF: Oh, on radio, [they said,] “There’s this large object hovering over the site!” I’ve always been a non-believer [in UFOs] so I said, “Right, sure you do.” [They responded,] “Yeah! Yeah, we do!” So, [I said,] “There’s two of you there, saying so, so write it down in your report.” [The Strike Team leader] said, “What do you want us to do?” [I said,] “Follow your checklist. Go to the site, open it up, and call me.”

RH: What was the demeanor of the guard you were talking to?

WF: Um, you know, I wouldn’t say panicked, or anything [like that]. I was thinking he was yanking my chain more than anything else.

RH: But he seemed to be serious to you?

WF: He seemed to be serious and I wasn’t taking him seriously.

RH: Alright. If it was a large object, did he describe the shape of the object?

WF: He just said a large round object.

RH: Directly over the LF?

WF: Directly over the site.

BREAK

RH: Okay, uh, and only one of the two teams reported seeing an object?

WF: Right.

RH: Uh, did you discuss the report with Mr. Carlson—that you were being told that there was a UFO at one of the sites?

WF: Um, he could hear it, uh, I mean he was sitting right there, two feet away from me—

RH: So—

WF: Whatever I said, he would have heard.

BREAK

WF: What did Eric [Carlson] have to say [about the shutdown incident]? (RH had interviewed Carlson two weeks earlier, on 10/6/08.)

RH: Uh, he said that he couldn’t recall any UFO-involvement in the incident. He couldn’t remember if you had mentioned UFOs, one way or another. His son [James] has now [posted] on a blog, a web log, a couple of lengthy statements in which he defamed Salas, said Salas was a liar, [and said] there was nothing involving UFOs at Echo...

WF: Did Eric say anything else that was a discontinuity [relative to what I’ve said]?
<O:p></O:p>
RH: ...Well, I [told Eric] that you had [heard from] a guard or a maintenance person that there was an object above the site, which you’ve confirmed today—
<O:p></O:p>
WF: Yes.
<O:p></O:p>
RH: —And I asked Eric if he remembered any of that, and he said that he did not. And, um, I asked him why his son would have written this scathing, very negative summary, which I will send [to] you, about the event—
<O:p></O:p>
WF: That will be interesting.
<O:p></O:p>
RH: —calling Salas a liar, and so on and so forth.
<O:p></O:p>
WF: Well, I didn’t do that.
<O:p></O:p>
RH: Well, I know, but his son, you know, for whatever reason, his son, James Carlson, has got a bug up his nose and said that nothing happened, there were no reports of UFOs, which you told me is incorrect because you got one.
<O:p></O:p>
WF: I did!
<O:p></O:p>
RH: Well, according to James, it was all bull and Salas was basically pulling it out of the air. [Eric] Carlson just, he didn’t really want to talk about it, frankly, but he did answer my questions. He just was kind of circumspect. I can’t say that he’s not being truthful when he says he doesn’t remember talking to you about UFOs, but that’s what he told me.
<O:p></O:p>
WF: I’m sure we had a long conversation [right after it happened]. I mean, I reported everything to him that I heard or was told. I mean, we were together, you know? [Laughs]

END OF TELEPHONE TRANSCRIPT

So, folks, James Carlson has it all wrong, according to his father’s deputy missile commander that day at Echo Flight, now retired Col. Walter Figel. Actually, James, the presence of a UFO at one of Echo’s missiles was indeed reported to Figel, by both a missile maintenance technician and a Security Alert Team (or Strike Team) member. It was described as a “large, round object”, hovering directly over the launch facility. Moreover, Figel insists that your father was fully aware of the situation, given that he was sitting “two feet away” from Figel during his phone calls with the on-site maintenance man and the responding missile security policeman. As to why your father can not, or will not, confirm Figel’s story, I won’t speculate.

END OF ARTICLE ON UFO CHRONICLES

In short, while James Carlson’s ongoing misrepresentations about the Echo Flight may fool a few uninformed persons, the facts are available for anyone who wishes to pursue them.

