They don't want us to know

[trainedobserver]

... If you don't believe in a spiritual world, then you say "God is an imaginary being". But that is where we part company. God is imaginary for you, but you can't state he is imaginary for others. To do so you claim to know that I don't know about a spiritual world. ...

"God" as I was raised to think of "him" (a multiple personality but a him nonetheless), as the culture I was immersed in defined him, is without any doubt in my mind a fictional character and the product of the human imagination. That God being Yahweh (or Jehovah), his son Jesus, and the mysterious Holy Ghost. I used to believe with complete conviction that I knew who "God" was, what he wanted of me, and what I needed to do to appease him.

Each person assigns a personal meaning to the word "God." It is inescapable due to the nature of the concept. The only unity will be in the parroting of scripture, the stand-in god for the invisible fellow who can't speak for himself. So for a person to use the word in a sentence without first defining it leads to confusion and misunderstanding. When you say "God" you may mean some vague thing without a real name or personality, but the "God" I thought I knew had protocols he expected to be followed one of which you had to get the name, the identity of God right. True to form disputes over the proper "name" and its use persist to this day.

For me, God has proven to be a nebulous human concept into which we pitch our notions of perfection, meaning, and hope. We then lean into the "puree" button until the motor on our metaphysical blender smokes. A burnt offering to the collective unconscious as it were. Grab the horns of the altar and hold on as you may, nothing but smoke rises from it.

 

[Ezechiel]

For me, God has proven to be a nebulous human concept into which we pitch our notions of perfection, meaning, and hope. We then lean into the "puree" button until the motor on our metaphysical blender smokes. A burnt offering to the collective unconscious as it were. Grab the horns of the altar and hold on as you may, nothing but smoke rises from it.

Poetic genius

... brings tears to my ignostic eyes

 

[trainedobserver]

Poetic genius

... brings tears to my ignostic eyes

Thank you. Praise Shockley! Without whom, none of this would be possible.

 

[mike]

... If you don't believe in a spiritual world, then you say "God is an imaginary being". But that is where we part company. God is imaginary for you, but you can't state he is imaginary for others. To do so you claim to know that I don't know about a spiritual world. ...​

And i could swap the label god with spiderman, and it would still be a nonsensical claim

... If you don't believe in a Marvel comics world, then you say "Spiderman is an imaginary being". But that is where we part company. Spiderman is imaginary for you, but you can't state he is imaginary for others. To do so you claim to know that I don't know about a Marvel Comics world. ...​

 

[Randall]

Have we been sidetracked? How might we relate all this biblical blather to the topic of "They Don't Want Us To Know"? Or would that be interrupting the antireligious rant we've got going here?

 

[Ezechiel]

Have we been sidetracked? How might we relate all this biblical blather to the topic of "They Don't Want Us To Know"? Or would that be interrupting the antireligious rant we've got going here?

I see a direct inverted correlation between belief in god and belief in extra-terrestrial intelligences.

Keeping the focus of a population on an almighty god maybe gives our civilization a bit of breathing room to develop the technologies required to address the possibility of an alien presence ?

Mighty bable costs less than mighty technologies ?

 

[Goggs Mackay]

People! it's ok to believe in god but don't confuse that with knowing god exists.

 

[mike]

Have we been sidetracked? How might we relate all this biblical blather to the topic of "They Don't Want Us To Know"? Or would that be interrupting the antireligious rant we've got going here?

I think your missing the salient point here.
This is not about being antireligious, its about intellectual integrity.

Its one thing to speculate, its another to claim as true a thing that is clearly absurd.

It would be no different if the Meieritte crowd were here insisting their brand of BS was real.

Goggs makes the same point.

Its one thing to suspect god is real, its another to claim it as absolute fact with no proof of claim whatsoever.

At its heart this has nothing to do with religion, its about standards of proof, speculation vs claims of irrefutable fact.

Its fine to speculate on what a thing might be, thats what we do here.
But its another again, to insist on what it is as concrete cold fact, once you do that you need to back that claim with proof

 

[exo_doc]

I greatly dislike religious discussions. They are very close to pointless, and usually do more harm than good.
Usually the only time I do discuss religion is when someone is obnoxiously trying to force it down my throat, and it has always been evangilizing Christians.
Don't get me wrong, I will defend your choice of religion as long as you do not attempt to try to force me to live by that religion.
This is called the "Platinum Rule" ; Remember that your rights end where mine begin.

