Gaza Israel bombings

[flipper]

Ufocurious: the story you tell is entirely reminiscent of the stories my partner tells me about what her life was like growing up in apartheid era South Africa as a non-white: double standards everywhere designed to remind you of your position in society, to break your spirit and keep you down.

Anyone who wants to better understand the dehumanizing process designed to keep Palestinians in vulnerable, amoral positions should read this difficult book:

Palestine (comics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have heard one black South African say that the conditions in the Palestinian concentration camps are worse those during apartheid in South Africa.

 

[Ufocurious]

Guys
I am sorry, but I am a cynical person when it comes to international affairs.
When I said "It is all about power", I was not referring to Israel, but to the west as a whole. I think the west needed a judeo-christian enclave in the middle-east and Israel was a good idea for them at the time. It only backfired in a way they did not anticipated.

 

[flipper]

Not that I support what's happening with this conflict, but I fing it curious when people make this about morals. I mean, the "west" was built on slavery and genocide. The only reason Europe or NA isn't seeign the same things happening, is because they already did, and the victors are in power now because there was no one left to fight back in these regions. What's worse, is that this is nothing but mental masturbation. There's only 2 solutions here.

One: Genocide/Displacement of the Palestines from the region entirely.

Two: Israelis just pack up and leave.

Since number 2 ain't happening, we're left with option one. You might think that peace is possible, but it isn't. Israel will continue to instigate violence against them so they then can go in and "clean house" with the full support of the west. They will continue to do this until the Palestinians are gone from the region entirely, one way or another. I simply wish people would focus on the reality of the situation, instead of their political/moral views which mean less than dogshit to the people there.

EDIT: There's also the possibility that the people will overthrow the Israeli government and let the Palestinians be at peace. Though I find that a rather slim possibility.

Remember there is always more that three solutions to every problem. Here is a man trying to change the situation non violently:

 

[Bananas]

Is this guy really this delusional? Another human rights group that think facebook likes make them succesfull. Let's say Israel stops this for a few years, like they've done in the past, and then picks up again, what then? All I see is some dude talking about the problems, as usual, without any actual long-term solutions. I also love how he mentions certain groups of people that support peace in the regian, yet if you go to a Palestinian area and declare yourself gay you'll probably end up dead.

But hey, Facebook likes will change the world. Keep believing!

EDIT: The root problem here that affects the entire Middle East, is that it's in the interest of the west to keep the region unstable to avoid the formation of a unified middle east. It would become an economical superpower over night due to it's oil wells that could blackmail China and the US because the economy of both places rely on oil completely. We would have another world war looming over our heads again and there is no way the current powers will let that happen. The region was chopped up after the Ottomans were gone by design to prevent the formation of a unified Arab world.

Does anyone address this? Of course not, because nobody seems to understand that the events of the past 70 years in there have been by design. People just focus on the individual events and ignore the bigger picture.

 

[Tyger]

There is another solution. In an interview Charlie Rose did the other night with one of the negotiators in the Middle East - I think that's who he was - there were moments of some raw honesty. He said that the real solution was to drive the situation into such impossibility and desperation - which it can be argued it is already at - which is what Hamas' aim is in all this is because nothing else works - that the UN will be forced to intervene. The 'answer' is not an Israel absorbing the Palestinians - the 'answer' is in the creation of a new secular state made up of Jews and Palestinians and whatever.

The UN created this mess - the UN needs to correct it. They won't correct it until the situation is dire and there is a world outcry. It was intimated that what is driving Hamas is this level of desperation to effect change. I will try to link to that interview. [Edit: Following this post I have a link to the interview I think I am referencing.]

There have been significant Jewish intellectuals who have been against the formation of the Jewish state of Israel - Noam Chomsky. for one. He has long argued that no state can be a democracy that has a state religion. Israel as a democracy has been a fiction. Israel is just the prototype for the Islamic state model. Should the UN be in the business of creating religious states?

Discussion about the escalating Israeli-Hamas conflict with Martin Indyk, Vice President and Director of the Foreign Policy Program at the Brookings Institute. [After 8:00 gets to the nub.]
LINK: Charlie Rose | charlierose.com

 

[Bananas]

Tell me, what will the UN *actually* do? Invade Israel and remove their government? And what then? Stay there forever? The moment they leave, the shit is on again. The instigation will never end as long as they inhabit the same region. It would erupt into a civil war immediately, exactly what happened in Iraq. You cannot force ethnic groups that despise eachother to live in the same place. They will fight it out till borders are established and it's decided who lives where, or the other side is completely wiped out. History has show this again and again.