--Robert Hastings
www.ufohastings.com
 
I'm talking about the way Hastings presents himself and argues his case, which I find overly confrontational and unprofessional. I made a point of distinguishing that opinion from the fact that I think there are a number of very interesting cases related to nuclear facilities. Indeed, it's because I think those cases deserve wider attention that I think having Hastings as their effective champion is a mistake. Sure, he plays well to the true believers, but that's it.

This points to a fundamental problem with "ufology" - the lack of an effective voice, that can present a reasonable case in a public forum. Hastings isn't that guy. Stan Friedman was, once, but he ruined that with Roswell, MJ-12, Aztec, Flatwoods... it's a long list. There's no-one out there with the combination of intellectual gravitas and media awareness that is needed.

No-one.

---------- Post added at 01:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 AM ----------

@ Lance - leaving aside the personal attacks by Carlson, can you provide a link to Printy's analysis?

Yes but Paul everyone knows you are one of the biggest confrontational figures in this field and you know you are. So it sounds like hypocrisy coming from your mouth when you call out others on things that yourself are guilty of.
 
Your taking an elitist position. In a court of law the jury would laugh you and James Carlson out of the courtroom.

The Judge would then rule in favor of Robert Hastings in a large victory for Robert.

---------- Post added at 07:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 PM ----------



Paul is Canadian you dumbo

---------- Post added at 07:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:34 PM ----------


So what your saying is because the evidence proves Robert Hastings and Bob Salas to be correct, that you and Bill Nye can use baking soda to replace your lack of data?

As for you, it's apparent you know nothing about the law. Why is it complete morons always talk about how in a court of law this is what people would believe? Do you think that's an intelligent response? You don't even understand this case, apparently. They have no eye witnesses, no witness who can prove they were there, and the one witness Hastings had who could say anything at all about UFOs has stated very clearly that Hastings misinterpreted what he said, and when he explained to Hastings exactly how wrong his suppositions and conclusions were, Hastings refused to fix the errors, because they destroyed his case for UFO involvement. There IS no evidence to suppiort Hastings' and Salas' claims. Just saying there is, doesn't make it so. Why don't you learn a little about the case before making idiotic comments? Only two people were there on March 16, 1967, and they have ALWAYS maintained that UFOs were not involved. Tell me, are you Canadian? Because your opinion isn't worth spit, either, and I was wondering if it's because you can't vote or because you're just a brainless twit.

The evidence I've presented is very real, and it has nothing at all to do with the insults and slanders that my family and I have been the subject of for years. And apparently it's something you're completely ignorant of as well...
 
As for you, it's apparent you know nothing about the law. Why is it complete morons always talk about how in a court of law this is what people would believe? Do you think that's an intelligent response? You don't even understand this case, apparently. They have no eye witnesses, no witness who can prove they were there, and the one witness Hastings had who could say anything at all about UFOs has stated very clearly that Hastings misinterpreted what he said, and when he explained to Hastings exactly how wrong his suppositions and conclusions were, Hastings refused to fix the errors, because they destroyed his case for UFO involvement. There IS no evidence to suppiort Hastings' and Salas' claims. Just saying there is, doesn't make it so. Why don't you learn a little about the case before making idiotic comments? Only two people were there on March 16, 1967, and they have ALWAYS maintained that UFOs were not involved. Tell me, are you Canadian? Because your opinion isn't worth spit, either, and I was wondering if it's because you can't vote or because you're just a brainless twit.

The evidence I've presented is very real, and it has nothing at all to do with the insults and slanders that my family and I have been the subject of for years. And apparently it's something you're completely ignorant of as well...

Do yourself a favor and read Robert Hastings article he just put in front of your eyes.

Don't be afraid James just read it, accept it, and move on.

I bet Mr. Carlson will not read it and Mr. Carlson will continue to not do any homework.