I have my personal views on religions, but the followers of some of those religions are what I struggle to keep my mouth shut with the most.
I find it very difficult to trust the mental abilities of such people. In order to beleive in some religions, you have to have mental gymnastics like a city full of circus performers to deal with all those inconsistencies, illogical and absurd past events, and laws that only create a whole spectrum of pathological psychosis. Yet this stuff is swallowed hook, line , and sinker....usually without question. I beleive this is called faith, because if the followers actually had evidence, then there would be no discussions, or arguments, or religious wars because you would have knowledge, not faith.

To sum up, the main reason I don't discuss religion that much can be stated simply: If religious people could be reasoned with, ...there would be no religion.
.
.
.

 

[trainedobserver]

What they don't want us to know is that no one knows. We as a species exist on a tiny island of space and time in a seemingly infinite universe, with an inexhaustible supply of ignorance.

They don't want us to know there are no real answers to the big questions except what we as a civilization define for ourselves.

They mask the great uncertainty with stories meant to calm the child in every heart. Stories of security, of certainty, of undeniable justice, unmerited favor, and unconditional love.

If they spoke the truth. "We don't know and we have evidence to suggest no has ever known nor ever will." then false order would collapse into natural rhythm and those now powerful would become powerless.

They don't want us to know, so they construct "stories" from which the myth of life is woven and we believe them because there is little else and because after all, we are them.

We return the control of your experience back to you, until the next time on ... the Outer Limits. Or something like that. I'm pretty sure of it.

 

[Ezechiel]

What they don't want us to know is that no one knows. We as a species exist on a tiny island of space and time in a seemingly infinite universe, with an inexhaustible supply of ignorance.

They don't want us to know there are no real answers to the big questions except what we as a civilization define for ourselves.

They mask the great uncertainty with stories meant to calm the child in every heart. Stories of security, of certainty, of undeniable justice, unmerited favor, and unconditional love.

If they spoke the truth. "We don't know and we have evidence to suggest no has ever known nor ever will." then false order would collapse into natural rhythm and those now powerful would become powerless. They don't want us to know, so they construct "stories" from which the myth of life is woven and we believe them because there is little else and because after all, we are them.

We return the control of your experience back to you, until the next time on ... the Outer Limits. Or something like that. I'm pretty sure of it.

Trained, this thread was custom built for you

Your responses are spot on and brilliant !

 

[trainedobserver]

...
Who do you think the "who" is?
...
The conspiracy people will likely vote that it is the evil government standing in the way. The extraterrestrial crowd will likely say that it is the uber intelligent aliens keeping us in the dark. Do you think it is both?
...
I have some deeper opinions but I want to hear what you think about advancement in a seemingly dead end subject.

To return the thread to the question of the "Who" it is that "doesn't want us to know" the truth about UFOs :

I think the phenomenon itself and whatever and whoever is behind it, is indifferent and our knowledge or ignorance of it, its origins, and motivations are inconsequential to it.

I think there are several highly sophisticated (and some not so sophisticated) groups of people who use the "beliefs" about the phenomenon to further their own agendas that in all likelihood have little or nothing to do with the actual phenomenon itself.

The only way to advance is to advance in our thinking about it through the elimination of assumptions and pet ideas.

 

[SRL+]

The only way to advance is to advance in our thinking about consciousness, matter, time and space.

 

[trainedobserver]

The only way to advance is to advance in our thinking about consciousness, matter, time and space.

Yes, we might learn for example that our perception of matter, time, and space are dictated by the state of our mercurial consciousness. Indeed, arriving at the answer to the question "What are UFOs and where do they come from?" will probably greatly depend on our understanding of the conscious mind. We should be as cautious about assumptions made along that path as we should be about those we are prone to make along the "nuts and bolts" trail.

 

[Randall]

To return the thread to the question of the "Who" it is that "doesn't want us to know" the truth about UFOs : I think the phenomenon itself and whatever and whoever is behind it, is indifferent and our knowledge or ignorance of it, its origins, and motivations are inconsequential to it. I think there are several highly sophisticated (and some not so sophisticated) groups of people who use the "beliefs" about the phenomenon to further their own agendas that in all likelihood have little or nothing to do with the actual phenomenon itself. The only way to advance is to advance in our thinking about it through the elimination of assumptions and pet ideas.