All you have to do is look at Bosnia, and how well the UN handled that. The country is falling apart again btw.

 

[Tyger]

TEXT: "Published on Mar 8, 2014

The talk by Eran Efrati was filmed in Denver, Colorado on March 3, 2014 as part of The Soldier and the Refusenik U.S. tour with Maya Wind. Eran talk about his experiences in the IDF and then more broadly discusses Israel, its relationship to the U.S. and the global expansion of militarism.

Eran Efrati, 28, was born and raised in Jerusalem. After graduating high school he enlisted in the IDF, where he served as a combat soldier and company sergeant in Battalion 50 of the Nachal Division. He spent most of his service in Hebron and throughout the West Bank.

In 2009, he was discharged and joined Breaking the Silence, an organization of veteran Israeli soldiers working to raise awareness about the daily reality in the Occupied Territories. He worked as the chief investigator of the organization, collecting testimonies from IDF soldiers about their activities. He also guided political tours and to the West Bank and worked to educate Israeli youth about the reality of being a soldier in an occupying army. His collected testimonies appear in the booklet "Operation Cast Lead" and their most recent release "Our Harsh Logic".

Since leaving Breaking the Silence, his investigative reports appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post and The Guardian. Today he is active with the Israeli groups Anarchists Against the Wall and Boycott from Within."

 

[Bananas]

Dude, I'm not going to sit through 40 minutes of a sob story. Point me to the actual solution.

 

[Tyger]

Dude, I'm not going to sit through 40 minutes of a sob story. Point me to the actual solution.

Far from a 'sob story'. You can decline to listen to something but don't characterize something you have not actually listened to. Just saying. If you listened you would see where the originating forces reside intent on keeping this conflict going.

 

[Bananas]

So there isn't one, I take it. Just a guy telling his version of the facts.

EDIT: Apologies if I sound grumpy, had a rough night. I also don't mean to sound rude or anything, it's just that you can discuss what's happening there to no end, and point fingers at this and that group but it changes nothing. The actual people there need solutions, not stories.

 

[Tyger]

So there isn't one, I take it. Just a guy telling his version of the facts.

EDIT: Apologies if I sound grumpy, had a rough night. I also don't mean to sound rude or anything, it's just that you can discuss what's happening there to no end, and point fingers at this and that group but it changes nothing. The actual people there need solutions, not stories.

This is one of those 'actual people'. It's his first hand account of what he did as an Israeli soldier - plus at the end an interesting experience with the NYPD.

Understanding what is happening through eye-witness accounts - understanding from where this 'will to war' is happening - enlightens as to where the solution has to come from. The former ambassador and former negotiator is the first person I have heard indicating that the current situation is driven by a profound desperation so deep in people that they feel that they have no other recourse.

Many years ago a man being interviewed as Sarajevo disintegrated into chaos looked into the camera and said: "You who watch this think it's something 'over there' nothing to do with you - but I say we are you. What you see happening here will be you one day. It's coming." Was that just bitterness? Listen to this former Israeli soldier and what he claims is happening with the US police force in conjunction with the Israeli army. He makes a similar warning. Something to think about. Don't read - don't listen - or walk away - it's your choice.

 

[Bananas]

I have no idea who you're replying to, but it seems you're replying to some imaginary person who made arguments against your posts.

Literally nothing you said makes any sense if you look at my posts in this thread.

 

[stonehart]

 

[kanakaris]

There is another solution : America stop being so afraid from Israel.There is no other way i can explain America's position over the years

 

[flipper]

At this very moment i hear on the news that Israel bombed a school with refugees . Shame on you .

After reading all the responses to the situations the Palestinians face, including my own, this is the best one. It reflects the total disgust at what is happening. Israel should be a pariah state, only then will it change its behavior.

 

[DissectionStalker]

There is another solution : America stop being so afraid from Israel.There is no other way i can explain America's position over the years

Think of this problem from Vallee's POV regarding the UFO "control systems". We are merged in our power structures with 'key' UFO control systems able to act on the sole behalf of Israel. This Israeli UFO control system works regardless of whether or not the American people or the U.N. agree with any of it. Even our laws are violated at the highest levels of National Security. For example, somehow the Israeli's smuggled out our own nuclear weapons grade plutonium to build many Hydrogen Bombs they have under their control. Who is running who???