---------- Post added at 08:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:20 PM ----------

As for you, it's apparent you know nothing about the law. Why is it complete morons always talk about how in a court of law this is what people would believe? Do you think that's an intelligent response? You don't even understand this case, apparently. They have no eye witnesses, no witness who can prove they were there, and the one witness Hastings had who could say anything at all about UFOs has stated very clearly that Hastings misinterpreted what he said, and when he explained to Hastings exactly how wrong his suppositions and conclusions were, Hastings refused to fix the errors, because they destroyed his case for UFO involvement. There IS no evidence to suppiort Hastings' and Salas' claims. Just saying there is, doesn't make it so. Why don't you learn a little about the case before making idiotic comments? Only two people were there on March 16, 1967, and they have ALWAYS maintained that UFOs were not involved. Tell me, are you Canadian? Because your opinion isn't worth spit, either, and I was wondering if it's because you can't vote or because you're just a brainless twit.

The evidence I've presented is very real, and it has nothing at all to do with the insults and slanders that my family and I have been the subject of for years. And apparently it's something you're completely ignorant of as well...

timeline.gif
 
Yes but Paul everyone knows you are one of the biggest confrontational figures in this field and you know you are. So it sounds like hypocrisy coming from your mouth when you call out others on things that yourself are guilty of.

First, I'm not in "the field" because there is no "field." :rolleyes:

Second, I recognize that I've been confrontational in the past. I also have the self-awareness to recognize that it's counter-productive, and I've made a concerted effort to avoid that kind of useless arguing in recent years. As I said in the last show with Rich Dolan, I prefer to discuss areas of agreement, not disagreement, and to work constructively together where we can, and to go our separate ways in other areas. I must admit, however, that sometimes I just can't resist taking a shot at pure, outright stupidity - call it a character flaw. Unfortunately, there is no shortage of targets within "ufology."

It's not the disbelievers that I usually fire at, however - it's the believers, because in the end they do much more harm to the serious study of the subject, and the search for answers.

I would also add that I'm not putting myself out there as the public face of "ufology," or any aspect thereof. Good Lord, I shudder just thinking about it. ;)
 
First, I'm not in "the field" because there is no "field." :rolleyes:

Second, I recognize that I've been confrontational in the past. I also have the self-awareness to recognize that it's counter-productive, and I've made a concerted effort to avoid that kind of useless arguing in recent years. Not always successfully, I must admit, but sometimes I just can't resist taking a shot at pure, outright stupidity, of which there is no shortage of targets within "ufology."

It's not the disbelievers that I usually fire at, however - it's the believers, because in the end they do much more harm to the serious study of the subject, and the search for answers.

Robert Hastings is a frequent poster on this forum and a very good researcher. Why in the hell would you call him out in such a blatant style.

Paul everyone in the world is not going to be EXACTLY the way you want them to be. Its not a perfect world and if you want everyone to be exactly what you want then do something about it.
 
Robert Hastings is a frequent poster on this forum and a very good researcher. Why in the hell would you call him out in such a blatant style.

I would rather see you insult Hastings when he was there to defend himself.

First, as Hastings is here, then he is free to defend himself. I have never met or even talked to the man - I just don't like his style. C'est la vie. I'm sure he doesn't like mine.

Second, I wasn't insulting Hastings in that last post, if that's what you're referring to. I was referencing others with whom I've had prolonged tete-a-tetes in the past.

---------- Post added at 01:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 AM ----------

Paul everyone in the world is not going to be EXACTLY the way you want them to be. Its not a perfect world and if you want everyone to be exactly what you want then do something about it.

Well, I've often thought about getting the Zeta Reticulans to give me some sort of mind control device that I could use to accomplish just that very goal, but at the end of the day I prefer to live in a world of free-thinking idiots than one where everyone conforms to my admittedly more enlightened point of view. ;)
 
First, as Hastings is here, then he is free to defend himself. I have never met or even talked to the man - I just don't like his style. C'est la vie. I'm sure he doesn't like mine.

Second, I wasn't insulting Hastings in that last post, if that's what you're referring to. I was referencing others with whom I've had prolonged tete-a-tetes in the past.