I don't entirely agree that whatever and whoever is behind UFOs is, "indifferent and our knowledge or ignorance of it, its origins, and motivations are inconsequential to it." The reason is that they exhibit an elusiveness that indicates they want to avoid direct contact while at the same time letting us know they are there. If it were truly inconsequential or they were truly indifferent, then they would allow us to gather all the information we want rather than letting us know they are there and then taking off whenever we get too close. Their carefully balanced hide and seek, cat and mouse games indicate more than a casual interest. If they really wanted to, they have the performance ability to avoid all contact ... but they don't. They clearly want us to know they are there without us knowing too much. What I would agree with is that they seem indifferent regarding our reaction to their presence in the same way we maintain a scientific detachment when performing scientific studies..

 

[pixelsmith]

it took many years to train the sheep and to be able to partially manage the flocks. fully disclosing an ET presence would be very detrimental to the control "they" have achieved. who would want to sit like a good "sheeple" watching singing and dancing shows and faux-reality TV when we could be communicating or interacting in some way with a known alien presence?

 

[Stagger Lee]

People! it's ok to believe in god but don't confuse that with knowing god exists.

One thing I often scratch my head over... the many, many NDE's -now, I get the part about the experience "possibly" being some type of chemical reaction going on in the brain. The problem I have with that theory, talk to anyone who has had a near death experience and they will tell you they're convinced to the reality of it. My grandfather had the typical "walking through a dark tunnel" before meeting and shaking hands with who he believed to be the "son of God" -after hearing the part about "not your time" my granddad slammed back into his body- a force he, and many others, describe as running full force into a brick wall. NDE's- so many similiar details, yet no one experience is the same.

As far as the true topic of this thread- it is difficult to speculate, considering we know nothing of what knowledge some government agency may have. It's very possible "they" have their own agenda, and part of that agenda is studying our behaviour during "cat and mouse" games- an individuals reaction to an unknown object. It's very possible "they" just don't care as "they" sit by and watch us burn up our fossil fuels.

 

[exo_doc]

Latest article on Government spying on it's citizens......
Homeland Security 'fusion' centers spy on citizens, produce 'shoddy' work, report says - Open Channel
.
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..

 

[mike]

One thing I often scratch my head over... the many, many NDE's -now, I get the part about the experience "possibly" being some type of chemical reaction going on in the brain. The problem I have with that theory, talk to anyone who has had a near death experience and they will tell you they're convinced to the reality of it. My grandfather had the typical "walking through a dark tunnel" before meeting and shaking hands with who he believed to be the "son of God" -after hearing the part about "not your time" my granddad slammed back into his body- a force he, and many others, describe as running full force into a brick wall. NDE's- so many similiar details, yet no one experience is the same.

As far as the true topic of this thread- it is difficult to speculate, considering we know nothing of what knowledge some government agency may have. It's very possible "they" have their own agenda, and part of that agenda is studying our behaviour during "cat and mouse" games- an individuals reaction to an unknown object. It's very possible "they" just don't care as "they" sit by and watch us burn up our fossil fuels.

Brain chemistry can do some strange things.

Many years ago we had a guy in our apartment block who used to collect tribal masks from polynesia and papua new guinea.
No problem there, until he took some LSD one day........
He became absolutely convinced of the reality they had come to life and were hunting him, worse still he owned a shotgun.
When the cops arrived he welcomed the backup, telling them to get behind the couch with him and that he would cover them as they did so, by then he had blasted much of his collection to smithereens.

I had another guy visit my place once having taken LSD or something similar, he eventually had to retreat to a dark room where he became absolutely convinced he could see god.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

And on the sad side, I knew a guy that was taking LSD each weekend for some months. So were about 7 other guys, me included. But this one guy was fine one day - then he took one more tab and literally was sectioned (forcibly put into a psychiatric facility) overnight. He changed forever over the course of one night and the places and people he had loved his whole life, all now took on a sinister bent that he could not shake. Can you imagine having the normal trusting feeling you get with family and friends. and against your will, that trusting feeling is now under question for ever more?

No monsters, no freaky visuals but this is exactly what Acid is so dangerous. My friend might have had an underlying predisposition to schizophrenia or any other mental health issue, but the point is that no-one doubts it was LSD that actually finished off his sanity. I'm not saying that some people don't take it sporadically in life and manage to escape negative consequences but the reality is no-one can be sure it won't be them and the stuff certainly has the power and destructive capability. Ask Pink Floyd.