It is obvious they also plan to perpetually violate the U.N. resolution to stop Jewish settlements in disputed territory, since the 1960's, and this will never stop. And, the 'key' control systems "implanted here" give Israel billions of dollars every year despite the removal of innocent Palestinians from their privately owned lands in these disputed territories. Recall what happened to the Indians in the USA... Reservations.

Israel is a kind of UFO Control System that Vallee has some understanding about. The Aliens "have landed" at the White House and the Congress, though these are not the ET kind, hopefully, but they are a kind of "UFO" control system nonetheless. Israel should meet the highest standards of Human rights, based on their own Jewish history of extermination and banishment, but their UFO control system does not seem worthy or capable of such founding principles in critical national policies it pursues on behalf of its people.

Is there a Master Race based on Jewish heritage now created as the nation of Israel? Is it wise for Humanity to organize itself in such ways anymore??? I think Human Rights have to be respected above the Nation State, otherwise we will never have peace and the pursuit of happiness. I have no idea what is really happening in Israel, because I only know what I can read or hear filtered through control systems. Hopefully, the Internet can cut through some of the propaganda from all sides, so we can get beyond the echo chambers.

 

[manxman]

After reading all the responses to the situations the Palestinians face, including my own, this is the best one. It reflects the total disgust at what is happening. Israel should be a pariah state, only then will it change its behavior.

Israel was born a state of pariahs, international refugees from a war torn world, not just despised by half the world but hated with a vengeance by some, hated to the point of mass murder of millions, simply because they had jewish or roma blood in their veins.
I personally do not understand how you can 'hate' on people like that, but those centuries of hate towards a displaced jewish race/people, has had a dramatic effect on them as a people, the jewish 'always the victim' mentality, has been a breeding ground for zionist fanaticism, the worlds darkest most deviant fanaticism you will ever see, there is no evil committed around the world that mossad or the IDF cannot match or better.

Just be thankful you live far enough away from the 'state' of Israel to be out of range of their nuclear weapons, because one day they will use them.


Israel does'nt care what we think, they dont care what many Israeli's think, or what millions of jews around the world think about their actions.

Atrocities committed by the state of Israel are quickly forgotten, take the aid flotilla murders, the outrage was just waved away.

How many more aid convoys have their been since, that's all Israel cares about, ship aid to gaza and we will put you in plastic hand restraints, place you face down on the deck, and pump several bullets into the back of your head, then we will simply ignore your governments strongly worded letter.


Stand infront of our tanks or bulldozers with your UN bib on, and we will just run you over, then we will simply ignore your governments strongly worded letter.

You want to film our war crimes for your news channels, then the cameraman catches a stray bullet, and we will simply ignore your governments strongly worded letter.

Simply put.
The State of Israel cannot guarantee your continuing good health if you do or say anything as to undermine the State of Israel.

 

[Burnt State]

/\ Manxman's analysis is pretty definitive. Schools and medical facilities being bombed now - including designated U.N. shelters - really? The strongly worded letters from the nations of the world mean nothing, just like all the strongly worded blah blah blah from the U.N.. Palestine will be ground down into bits pieces until civilians and resistance fighters are bombed out of existence in equal measure. We will continue to watch the tragedy, inactive, from the sidelines. I would be surprised if Palestine as a state is still in existence by the time I retire.

 

[DaveM]

Americans need to remember that the people they elected to represent them walk lock step in supporting Israel. Those billions in aid aren't going for irrigation projects. Virtually every penny is going for 'defense.' When you blame Obama, just remember that you voted him in and he is doing your bidding now.

 

[Tyger]

What is also getting 'jammed' in the news reporting is that there are considerable demonstrations in Israel against this war happening right now - yet what got reported yesterday was that the Israelis in an overwhelming majority support the war. Not the case - or I don't believe that spin. Israel as a country has a very changed demographic from the 1950's and 1960's. There are a lot of non-Jews and a generation of Israelis who do not think like their great-grandparents. Were Israel a truly democratic country I question whether we would see the religiously driven policies we see.

Israel was allowed to happen because of European guilt over the fact that western nations refused Jewish refugees from the Nazis. Giving the Jews a 'homeland' - at the expense of the Palestinians - was a cheap, illegal and racist act. It was a dirty quick-fix to assuage guilt over the view that there is 'a Jewish problem'. The Palestinians have had to pay the price for Western guilt for their complicity in thinking that there is a 'Jewish problem' for the past 60+ years.