You don't like anyone at all. That is really your problem and not anyone elses. Nobody is going to go out of their way to please you.

---------- Post added at 08:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 PM ----------

Everyone scroll up and read what Robert Hastings just posted.

I am sure James Carlson is scrambling at the bit trying to thumb together a half way decent rebut, but James is falling way behind in the game and better play catch up.
 
Hi Paul,

As you know, I don't think banning is a good idea except in the most egregious cases. While we have disagreed on several things here in these forums, what Carlson posted was undeserved (and I think mostly just misdirected) and I think most people will see that. I don't worry about the things people post here about me or my arguments unless they can back up their claims.

I think our views are just ever so slightly different about the whole topic of the paranormal. And I always like to read your posts.

My own plan is to get together my article on the Kelly Johnson case and then sort of taper off my own involvement in this forum. The recent spate of threads actually seriously considering a Moon Landing Hoax, etc. (along with a thread that exposed some horrendous taste in music among some posters! :)) sort of disillusioned me about the whole "community" here.

So anyway, I think I sort of know where you are coming from.

Lance

Lance,

I think Carlson is so far beyond egregious that it's... well, whatever lies beyond egregious. It's a breakdown, being played out on the Internet... sort of like Kal Korff's in recent years. It's not funny, and I feel sorry for Carlson. At the same time, as with Korff, I have no intention of letting him pop by a place I've helped build and attack me.

I'm sure if you and I got together, we would have a nice rational conversation, and agree to disagree where necessary.

And yes, when people start talking about moon landing hoaxes, I definitely tune out and listen to some of that great music! :D
 
@James:

I'm a little disappointed that you didn't acknowledge my sincere message to you and instead responded to Paul in the way you did. By doing so you play right into the hands of your detractors (and I am not talking about Paul here), and fuel their ability to rhetorically toss aside your arguments.

You have good evidence that demolishes much of what Hastings claims. A more dispassionate presentation of it would serve you better. I should say no more about it since you seem of another opinion.

@Dnoid:

No idea what you are talking about--impenetrable. Above Carlson shows clear testimony that directly contradicts Hastings. You ignore it. That is not the same as winning except in the ridiculous realm of paranormal dogma.

Lance

Lance, I do appreciate it, sincerely -- but I happened to read his commentary first. I understand exactly what you say and you make a good point. But you aren't taking the very real slanders and character assassinations that I've been subjected to for years by these guys into account. They have still refused to comment on COL (Ret.) Walt Figel, Jr.'s insistence that he went to both Hastings and Salas and told them they got the story all wrong, and tried to correct their errors. They ignored him and published what they absolutely knew was a lie. And instead of dealing with that embarrassing and damaging account, they instead dismissed it entirely, asserting that I was mentally disturbed and that my family was desperately worried I was having a breakdown! There is NOTHING these guys have done that can be dismissed as desiring an honest debate. They have attempted on numerous occassions to destroy the very decent reputations of good Americans who served their country with great pride and distinction, needlessly, even after such men have already died and can no longer defend themselves. My Dad is very old, and he has heart problems -- what lies do you think they'll tell about him after he passes away? They deserve every ounce of scorn I can possibly lay on them -- and when Paul Kimball comes out and says that I'm "mean spirited" when the people he's defending have done some of the most nauseating things imagineable in their pursuit, not of the truth, but in their pursuit of what I know for a fact is an absolute fiction without one iota of evidence to support it, my only response is the one I gave -- and if I passed you by in my anger and my disgust, I apologize -- it wasn't my intention to alienate you or make you feel that I haven't taken note of your support -- I have. But I've had to put up with this incredible crap for years, and I don't have a whole lot of patience left for people who's only interest in this thing is their very easily measured paycheck -- not when I've got old friends whom I haven't seen in awhile asking my parents if I'm suicidal because these offensive, hateful people feel like slander is the only way they can answer the very real evidence I've presented. I do appreciate your defense, and I understand your point very well -- but I have no intention of being patient with people who don't deserve even the smallest measure of respect, let alone an even-handed approach.

TKS ... James
 
Hi Paul,

I put that link up above in message #339.

Thanks - I missed it. I like a lot of Printy's work, and disagree with him about a lot of it too. But he seems like an honest guy.

As for music, as its my 25th high school reunion this weekend, I leave you with the following gem:

[video=dailymotion;x1q57x]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1q57x_huey-lewis-heart-and-soul_music[/video]

Apropos of nothing... which makes it the perfect fit for ufology!
 
It can be frustrating. Paul and I, for instance, have an argument about one of the sequences in that same film. I think I have shown clearly that the account as depicted is incorrect. For me it is black and white. Paul, for whatever reason, won't argue the facts with me (it's really the only time I have really been disappointed and confused about Paul). And it's damn frustrating.

Lance,

I did discuss it, to a point that I thought was productive. I've seen Brad's work. I based the segment on it, and I support it still, because I think it is accurate. But it's Brad's work, not mine. No filmmaker does all of his own research, or calculations, or whatever. They make choices. I chose Brad. I agree with it, but it's his work. Your argument is with him, not me, and I'm not interested in acting as some sort of go-between.

Further, I made the point repeatedly that even if you tossed out Brad's calculations, you still have a great case, which remains unexplained. Imagine my frustration when you continued to harp on those calculations, and not actually address the substance of the case. ;)

Paul

---------- Post added at 02:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:37 AM ----------

Take a look at what Tim Printy kindly did for you and realize that this is the way to win here: clear facts--carefully presented.

I made these same points to Carlson when he contacted me many months ago, and gave him much the same advice. He didn't listen to me then (obviously), and I doubt that no matter what he says, he's not going to listen to you now. It's a personal vendetta for him, and he is simply incapable of presenting himself in a reasonable manner, or acting objectively. Perhaps that's understandable, but it's not excusable.
 
James Carlson can foam at the mouth all he wishes. I have Col. Figel on tape (James does not) and Figel contradicts virtually everything James claims. I am working on an article, to be posted at UFO Chronicles, which will have links to the actual audiotaped conversations I had with Figel. Bob Salas has Figel on tape too and that tape will be accessible in the article as well. Among other things, Figel agrees with Salas that James is "off-the-wall."

I won't be responding further to James or anyone else on this thread until my article is finished. In the interim, here is my previous response to one of his rants. Because of the length limitation on posts, I have had to truncate the article with BREAKS. The full article is at:

http://www.theufochronicles.com/2008/12/did-ufos-cause-shutdown-of-icbms-at.html


And then he quotes again that ridiculous transcript that Figel himself has disposed of. I appreciate it, Robert, that once again you talk more about me than the fact that Figel very publically dismissed your claims over four months ago.

Yeah, people keep talking about that interview 2 years ago, but you keep missing all the bits where Col. Figel talks about the absence of a UFO investigation, his certainty that UFOs were not involved, and the very extensive investigation that only mentioned UFO once because of the rumors started by a NICAP investigator who couldn't even get the date right. The whole world missed the comments posted earlier that discuss Hastings' complete misinterpretation of that interview above -- the one that shows how incompetent Hastings actually is when it comes to reaching a conclusion based on what other people have said. The only two people who were at Echo Flight on March 16, 1967 are adamant that no UFOs were anywhere around. There was no UFO investigation, even though it was required by the USAF to investigate such things whenever they're reported. FTD, who would have been in charge of the investigation if UFOs were involved, weren't even notified as INFO only that Echo Flight went down, and everything about Echo Flight was only classified SECRET, which would have been illegal, forcing the DoD to bring charges against the commanding officer for not properly classifying TOP SECRET a foreign attack on a nuclear missile command in the sovereign territory of the U.S. There is nothing about this whole case that says "UFO" except Salas' and Hastings' very real and very dishonest assertions made in order to earn a buck. They didn't even FLASH the initial report to Wright-Patterson -- how can that possibly be related to a UFO? The biggest problem with the case made by Hastings and Salas is that they've ignored entirely most of the evidence. There are 80-pages of FOIA documents they've refused to discuss because they don't talk about UFOs. It seems a lot of people want to ignore it. And the biggest flaw in every witness that Hastings has EVER presented regarding Echo Flight, is that NONE of them can name a single witness to the events -- not even themsleves! They all talk about something they heard at the barracks, or something they overheard on a radio in the next room, or something that was discussed near enough for them to hear, but they can't name who said what where, the people themselves have never come forward, and most of the time, they don't even know the date or location in reference to the event itself! It's the most pathetic collection of "almost saw something" testimony ever gathered in relation to a single incident. Nobody can even name a person who actually SAW a UFO. Do you guys seriously consider this trustworthy testimony? Hastings has one witness who claims that all of the VRSA indications were broken -- that there were no results at the LFs, and that they couldn't determine what was wrong, while other witnesses are very positive that when the missile status was checked VRSA 9 errors were noted. That's a conflict that just can't be reconciled. One of those two witnesses HAS to be wrong, and yet, Hastings claims that they are BOTH right. That's just impossible. Those are two very definite accounts, and each one suggests something incredibly important to the interpretation of this entire incident, and Hastings claims that they are both right. When two people check VRSA and one says there's a channel 9 error and the other says none of the VRSA was working properly, how exactly can they both be right? Hastings analysis of this incident is completely incompetent. And he dismisses this with an insistence that I'm "highly disturbed" and deserve your pity. It would be nice if just once someone who supported Hastings' and Salas' version of these events was able to discuss the actual evidence they've presented -- but I don't think that will ever happen.

Why hasn't Hastings said anything about Figel's most recent testimony asserting that nothing happended at Oscar Flight, that he doesn't believe in UFOs, that he told all of this to Hastings who ignored him, and that his book is full of errors? Why is the only testimony of Figel's that he's willing to discuss recorded by him in 2008? Why hasn't Hastings ever told anybody that the first person to mention a UFO in the transripts above was 6-10 feet underground at the time he was saying "I think I see a UFO right now"? How come the security rep with the 2-way radio on which he had already established comms with Figel and my father and who was on the surface didn't mention the UFO first, even though their primary mission was to look after the security of the maintenance personnel, who were busy for a good half hour just opening the access hatch so they could get underground and check the status of the missile? Why didn't the security personnel see anything when the missiles first went offline at 0845, since they were awake, while the maintenance personnel were still asleep? Security never reported seeing a UFO -- only the maintenance guy 6-10 feet underground at the time, saying "I can see one now". There's nothing about Figel's testimony that says there was a real UFO, and Figel agrees with that, insisting that Hastings "got it all wrong". But Hastings doesn't want to discuss that -- he just wants to discuss my supposed mental illness and not the evidence. It's no wonder he had to pay to publish his own book -- it's a pathetic indictment of his own inability to analyze a relatively simple case. 30-years of "study" apparently did nothing to help him with that. But he learned admirably well how to slander another man, to destroy a good man's reputation and call him a liar simply because he refuses to say "yes, there was UFO that took out Echo Flight the morning of March 16, 1967 when I was the commander there." He learned how to slant another man's testimony to make it look like a foolish joke from a guy who was asleep when anything important actually happened was really a valid report of a UFO that he could see clearly from a little room about 8 feet underground. Everything about this case screams bullshit, but Hastings wouldn't notice it or tell you if he did, because he's trying to sell it to the world. And he and Salas are doing so on the ruined reputations of better men than themselves, so I shouldn't be so surprised that their very first strategic move to counter all the problems in their case that I've highlighted is not to discuss their evidence or the evidence I've produced, but to attack me and my reputation -- Hell, it's a family affair now. You're a pathetic joke, Robert, and I'm slowly getting people to see that. Figel announced that you were a fraud over four months ago -- why are still dredging up your pathetic interview with him in 2008?
 
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